Aliens among us.....

[Tev]

So, we all know that conspiracy theories abound when it comes to wondering what's out there. Lately even Stephen Hawking has got into the mix about alien speculation and dire warnings of what may come if we attract enough attention to our little mud-ball of a planet. Do you have a favorite pet theory? Do you think the little green men walk among us? What about the lizard people that rule from the shadows?

I found this (http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/153063) fun little article in what I can only assume is a standard internet tabloid today. If there are intelligent aliens out there I think that this would be a rather fun way for them to be sneaking around.

Then again if they were intelligent at all they would leave us to our own devices and park a bockade just outside the moon's orbit to make sure we don't stray too far.

[Hanuman]

As much as it would be convenient to believe the whole warp driver vulcans first contact blah blah EVERYONE LETS BE FRIENDS "thing" I think as a species we have out heads SO far up our own asses that this is really not all that probable.

I mean, consider how a species would be changed, culturally, if they evolved with another similar yet lesser developed self aware species, or if THEY were the lesser species and had to rise up, OR if there were 30 different self aware species on their planet and they had to fight, tooth and claw to survive all the way from the ocean to space travel.

Or consider a microcosm in our own society... sure we have people we look up to, but we also have stupid hics driving around in pickup trucks setting off firecrackers and shooting their guns into the air because they like the sound. Do you think one of those people, on their own, could build a pickup truck? Compare that to a species who are not REALLY evolved enough for spacetravel yet they still BUY it.

I think we should be both proud of, and wary of, our capacity for cultural uniqueness in the universe.

[TDK]

I don't really have an opinion on aliens, I just think Stephen Hawking is full of crap.

[Azisien]

Among us, seems unlikely.

Buzzing around the universe, probably razing and nuking each other just like we are/might be, seems likely!

[Revising Ocelot]

*sees Azisien's avatar*


The aliens aren't among us yet. They're still hanging around up there, smug and secure that we're unaware of them, and that-

ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL.

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/4900/collectorgeneraljpg.png

Your form is weak. We are the Harbinger of your perfection.

[Azisien]

We are still forming a consensus on these flying cockroaches. 2203494827 platforms suggest RAID, 2203494826 platforms suggest facepalm.

[bluestarultor]

Frankly, with how war-like we are and the fact that any alien race that comes out here would be advanced beyond our wildest dreams, I really don't see any solution but mass death. If they're peaceful, the nukes we send up to greet them aren't likely to make a good impression and they might just decide we're nasty little critters and the universe is better off without us. If they're war-like, well, we're just as fucked, only they fire the first nuke. I mean, at best, they'd maybe keep a few of us around as pets either way, with the peaceful ones likely keeping more of us, but the entire concept of us becoming equal with them relies damn heavily on there being something like Starfleet posting rules that say they can't interfere with developing worlds and then coming to greet us when we're ready. Technologically, that could happen in the next decade, but socially, we're pretty much boned.

[tacticslion]

but the entire concept of us becoming equal with them relies damn heavily on there being something like Starfleet posting rules that say they can't interfere with developing worlds and then coming to greet us when we're ready.

... and also someone who cares and is scrupulous enough actually watching to make sure they do so. I mean, how much crap would do people get away with on their jobs now, just because the boss isn't watching. If new species are "common" to said race, and we seem just like the violent klingons, there's really no value to them not to wipe us out, and whoever would give the order might consider themselves a hero as they went on military tribunal. That said we can't even presume they think like us. Can we presume that aliens are all "enlightenment and serenity"? No. We can't. We can't presume they're all war-like, either, but if one believes in the evolutionary process, it seems they must be to have survived. We really can't presume anything: do they think like us? Do they have a term for "war" or even "peace"? Can they understand the concept of outright, purposeful "lying" or even outright purposeful "truth"? Do they think in terms of their species, in terms of themselves as individuals, in terms of themselves as groups within their species (we do), or in terms of themselves as a singular species among many? Do they even classify creatures according to "species"? What of their religion(s), if they have them? Human languages have concepts that don't translate - we have ideas that simply don't work with other human mindsets, so how could we presume alien mindsets work similarly enough to communicate properly?

That said: how can we even be sure that alien life works on our terms? I mean, if its an arsenic-based life-form (a theoretical possiblity at super-cold tempuratures) than us living could be a hostile act - our body heat could cause untold damage just being near them (even as we were killed by their endless cold). To be super nerdy, we'd be to them like theoretical "fire elementals" would be to us. Cell-phone communication would be like neutron-bombs, and laser sattelites could be death-rays.

