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Mashirosen
11-20-2003, 01:26 AM
Okay, those of you who were around for the TWC forums know the drill: keep all discussions about the superiority of subtitling to this thread only. Anyone who tries to start an argument by posting that subtitles suck in this thread will be banned, and so will anyone who tries to start an argument by posting that dubs suck in that thread.

So! What shows do you think are best subtitled? What are some of your favorite translations? Tawk amongst yourselves.

Exploding Ostrich
11-20-2003, 11:00 AM
Well, trying to watch Excel Saga dubbed takes out half of the jokes. (Namely all of the weird Japanese puns.) So watching Excel Saga subbed, with the VidNotes on, is a must.

GatoFiero
11-20-2003, 12:46 PM
Yes, i find that subs are best. You can't watch Excel Saga without the vidnotes unless you more or less live in Japan.

Pin
11-20-2003, 12:56 PM
I've seen probably 15 or so different seasons of Anime, all of which I watched Subbed. I seriously can't stand the sight of Anime with English voices...it...drives me crazy. I can't watch that. Plus I'd like to see it in its original form, not after America crapifies it.

Lucas
11-20-2003, 11:32 PM
subs force me to learn japanese so that i can watch what's happening and read at the same time. i find there are times when the sub coding is done much too fast and others are much too slow, but all in all, i appreciate the ones that include little notes about what certain thing MEAN. i believe one of the subs of samuri deeper kyo had explanations of all the little retarded antics, and how they related to japanese culture.

Nakor
11-21-2003, 04:28 AM
Subs are definitely tops in my list. Nearly every anime I have ever watched I prefer subbed. There's a few I would refuse to watch otherwise, among which lies Magic Knight Rayearth, my favourite anime. I just find that the original seiyuu fit the emotional bill of their anime characters more accurately. And besides that, they're almost all better singers than the English voices. (Have you ever heard the English opening song to the first season of Slayers? If not, you're lucky. Ugh.)

This is topped off by the fact that I enjoy learning and memorizing anime music, as well as studying the Japanese language. But that aside, I would still prefer subtitling. (I fear how Naruto might be subtitled... especially Sakura's voice, lol.)

Ayan
11-21-2003, 08:49 AM
Waah! they ruined my Shaman King! I love Subs because the voices are just...better! Excel's english voice is like nails on a chalkboard to me..I hated the menus on the dvds...That and Hyatt's voice was super weak... :eek:

MC43
11-21-2003, 04:32 PM
I have to agree with the subbing. The way the Japanese voice comes out just makes for a much better apeal to my ear than an American's. Don't get me wrong, some English dubbing is good. Case in point, Yu-Gi-Oh or Inuyasha, but there are others out there that I will only watch with subtitles. Namely Ranma 1/2.

However, you could just solve the problem altogeter and just read the Manga, but that's another thread in it's own.

Graf
11-21-2003, 05:09 PM
I prefer the original voice actors. They give the characters the emotions they are supposed to feel. Dubbing often changes this and screws up horribly in the casting of voice actors.*cough*OutlawStar*cough*. Then there's also the original Japanese music that often gets lost when ported to television. (Though this does not happen as often with companies that translate and import shows not for TV.) Bubblegum Crisis Tokyo 2040 is prime example of them translating songs. While watching the show dubbed(I bought Dubbed VHS because at the time, I didn't give a damn whether it was dubbed or subbed and subbed was cheaper. I now have the series on DVD so I can watch dubbed or subbed, not that I have played the dub, but that's besides the point.) I noticed they had translated the songs. I was distressed at this because the original song was sung by Akira Sudou, who, in my opinion, has an amazing voice. The translation didn't even get a decent replacement. Well really, I doubt they could have gotten one I'd be okay with, but I think they could have done better.

Ambassador
11-22-2003, 02:22 AM
Have you ever seen the dubbed version of Escaflowne? *shudder* I didn't make it past the first episode. Besides, I've noticed that Japanese generally sounds much more.... passionate. Each emotional response, be it fury, happiness, sadness, pain, or what have you, is amplified by the nature of the language. Still, in most cases, I'm willing to watch either subbed or dubbed, then make a judgement.

LilWhiteMage
11-22-2003, 03:16 AM
Don't get me wrong, some English dubbing is good. Case in point, Yu-Gi-Oh or Inuyasha, but there are others out there that I will only watch with subtitles. Namely Ranma 1/2.

Personally, I don't really like much of the dubbing for the InuYasha series.... Though I will say that Sesshoumaru's voice is sexy in BOTH versions ^-^ ~swoon~ Then again, most of the episodes I watch of InuYasha are only available with subs, since they haven't been translated to be mutilated into English yet.

If given the choice, I will almost always watch with subs. Mainly because I'm trying to learn Japanese on my own. Hearing the words over and over and seeing what is said on the bottom works almost as well as any of those little tape lessons things. o_o

Whitemage
11-22-2003, 03:24 AM
Dubs great.

So, LilWhiteMage..... A/L?

Neverwhere
11-22-2003, 03:53 AM
umm... isnt this the sub thread? so why are you talkin about dubs there whitemage?

LilWhiteMage
11-22-2003, 04:09 AM
I was pointing out a small point since it was raised in a previous post. Baka e.e; And besides, I'm sure that WhiteMage's post might have been a typo... after all, 'S' and 'D' are right there next to each other... I had to double check myself back in my post constantly. x.x

Oh... and WM.. 20, and check beneath my piccie.

Nakor
11-22-2003, 04:19 PM
I believe Neverwhere was talking about Whitemage (quote: "I like dubs"), not you, LilWhiteMage. Name's too similar. ;)

Anyway, Ranma is one of the few that I will watch in dubbed. Slayers is good in both, but subbed (MEGUMI!!!) is much better. There's only one character who needed a better seiyuu, that being Xellos (IMO).

