Listia! It's like eBay but not!

[Nique]

So this is kind of neat. Listia (http://www.listia.com) is a site where you bid on items for (more or less) free. Using a system of credits or points which you can earn by participating in the site and listing your own items for free. It's basically 'trade now/ trade later'.

I've been using it and had pretty good luck so far. If it sounds like something you'd be into you can go here --> SIGNUP ONLY CLICK HERE IF YOU REALLY WANT TO DO THIS! BIG WARNING LETTER CAUSE POS IS BIG FAT JERK WHO HATES FUN : ( (http://www.listia.com/signup/63406) and you'll get some bonus credits - I will too, if I'm reading the fine print correctly.

I thought this was cool becuase last time I tried to use eBay, they were charging for listing items.

[Bells]

Ah... hold on let me see if i got this just right.

So, you list your things. And people with points "bid" on your things with said points. And you get their points for your item and you can use those points to get other items.

Did i got that right?

It's... well, it sounds interesting actually. It just really depends on what people are offering out there. How does they handle shipping costs?

[Nique]

Paypal. Or sometimes people wants more credits so they'll list their auctions under free shipping. I've mostly been looking at/ trading video game stuff but there's some movies and loads of other things too.

[POS Industries]

Nique turns out to be world's most cleverly disguised adbot. Film at 11.

[Bells]

POS, i really don't think this one pushes against the rule... i mean, it's really like making a thread to talk about ebay... isn't?

I made an account. The search system isn't the best one, but maybe there is some stuff in here...

[POS Industries]

It's more the "Here's a link to it, and here's a link to where you can sign up!" thing that's a bit sticky.

[Nique]

Seriously, I'm trying to figure out if I'm supposed to moderate this or not.

I'm not sure what you're looking for here - Proof that I'm not affliated with Listia? Is there a more appropriate thread/ subforum?

It's more the "Here's a link to it, and here's a link to where you can sign up!" thing that's a bit sticky.


Seriously though, I see what you mean. I guess I'm just not sure how else to bring up something like this. I mean... would you not want the extra credits if you were signing up?

EDIT: I mean, man I know what this sounds like and I'm kicking myself for sounding like I'm totally 100% buying into something unscrupulous (It's not, esspecially considering how little information they ask for). But I feel like maybe I've been around long enough that you guys probably don't need to second guess me on this kind of stuff.

[POS Industries]

I may need to see your papers, yes.

But in all honesty I mostly don't know what's to discuss here.

[phil_]

what's to discuss here.The idea of trading online currency as opposed to national currency, currency which is unaffected by international exchange rates?

[POS Industries]

Seriously though, I see what you mean. I guess I'm just not sure how else to bring up something like this. I mean... would you not want the extra credits if you were signing up?
Yeah, I'm really not trying to be a hardass here and I'm sure everything's on the up and up, it just struck me as rather funny how amazingly similar your opening post was to a number of adspams we've gotten here over the years, and then it occurred to me that I wasn't really even sure if I should address the issue similarly in the interest of fairness and precedent or whatever.

That and like I said I'm skeptical about just how much of a thread you can really get out of this, but on the whole it's still better than a Seil thread. So there's that!

The idea of trading online currency as opposed to national currency, currency which is unaffected by international exchange rates?
Welp, get on that.

[Geminex]

It'd depend a lot on people's confidence that the site will get bigger in the future. If there aren't many other users, credits aren't worth very much.

[Bells]

Honestly? It's a nice idea. and it just might become something even nice. But right now it's a huge "take my crap i don't want". Which actually.... is nice! a lot of people are probably filled with stuff they would like to get rid of... why not see if someone wants it and still get something in return?

Right now there are a ton of stickers and teddy bears in there.... i mean, a LOT.

[bluestarultor]

It'd depend a lot on people's confidence that the site will get bigger in the future. If there aren't many other users, credits aren't worth very much.

On the contrary, they're worth more. As more users join up, you'll see inflation because there will be more credits in the system. You're mistaking value for reliability.

[Nique]

Yeah I like it right now becuase it's a smaller community and there's more of an open forum for commenting on auctions and chatting with other users etc.

One hokey thing is the option to buy credits (seriously made me go 'WTF?!' when I saw that) but y'know it's mostly just been pretty fun so far.