Is it possible that there is alien life? Yeah - there's a lot of space out there. Is it likely we'll meet them. Nah. Our star will probably get to us (either by solar flare or sputtering out) before they do or before we get to them.

I also wrote, like, a three-page paper on alien life and its potential problems in coming and showing up here. I am not posting it at this time.

Edit: I do wish to clarify: "possible" is very different from "probable". I have no illusions that aliens are probably out there, only that they are possibly out there.

[stabbity death]

I have a bet going with a good friend that we're going to find alien life before alien life finds us.

[Steel Shadow]

I think in general we give aliens a little too much credit. The universe is a big place, so it's likely there's at least some form of life out there. It may even be radically different from what we're used to thinking of as life. But given the universe's bigness and such, the likelyhood of it finding us is as likely as us findnig it. And then there's it reaching us, which would mean it has incredibly advanced tech, compared to us at the moment. I'm not even sold on space travel being realistically possible.

Plus, holy crap, do you guys know how difficult it was for life on earth to reach the point it has at the moment? The amount of times the clock was reset is disturbingly high. Even if there is life out there, the odds are very much in favour of it not being as lucky as we were. Who knows, we might well be the most advanced race in the universe. Well there's got to be one somewhere.

On the other hand, if there are aliens zipping around the place, I don't think we're going to be that interesting to them, aside from the odd lab experiement. Why even bother blowing us up?

[bluestarultor]

@ lion: Really, though, you do have to think of this. Either there is other life in our nearly-endless universe or there isn't. Either way, it's mindblowing.

I personally think that life is nothing special. I mean, it's special enough to be alive, but statistically speaking, we're on a planet orbiting a medium-sized star that's really not unique in any way and just happen to be in a band where life as we know it is supported, and that band is, quite frankly, a lot wider than people give it credit for. If it weren't for the terrible conditions, life probably could develop on Venus. Some say even a planet similar to Mars. Mars loses out a lot due to its thin atmosphere, really. Pump in enough greenhouse gas and give it a magnetic field so solar wind doesn't constantly blow it away and you're set, speaking entirely out of my ass.

On the other hand, another thing I think is necessary for life, for obvious reasons, is an ecosystem, and in an ecosystem, you will likely always have the basic three items of:
1. organisms who collect energy from outside sources (plants, algae, etc.),
2. things that eat those (cows, fungus, etc.), and
3. things that eat those (humans, wolves, etc.).

That's a basic ecology right there. It's nice to THINK that maybe there's only one and you'll have intelligent plants running around (literally or not), but when you consider that resources are limited in terms of light, heat, etc., it makes sense for some to go cannibal somehow, or at least grow bigger to hog the resources. Out of any scenario, an all-plant world is second-most likely, but once you get herbivores in there, competition over resources is pretty much going to demand some of them start eating each other.

Once you get predators in the mix, you get predatory competition and the basis of war. Simply put, if any alien race is fully peaceful, they'll have had eons to transcend that somehow. Eons in which they'll develop technology beyond our comprehension, for better or worse.

[Bells]

And once again i would like to point you guys to Dr Neil Degrasse Tyson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQhNZENMG1o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfAzaDyae-k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xag3oOzvU68

[BitVyper]

I'm of the opinion that if anything, we'll be the hyper advanced aliens who seed the galaxy with life, and leave stores of ancient knowledge for those who follow us to find after we ascend to become energy beings.

[bluestarultor]

I'm of the opinion that if anything, we'll be the hyper advanced aliens who seed the galaxy with life, and leave stores of ancient knowledge for those who follow us to find after we ascend to become energy beings.

I'm of the opinion that, quite frankly, life is not going to venture out of its own solar system until it essentially learns to break physics. Space flight sounds nifty until you consider just how far apart everything is and how long it takes even light to travel that distance. Best-case scenario, any crews from even the closest solar systems are born several generations in space and it takes them upwards of six years to communicate one round of back and forth with their home as they approach us. That's not even accounting for fuel, although due to a lack of friction, so long as they're just taking a shot in the dark, once they get going, they don't need any additional impulse. They still need food and heat, though.

Basically what I'm saying is I'm a killjoy and that our best chance is to find a wormhole somewhere, assuming we don't just zip right by it. I'm not sure if those are fixed in absolute or relative space according to current theory, but if it's absolute, it's absolutely useless given the speeds at which galaxies travel.

[Brainmeats]

I'm going to say its possible that there is some form of life on other planets. Whether that be some strange space fern or little green men, who knows. The universe is too big for there not to be something out there.

