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Premmy
02-08-2010, 10:04 PM
On the one hand, you have discovering amazing fantastic powers through accident or some other foolishness, or spending years training and designing awesome technology to fight crime. You get to wear a cool cape and swoosh it around and save the world.

In the wizard corner you have to study moldy old books in tombs. You get a pimp-ass hat but not much else, and you end up sitting in the back while douchebags with swords get to hit things until you finish chanting, usually by that time, there's nothing to unleash unholy hell on.
Decide.

Kyanbu The Legend
02-08-2010, 10:09 PM
Your description was a bit one sided there. I pick Hero, Cyber Suit made from nano technology FTW.

Eltargrim
02-08-2010, 10:13 PM
Breaking the laws of physics to my advantage? Yes please.

Also: superhero and wizard are not mutually exclusive, if you do it right ;)

bluestarultor
02-08-2010, 10:22 PM
I ask why there aren't more options. A psychic combines some of the best traits of both, allowing the person in question to have natural reality-bending abilities which they may then nurture and expand upon. It also rarely requires any kind of vocalization or gesture, and never any components as far as I'm aware.

Granted psychic abilities have their own downsides, but nothing's perfect.

Premmy
02-08-2010, 10:26 PM
Your description was a bit one sided there.
Sounds like the sympathizing of a punk-ass wizard to me.
I pick Hero, Cyber Suit made from nano technology FTW.that's more like it
Also: superhero and wizard are not mutually exclusive, if you do it right
http://www.screenhead.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/dr-strange.jpg
What's that? is that a big, pointy hat that's kinda pimp but mostly stupid? no, it's a big swooshy cape that's awesome.
Cause he's a fucking Doctor and a Sorceror Supreme and not a punk-ass wizard
http://blog.newsarama.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10087/zatanna.png
Oh hey, look, there's a hat, but it's not a marginally cool wizard hat, but a totally bitchin tophat, Why? Cause she's a Magician and not a punk-ass wizard.
http://www.comicheronews.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/Doctor_Voodoo.jpg
Oh look, more awesome swooshy capes, Cause Brother Voodoo's a god-damned Houngan, and a Sorceror Supreme and not a punk-ass wizard.
http://semantink.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/DrFate-FINAL.jpg
Well, that's a helmet... not a pointy-ass hat, and Look, swooshy cape.
Cause he's a doctor and a mage and not a punk-ass wizard

and they're ALL GOD-DAMNED Superheroes!

Archbio
02-08-2010, 10:35 PM
What... what about the Maiar?

It's not their fault those stupid mortals call them wizards.

They can, like, throw flaming pinecones at you.

Premmy
02-08-2010, 10:40 PM
Wizards are basically nerds with superpowers, Superheroes are totally awesome motherfuckers with superpowers.
I think we know who wins here.

Eltargrim
02-08-2010, 10:41 PM
Depends. Do I get 3.0 epic spells?

Krylo
02-08-2010, 10:43 PM
Man, superheroes get like one or two powers. Wizards get to have as many powers as they can pull out of their ass at any given time.

And chanting? What mythology are you in? Every one I know of only requires more than like one or two words if you want to crack open worlds or some shit.

http://dup18xnc1iiu3.cloudfront.net/images-live/flips/380/front.321.jpg

The Master of Past and Present would like to have a word with you in his office as soon as he's done bitching around Gods.

The word, by the way, is 'Power Word: Kill'.

Premmy
02-08-2010, 10:46 PM
Wizards get to have as many powers as they can pull out of their ass at any given time.

Pre-Crisis Superman.

Token
02-08-2010, 10:47 PM
Supervillain.

Krylo
02-08-2010, 10:48 PM
He had Super Speed, Super Strength, Invulnerability, Heat Vision, X-Ray Vision, and Ice Breath, same as post-Crisis, but Post-Crisis had less of all those and could fly proper instead of just jump around.

All his other 'ass pull' powers were bad physics and applications of his other powers.

I mean, really, is anyone gonna argue that 'SUPER WEAVING' wasn't just super speed applied to weaving? Really?

bluestarultor
02-08-2010, 10:55 PM
Yeah, there's a difference between having the myriad powers of the cosmos at your disposal and having shitty writers who decide to give you the Power of Plot.

Superman is easily the least interesting superhero of all time because of DC's obsession with squeaky-clean heroes combined with the fact that you always know who's going to win because he whips out some bullshit super-resist-Kryptonite-on-Tuesday-in-fair-weather power.

Premmy
02-08-2010, 11:01 PM
He had Super Speed, Super Strength, Invulnerability, Heat Vision, X-Ray Vision, and Ice Breath, same as post-Crisis, but Post-Crisis had less of all those and could fly proper instead of just jump around.

All his other 'ass pull' powers were bad physics and applications of his other powers.

I mean, really, is anyone gonna argue that 'SUPER WEAVING' wasn't just super speed applied to weaving? Really?

http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=53&limitstart=6
What's that? I'm a super-hero and have awesome-power instead of dumb-ass Roleleplaying-system-rules-power so I can do whatever the fuck I want?
http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=53&limitstart=8
like Clairvoyance and Psychic manipulation? and not being a dork in a stupid-ass hat?
http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=53&limitstart=12
http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=53&limitstart=19

Krylo
02-08-2010, 11:02 PM
Did you see a hat on Mr. Majere?

I didn't see a hat on Mr. Majere.

I saw a look of pure fucking hate in his eyes, and if I were you I'd be a little more respectful of Mr. Majere's choice of professions.

Premmy
02-08-2010, 11:04 PM
Also
http://www.comicbox.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/ulti3.jpg
Super-Heroes only NEED one power.
Reality Warping, very common for not-lame as hell superheroes.

Krylo
02-08-2010, 11:07 PM
Reality warping is just what magic is.

I mean, really man. Go look it up. In like 99% of mythologies it's all "I bend reality to my whims through sheer will alone."

Scarlet Witch is still a WITCH, dude. Witch is just a euphemism for wizard.

bluestarultor
02-08-2010, 11:07 PM
http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=53&limitstart=6
What's that? I'm a super-hero and have awesome-power instead of dumb-ass Roleleplaying-system-rules-power so I can do whatever the fuck I want?
http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=53&limitstart=8
like Clairvoyance and Psychic manipulation? and not being a dork in a stupid-ass hat?
http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=53&limitstart=12
http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=53&limitstart=19

Got some broken image links in here, you know.

Besides that, there are spells for clairvoyance and psychic manipulation. There are spells for pretty much everything. You can kill stuff with rainbows for crying out loud. And it's actually one of the more useful spells due to the effects each color possesses.

Premmy
02-08-2010, 11:11 PM
And superheroes get to do it without wearing a stupid hat or spending five thousand years learning the Immortality spell they need to cast on themselves ot learn how to do anything worthwhile.
Scarlet Witch is still a WITCH,
Scarlet Witch is a mutant which means
"I'm too awesome for even the origin shit and jsut came out of the box this way"
and a witch is a witch. a Wizard is'nt a wizard without his hat. Seriously.

Krylo
02-08-2010, 11:16 PM
Man, you keep mentioning the hat.

Gandalf doesn't have a hat, Raistlin doesn't have a hat, his cousin Palin doesn't have a hat, Lina Inverse doesn't have a hat, Varsuvius doesn't have a hat, seriously man. The only actual named wizard I can think of with a hat is Fistandilus--and he gets a pass because his hat is sentient and he's a senile god.

And yeah, you're right.

Scarlet Witch is a mutant. There's a difference there. She's all like, "Oh my, I can't possibly warp reality without this slight alteration to my genetic genome that doesn't actually make any sense."

Wizards, on the other hand are like, "Hey, reality. You're my bitch, do what I say or I will fucking choke you," and reality's all like, "Yes sir! Just don't beat me again!"

bluestarultor
02-08-2010, 11:16 PM
And superheroes get to do it without wearing a stupid hat or spending five thousand years learning the Immortality spell they need to cast on themselves ot learn how to do anything worthwhile.