Whitemage
11-22-2003, 06:02 PM
Bahh, if I wanted to read any series I'd just get the damn manga..

Oh, and LilWhiteMage, what's a sweet girl like you doing living in a place like Los Angelus? I see you as one of these southern gals living in the moutains who needs a good old fashioned cuddeling.. ^_^

Bob The Mercenary
11-22-2003, 06:40 PM
You would cringe at the sound of the Excel Saga dub. It redefines the word "pain". Subbed overtakes dubbed in almost every anime all the time, except for Noir. Noir dubbed lets me connect with the characters better, but sometimes reading subtitles gives you the same feeling, connected with the tone of voice. But, the voice actor has to be talented.

LilWhiteMage
11-22-2003, 09:52 PM
Actually WhiteMage, I am one of those cuddley little southern girls... don't live in the mountains though o.o They don't have much around here. The LA in my thingu is Louisiana.... I'm originally from Mississippi...

Oh, and Nakor, I did say that Neverwhere might have been talking about WhiteMage. Thank you .;

To make this a subbed post >_>;;;

I will usually listen to either or... dubbed or subbed. Some series I could really care less. Like Record of Lodoss War. Well, the original series that is. In the second, they changed some of the dubbed voices, so it doesn't sound right...That and the chibi voices sound so much cuuuuuuter in Japanese ^-^

GatoFiero
11-23-2003, 12:32 AM
you have a point, you can't do chibi in english.

Cid Highwind
11-23-2003, 10:47 PM
A sub is what I normally watch, it has the advantage of subconciously learning Japanese. Hai! I think Vash and Spike's original voices much better matched their own characters, and Ed didnt sound ear-grating.
Seriously, Adult Swim Ed was a joke.
Not to mention theres about three times as many Subbed Animes due to money and time, more fun for me.
Did I mention Ed?

Griever
11-25-2003, 08:01 AM
When I first started watching Kenshin, it was subbed. I loved it. The voices were passionate and flawless, the lip sync made sense, and I have no trouble reading subs as well as watching at the same time.
But then... Dear god, came the dubbed. All the emotion left, the voices were flat, the lip sync was messed up... I was disillusioned. I hanged on to it and watched it till near the last episode out of sheer loyalty for the lost subbed.

So, in short, subbed rules dubbed any day!

((I always thought Ed sounded funny in dubbed in Adult Swim... Not that I've heard the original voices :D )

Dante
11-25-2003, 08:55 AM
I watched Fushigi Yugi dubbed and subbed. Tamahome sounds a lot whinier in the dub. But don't worry, the dub was pretty good... for laughter purposes. Sometimes the voice actor just can't do it right (and the translated lines can end up pretty ridiculous too), and the result is hilarious.

Caska
11-28-2003, 04:16 PM
Love the subs ;D

I dunno, it just seems like the Japanese voice-actors take it more seriously. I don't mean to bash, just compare:

In most dubs, it's like they assign whoever happens to be within ten feet of the caster, and they just want to say their lines and be done with it. It takes away from the character development.

Subs though... after a while, it almost seems like they're speaking in English. Honestly, I forget that I'm reading the dialogue. Or maybe that's just me being weird. The voices always go perfectly with the characters, from looks to personality. They had to look hard for the perfect actors.

Some dubs are alright, though.. I watched DBZ and Sailor Moon dubbed, and never did like their subs. Also I think Cowboy Bebop was done well.

Kenryoku_Maxis
11-30-2003, 02:25 AM
I dunno, it just seems like the Japanese voice-actors take it more seriously. I don't mean to bash, just compare

Subs though... after a while, it almost seems like they're speaking in English. Honestly, I forget that I'm reading the dialogue. Or maybe that's just me being weird. The voices always go perfectly with the characters, from looks to personality. They had to look hard for the perfect actors.

That's good that it seems like that for you.

I watch subs for MANY reasons but mostly for the reasons most people have already named (haven't said anything in this thread because I'm kinda one of the major factors that created the thread on the old board). I don't really start getting the feeling they are speaking in English but reading the subtitles have gotten so second nature to me that I can read a sectence a second and place the emotion of the Japanese voice to the context of the english text quite easily.

That's basically the rundown on my argument to why Subs are good (and why the lazy excuse of not wanting to read or not able to see the show because of reading isn't valid in my opinion). But I also think the Japanese actors/actresses put alot more effort and well...acting ability into their work. But then, they are hand picked and filtered out of thousands of others to their job. And they have a network of veterans and famous stars which resembles even Hollywoods actors and actresses......if you wish I'll name a few. :D

In any event, I watch subs. Just sayin' so.

batgirl
12-09-2003, 01:08 AM
If I have the choice of watching dubs or subs (for instance, on dvds) I immediately go for subs first. To me, the original voices are the ones who were chosen to play the part because they fit the part. In some dubs, it seemed like the producers were like "ok, so who sounds like so-and-so and can semi-act?" You definitely don't get the same feel as with subs. However, certain dubs are very well done and are actually quite enjoyable (I can't think of any right now...come on it's 1am and I've had no sleep, gimme a day and I'll post some).

Ralvuimago
12-19-2003, 04:06 PM
Subs are more useful in shows like Big O where you need to know EXACTLY what someone said or the plot will throw you.

Kenryoku_Maxis
01-09-2004, 02:46 PM
Subs are more useful in shows like Big O where you need to know EXACTLY what someone said or the plot will throw you.

Sadly, as its been stated on the Dubs thread, Subtitles also are never 100% direct translated. However, I do believe they are much closer to the original and lend themselves to be able to be interpreted as correct or incorrect, whereas Dubs only give you the voice and english context so you'll never have any idea if they changed anything unless you watch the subtitle as well.

Utsusu
02-25-2004, 12:08 PM
DBZ is the best subbed compared to dubbed, because with dubbed you lose all the fantastic japanese exsplodie goodness and it then just sux.