Will we find it? Doubtful. Best thing we'll find is water on Mars with a microbe in it. Nothing complex.

[Kim]

If there are aliens, I'd like to believe it goes the The Day the Earth Stood Still route. "You better knock this shit the fuck off before you start exploring space, or we will destroy you."

[Amake]

I like The Invisibles' theory where those grey space aliens who star in 90% of all abduction stories are actually time aliens preparing us to become them.

I'm however positive there is no ancient conspiracy like the Freemasons secretly running the world. In this day and age, you could simply not get away with keeping secrets on that scale. All it would take to destroy a secret empire is one fallible human with Internet access naming names and places.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I've had some talks about this at conferences I've been to, common theory banded around is that high intelligence is pretty statisically unlikely when compared to the lifetime of planets (in conditions that would sustain life), basically they break it into a set of evolutionary "leaps" or "hurdles" with a speculated time necessary for that compared to the sun. To develop technology to get away from your sun before it eats you is pretty unlikely.
That aside it's hard to speculate, people have raised idea that civilisations may be likely to destroy themselves before they get there.
Also they all invisible and tentacled.

[Funka Genocide]

Eh, seem to me if we figure out sustainable inter-galactic flight we'd get this whole mortality thing nipped in the bud as well. Then we could just float endlessly looking for new stuff to make friends with/make fun of/eat/have sex with.

I mean conceptually its not that big of a leap. There are discernible factors which lead to the evolution of life, you just recreate those factors using your wonderful galaxy machine as you flit about on your star chariot filled with cheetos and booze. If you get bored, make a kid and eat a bullet.

THE FUTURE!

(Plus everybody goes all apeshit with the tentacle monster plant thing. I get the feeling that life is some form of physical constant in the universe, and barring a few minor variations here and there it probably follows similar trends wherever it arises. Just like planets are roughly spherical and stars are hot, intelligent life is probably endothermic, mostly hairless and possessed of opposable thumbs. They might have weird hairstyles though.)

[krogothwolf]

Then we could just float endlessly looking for new stuff to make friends with/make fun of/eat/have sex with.
You totally forgot make war with and try to systematically slaughter.

[Funka Genocide]

Well thats sort of subsumed into eating, since I'd only advocate whole-sale slaughter if the life form in question were delicious.

guess it could count as getting fucked though.

[krogothwolf]

Bah, you know someone's going to want to destroy the aliens for no other reason then because they look funny.

[Funka Genocide]

You know what looks funny? Babies. And nobody wants to destroy babies right?

My logic is infallible.

EDIT: New theory, space travel is all done through data transfer and technological possession. We scan the universe for life and then transmit our consciousness into new, alien vessels, then begin to recreate our technology and society using the strange crab hands or deer hoofs we are stuck with until such a point as we can create aritificial human bodies, transfer our crab selfs into our new human selfs and then start all over.

Man I'm good.

[krogothwolf]

You know what looks funny? Babies. And nobody wants to destroy babies right?


What are you talking about? Evil People Destroy Babies all the time, because they are EVIL!

Man, Space Travel is going to be done through the warp, where the creatures of the immaterium have a chance to destroy us, corrupt us or enslave us through deadly abilities. We will travel at the whim of the all powerful Emperor. We will purge the xenos, burn the heretic and cleanse the mutant. We will be guarded by super-humans who are bred for war, doing battle with those who worship chaos and the xenos who populate the universe.

In the Grim Future, there is only WAR!!!!!!!!!!

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

It's a double edged sword really. The universe is Big, mind bogglingly big. So big it cannot adequately be described in words. Full of so many trillions of stars and hundreds of trillions of possible life filled planets that it's almost undeniable that there is life out there, in some form or another.

But on the other side, the universe is Big, so mind bogglingly big that to go anywhere beyond a couple of your nearst stars will take decades, if not hundreds of years. The idea of trying to fly about the universe exploring all its hidden nooks and crannies and meeting new species is almost laughable. Sure there may be life out there, but we sure as hell aren't ever going to meet it, even long range communication would be stupidly hard.

Cracked said it best in one of their articles (http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-scientific-theories-head-explode/);


Right now, on your computer screen, are approximately 10,000 galaxies.

Each of those galaxies contains anywhere from ten million to one trillion stars.

The average star is roughly a million times the size of Earth.

And yet, with all that junk, the Universe is more than 90 percent empty space.

All of that, in this tiny photo. A photo that took 400 orbits and 800 exposures to take.