Scarlet Witch is a mutant which means
"I'm too awesome for even the origin shit and jsut came out of the box this way"
and a witch is a witch. a Wizard is'nt a wizard without his hat. Seriously.

Gandalf the White would like to disagree with you.

Premmy
02-08-2010, 11:19 PM
Gandalf the White would like to disagree with you.

And Silver Surfer, Dr. Strange, Dr. Fate, Zatanna, Brother Voodoo, and Scarlet Witch would STILL step allllll the way into his chest, even if he was'nt a Zombizzard version of a lame-ass wizard.

Archbio
02-08-2010, 11:20 PM
If the Scarlet Witch was an actual Witch she probably wouldn't turn her house into a mushroom when a writer decide that she's having a hysterical moodswing.

Just saying.

Geminex
02-08-2010, 11:24 PM
I go for Wizzard.
Seriously, the Saving the world/Superpowers ratio is approaching infinity. As opposed to superman, where it approaches fucking zero.
Rincewind FTW.

Premmy
02-08-2010, 11:26 PM
Most wizards live in a world without Pizza
Edit:
and feminine hygiene and video games and the internet and guns and personal lubricant and soap.

EVILNess
02-09-2010, 12:42 AM
Did anyone else have the thought "Why the fuck would I be a Superhero if I had an awesome swooshy cape? I mean, super powers?"

I don't think I am a bad person, but I don't think my conscience could take being able to bend reality to my whim.

Amake
02-09-2010, 02:22 AM
http://dimpost.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/alan_moore.jpg
This is a wizard.

http://bagelofeverything.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/superhero-and-lady.jpg
This is a superhero.

One of them is actively, seriously changing the world with the power of his mind. His http://editdesk.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/watchmen-cover1.jpg are actually directly responsible for the state of the superheroes today. He bends the entire concept of superheroes to his will. The other wears a ridiculous dress.

Premmy
02-09-2010, 02:28 AM
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gawker/2008/06/bobby.jpg
This Superhero has affected just as many people.

And Steven Colbert Approves. (http://vodpod.com/watch/2345990-rza-on-the-colbert-report)

Professor Smarmiarty
02-09-2010, 02:37 AM
If you were a wizard you could like walk down the street and point at people and those people would have orgasms.

Meister
02-09-2010, 02:39 AM
Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, so I'm gonna go with the massive amounts of nanotech and just call myself a wizard.

Arhra
02-09-2010, 02:39 AM
On the one hand, you have discovering amazing fantastic powers through accident or some other foolishness, or spending years training and designing awesome technology to fight crime. You get to wear a cool cape and swoosh it around and fight crime.

In the wizard corner you have to study moldy old books in tombs. You get a pimp-ass hat but not much else, and you end up sitting in the back while douchebags with swords get to hit things until you finish chanting, usually by that time, there's nothing to unleash unholy hell on.
Decide.
Let's see...

As Superman I could get up, cook myself an omelette with my heat vision, do my chores at super speed (which is still boring because it's still that ammount of apparent time!), clean all the dirt off my body by vibrating at super-super-speed, make myself an ice coffee with my ice breath and then head off for a day of reporting, lame excuses for my sudden disappearances and punching out crooks.

As a wizard I could summon demons to DO ALL THIS BORING SHIT FOR ME.

Sexy demons!

Geminex
02-09-2010, 02:39 AM
Did we skip the part where you were pointing at yourself constantly?

Professor Smarmiarty
02-09-2010, 03:35 AM
Did we skip the part where you were pointing at yourself constantly?

What a terrible wizard you would be.

Melfice
02-09-2010, 06:41 AM
Did we skip the part where you were pointing at yourself constantly?

Yeah, seriously.
Half the fun is making it happen.

ANYWAY, prolly a wizard.
Unseen University sounds like a fun enough place.

BitVyper
02-09-2010, 08:06 AM
Any dumbass can get super powers in a lab explosion or some bullshit. The ones who actually made their own powers are few and far between. Wizards have to be intelligent, and will therefore fuck your shit up even without their powers.

Granny Weatherwax (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/160/358630694_54950cdf7e.jpg?v=0) will fuck your shit up with a (non-magical) word. Pray that's all she does.

Funka Genocide
02-09-2010, 09:59 AM
John Constantine is a god damn Wizard. He doesn't need a funny hat or a bunch of nonsense syllables, just a pack of smokes and a bad attitude. He told Satan, ancient unspeakable evils, cannabalistic witch doctors and fucking cancer to take off. Plus he fucks dryads.

krogothwolf
02-09-2010, 10:26 AM
People don't go around saying "A Superhero Did it" they say "A Wizard did it" so I would go with being a wizard. Plus I like the sexy demon idea too.

Magic_Marker
02-09-2010, 10:41 AM
Why would you make me choose!?

Oh yeah
C'mon

You get the eagle mount out front (baby)
Hottest styles
Every hat, every color
Yeah, when you're a wizard it can be kinda fun
It's really you but no one ever discovers

In some ways you're just like all your superhero friends
But on stage you're a mage

You get the best of both worlds
Chill it out take it slow
Then you rock out the show
You get the best of both worlds
Mix it all together
And you know that it's the best of both worlds

The best of both worlds (yeah)

krogothwolf
02-09-2010, 10:59 AM
You are an Insane lunatic magic! Don't use an eagle Mount. YOU WANT A DRAGON! They breath fire and have giant freaking teeth and claws. Along with a tail you could attack spikes to. Then put the dragon in armour!

Amake
02-09-2010, 11:07 AM
John Constantine is a god damn Wizard. He doesn't need a funny hat or a bunch of nonsense syllables, just a pack of smokes and a bad attitude. He told Satan, ancient unspeakable evils, cannabalistic witch doctors and fucking cancer to take off. Plus he fucks dryads. And who came up with John Constantine? That's right, Alan Moore.

BitVyper
02-09-2010, 11:29 AM
And who came up with John Constantine? That's right, Alan Moore.

Time is cyclical! We beget ourselves! All of this has happened before and all of it will happen again!

Amake
02-09-2010, 11:54 AM
Meanwhile I have a wizardly sort of question. What would be the value of a one dollar bill signed by Andy Warhol, where the signature is a cheap forgery by Pablo Picasso?

Yes I've been reading Doom Patrol.

Hanuman
02-09-2010, 04:11 PM
Superhero, no question.
Wizards CAN be heroes, but don't have to be.

I'd basically want Jean Gray's powers, without the phoenix traits... though that would be cool too.

Professor Smarmiarty
02-09-2010, 04:15 PM
My program wasn't compiling correctly and I had spent weeks going through the code. Then a man came along and fixed the problem in 5 minutes. His name was Linux Wizard.
No superhero could fix my computer, it was only a job for wizards.

Krylo
02-09-2010, 04:16 PM
http://www.wolfgnards.com/media/blogs/photos/celebrities/The-Wizard.jpg

Game.

Set.

Match.

bluestarultor
02-09-2010, 04:25 PM
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gawker/2008/06/bobby.jpg
This Superhero has affected just as many people.

And Steven Colbert Approves. (http://vodpod.com/watch/2345990-rza-on-the-colbert-report)

Just an honest question, but who is this guy? I've never seen him before.


Edit: And the name from the vid doesn't ring a bell, either.

Krylo
02-09-2010, 04:29 PM
RZA, Wu Tang Clan.

Not nearly as awesome as Fred Savage, and he'll never be awesome enough to be carried on Fred Savage's shoulders.

Amake
02-09-2010, 04:49 PM
http://www.wolfgnards.com/media/blogs/photos/celebrities/The-Wizard.jpg Did I dream a video someone had edited the finale of that movie so that the kid wins the SMB3 tournament by collecting three star cards? Cause that'd be so much better than what actually happens. Which is so boring I don't even remember it. All I remember is there was a distinct lack of star-shaped fireworks.