Exoduselder
02-29-2004, 04:16 PM
/subtitles are not only nessacary but can be funny...

Joseph Pandora
04-22-2004, 10:30 PM
I used to rue subtitles on anything. The turning point was when I saw Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon with subtitles then shortly after saw it dubbed, given the choice I always choose subtitles to dubbed. Armitage III was a really bad movie made worse by the fact that the DVD had no options for subtitles.

Domon
05-03-2004, 10:46 AM
I love subs, but i hate subs on cowboy bebop cause its dubed on adult swim and thats where i watch it and if im watching the dvd i watch it with subs. but on EVERY thing else i like subs.

The Infallible
07-09-2004, 08:18 PM
crouching tiger hidden dragon. 'nuff said

sephiroth666
07-10-2004, 02:06 PM
i like subs. they're like my favorites.
eva watched rurouni kenshin subbed? its ok..
my favorite sub is naruto
then love hina
and ragnarok the anime

slightly aboveaverage man
07-11-2004, 09:01 AM
I love subs. My favorite is the Chepolte Steak & Cheese. Mmmm, spicy!

sephiroth666
07-21-2004, 02:44 AM
LOL average man...u are so funny.

ryuuseinosolitude
08-03-2004, 08:13 PM
Sub are better. With excel saga, in the dubbed version you still see the notes around (cause I watch it on the anime network) but I like hearing the orginal voices. If anyone has seen the 2nd yu yu hakusho movie (bonds of fire) the dubbed version STUNK! Kurama sounded to much like a guy, Megumi Ogata does a great kurama. Hiei's voice was slurred, unlike kuwabara's and his voice is supposed to be bad. Hiei's is supposed to be deep and sexy (if you ask me)

It may be annoying when the subtitles go by so fast, but it's worth earing the orginal voices.

chronotriggergod
08-10-2004, 09:06 PM
For sure, subs are the way to go. Look at Jap DBZ and English DBZ. There is absolutley no comparison. I have to wonder if the idiots at funimation even heard the original dialogue (oh yeah, they totally ruined the musical score too). The Japanese actors/actresses definately put more into their work than anybody else. Although some good dubs I think are
1. Tenchi series (as long as people continue to reprise their roles)
2. Trigun
3. Inu Yasha
4. Ninja Scroll (the movie)

Xellos
08-11-2004, 04:20 PM
Anyway, Ranma is one of the few that I will watch in dubbed. Slayers is good in both, but subbed (MEGUMI!!!) is much better. There's only one character who needed a better seiyuu, that being Xellos (IMO).

I agree. Xellos's voice is perfect in the English Dub. It just sounds weird in Japanese. Then there is the voice they used in a Slayers movie that had him in it. In the movie, the Dub voice sounded gay. So I can only listen to his voice in the English Dub in the series.

But, anyway. It depends. I just care about how the voices sound. Like Vash's and Wolfwood's voice I like better in English. However, Merriel's and Milly's voices sound better in Japanese.

Kenryoku_Maxis
08-11-2004, 06:57 PM
Megumi Hayashibara does the voice of Female Ranma in Ranma 1/2, the original version.

And I still will never understand how people can say they dislike the original voice or like the dub voice of Vash over the Japanese one....just in so many ways I can't understand it....

adamark
08-14-2004, 09:06 PM
I used to think Dubs were great. Much easier to watch and just listen. No reading involved. Now I understand that the translation is only as good as the amount of times the mouth moves. Lotta misunderstandings. The first subbed series I saw (Cowboy Bebop) was tough, but I am getting used to the Japanese voices. I have an ear for it now. So I like it a lot more. No misunderstandings. Go subs! :)

The Mirror Emperor
08-14-2004, 09:12 PM
Dubs and subs: The only language I understand in Japanese is some basic stuff you see in fanfics and 1-10, so I need them both. Well, maybe not dubs, but subs indeed. Dubs down the anime for children, while subs, though some words won't appear, let it go unedited. (I'm talking about DVDs and not so much the TV-aired animes)

Myst
08-17-2004, 03:58 PM
I know I'm not a good source on this, as I'm still kind of new to anime, but the subbed voice for kenshin just grates my ears. But at the same time, Vampire Hunter D was terrible dubbed, and lost so much meaning. I'm kinda case by case, but unless the voice causes my ear to bleed, I'll stick with subbed.

Gorefiend
10-04-2004, 08:22 PM
I VERY MUCH prefer subtitles. But for a diferent reason than all of you. HERE DUBS ARE IN SPANISH!!!!!
If you think for one second you've seen the worst of it with anime dubbed dirctly from Japanese to English, try from Japanese to English to Spanish. IT SUCKS!!!!! I would much rather the Japanese version of, say, Akira, than the dubbed to Spanish version. But, honestly, where I live, the English version is better than the Spanish version. Just in all honesty.

There is only ONE (one, and not one more. Im NOT saying dubs are in any way good, but, read on) advantage to the Spanish versions. The language, when done right (directly from Japanese to Spanish, as I think is the case for DBZ here) is nearly uncensored!!! No darns, or drats! If Goku said the Japanese equivalent of "damn" (is there one?), we hear the Japanese equivalent of "damn" in Spanish. Of course, this means DBZ here is a LITTLE more for adults (down here, bad words are in two categories, kinda like in the English. They tend to choose the first-tier (damn, crap) over the second-tier (f***, s***), but it's ok. Besides, now the only channels who show DBZ are the local ones, except for Cartoon Network on Saturdays at around like 12:30AM. Too late for some little kid to watch.

This, however, is a TINY retribution. I'd MUCH rather get a subtitled version of ANY movie (they do it to some movies down here too, you know...) or animation (english version of, say, Dexter's Lab with subtitles would have thrilled me when I was 8) than SPANISH!!!! anyways, given the circumstance, I COULD enjoy the english versions of some anime. But, honestly, I wish that the channels here got some subtitled. But, alas, the last channel ever to show a proper Japanese version of anime (Locomotion) has been dropped by my cable company, in exchange of a cooking channel. It sucks. Enjoy your subbed versions up there!!!