And the kicker? The photo covers one thirteen-millionth of the entire night sky.


And then, a little further down;


So all that shit we just said about how big the universe is (at least 90 billion light years)? Forget it. That’s small beans. The Cosmological Horizon is here to make your day a whole lot more complicated. Since we can only observe stellar bodies that have had some effect on us (usually bombarding us with light), there is an outer limit to what we can see of the universe. Hence, the “observable universe.” What about the rest? The parts of the universe beyond our Starcraft-style fog of war? Well, according to some math we have no interest in going into, the size of the “actual” universe is so large that if the universe we just described (the impossibly, mind-bogglingly large one) were the size of a quarter, the actual universe would be the size of the Earth. Daaaaaaaamn.


Yeah...

So unless we or another alien species somehow learns to rape physics to such a decree that they effectively becomes infinitely powerful gods in order to travel about the universe with some sort of relative ease, then no, we won't be meeting any aliens, ever, let alone having to worry about how to commicate the infinite complexities of our differing societies to avert anhilation at the hands of the other. So don't sweat it guys!

[krogothwolf]

I am so ready to make physics my bitch now!

[Geminex]

The aliens are obviously amongst us already and moderate this forum. While eating baby sandwiches.

[Aldurin]

We are the aliens, or at least will be soon.

It will be mistaken for a plague that turns us into "monsters" when it only evolves us. The interactive prophecy Resistance: Fall of Man details it best, though the period predicted is roughly 60 years off.

So when it comes, will you die or evolve?

[Overcast]

Bah baby is never any good unless you grow them yourself.

But I also would rather we be the most advanced life form in the universe who eventually does some terrible thing to the laws that govern reality so we can dick around the universe. I prefer this idea because I am human, and being the top of the food chain is good. I am the sort who might just wipe out certain groups before they become a proper threat and hope they don't go all Uchuu Senkan Yamato on our asses. Safety is far better than morality.

[Funka Genocide]

You know, you can conquer the galaxy with a ballistic skill of 3!

[krogothwolf]

You know, you can conquer the galaxy with a ballistic skill of 3!

Damn straight, all you need to be able to do is pound the other in close combat and have decent saves!

[mauve]

I always figured that contact with alien lifeforms will end up with 70-80% of one or both parties being wiped out by the bacteria or viruses travelling along with them; either with us dying from their Space Common Cold germs hovering around in their ship's air supply or on their clothes, or them dying from exposure to earth influenza or pneumonia or chicken pox or something. Either way, there'd probably be mass destruction from lack of immunity on either side.

A rather disappointing way to end an intergalactic meeting.

[Overcast]

I figure both sides would be prepared for this, that is why whenever we dissect the greys we do it in a sterile environment wearing hazard suits. Also if they aren't in the least bit prepared for another planet's diseases then they are not quite up to speed on transuniversal exploration and we'll probably just take their stuff when they die and reverse engineer it.

[Lumenskir]

I always figured that contact with alien lifeforms will end up with 70-80% of one or both parties being wiped out by the bacteria or viruses travelling along with them; either with us dying from their Space Common Cold germs hovering around in their ship's air supply or on their clothes, or them dying from exposure to earth influenza or pneumonia or chicken pox or something. Either way, there'd probably be mass destruction from lack of immunity on either side.
Now while I may be pulling this fact from cobbled bits of random History and Discovery programs, but wouldn't this just plain not work based on the fact that germs and whatnot adapt to particular DNA strains and are basically inert if used on the wrong kinds? I don't think my dog can catch chickenpox, to say nothing of Dignitary Glorgax.

[bluestarultor]

Now while I may be pulling this fact from cobbled bits of random History and Discovery programs, but wouldn't this just plain not work based on the fact that germs and whatnot adapt to particular DNA strains and are basically inert if used on the wrong kinds? I don't think my dog can catch chickenpox, to say nothing of Dignitary Glorgax.

Some diseases can make the species jump. AIDS did from primates to humans and now there's even a feline version. Those are just the ones I know of. There may be more.

Other examples include bird flu, mad cow/chronic wasting, and foot-and-mouth.

[mauve]

There were also a handful of cases in which dogs and cats caught swine flu this past winter, from contact with infected humans.

But true, that does make sense that it wouldn't be as widespread a massacre then.

So I guess only 20% of us would die of horrible unknown space disease! I feel better!

[bluestarultor]

There were also a handful of cases in which dogs and cats caught swine flu this past winter, from contact with infected humans.

But true, that does make sense that it wouldn't be as widespread a massacre then.