Doc ock rokc
02-09-2010, 05:05 PM
Wizard vs hero in all situations (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFuMpYTyRjw)
Im rolling with Magic myself because ...I CAN!
~YEAHHHHHHH!~

Premmy
02-09-2010, 10:02 PM
RZA, Wu Tang Clan.

Not nearly as awesome as Fred Savage, and he'll never be awesome enough to be carried on Fred Savage's shoulders.

Is Fred Savage a superhero? The RZA is. (http://larecord.com/interviews/2008/06/20/rza-kung-fu-cures-perversion/)
Did you really make an actual Bobby Digital super-suit and super-car?
That was real! And Dirty was helping me! Me and Dirty were living together. 1998 in Battery Park, Manhattan, and Dirty—the feds were out to kill him. I had so much love for him and shit that I wanted to help protect him, and I had a feeling overcome me that I was a superhero—somebody to help the world! So I had my brother order a Level 4 fucking vehicle—what the president rides in. You can shoot it with an AK and it keeps moving. After he hit a deer, it didn’t even dent the car! The deer flew way in the air and not even a dent on the paint! It was a Suburban. I still got it. It weighs nine tons. It’s parked at my brother’s house in New Jersey.My program wasn't compiling correctly and I had spent weeks going through the code. Then a man came along and fixed the problem in 5 minutes. His name was Linux Wizard.
No superhero could fix my computer, it was only a job for wizards.
You sure about that? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed_Richards#Powers_and_abilities)
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/05/smart_heroes/image/reed_richard_mr_fantastic.jpg
also
Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, so I'm gonna go with the massive amounts of nanotech and just call myself a wizard.
Why go with nanotech when you can go with everything ever plus everything else? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forge_(comics))
http://marvel.com/universe3zx/images/thumb/1/13/Forge442.jpg/440px-Forge442.jpg

bluestarultor
02-09-2010, 10:14 PM
Good grief, did Forge somehow age thirty years while I wasn't looking? o_0;

EVILNess
02-09-2010, 10:52 PM
I'm just gonna throw out there that magic is the only thing that can hurt Superman that isn't a green irradiated space rock.

Premmy
02-09-2010, 11:12 PM
But regular, Unmagical, unradiated rocks can hurt wizards, what with them being 99 year old weirdoes who live in caves and spend their lives devoted to a hokey ancient religion that forces them to wear stupid hats and read a bunch of moldy old books forever and ever.

Arhra
02-09-2010, 11:14 PM
Wizards are priests now?

bluestarultor
02-09-2010, 11:14 PM
I'm just gonna throw out there that magic is the only thing that can hurt Superman that isn't a green irradiated space rock.

On Mondays, when it's sunny and the temperature is between 70 and 72F.


I should stop that now. XD



The point being Supes can do and is or isn't susceptible to whatever whoever happens to be writing him at the time feels like. That tends to give him a fair amount of leeway and really only raises questions as to what does and doesn't count. We're talking about a guy who goes to an empty patch of space to, uh, sneeze. So he doesn't destroy the world. Because there's totally sneezable air in outer space.

Premmy
02-09-2010, 11:17 PM
Wizards are priests now?

The pope's hat is too cool to be a wizard's lame-ass hat. Plus, he wears a cape.

Arhra
02-09-2010, 11:23 PM
But regular, Unmagical, unradiated rocks can hurt wizards, what with them being 99 year old weirdoes who live in caves and spend their lives devoted to a hokey ancient religion that forces them to wear stupid hats and read a bunch of moldy old books forever and ever.
You still haven't answered my question!

bluestarultor
02-09-2010, 11:27 PM
You still haven't answered my question!

Wizards' powers don't rely on them being in favor with whatever deity they happen to worship.

Masaki-kun
02-09-2010, 11:39 PM
Harry Dresden: Wizard
http://www.aidanmoher.com/blog/random-pictures/Dresden_Poster.jpg
Wizards get shit done.

Hanuman
02-09-2010, 11:44 PM
^ Has a point, super heroes generally can't fight evil naked.

Premmy
02-09-2010, 11:48 PM
^ Has a point, super heroes generally can't fight evil naked.

Who in the hell told you that bullshit?
http://www.chrlc.vic.gov.au/cb_pages/images/Captain%20underpants1.jpg

bluestarultor
02-09-2010, 11:51 PM
Who in the hell told you that bullshit?
http://www.chrlc.vic.gov.au/cb_pages/images/Captain%20underpants1.jpg

He's Captain Underpants. That makes him not naked. Also, he has a cape.

Intern Nin
02-09-2010, 11:52 PM
Fact: A team of robot superheroes can morph into pieces of clothing to form one super-pimptacular suit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qmxp7aPLil0). Can a team of wizards do that? I think not.

Premmy
02-09-2010, 11:53 PM
He's Captain Underpants. That makes him not naked. Also, he has a cape.
http://images.dailyradar.com/media/uploads/showhype/story_large/2009/04/03/hugh_jackman_naked_nude_wolverine_leaked_2b.jpg
http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2009/03/08/images/20090309_doctormanhattan_560x375.jpg
http://fandangogroovers.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/mystique.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_iuYZAZMao_o/SrkPsxPZSMI/AAAAAAAAACQ/tiagv0s-BIc/s320/beast.jpg

Hanuman
02-10-2010, 12:01 AM
Ah good call Prem!
I disagree that superhero underpants counts for anything, When you see a superhero a lot of the time they are either wearing spandex boxers or a speedo or something similar.

The point I was trying to make is that superheroes by definition generally need to be role models, and fairly composed. There are exceptions, and instances and I agree with you on that.

Arhra
02-10-2010, 12:08 AM
^ Has a point, super heroes generally can't fight evil naked.
To be fair, nothing really is stopping them from fighting in the nude.

Well, except for Iron Man.

And anyone with a sceret identity.

Geminex
02-10-2010, 12:41 AM
Well as long as they're still wearing their mask, they should be fine.
Hell, if Batman did all his crime-fighting naked that'd make him even more scary!
He'd still have his cape, of course.

Intern Nin
02-10-2010, 12:50 AM
Yeah, except I think there are too many women in Gotham who could identify Bruce Wayne by his junk alone. Also, there is absolutely no way he could operate in the buff with a young boy by his side and still have the backing of the GPD.

Premmy
02-10-2010, 01:00 AM
Yeah, except I think there are too many women in Gotham who could identify Bruce Wayne by his junk alone.
The same cannot be said of gandalf.....

Kyanbu The Legend
02-10-2010, 01:12 AM
This is getting good. (not that kind of way)

Though I'm all for heroes. A wizard can **** thousands of men/women in seconds with the flick of his wrist. So they wouldn't even know what his junk looks like.

Just saying is all.

Premmy
02-10-2010, 01:19 AM
You got the "Flick of the wrist" thing right.
You don't wanna fuck a hairy old man, do ya?

Kyanbu The Legend
02-10-2010, 01:23 AM
Forgot to include that.

Amake
02-10-2010, 02:57 AM
The point being Supes can do and is or isn't susceptible to whatever whoever happens to be writing him at the time feels like. That tends to give him a fair amount of leeway and really only raises questions as to what does and doesn't count. We're talking about a guy who goes to an empty patch of space to, uh, sneeze. So he doesn't destroy the world. Because there's totally sneezable air in outer space. That's generally true, but he's always extremely vulnerable to magic no matter who writes him. Like, -100% magic resistance. It's still a very flexible vulnerability since the writers will just include magic in the story to the extent that they want Supers to be hurt by it.

Ever notice how rarely Superman fights Captain Marvel (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Shazam)? It's no contest at all.

</turbonerd>

Professor Smarmiarty
02-10-2010, 03:01 AM
It's more of a stupidity weakness than anything else. Supes could move too fast for most magic users to be able to cast any spells but he doesn't fight like that, he'll just fl in and hover in front of them for a while so they can blast him down.
Also I'm fairl sure it's not actually a weakness, it's just that he has no special resistances to magic.