Edit: I accidentally posted dubbed instead of subbed in the last sencence, and lots of spelling.

Sesshoumaru
10-11-2004, 08:11 PM
Personally, I prefer subs, but you have to admit, some of the characters sound pretty good in the english dubs (like Inuyasha and Naraku both sound better in english imo).
Overall though, I like subs better.

Kenryoku_Maxis
10-21-2004, 10:17 AM
On the Spanish dubs thing, I have heard many good Spanish dubs. I don't know how it is now, but the Spanish dubs I saw in the mid to late 90s were pretty good. Kenshin, Sailor Moon, Ranma, Escaflowne. Not only did they get alot of shows and seasons of shows that America never got or before America did, but they made an active effort to try to getvoicesthat sounded like their Japanese counterparts! And unlike the American counterparts, I saw many Spanish dubs that kept the original Japanese concepts in tact. Sure, some American ideas come through sometimes, but mostof the time the people doing the Spanish dubs got their stuff independantly from Japan and translated/dubbed it before America ever did, therefore it was closer to the actual Japanese one (most of the time).

Spanish dubs arealso how my friend got into Anime, with shows like Saint Seiya and Captain Tsubasa back in the beginning of the 90s and late 80s when he watched them dubbed on Spanish stations. We still can't find Captain Tsubasa in America anywhere...but they've had it in Mexico for 15 years.

Polaris
10-22-2004, 11:37 AM
However it depends on your personal tastes, and it also depends on what anime is being subbed. Slayers for example, seems to fit just fine.

Akatsuki
11-01-2004, 08:41 AM
Subing is fine the only problem is when there are lots of different people subbing the same show then watching alot of different episodes subbed by different people (In my case Naruto, theres atleast 3 or 4 different people/groups who sub that) some of the details are altered or changed acording to the translator. Still, better than having poor dubbing

KaneInferno
11-08-2004, 12:53 PM
I prefer subs. Dubs would be better if they actually had different voices for people. ive seen a bajillion anime that have Krillin's voice for one of the characters, and several that use Piccolo's voice. If they would just get different voice actors for once, it wouln't be that bad!

Kenryoku_Maxis
11-08-2004, 08:21 PM
I prefer subs. Dubs would be better if they actually had different voices for people. ive seen a bajillion anime that have Krillin's voice for one of the characters, and several that use Piccolo's voice. If they would just get different voice actors for once, it wouln't be that bad!

Problem is they don't have a large amount of people who are 1) Good and 2) Willing to do almost all their work as just 'dubbers'. So, you have some people who just appear on almost every show. If they set it up like the Japanese voice system, they'd have probably hundreds of actors lining up for every show, but when all you're doing is re-dubbing a previous work, that doesn't exactly build up a call for people to grow excited to do the voices. At least not in the large amounts of original productions.

Majin Vegetto
02-02-2005, 09:04 PM
Personally, subs are vastly superior to dubs.

Point and case, Love Hina. I had watched the first few episodes dubbed, and the acting, and the voices in general, too laxed. There's just something unsettling about when Motoko Aoyama sounded too butch.

Hatake Kakashi
03-18-2005, 06:03 AM
In most cases, I would definitely prefer subs. The voices done originally for many an anime character far outshine their overseas counterparts. With Naruto being licensed recently, I'm dreading to hear what will come out of the characters' "mouths."

There are exceptions, of course. All of the main characters in Cowboy Bebop were done very well, IMHO. If more translations of anime used this as their prime example, I don't think there would be nearly the distinct difference in quality between subs and dubs as there is. Unfortunately, there are a lot of studios/licensing firms who care less about a quality product as much as licensing a popular anime and hiring a couple of horrible voice actors in order to effectively get their hands on what amounts to be the ability to print their own money. Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, and ESPECIALLY the early eps of DBZ show this. The theory states that if you grab somethin visually pleasing (relatively, depending on the audience you target), they don't really care what the characters sound like, or how stupid the lines are.

Not that Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh! were ever meant to be quality products so much as they were meant to market cards and toys....

But getting back to the subject, for the most part, the Japanese really do value the work put into their anime releases. Over there, yes, it's merchandising, a way to make money, but it's also an art. The audiences they reach and embrace are of almost all ages, unlike over here, where it's "edit this, edit that, target the kids and put out toys... parents can only take so much whining...." Hence why animes in general sound so much better subbed, even if we can't understand what we are hearing.

There's my two G.P. *plink plink* Leave my H.P. alone.

Cloud Clone
04-29-2005, 05:36 PM
Overall, I don't have much of a problem with dubs, there have been very few occasions where the American voices where so incredibly annoying that I've had to change it to the Japanese audio. I do, however, watch anime with the subtitles on since there is often a large difference between the two, though I'm not sure why. Maybe it's so the dubbed dialogue can better match the mouths of the characters? Either way, there is alot to be gained by reading the subtitles as well as listening to the English dialogue.

ThanosOfTitan321
05-08-2005, 11:33 PM
I like subs because you can get the effect that they were trying to give you in the voices of the characters better.

Krylo
05-09-2005, 12:52 AM
though I'm not sure why. Maybe it's so the dubbed dialogue can better match the mouths of the characters? Either way, there is alot to be gained by reading the subtitles as well as listening to the English dialogue.
Multiple reasons. One is the voice matching, to be sure, but there are other things as well, such as altering social commentary, references, and turns of phrases to be understood by an american audience.