So I guess only 20% of us would die of horrible unknown space disease! I feel better!

Well, not really. Once it makes the species jump, it can transfer among the other members of that species freely from what I know.

[Geminex]

But there's a difference between a species-jump and a jump between kingdoms. Whatever "aliens" will look like, biologically, I very much doubt that their form is similar to ours, and, as such, I doubt they'd be vulnerable to earth diseases, which are specialized on infecting a certain type of organism.
Not to mention that said aliens would prooobably have the necessary technology and ingeneuity to prevent getting infected.

[bluestarultor]

But there's a difference between a species-jump and a jump between kingdoms. Whatever "aliens" will look like, biologically, I very much doubt that their form is similar to ours, and, as such, I doubt they'd be vulnerable to earth diseases, which are specialized on infecting a certain type of organism.
Not to mention that said aliens would prooobably have the necessary technology and ingeneuity to prevent getting infected.

Well, there is that, but assuming they're of Animalia and have a carbon-based double helix structure, it's still possible a jump could happen.

Granted jumps are not by any means the norm when it comes to diseases. Most of them stay put. It's just that the ones that do are generally doozies.

[mauve]

Sooooo.... most of us would die from only ONE MASSIVELY DEADLY horrible unknown space disease instead of FIFTY SLIGHTLY LESS DANGEROUS unknown space diseases, while the aliens would survive with no problems thanks to a space hazmat suit and a dose of space penicillin before the invasion. Works for me!

[bluestarultor]

Reminds me of a short story where a guy gets talking to a space bear and finds out that the common cold was their attempt to wipe out humanity thousands of years ago. XD

Really good one. "Nasty, Brutish, And..." by Harry Turtledove.

[Thadius]

You silly humans and your silly 'intelligent life other than us in our UNIverse' way of thinking.

Why bother only searching your universe? There are plenty of other universes out there if you know how to breach the barriers, filled with alternate versions of you. No need to gamble with checking other planets, just breach a random universe, and if it's not the one you want, try another!

[bluestarultor]

You silly humans and your silly 'intelligent life other than us in our UNIverse' way of thinking.

Why bother only searching your universe? There are plenty of other universes out there if you know how to breach the barriers, filled with alternate versions of you. No need to gamble with checking other planets, just breach a random universe, and if it's not the one you want, try another!

But that's boring. All you need is a gravity phone on each end and you can talk like it's a local call. Where's your sense of adventure? :P

[Overcast]

Indeed, no matter how many times I meet me I'm still a human and for the most part the most fun I can get out of other me is an evening of deviance probably very much like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAD7ZJ6UPeg).

I want strange psychologies, anatomies, histories, cultures. I want to see how civilization develops when you aren't like one of us. If it is even all that different.

[krogothwolf]

Man, going around and destroying earth in other universes gets boring after awhile, I want to start murdering damn xenos!

[Thadius]

Are you sure about that?

Any race that exists out there that is capable of crossing vast interstellar distances to meet us would also be capable of quite a lot of other things. Destroying all life on earth and rendering it inhabitable would be a trifle to such beings.

And nobody said they would have to be nice. Like, at all. Hell they might do such things for fun or to relieve stress.

[bluestarultor]

Are you sure about that?

Any race that exists out there that is capable of crossing vast interstellar distances to meet us would also be capable of quite a lot of other things. Destroying all life on earth and rendering it inhabitable would be a trifle to such beings.

And nobody said they would have to be nice. Like, at all. Hell they might do such things for fun or to relieve stress.

Hey, at least a few of us might survive as pets or in zoos. It's a better shot than our own sun is going to give us.

[krogothwolf]

Hey, at least a few of us might survive as pets or in zoos. It's a better shot than our own sun is going to give us.

Coward! If they're like that, I'm going to make sure I choke at least one of them before I die.

Personally, I hope we meet a friendly type of alien. Then we can storm their craft and take it over and bring war to them! Burning the Universe in the process!

[Overcast]

Of course I'm sure, I already said that I wanted US to be the exact creatures you are talking about. A being does not need to have interstellar travel to have all the things I want to see in alien life. They just need to be alien life.

I'm tired of being told that in the grand scheme of things that humanity is so small, I want us to be Cuthulu this time.

[bluestarultor]

Who said anything about cowardice? So long as the species survives, there is time to take over the universe. :P

[krogothwolf]

Who said anything about cowardice? So long as the species survives, there is time to take over the universe. :P

You know what, this makes me think of the south park episode Cancelled...honestly I can actually see that being true. The greatest reality show ever! EARTH!