Yrcrazypa
02-10-2010, 04:38 AM
You know what wizards can do? They can stop time, and proceed to lay down some shit that will explode you a million times as soon as time kicks back in. Can a superhero do that, while also having something that says "If someone that wants to hurt me gets within ten miles, they get exploded?" No, they cannot.

BitVyper
02-10-2010, 07:49 AM
it's just that he has no special resistances to magic.

Well in his case, having no special resistances to something is a weakness.

Edit: And speaking of Captain Marvel; wizards can create superheroes.

Hanuman
02-10-2010, 08:19 AM
(http://jdtalley.tumblr.com/)GOD-MAN (http://jdtalley.tumblr.com/)

The superhero with omnipotent powers! (http://jdtalley.tumblr.com/)

bluestarultor
02-10-2010, 09:11 AM
http://images.dailyradar.com/media/uploads/showhype/story_large/2009/04/03/hugh_jackman_naked_nude_wolverine_leaked_2b.jpg
Okay, but he doesn't fight crime that way.

http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2009/03/08/images/20090309_doctormanhattan_560x375.jpg
http://fandangogroovers.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/mystique.jpg
I'll give you these two, although Mystique only was naked in the movie.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_iuYZAZMao_o/SrkPsxPZSMI/AAAAAAAAACQ/tiagv0s-BIc/s320/beast.jpg
Beast actually does not go naked. Just in really small pants. Actually, a lot of his newer uniforms cover most of his fur, but with them turning him into some feline abomination people can't draw to look good half the time, I can't really say it's an improvement.

Funka Genocide
02-10-2010, 11:41 AM
Super heroes are defined by their super powers. Those powers are derived from any number of sources and come in varying degrees of usefulness. Some super heroes are actually wizards, which would obviously mean the converse is true.

If we take super heroes as a whole, we find that the majority possess either gimmicky or limited abilities, and some possess no paranormal abilities whatsoever (relegated to intellect and technology, as it were.)

So to compare the "average" wizard to the "average" super hero, the Wizard wins, as alll wizards share in common the ability to change reality through sheer force of will and intellect alone, whereas the great volume of superheroes inevitably leads the average baseline to be skewed, as the nigh-omnipotence of some is absurdly diluted by the likes of Hawkman or whatever.

Krylo
02-10-2010, 06:32 PM
alll wizards share in common the ability to change reality through sheer force of will and intellect alone

This right here is really why wizards are better.

Like, ok Blue Wang Boy up there could probably beat down on a wizard, the fact of the matter is that he only has his reality warping powers because of a lab accident.

The same is true of all super heroes that are not also wizards. They got their power because they came from space, or because they're a mutant, or from a lab accident, or a meteor landed too close to them, or there was a radioactive spider, etc. etc.

Wizards, on the other hand, don't need that shit. They don't need mutations or alien birth rights or any other stupidity to shape reality to their whim. They just grab reality around the throat with pure force of will and tell it what to do, and it better goddamn do what they say.

Premmy
02-10-2010, 08:05 PM
Wizards, on the other hand, don't need that shit. They don't need mutations or alien birth rights or any other stupidity to shape reality to their whim. They just grab reality around the throat with pure force of will and tell it what to do, and it better goddamn do what they say.
They do need to spend a great deal of time learning Spells in a moldy cave or temple and wear stupid hats.

Wigmund
02-10-2010, 08:08 PM
Wizard riding a Zombie T-rex.
http://www.dandossantos.com/gallery/illustrations/full_dresden3.jpg
Wizards win.

EDIT: This wizard learned magic by having one of his masters chuck cinderblocks at him.

bluestarultor
02-10-2010, 08:09 PM
They do need to spend a great deal of time learning Spells in a moldy cave or temple and wear stupid hats.

The hats are purely optional. Stereotypical, even. Really, it's not a requirement at all and many prefer hoods or just not wearing headgear.

The same generalization could be made for superheroes wearing skintight underwear. Like, seriously, in real life, that would either flatten your boys or make you very uncomfortable to look at. And God help us all if Wolvie got too close to Jean or something.

Krylo
02-10-2010, 08:09 PM
They do need to spend a great deal of time learning Spells in a moldy cave or temple and wear stupid hats.

Wizards are adults who walk around on their own two legs.

Superheroes are small babies that can't walk around without support.

Premmy
02-10-2010, 08:50 PM
Wizards are adults who walk around on their own two legs.

Superheroes are small babies that can't walk around without support.

Support? You mean like a staff? Like the kind an old, crusty-ass man uses?
http://www.gameweb.gr/lordoftherings/photos/images/gandalf.jpg
First Google Image Search for wizard:
http://lloydi.com/travel-writing/round-the-world-trip/country/04-new_zealand/south-island/images/wizard.jpg
First Google Search Image for Superhero:
http://swclinux.lakeheadschools.ca/news/wp-content/superheroes02.jpg

Funka Genocide
02-10-2010, 09:00 PM
I see you trollin, try'na catch me ridin' dirty.

Krylo
02-10-2010, 09:03 PM
Support? You mean like a staff? Like the kind an old, crusty-ass man uses?


I mean support like this (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=1013988&postcount=20).

Superheroes can't control their power without some kind of support or crutch.


Wizards don't need that. They make their own power regardless of lab accidents or genetic mutations. They don't need a little baby walker (http://ummusaif.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Baby_Walker2.jpg) to control the forces of the cosmos like a superhero does.

krogothwolf
02-10-2010, 09:26 PM
Gandalf only used his staff to lure his enemies into a false sense of security before he busted out his awesome wizardness and annihilated them.

Krylo
02-10-2010, 09:28 PM
Gandalf used a sword more often than he used spells, and I'm pretty sure he used his staff to bust open fools heads more often than he used it to walk.

bluestarultor
02-10-2010, 09:54 PM
http://swclinux.lakeheadschools.ca/news/wp-content/superheroes02.jpg

See what I mean about uncomfortable bulges? At least with a wizard, you can be like, "is that a wand in your robes or are you just happy to see me?"

With the above example, we can come to the conclusion the Bats is poorly endowed, because he's the only one of the men that doesn't have a parrot in his pants.


Edit: Also, the way Hawk Man is looking at Pym (or whoever that is) is mildly disturbing. Also, Batman apparently has the Bat-ability to stand beneath the ground. MM kind of has an excuse.

Edit Edit: Actually the perspective is all kinds of fucked up.

Arhra
02-10-2010, 09:59 PM
The same generalization could be made for superheroes wearing skintight underwear. Like, seriously, in real life, that would either flatten your boys or make you very uncomfortable to look at. And God help us all if Wolvie got too close to Jean or something.
I didn't know his thing went snikt.

Wolverine terrifies me!

BitVyper
02-10-2010, 10:12 PM
They do need to spend a great deal of time learning Spells in a moldy cave or temple and wear stupid hats.

Dark Schneider would like a word. (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_uUOl9OZX71c/SALmvarak7I/AAAAAAAAA1k/GthlHVk4yxU/s1600-h/bstard20.jpg)

bluestarultor
02-10-2010, 10:19 PM
I didn't know his thing went snikt.

Wolverine terrifies me!

Beast is even more terrifying. Did you know at some point they had the bright idea to give him some sort of pheromone control thing that could make him incredibly attractive to women?

Also, in many versions, he's only wearing a speedo. Imagine THAT popping up at an inopportune moment. Thankfully, by the time he had a thing for Emma, he was in proper pants made out of leather.

Locke cole
02-11-2010, 12:23 PM
Wizard.

Because then I can have any and/or all of the powers that those silly one-or-two-power superheroes have.
And when I can set people on fire with a word, nobody's going to complain about my robes or hat, thankyouverymuch.

Yrcrazypa
02-11-2010, 05:42 PM
Set people on fire? Amateur, why not make them your slave, whilst making yourself immortal by creating a copy of yourself, and locking your real self away in a demiplane of your own creation that is inaccessible to any but yourself, rendering yourself an immortal?

You gotta think big with this kinda stuff.