Think of it this way: Directly translating an american television show to japanese would make no sense to most of the japanese, because they don't understand our mannerisms of speech. A japanese person isn't going to understand "I'm all tied up at the moment" coming from someone who's busy... or "I'm in the doghouse" coming from someone in trouble with their significant other, etc. etc. The japanese have similiar phrases that are altered in dubs, but not as often in subs.

Then you have things like social commentary. Making a joke about gender roles in america is going to change vastly if you try to allow a japanese audience to understand it... or jokes about buisness... or anything else. Again, dubs tend to try to compensate for this, while subs stay more true.

So, yah, lots of reasons for the change... and lots of changes that can be either construed as positive or negative depending upon your particular view.

The audiences they reach and embrace are of almost all agesYou do realize anyone over 12 who watches anime in japan is branded an otaku and ranked on the same position in their social ladder as someone who can program in 5 different languages but works at McDonald's over here, right? It's not considered as 'cool' there as it is in America, and we only really get the good stuff over here. Over there a lot of anime is like the shit that gets ripped to shreds in editing (or worse)... before it's ever changed. They're flooded with yu-gi-ohs and anime-esque teletubbies... which is probably why it's not cool to watch it.

Also: The shift key sticks on the computer I'm currently using. Excuse any mistakes of capitalization.

Danath
05-21-2005, 10:31 PM
Well no point is posting in both of the sub and dub threads cause i find advantages to both.
A posotive

Sub- you usually get a slightly better translation and it can fit better when the chara is talking

Dub- if you want to be doing something else while watching anime then you can listen to the english version and dont haveto continuasly watch the screen.

A negative

Sub- sometime it goes by way to fast and you actually have to rewind it to actually read the whole thing

dub-sometimes the voices are bad ot the voiced over it really badly for timing wise.


otherwise i will watch eather or cause well both have their ups and owns and it about equals out.

Silly Kitty
05-21-2005, 11:31 PM
I like subs because I like the general voice of the character better that way. The way it was suppose to be I guess. With dubs you don't have to read as much, but none-the-less I still like subs better.

Watching a sub then watching a dub of the same anime is really weird.

P-Sleazy
08-08-2005, 11:53 AM
One example is needed for this... ONE PIECE. The dub is just SOOO horrible with the voice acting and Sanji has a lollipop in it but still holds it like a cigarette. Nami sounds like a child. HELLO! is any there? she has breasts...nice ones at that too. Why should she sound like shes 10? The subs are also SOO much farther than the American Dubs are. The sub is on Episode 156 now whereas the dub is only nearing the 40 episode mark. Plus we dont have to wait during the summer for them to make new ones...the dubs keep commin no matter what season it is. :D

Proto-Zack
08-09-2005, 08:42 AM
I think any rational person perfers subs, like myself.

Thats why so many people outside of the anime, frown upon it as childish or stupid, is cause of bad dubbing.

One of my favorite anime and manga is Yu-Gi-Oh. I won't go into showing why subs are better. Here's a link: http://www.yu-jyo.net/

Nique
09-26-2005, 12:39 AM
I find subs more distracting, but I also find dubs to be strange if not done very well. Anime's not to bad, but movies like 'Crouching Tiger' feel better when subtittled, instead of dubbed over.

On that note, I need to find a transcript in english of FFVII: Last Order - My copy is Jappanesse w/ no dubbing or subbing, and although I know the story already, I would like to understand whats happening, eh?

Larsaan
12-03-2005, 08:13 AM
Try watch a dubbed movie. The character on screen give us a long chirade of silenced talking but all we hear from the speakers is 'no'. It doesn't seem real. It's really annoying when screen and sound doesn't match up.

cthu
01-08-2006, 02:48 PM
I am a longtime anime fan, and I almost always prefer the subs. The dubs usually have mismatched voices, and do not match the characters at all (usually). Excel's voice was terrible in the dub, not to mension Asuka's from evangelion. The Inuyasha dub is terrible too, except maybe Sesshoumaru and Naraku.
Plus the Dub ruins songs if they are sung in english.

There are only 3 dubs that I actually prefer over the subs.
1.Slayers series (not ADV ones!)
2.Record of Lodoss War the original
3.Key the Metal Idol

These are good, exept when the songs are sung in english. (Go Megumi!!! she is a great singer!)

EVERYTHING else I prefer Subbed. Japanese just has more emotion then English does. Also subs are how the original creators meant for it to be.

Also I dislike how the english dubs translate stuff, espesially in manga.
Its not SesshO-Maru! The correct way is Sesshoumaru and Sesshomaru.
Also it's not demon, it is Youkai (Yokai) Youkai translates to any creature that is abnormal (as in not human/animal). Tetstuiga just is crap, as most people prefer Tessaiga. Also Wind Scar, "Backlash wave" "Adament Barrage, and whatever else they use. Kaze no Kizu ,Bakuryuha. Kongoshoua are much better and sound cooler. Although Wind Scar IS a good translation.

I also prefer fansubs because it seems like they respond to the fans better, with using popular name translation, also the tend to be unedited, because the English versions are sometimes BUTCHERED for the kids.

Who agrees with me?

ps. Sorry if I was a little forceful, but the dubs and english translations really get to me :sweatdrop

Kaelus
01-24-2006, 08:55 PM
*raises hand* I do! o/

I like the way fansubs keep japanese terms in the subs, such as onee-chan or aniki (which fit in cotext much better then any english term if you know their exact meaning).

Also, fansubs are not interested in the market, so this fan-to-fan dedication takes their work to a whole new level of quality and originality. At least that's the impression I get. *shrugs*

Ralvuimago
02-05-2006, 02:51 PM
You know, I'm usually a dub guy myself, but I prefer the subs in Samurai Champloo.

I don't know, I felt the Japanese guy did a better job with Mugen than the American guy. He had a more weasel-y voice, which I felt suited his character. Whereas, in the English, I just think Mugen is trying to emulate Spike from Cowboy Bebop.

Gwalchavad
06-27-2006, 01:31 PM
Ah, memories of days trolling through Little Saigon in Orlando, then later Chinatown in Chicago, for stores selling fansubs. And then the anime scene exploded and all of a sudden I was able to get DVDs in the original language subbed at my local chain outlet... the only problem being when watching some shows where you KNOW the guy says "shit" in Japanese and the sub says "damn", it kind of takes a little piece of my black heart with it.

I've already posted the shows I prefer dubbed over in the dub thread, so I won't list them here, but by far I prefer subbed when watching anime and kung fu.

MariusTwilight
07-09-2006, 10:24 PM
The Anime "Loveless" is really only good with Subtitles. The Spell Phrases wouldn't turn out as cool in english really... they take away from the effect. I've seem some other shows that need subtitles.. because they just flow better.

[ray.z]
07-31-2006, 12:58 AM
You need subs to capture the feel of the show and the characters. And they have to be well done, cause even little words like kun and chan can make a huge difference in the interpretation of the dialogue.

Well done fansubs are always a must, especially when they explain certain words and phrases as well.

Sheik
10-06-2006, 03:46 PM
Have you ever seen the dubbed version of Escaflowne? *shudder* I didn't make it past the first episode. Besides, I've noticed that Japanese generally sounds much more.... passionate. Each emotional response, be it fury, happiness, sadness, pain, or what have you, is amplified by the nature of the language. Still, in most cases, I'm willing to watch either subbed or dubbed, then make a judgement.

Precisely! Even my forty-two-year-old Dad said that whilst I was watching InuYasha: The Movie subbed, which sounds so much better than the Dubbed, although Ocean Studios does a surprisingly adequate job.

Thingol
10-09-2006, 09:52 PM
Subs are just flat out better! They have better voice actors, and the scripts are actually what they were intended to be.

Andddd, when you're getting a sub it's not censored, always a must :)

JuggerHobbit
10-12-2006, 09:27 PM
Subs all the way. English voice actors ruin everything, and watching the lips of the characters move out of sync with the words is painful. Dubbing is the epitome of rape. End of story.

Kenryoku_Maxis
10-14-2006, 10:06 PM
Pretty much this is all you need to see to understand why Subs just work better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viTzfjoaF0w

Before this recording session (which is the hiccup episode where Osaka has the hiccups), the seiyuu (actors but you knew that) had watched the scene once. Then they did the scene a few times for practice. And then they started the recording you see here.

And this was all done in a couple hours or so because they were trained in voicework.

Skyshot
11-10-2006, 12:13 PM
So, I've been watching a fair bit of anime lately (just the big name stuff), and I'd say I prefer subs. I'm a visual type, and I usually have to turn on closed captioning to catch everything everyone says on English language programming anyways, so reading while watching me doesn't bother me.

Also, the dubs I've seen had excellent voices, but the actors sounded like amateurs reading lines directly off scripts. I don't know Japanese well enough to be able to tell overdramatic they sound, so I just get the original voices and a translation. Good stuff.

Also...
...watching the lips of the characters move out of sync with the words is painful.It is for me too, but it happens all the time in the original Japanese, maybe even more so than the dubs.

I_Like_Swordchucks
12-17-2006, 04:55 PM
Subs all the way. Too be honest, I usually don't mind a dub until I've seen the sub. And then I begin to think you actually lose on out some of the meaning and emotion behind it, because the dubbed doesn't quite catch it the same way.

The biggest disadvantage I find with subs is that if I turn my head, I might actually miss something because I don't understand whats being said otherwise. So while watching, I have to pay more attention.

YamiKaosu
01-07-2007, 12:10 AM
I used to prefer subs hardcore, but I've relented a bit (there are some good dubs, as people have pointed out). Generally though, I do prefer listening to the Japanese language track. It's partially due to the fact that I find it helpful in studying Japanese (and let's face it, there are some things that just can't be translated correctly into subtitles or the dubs), but also, I've become accustomed to the voices you find in Japanese. Especially in women voicing men and boys, because that isn't always easy to do in English (especially for men).

Going on a bit in terms of translations...like I said, as someone who translates in their spare time, there are many things that can't always be conveyed correctly when translated. Japanese uses so many varying forms of politeness and whatnot, even in their pronouns have these varying degrees. While it's not too difficult to translate "temee" or "omae" into some degrading form of "you" (you bastard, etc.), it's a bit harder to make a clear difference between "ore" and "watakushi," depending on what the character is saying. This also applies to name suffixes such as "-chan," "-sama," and the like.

Honestly, I suppose it's not so much that I prefer the subs, as much as it is that I would rather listen to the Japanese audio. Ha, I go so far as to dispute what the subs have as the translation (although to be fair, they are usually more accurate than the dubs end up being). Subs generally give a better indication of what's going on, whereas dubs are more likely to pull something out of thin air to match the lip movements (although, this can make for interesting comments, as Generator Gawl shows us XD).

Translation talk aside, I simply have a preference for the Japanese voices, especially some of the more well-known ones. They usually do a wonderful job, fit their characters well, and convey the emotion as it should be conveyed.

Eltargrim
01-07-2007, 02:54 AM
I prefer subs, myself, though that may be a side-effect of watching subs more than dubs. In any event, like YamiKaosu, I've grown accustomed to the voices in Japanese. While there are good dubs (I'm fond of .hack//SIGN's, myself; haven't been exposed to too many others) I find that I prefer subs; I don't even study the Japanese language, and I find by watching subs I can pick up on some subtexts, just from overexposure.

This, of course, means I actually have to do some study of Japan, to a) Balance out any weeaboo tendencies that may appear, and b) have a more rounded knowledge of the culture.

Blast. I hate cultural studies.

ArlanKels
05-20-2007, 09:13 PM
I prefer subs as they are often done in the way they're SUPPOSED to be.