Preturbed
02-11-2010, 06:52 PM
http://elizabethcheri.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/2611f.jpg

Read that then try to argue that Wizards aren't better.

Lyaer
02-11-2010, 08:13 PM
Some invisible superheroes can ONLY fight crime in the buff.

I'm gonna go with wizards because they don't pay lip service to the laws of physics and then turn around and blatantly ignore them. They skip the middle part and get right to business.

None of that "my dad has lazer eyes so I can turn into a cat! It's genetic!" or "I got hit by gamma radiation so OF COURSE gravity doesn't apply to me anymore" nonsense.

Wizards skip this problem by either appealing to a different set of rules entirely or simply overpowering the workings of nature through sheer force of will. When a wizard breaks the rule's they're supposedly following, we call it bad writing.

Krylo
02-11-2010, 09:05 PM
Some invisible superheroes can ONLY fight crime in the buff.

I'm gonna go with wizards because they don't pay lip service to the laws of physics and then turn around and blatantly ignore them. They skip the middle part and get right to business.

None of that "my dad has lazer eyes so I can turn into a cat! It's genetic!" or "I got hit by gamma radiation so OF COURSE gravity doesn't apply to me anymore" nonsense.

Wizards skip this problem by either appealing to a different set of rules entirely or simply overpowering the workings of nature through sheer force of will.

This man gets it.

Masaki-kun
02-11-2010, 09:23 PM
You know what wizards can do? They can stop time, and proceed to lay down some shit that will explode you a million times as soon as time kicks back in. Can a superhero do that, while also having something that says "If someone that wants to hurt me gets within ten miles, they get exploded?" No, they cannot.

ZA WARUDO

Premmy
02-11-2010, 10:25 PM
Wizard exist in a world that may or may not even have physics...

bluestarultor
02-11-2010, 10:51 PM
Wizard exist in a world that may or may not even have physics...

On the contrary, wizards' worlds have the same physics as ours, only wizards have figured out how to play with the random number generator. Through ritual actions, they input their own values into it to produce a highly unlikely natural result, much like following the Pokeball on the D-pad is said to help ensure a Pokemon is caught (although the makers have said that this is false).

Physically speaking, there is no such thing as a truly 0% chance of any event, just that some things are so unlikely as to be effectively impossible. Wizards play on that and make the highly unlikely happen; superheroes just whip shit out of their asses for no good reason.

Psychics, on the other hand, do the same thing as wizards, only through sheer force of will, rather than employing outside forces to aid in it. Which makes psychics way more badass than wizards, despite being initially less powerful as they discover and nurture their inborn abilities. :cool:

Lyaer
02-12-2010, 06:01 PM
Nooooo. You're turning magic into pseudoscience. ;_;

bluestarultor
02-12-2010, 06:39 PM
Nooooo. You're turning magic into pseudoscience. ;_;

This is what you get when you combine programming with fantasy writing and a light background in physical sciences. :p

Amake
02-13-2010, 02:26 AM
About magic versus science, I've long thought it funny that science doesn't allow for the existence of magic, while magic encompasses science. All of science can be considered a magic spell: A very successful, large scale work that attempts to name every thing in existence in order to gain power over nature. It's a scale of practical magic that's never been matched before or since, but it's still well within the boundaries of magical thought.

The point is science offers a small and constricting way of thinking next to magic. It's a paint by numbers Elvis portrait next to a blank page.

bluestarultor
02-13-2010, 11:02 AM
Well, you have to consider magic vs. the paranormal. There's a lot of stuff science has yet to explain, but that doesn't make it any less real. Things like auras have actual scientific basis or at least supporting reports. Science has followed a woman's aura through her monthly cycle, for instance, and aura photography sounds like it's all smoke and mirrors, but then my local news reported on it and one of the staff was indicated to be pregnant a week before she even knew about it because of a second bright spot that occurs over the heart in her belly.

So there's some pretty thought-provoking evidence to a lot of it.


Magic, on the other hand, is a lot more overtly religious in nature. The thought processes are different there. You can have a religion and still believe in science, but the nature of science as a profession is to be skeptical of the unexplained, and if anything is unexplained, it's religion. Religion is a matter of faith, where science is a matter of proof, so short of observable, testable, replicable proof, science doesn't recognize things.

Professor Smarmiarty
02-13-2010, 11:41 AM
Well, you have to consider magic vs. the paranormal. There's a lot of stuff science has yet to explain, but that doesn't make it any less real. Things like auras have actual scientific basis or at least supporting reports. Science has followed a woman's aura through her monthly cycle, for instance, and aura photography sounds like it's all smoke and mirrors, but then my local news reported on it and one of the staff was indicated to be pregnant a week before she even knew about it because of a second bright spot that occurs over the heart in her belly.

So there's some pretty thought-provoking evidence to a lot of it.


I saw David Copperfield walk through the great wall of China and then fly off into the sky. I'm pretty sure that makes it real.

bluestarultor
02-13-2010, 12:07 PM
I saw David Copperfield walk through the great wall of China and then fly off into the sky. I'm pretty sure that makes it real.

You know what I mean. It's about the mechanics.

Premmy
02-13-2010, 12:09 PM
This thread is too much Magic-babble bullshit and not enough Fly-ass capes.

bluestarultor
02-13-2010, 12:23 PM
This thread is too much Magic-babble bullshit and not enough Fly-ass capes.

You're absolutely right! We should be trying to apply a functional logic to superpowers to see how they hold up!


Thinking of it this way, superheroes usually have a standard array of powers to work with:
- psychic/magical (already covered)
- elemental (also magical)
- regeneration (explainable by a very high metabolism gone soft-science)
- healing (magical or psychic)
- flight (possibly telekinetic (psychic) or based on moving air or energy (magical/psychic), unless winged)
- energy projection (magical/psychic)
- strength, speed, durability (explained by metabolism again, or possibly physical density, again, to a ridiculous degree)
- transmutation (like Colossus, magical/psychic)
- technological (technological, of course)



So as you can clearly see, unless you're limited to just punching stuff, there's a pretty good chance your powers can be explained by you being a one-trick pony at using magic or psychic abilities. :p

Premmy
02-13-2010, 12:50 PM
You're absolutely right! We should be trying to apply a functional logic to superpowers to see how they hold up!


Thinking of it this way, superheroes usually have a standard array of powers to work with:
- psychic/magical (already covered)
- elemental (also magical)
- regeneration (explainable by a very high metabolism gone soft-science)
- healing (magical or psychic)
- flight (possibly telekinetic (psychic) or based on moving air or energy (magical/psychic), unless winged)
- energy projection (magical/psychic)
- strength, speed, durability (explained by metabolism again, or possibly physical density, again, to a ridiculous degree)
- transmutation (like Colossus, magical/psychic)
- technological (technological, of course)



So as you can clearly see, unless you're limited to just punching stuff, there's a pretty good chance your powers can be explained by you being a one-trick pony at using magic or psychic abilities. :p
Yes, You ARE a dork, I don't see what this has to do with the fly-ness of Awesome capes relative to stupid pointy-ass hats.
Wizard Hat
http://www.wardrobecostume.co.uk/admin/uploads/300/69_1143216_Wizard_Hat_300.jpg
Hmmmmm
Dunce Cap
http://nolamotion.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/dunce-cap.jpg
Coincidence? I THINK NOT!

bluestarultor
02-13-2010, 01:02 PM
Man, how long is it going to take for people to figure out I'm on the psychic end of things?

Seriously, screw mumbling spells and waving a wand around. I dress how I want and make reality my bitch just by thinking about it. That's WAY more badass. :cool:

Premmy
02-13-2010, 01:08 PM
A Super has to DO something to be of any consequence. once he starts DOING stuff, what he does is what matters, that's what makes him a Superhro, Wizard, Ninja, Pirate or whatever.

bluestarultor
02-13-2010, 01:17 PM
Fair enough. That almost makes me want to start back on my latest comic, but I really don't have the time to spare (I probably shouldn't even be on here right now :sweatdrop) and it's a coffee joke, so, eh.