An example:
Bleach, Ichimaru Gin ~ In Japanese he speaks in a weird way, the sub demonstrates this and it matches up beautifully with the characters visual design. Weird way of talking for a weird looking guy.

In English...he talks normally. It..ruins the character. Hideously so.

Robert Paulson
07-18-2007, 11:01 AM
If a show was not dubbed well, or if it was subject to any kind of censorship for Western audiences, I will prefer the original Japanese version with subtitles.

Of course, I don't really have any anime I like, as of the present, wherein I prefer the subbed version, but I will say this; most of the characters in Final Fantasy 7: Advent Children sounded better in Japanese than they did in English.

Basically, the reason I posted in both the dubbed thread and the subbed thread is because I don't assume all anime is best in the original Japanese format, but at the same time, I won't automatically think anime is best in my native language. You really have to watch all anime in both formats and decide which ones are best in English and which ones are best in Japanese.

LATE EDIT: Naruto sounds better in Japanese, as does Akira. (although, for the record, I did not enjoy Akira very much.)

peregrine
10-08-2007, 09:09 PM
Subbing all the way...

Most of the reason for this are ones that have already been said like:
Rough translations
Helps me in learning japanese
Tone of voice


but aside from that, I like it because, simply enough, you get to hear the ORIGINAL audio track.

Although I can stand dubbing, I definatly prefer subbing

Eltargrim
10-08-2007, 09:23 PM
Helps me in learning japanese

I'd advise against this, personally; unless you're listening to shows that display the subsection of society you'd like to emulate, chances are you'll pick up bad habits. That's not to say it can help with comprehension; I watch french dubs of popular shows because I need to practice picking out individual words. But to help you learn, and not practice? Sketchy.

Ryong
10-21-2007, 10:56 AM
I prefer subs because portuguese dubs sound horrible. Except for Naruto, since dubbed Naruto doesn't have the "Believe it!".

Tyrfing
11-05-2007, 09:27 AM
I do like subs... here is a (copied) list of my favourite Seiyuu and some of their roles. In no real order:

Megumi Ogata Shinji (Evangelion) Yukito (Cardcaptor Sakura)
Takehito Koyasu, Touga (Revolutionary Girl Utena.)
Kotono Mitsuishi Misato (NGE) Kagura (Fruits Basket) Mireille (Noir) Juri (Utena)
Tomoko Kawakami Misuzu (Air) Rosette (Chrono Crusade) Sayuri (Kanon) Utena (Revolutionary Girl Utena
Chieko Higuchi Tomo (Azumanga Diaoh)
Rie Tanaka Yomi (Azumanga Daioh) Chii, (Chobits)
Aya Hisakawa Chloe (Noir) Miki (Utena) Cerberus (Cardcaptor Sakura)
Houko Kuwashima Kagura (Azumanga Daioh) Minoru (Chobits) Kirika (Noir) Margaret (Madlax) Yurika (Nadesico)
Yukari Tamura Michiru (Air) Nanoha ( Nanoha)
Nana Mizuki Fate Testerosa (Nanoha)
Sakura Tange, Sakura Kinomoto (Cardcaptor Sakura)
Jurota Kosugi, Akio Ohtori (Revolutionary Girl Utena)

bananarama
11-05-2007, 05:40 PM
Subs all the way! The only one time I'm willing to watch an anime dubbed is watching Cowboy Bebop...

EVILNess
11-08-2007, 11:09 AM
Subs are great, but its incredibly annoying when you have to piece together an entire series through 6 different fan-sub groups.

Magish
11-08-2007, 05:21 PM
...Like with One Piece? :P

BitVyper
01-23-2008, 01:15 PM
I usually okay with good dubs until I see a subbed version. Then I can't go back.

russianreversal
01-23-2008, 02:06 PM
Subs for Death note, but I actually like Kensin's english voice actor in Rurouni Kenshin. And Trigun is kickass both ways.

Subs are my default, but when I watch anime with my family (not a common occurance), they say they miss the action with the subtitles. Pfff, learn to multitask.

Tiako
04-10-2008, 09:21 PM
Dubbing is stupid, in all occasions. Subbing is the way to go. How can you possibly watch Alain Delon or Toshiro Mifune without hearing their voice? The very notion is absurd!

Regulus Tera
04-10-2008, 09:44 PM
Dubbing is stupid, in all occasions. Subbing is the way to go. How can you possibly watch Alain Delon or Toshiro Mifune without hearing their voice? The very notion is absurd!

I would say dubbing can be superior to subbing in some instances, but very rarely. Final Fantasy XII would be the perfect example for that. It all depends on how the localisation is handled.

Tiako
04-13-2008, 07:10 PM
My biggest problem with dubbing is that voice is one half of the actor's performance. Watching a movie dubbed is like watching it with every other shot taken out.

Regulus Tera
04-13-2008, 10:54 PM
Well, that's true of live action, but dubbing animation doesn't have trouble with that other half of the actor's performance.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it depends on the case. I would say localisation can be better than translation when dealing with dubs, but only in very rare circumstances.

Granis
06-03-2008, 02:24 AM
I like subs for a very specific reason.

One of my favorite anime, the Digimon series, probably recieved the worst localization ever. but then again it's Saban. (the same people who brought us Power Rangers and the terrible US version of Kamen/Masked rider.) Digimon, nowadays is so poorly looked down upon as a simple Pokemon rip-off, because the localization made it friggin come off that way. the original version of Digimon is one of my favorite things to watch subbed, because the original music is great, the dialogue and characters and story are also awesome, given it's genre.(Digimon actually more closely follows Super Robot anime than Pokemon. Tamers was wrote by the "Big O/Lain guy" after all.) Digimon was my gateway into Mecha, I started jumping from Digimon, to Robotech/Macross, then to UC Gundam, and also from Big O, to all kinds of Super Robot anime from there as well, from Mazinkaizer, to Shin Getter, to GaoGaiGar, to GEAR Fighter Dendoh.