Preturbed
02-13-2010, 01:56 PM
Yes, You ARE a dork, I don't see what this has to do with the fly-ness of Awesome capes relative to stupid pointy-ass hats.
Wizard Hat
IMAGE
Hmmmmm
Dunce Cap
IMAGE
Coincidence? I THINK NOT!

What about this? I think his cape is prettymuch as fly as any.

http://www.gobad.com/photogallery/ne_photos_03/super%20kirk.jpg

The Sevenshot Kid
02-13-2010, 01:59 PM
"Harry Dresden - Wizard
Lost items found. Paranormal Investigations.
Consulting. Advice. Reasonable Rates.
No love potions, endless purses, or
Other entertainment."

Wizards kick ass compared to all superheroes, unless you count Jesse Custer as a supe.

Premmy
02-13-2010, 01:59 PM
Still better than the hat.

Locke cole
02-13-2010, 03:04 PM
Speaking of Supes, who is one of the most powerful Supers, by the way. Anyone remember his other weakness, aside from Kryptonite?

THAT'S RIGHT. MAGIC.

ADVANTAGE: WIZARDS.

bluestarultor
02-13-2010, 03:22 PM
Speaking of Supes, who is one of the most powerful Supers, by the way. Anyone remember his other weakness, aside from Kryptonite?

THAT'S RIGHT. MAGIC.

ADVANTAGE: WIZARDS.

Well, as Barrel pointed out, Superman's powers essentially amount to being better than everything than anyone else, so with his ridiculous speed (which is just so he can be as good as the Flash, who is himself several orders of magnitude faster than light according to some poor fan who did the math DC didn't), he could easily take a person out before they could so much as start casting if the plot didn't dictate he needed to get roughed up a bit.

But then comparing other heroes to Supes is like comparing other DBZ fighters to Goku. His entire point is being the best, and if he's not the best in one thing, he has several other powers that give him the advantage, anyway.

Krylo
02-13-2010, 04:01 PM
Well, as Barrel pointed out, Superman's powers essentially amount to being better than everything than anyone else, so with his ridiculous speed (which is just so he can be as good as the Flash, who is himself several orders of magnitude faster than light according to some poor fan who did the math DC didn't), he could easily take a person out before they could so much as start casting if the plot didn't dictate he needed to get roughed up a bit.

But then comparing other heroes to Supes is like comparing other DBZ fighters to Goku. His entire point is being the best, and if he's not the best in one thing, he has several other powers that give him the advantage, anyway.

Contingency spells Blues. Wizards can do that. Lay dormant, activate on death.

Supes super speed punches a Wizard and he finds himself suddenly teleported to the middle of a red star and the Wizard is getting back up from a true resurrection.

Fenris
02-13-2010, 04:38 PM
I'd pick a superhero whose power is being a wizard.

I think I have a real winner here, guys.

Ecks
02-13-2010, 05:37 PM
We should give up trying to convince Prem.

He's just going to keep being a Super-biased Wizard-hater.

Seriously, his only retort seems to be "Capes are cooler than dorky hats! Instant powers versus moldy books and hokey religions! Fuck magic, plot power for the win!"

Also... where do Jedi fit into this? I don't want to class them as superheroes... mainly because you DO need to study to get total mastery of your powers... and Jedi aren't one-trick ponies either, especially when we look at the Dark Side.

And I'd rather be a Wizard than a Super... something about spacious robes just seems right to me... as opposed to HOMOEROTIC SPANDEX AND CAPES.

For the record, cloaks are cooler than capes.

bluestarultor
02-13-2010, 06:01 PM
We should give up trying to convince Prem.

He's just going to keep being a Super-biased Wizard-hater.

Seriously, his only retort seems to be "Capes are cooler than dorky hats! Instant powers versus moldy books and hokey religions! Fuck magic, plot power for the win!"

Also... where do Jedi fit into this? I don't want to class them as superheroes... mainly because you DO need to study to get total mastery of your powers... and Jedi aren't one-trick ponies either, especially when we look at the Dark Side.

And I'd rather be a Wizard than a Super... something about spacious robes just seems right to me... as opposed to HOMOEROTIC SPANDEX AND CAPES.

For the record, cloaks are cooler than capes.

I think it's pretty well established that Jedi are space wizards with laser swords. Specifically in that they have to gesture to activate their powers, which a psychic ability or superpower wouldn't require.

Locke cole
02-13-2010, 06:08 PM
Contingency spells Blues. Wizards can do that. Lay dormant, activate on death.

Supes super speed punches a Wizard and he finds himself suddenly teleported to the middle of a red star and the Wizard is getting back up from a true resurrection.

Alternatively, the spell Celerity. Activates immediately, gives the caster an action before anyone else can move. Also: Time Stop.

Lyaer
02-13-2010, 07:11 PM
Maybe not as iconic as the cloak or the robe-and-hat get-up, but capes are well within the realm of accepted wizard-wear. The difference between a wizard in a cape and a superhero in a cape, is that the wizard is legitimately expressing his or her fashion sense, whereas the superhero is just conforming to a stereotype. This is probably because superheroes suffer from crippling insecurity--further evidenced by the fact that most of them are afraid to show their real faces in public.

bluestarultor
02-13-2010, 07:21 PM
Maybe not as iconic as the cloak or the robe-and-hat get-up, but capes are well within the realm of accepted wizard-wear. The difference between a wizard in a cape and a superhero in a cape, is that the wizard is legitimately expressing his or her fashion sense, whereas the superhero is just conforming to a stereotype. This is probably because superheroes suffer from crippling insecurity--further evidenced by the fact that most of them are afraid to show their real faces in public.

Man, even Terry McGuinness is too awesome for a cape, and he's Batman.

Capes are like the worst accessory ever for a hero unless you don't expect to be moving at all. You can trip on them, get tangled in them, get them caught on corners and such, get grabbed by them, they create tons of drag in the air or water, are heavy when wet, aren't exactly light even when dry, provide no protection, and can easily get torn or otherwise wrecked in the thick of combat.

Lyaer
02-13-2010, 07:36 PM
All problems which are far more relevant to super superheroes than wizards, since if they play their cards right, wizards don't need to do all the jumping around that superheroes do in order to hold their own in a fight.

The Sevenshot Kid
02-13-2010, 07:47 PM
Harry Dresden is a badass of the highest order and I'm only on book three! I love superheroes but they got nothing on wizards wielding the raw forces of nature.

And where do vampires and werewolves fit into this?

Kyanbu The Legend
02-13-2010, 08:00 PM
Harry Dresden is a badass of the highest order and I'm only on book three! I love superheroes but they got nothing on wizards wielding the raw forces of nature.

And where do vampires and werewolves fit into this?
They both can fit into the Hero role and Wizard role. Though I've never seen any wizards that can turn into werewolves.

The Sevenshot Kid
02-13-2010, 08:28 PM
Consider certain werewolves as wizards that only know one spell and vampires as people who got caught in the right place at the right time.

I guess it all depends on what you're heroic fantasy is. Would you want to be recognized as a hero or would you rather work out of the public eye?

Doc ock rokc
02-13-2010, 09:20 PM
They both can fit into the Hero role and Wizard role. Though I've never seen any wizards that can turn into werewolves.

Mainly because some of the more powerful magics are generally focused through silver iron and other metals that would burn both vamps and weres hands / kill them.

Wigmund
02-13-2010, 09:36 PM
Capes are like the worst accessory ever for a hero unless you don't expect to be moving at all. You can trip on them, get tangled in them, get them caught on corners and such, get grabbed by them, they create tons of drag in the air or water, are heavy when wet, aren't exactly light even when dry, provide no protection, and can easily get torn or otherwise wrecked in the thick of combat.

NO CAPES! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M68ndaZSKa8)

Though the Incredibles do give a damn good reason to go with superheros.

Lyaer
02-14-2010, 01:52 AM
I think the general one-or-so trick pony nature of your average vampire, werewolf, or other comparable fantasy humanoid make them functionally more similar to the average superhero/villain than the average wizard, even if their powers are almost universally explained via magic.

bluestarultor
02-14-2010, 01:53 AM
I think the general one-or-so trick pony nature of your average vampire, werewolf, or other comparable fantasy humanoid make them functionally more similar to the average superhero/villain than the average wizard, even if their powers are almost universally explained via magic.

Which is explained if you look at my breakdown of the major superpowers. :p

Lyaer
02-14-2010, 02:16 PM
That it is.

Much as I've been rooting for wizards, I gotta say the one trick pony aspect is actually something I really like about superheroes. There's a lot that can be done with the self-made mini god type that dominates wizardom, but thematically speaking, giving someone one or two specific "powers" really opens a thematic goldmine. Though of course so does giving someone pseudo-omnipotence and a beard.

Also the way they overcome obstacles is a totally different dynamic. Wizards are working with a theoretically limitless arsenal and have to choose which ability will be most applicable and least costly in addressing a given problem. Superheroes (with obvious exceptions) are forced to solve problems with the much more limited resources at their disposal, and thus be more likely to need to think outside the box. To use a (manly) tool metaphor, the wizard asks "do I use the hammer or the wrench?" whereas the superhero asks "can I hammer that with a wrench?"

Ecks
02-14-2010, 07:37 PM
Though I've never seen any wizards that can turn into werewolves.

Remus Lupin, Harry Potter series.

The Sevenshot Kid
02-14-2010, 08:06 PM
This is the big question: Which one can get killed by a man with a gun?

Premmy
02-14-2010, 08:08 PM
BAM!

Doc ock rokc
02-14-2010, 08:46 PM
This is the big question: Which one can get killed by a man with a gun?

Well most wizards are paranoid little shits so they would have wards out the wazoo (or Their magic effects the technology of the gun so much that it doesn't work)

While a lot of them are the "Brick" virility they generally not always so. then you have the "regens" who take it like a man. the acrobats that Do flips and manage to dodge fire (yet can't dodge fists as easily?). then Telekinetic can usually stop some of them (not always though). then you get teleporters/portal makers. telepathic ones make you think they are in one spot but really in the other (like a foot to the left or something) then their's Timestopers or superspeeders that make the bullets move as fast as a snail.
Then you have the same thing for heroes as well...

bluestarultor
02-14-2010, 08:46 PM
That it is.

Much as I've been rooting for wizards, I gotta say the one trick pony aspect is actually something I really like about superheroes. There's a lot that can be done with the self-made mini god type that dominates wizardom, but thematically speaking, giving someone one or two specific "powers" really opens a thematic goldmine. Though of course so does giving someone pseudo-omnipotence and a beard.

Also the way they overcome obstacles is a totally different dynamic. Wizards are working with a theoretically limitless arsenal and have to choose which ability will be most applicable and least costly in addressing a given problem. Superheroes (with obvious exceptions) are forced to solve problems with the much more limited resources at their disposal, and thus be more likely to need to think outside the box. To use a (manly) tool metaphor, the wizard asks "do I use the hammer or the wrench?" whereas the superhero asks "can I hammer that with a wrench?"

Actually, it usually boils down to "wow, this looks like a time for Wrench Man!" only all the time, and a wrench somehow can do everything from wrenching in a bolt to curing cancer.

Actually, that's not fair. A lot of superheroes are carrying around full toolboxes, or if they aren't, rather than a wrench, they're packing dynamite, which solves most problems pretty easily.

This is the big question: Which one can get killed by a man with a gun?

Depending on the superhero, most of them. Only a couple superheroes are invulnerable, or even just bulletproof (I can only think of 5 off the top of my head: Supes, M, Colossus, Juggernaut, and Diamond Lil). This is discounting healing factors, which adds most of Marvel depending on who's writing, id est how fast they actually heal, but only comfortably Agent X, Wolvie, Sabes, and Deadpool. Of course, then you get people in like Supes and M, who is actually only better than Supes because she has a more interesting personality (being a spoiled rich-bitch isn't necessarily an improvement, but...), who basically get whatever powers the plot needs and the question really becomes whether they're going to beat the guy who shot them brutally or take the gun away and call them a bad, bad person.

The Sevenshot Kid
02-14-2010, 09:05 PM
Let me rephrase that: Which one is most likely to get killed by a guy with a gun?

bluestarultor
02-14-2010, 09:09 PM
Let me rephrase that: Which one is most likely to get killed by a guy with a gun?

Superheroes, actually. Most wizards don't come in contact with guns, where many superheroes have been killed by bullets or other means. I was actually pretty pissed to learn they killed Synch off with a bomb for no good reason. He was one of the more interesting characters of the team.

Edit: I just realized I probably took that question the wrong way.

In terms of who's more likely to actually die in a firefight, it really depends on the source. In an RP, it's a lot more likely, where in a linear story, main characters are likely to survive to preserve the cast. Given superheroes are new to the RP scene, historically, more wizards have died to things like arrows, but in terms of the survivability of either side, a competent wizard is just as likely to not only survive a firefight, but also to be a key member in winning it given the setting. Given that in most swords and sorcery settings, the characters don't have the benefit of high technology or innate superhuman traits to fall back on, it says a lot more for the overall competence of a wizard to be able to survive so well, where supers each have a defining trait that specifically stops them from being killed with few other merits.

In terms of the numbers in linear stories, wizards probably tend to survive better because most teams only have one of them, or if there are more, they each have an important specialty. Supers die more often because they're ALL endowed with powers and the loss of one is less detrimental to the workings of the team. While they don't die a LOT, necessarily, when they do die, they're often quickly replaced if they're a big name, but not before people have to sit around and realize they were actually worth something, and small-timers tend to just be forgotten. If the team wizard is killed, it puts a much bigger burden on the team and they SORELY miss not having them, and if they ARE replaced, it's usually after a long wait, because there's an inherent need for skill and trust in that situation.

Ergo, wizards, in story settings, are less likely to get killed, and if they are killed, it's much more important.

Lyaer
02-14-2010, 11:53 PM
From a more practical perspective, the wizard is not, on average, assumed to be particularly agile or resistant to bodily harm, and some of them are downright frail. If the wizard is prepared to ward against bullets, then he or she will most likely survive, but superheroes are more are more likely to have a power that can neutralize bullets, and since most superheroes spend a lot of time in fast-paced combat, they are more likely to be able to react in time, even if their powers aren't relevant. So a wizard who expects a gunfight will probably survive one, but otherwise, I'd give the superhero better odds. Unless the wizard can heal, in which case the wizard needs to take a lethal hit that will work faster than whatever healing technique, and then the odds even out a little more.

On an individual level, there are both wizards and superheroes that are basically invulnerable, so in that case either. Likewise each category has its weaklings. If you want to survive, you'd be better served to look at the ability set instead of just the label.

Blues - Fair enough, on superheroes having a whole toolbox, but in that case I'd put wizards having a shed. And yes, superheroes don't always live up to the ideal of ingenuity, especially since most of them spend all their time beating the crap out of eachother (contrasted with the necessary intellectual inclination of the wizard), but in theory, fewer resources facilitate finding more applications for those resources.

bluestarultor
02-15-2010, 12:48 AM
Fair enough on your part, as well. :J

On the other hand, many supers have powers with a broad range of utility. Superman is the obvious example, but take Wolvie, for instance. He's got an insanely high regeneration rate for a defensive power and his claws for an offensive one. That's really all he needs. Cyclops has his eye beams, which, while they aren't versatile, allow him to blast stuff from outside the fray, allowing him some defense, as well. And psychic character is going to have both offensive and defensive uses for their range of the psychic spectrum. Hell, Empath had empathy, a normally very passive power, and was able to reverse it to make people feel however he wanted. Instant suicidal despair much?

Then you have DC, whose prime examples are a guy so fast he can outrun the metaphysical personification of death itself, Superman, a guy with a literal do-anything ring, and, well, Aquaman, among others. But you have to remember that Aquaman's powers are much more useful in his home territory.