Hatake Kakashi
12-18-2008, 04:32 PM
The problem with most Dubs in the American sense is that, on the whole, the companies which license them don't give one crap about the anime, storyline, characters, plot points, or anything else that is behind making a great show actually great. They only check to see if a show is popular without bothering to check the reasons why.

Let's take Naruto, our current best example for the case-in-point. Naruto was a show popular with primarily a teenaged/young adult crowd in Japan, mainly because that was the demographic being targeted by the author. In Japan, Anime is regarded as an art form, and is treated as such. The author or his production team work hard to find appropriate, talented voice actors who can truly deliver the emotion and personality of the characters that the author intended for his/her creation. The result? Characters who come across as they should, making sense in the story for which they were created. Then, new fans overseas (subbing groups) begin to pick it up, understanding what is being written, and think to themselves: "This is an awesome story... maybe we should share this with a wider audience." And so they spend hours and days and months carefully translating the story as it was spoken for the rest of us to hear and see.

*sigh* Then, along come the majority of American Licensing companies, who really don't give a damn about anything that makes an anime truly great... what they're looking for is something they can dumb down and mass-market to kids in order to make a fortune selling cheaply-made plastic toys. They put out a quick search, doing a very basic audition in order to find voice "talent" to fill their character slots quickly.

One, possibly two well-known talents may be selected, usually for bit-parts, in order to generate interest in the more discriminating circles, but no more than this as it would cut into their profit margins. The rest are chosen regardless of any presence of actual talent (I'm looking at you, Maile (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0281068/) Flanagan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3injCU-gbsc)) to fill the character slots and "strike while the iron is hot," as they say.

The script and scenes are then massively edited for kid-friendly content (Rock Lee does not drink "Elixir," he drinks Sake), and hurriedly released toward an audience that generally doesn't know any better. They then begin scouting for their next anime trainwreck-in-waiting in order to, you guessed it, sell (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/419248W9W3L._SL500_AA280_.jpg) more (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51K4ZYRJXTL.jpg) toys (http://mymykids.com/common_files/images/toys/toy8.jpg).

Repeat ad nauseum.

Amake
01-02-2009, 06:26 AM
I like to liken dubbed movies to watching the backside of a painting. But still, It can be done well. They took six months to dub The Jungle Book back in the day and that really shows. Most of the time the quality of voice acting seems directly proportional to the distance between the actor and the country where the movie is made, but I think if you give it enough time you can make a film enjoyable in any language.

Even if you always lose some of the author's intentions and some of the original language's quirks.

Somewhere in here I was going to lead into a comment about this here post: Well, that's true of live action, but dubbing animation doesn't have trouble with that other half of the actor's performance. To point out that some of the higher quality animation tend to include the voice actors' physique and mannerisms, leading to the same problem.

Which I think isn't losing half of the actor's performance but getting a bizarre synthesis of two different performances. I'd hate to think how disorienting it must be to people who pay attention to body language and such. :x

Marelo
02-17-2009, 04:13 PM
I am having an extremely frustrating problem! I recently got into watching Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, and found that all of the ones from the torrent I picked, beyond episode one, didn't work! So, after a painful three day download of another torrent, I was golden!

Until episode 15, at which point all the episodes stopped working. So, I remembered that the original torrent I had used a different format for episodes 15+, and I had to redownload that because I had foolishly deleted them all. This took another painful day of no further TTGL.

It just finished today. So, I sit down to watch me some TTGL. But no. The subtitles don't work in WMP, Media Player Classic, or VLC.

Does anyone know where I can get access to the latter half (episodes 15-27) of this show in glorious (or even just functional) English subtitles?

Osterbaum
02-17-2009, 04:18 PM
It just finished today. So, I sit down to watch me some TTGL. But no. The subtitles don't work in WMP, Media Player Classic, or VLC.

Does anyone know where I can get access to the latter half (episodes 15-27) of this show in glorious (or even just functional) English subtitles?
I have the exact same problem! I figured I'd just download another torrent, I don't know.

Marelo
02-17-2009, 04:20 PM
I have the exact same problem! I figured I'd just download another torrent, I don't know.

From what I could tell, the two torrents I'm using are the only two that exist... It seems that several people here have seen the show in its entirety, though, so I'm just wondering if there's a secret password or something!

Found a solution! Just converted the .mkv files which weren't showing the subtitles into .avi with this (http://www.any-video-converter.com/download-avc-free.php), which I found in the freeware sticky in Computer Help.

Kim
03-05-2009, 05:57 AM
I just started watching FLCL subbed instead of dubbed for the first time. I think this is the only show where the Japanese voices sound less over-the-top than the American ones.

Pip Boy
04-19-2009, 01:44 PM
I am having an extremely frustrating problem! I recently got into watching Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, and found that all of the ones from the torrent I picked, beyond episode one, didn't work! So, after a painful three day download of another torrent, I was golden!

Until episode 15, at which point all the episodes stopped working. So, I remembered that the original torrent I had used a different format for episodes 15+, and I had to redownload that because I had foolishly deleted them all. This took another painful day of no further TTGL.

It just finished today. So, I sit down to watch me some TTGL. But no. The subtitles don't work in WMP, Media Player Classic, or VLC.

Does anyone know where I can get access to the latter half (episodes 15-27) of this show in glorious (or even just functional) English subtitles?

I bet you can't find them on any of the slightly lesser-known, less enforced video streaming sites. Like veoh.

Shhh.

Eldezar
01-31-2010, 12:59 AM
I like how it's kind of like a book but it creates the imagery for you.

brown_tiger
03-21-2010, 09:00 PM
Subs are great if you want to find out what the original dialogue was, and usually the original dialogue is pretty damn interesting.
Unfortunately I can't find many subs for the anime I am currently watching, and man it sucks!