To put it this way, most superheroes have powers of such utility they don't need anything else, or if they do, they generally have it. Or often have it, anyway, just because.

Wizards, on the other hand, don't get nearly that kind of utility out of any one spell, generally speaking. They have a more rigid structure to work with, so any one spell is going to be all the more situational.

So I'll agree that wizards have a shed of tools. On the other hand, for a wizard, a hammer is a hammer. For a superhero, the hammer also has a built-in screwdriver and measuring tape in most cases. And then they also have a wrench with an embedded level and a saw with a carpenter's square built in.

The Sevenshot Kid
02-15-2010, 02:27 AM
So wizards are more likely to die from a gunshot? They do tend to be more vulnerable and sometimes have trouble running multiple spells. Not being able to cast a shield spell at the drop of a hat would leave them open.

Then this totally cements their badass-itude! They'll go out knowing that its very possible for them to be killed. Superheroes don't really do that because they're safe for the most part.

Geminex
02-15-2010, 02:48 AM
This is turning out to be almost as bad as pirates vs. ninjas.
And speaking of which, what about a super-pirate-hero vs. a ninja wizard?

Yrcrazypa
02-15-2010, 03:42 AM
Hmm, I think that would be a draw. Pirates are way cooler and better than ninjas, but wizards are way cooler and better than superheroes, unless we are talking wussy wizards like Harry Potter ones.

Amake
02-15-2010, 03:43 AM
I don't know any pirate superheroes except Nightcrawler, and no ninja wizards except that one in Dr McNinja.

Meanwhile, about making a wizard bulletproof, I always thought it'd be funny to get a Monk to level 20 and then multiclassing to Wizard. Possibly followed by Cleric and Druid. And then turn to a Lich. I know, that's eighty levels, any character at that point would be ridiculously broken. But anyway, you get what looks like a fragile wizard until you grab his staff and he punches you in the brain.

Lyaer
02-15-2010, 09:27 AM
Blues - Pretty much my point, yeah. Whatever way you look at it, supers will get more out of a given tool than wizards. Though of course given the right kind of magic system and the inclination to practice a lot with a few favorites techniques, there's nothing necessarily stopping a wizards from doing that sort of thing.

A pirate is unlikely too add much in the way of abilities to either a superhero or a wizard. A pirate wizard might be a little more of a brawler, but if I were a pirate wizard I would probably rely a bit heavily on my magic, brain, and the fact that my crewmates thought I was the most useful thing since the lever. In which case my hand to hand skills still might atrophy.

Ninja skills already are not uncommon among superheroes, many of whom rely on stealth and agility anyway. But a wizard with ninja abilities has just mitigated his or her key weakness-the physical one. Unlike pirates, ninjas are defined chiefly by their skillset, so a wizard-ninja must have earned that label by adequately practicing both disciplines. You've just created someone who can drop a nuke without being seen, and quickly dodge attacks even while transitioning from a state of meditation. So the only one to get a significant advantage from multiclassing here is the already superior wizard.

The Sevenshot Kid
02-15-2010, 12:57 PM
I thought ninjas were wizards. It's the only logical explanation.

Locke cole
02-15-2010, 04:59 PM
This is turning out to be almost as bad as pirates vs. ninjas.
And speaking of which, what about a super-pirate-hero vs. a ninja wizard?

Well, Superhero Pirates includes pretty much the whole of One Piece's characters, who beat pretty much everything, bugt Ninja Wizards are capable of walking into Mordor, so I dunno.

Doc ock rokc
02-15-2010, 08:09 PM
I thought ninjas were wizards. It's the only logical explanation.
Yes and no. Ninjas can technically be considered wizards in some respects but not visa versa

bluestarultor
02-15-2010, 08:24 PM
Yes and no. Ninjas can technically be considered wizards in some respects but not visa versa

Well, it kind of depends on who's enchanting the ninja scrolls and whether a ninja actually has valid powers outside of them. I consider scrolls more as just another trap, no more wizardly than a smoke bomb or throwing star.

Even if it's a magical smoke bomb or a throwing star that always returns to the thrower, that doesn't make the owner an actual magic-user.

Premmy
02-15-2010, 08:25 PM
When in the purple hell did ninja get magic scrolls?

Doc ock rokc
02-15-2010, 09:31 PM
When in the purple hell did ninja get magic scrolls?

http://www.newgrounds.com/collection_assets/0/title_231.gif
and a few myths related to how a ninja hid all his gear

Premmy
02-15-2010, 09:47 PM
When in the orange Hell did Naruto become about ninja?

BitVyper
02-15-2010, 09:53 PM
When in the purple hell did ninja get magic scrolls?

Ninja myth has pretty much always had them as mystics of some sort, usually descended from magic monks. And Naruto is certainly not the first place where they've had magic scrolls.

When in the orange Hell did Naruto become about ninja?

While it may not be particularly accurate, Naruto weaves a lot of ninja mythology into its story. Of course, the whole thing went to hell anyway, but still.

Doc ock rokc
02-15-2010, 10:10 PM
And Naruto is certainly not the first place where they've had magic scrolls. Yeah was trying to set up that as a joke since blue made the comment on the scrolls



While it may not be particularly accurate, Naruto weaves a lot of ninja mythology into its story. Of course, the whole thing went to hell anyway, but still.
yeah it got a little to into itself

Wigmund
02-15-2010, 11:54 PM
The baddies in Ninja Scroll were packing some weird magic shit. Though I don't know if they qualify as wizards or supers.

bluestarultor
02-16-2010, 12:03 AM
On ninja scrolls, pretty sure Shadow used them in FF6, and he was largely fairly traditional in his abilities and stuff. Given that and a few other good sources (not Naruto, I said GOOD sources!), it became pretty clear to me over time that it's just kind of part of the lore.

Nuklear Waste
02-16-2010, 10:07 AM
I gave it serious thought, and I choose superhero because I am not too fond with preparing spells daily or carrying around smell components. And ninja have always been cooler than pirates. Always.

Now, here is the question I have been asking myself since childhood:
Ghostbuster or Man in Black?

Locke cole
02-21-2010, 01:29 PM
On ninja scrolls, pretty sure Shadow used them in FF6, and he was largely fairly traditional in his abilities and stuff. Given that and a few other good sources (not Naruto, I said GOOD sources!), it became pretty clear to me over time that it's just kind of part of the lore.

You say that like Final Fantasy ninjas haven't been using scrolls since Final Fantasy V.

And have you forgotten Final Fantasy I ninjas? Limited Black Magic was their defining trait!

Speaking of Final Fantasy I, let's talk about its wizards:

Being a mage is enough, but when you're a Black Wizard, you can teleport anywhere, turn your enemies to stone, get strong enough to kill dragons with a knife, banish your enemies to another dimension, reap their very souls, incinerate them with nuclear fusion, or stop time.

If you're a White Wizard, you can banish any magic, restore the dead to life perfectly, smite your foes with the power of God, or ward off death itself.

All with a word.

BitVyper
02-21-2010, 02:20 PM
I am not too fond with preparing spells daily or carrying around smell components.

Y'don't need none of that. You need headology. Just use whatever y'got. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76QcibRlyA0)

Locke cole
02-21-2010, 02:45 PM
And now I think I'll just give a rant from a mid-power wizard, spoken while he was simultaneously snapping a thick wooden table in half with the sheer power of the rant itself:

"I am capable of manipulating matter and energy on a subatomic level by speaking. A mere flick of my finger is sufficient to alter the gravitational pull of the planet. I shelve physics texts under "Fiction" in my personal library. I consider the Laws of Thermodynamics loose guideline, at best. In short, I am graping the reins of the universe's carriage, and every morning I wake up, look to the havens, and shout, "Giddy up, boy!" You may never grasp the complexities of what I do, but at least have the common courtesy to feign something other than slack-jawed oblivion in my presence. I, sir, am a wizard, and I break more natural laws before breakfast than of which you are even aware."