Yeah, I'm really not trying to be a hardass here and I'm sure everything's on the up and up, it just struck me as rather funny how amazingly similar your opening post was to a number of adspams we've gotten here over the years, and then it occurred to me that I wasn't really even sure if I should address the issue similarly in the interest of fairness and precedent or whatever.


Please don't even think twice about how you handled this I completly understand. I think my unintentionally-hostile ribbing may just be me being on edge from all the drama that went down recently (on NPF).

[Geminex]

But why would inflation occur? Usually inflation is driven by increasing wages. No wages here. And an increase in the amount of credits in the system isn't equivalent to an increase in supply of credits.

[bluestarultor]

But why would inflation occur? Usually inflation is driven by increasing wages. No wages here. And an increase in the amount of credits in the system isn't equivalent to an increase in supply of credits.

Um, yes it is? To put it this way, take a commodity with a finite supply, such as gold. You have your gold and it's worth a lot due to rarity. Then you dig three feet down and find out the entire world is made of the stuff. It loses all of its value and you start building low-income housing out of it.

With increasing supply comes decreasing value. It doesn't matter how you're getting it; just that it's there.



Edit: Okay, that's a bad explanation. A better one would be that if everyone had the exact same amount and no more were ever added, no, inflation wouldn't happen. But then people buy stuff and there starts to be an imbalance. People selling better stuff will accumulate more, and in turn will be able to buy more expensive stuff with the increased amount. Natural market forces create a wealth gap, and it will only widen as more users join. That's ignoring the additions Nique mentioned below. Better stuff will then cost more and people will raise prices to try to get more out of the system. Eventually, there will be a ceiling on price, but within a certain scale, inflation is inevitable as more wealth is introduced into the system.

[Nique]

And an increase in the amount of credits in the system isn't equivalent to an increase in supply of credits.

It is actually becuase you get credit's when you first sign up AND you get a small amount for simply participating in the site. I mean, the same thing happens in MMOs - The more users, the more rupees (or whatever) have to become generated to accomodate them.

[Geminex]

Um, yes it is? To put it this way, take a commodity with a finite supply, such as gold. You have your gold and it's worth a lot due to rarity. Then you dig three feet down and find out the entire world is made of the stuff. It loses all of its value and you start building low-income housing out of it.

With increasing supply comes decreasing value. It doesn't matter how you're getting it; just that it's there.

You forget that the credits aren't magically appearing. The amount of credits in the system is increasing because there are new users within the system. Meaning, the amount of people demanding (aggregate demand) credits rises in parallel to the supply (aggregate supply).

So ok, it doesn't matter how you're getting the credits. But it's not a simple right-shift in supply, because it's not in ceteris paribus.

[bluestarultor]

You forget that the credits aren't magically appearing. The amount of credits in the system is increasing because there are new users within the system. Meaning, the amount of people demanding (aggregate demand) credits rises in parallel to the supply (aggregate supply).

So ok, it doesn't matter how you're getting the credits. But it's not a simple right-shift in supply, because it's not in ceteris paribus.

Please see my edit. ;)

[Geminex]

Ah, right. In that case:

Edit: Okay, that's a bad explanation. A better one would be that if everyone had the exact same amount and no more were ever added, no, inflation wouldn't happen. But then people buy stuff and there starts to be an imbalance. People selling better stuff will accumulate more, and in turn will be able to buy more expensive stuff with the increased amount. Natural market forces create a wealth gap, and it will only widen as more users join. That's ignoring the additions Nique mentioned below. Better stuff will then cost more and people will raise prices to try to get more out of the system. Eventually, there will be a ceiling on price, but within a certain scale, inflation is inevitable as more wealth is introduced into the system.

The thing here is, the amount of credits in the system should remain more or less stable. Because whenever someone's getting credits (from selling) someone else is losing them (from buying). So buying and selling won't really be a cause of inflation. And even if credits are added as new users join, demand for credits will rise with supply, so that shouldn't cause too much inflation either.

If there are other ways that credits can enter into circulation that I haven't considered then yes, inflation may occur gradually, but not as a result of an increased userbase.

And my point still stands, that as long as people aren't sure that they'll be able to exchange their currency for something of actual value (i.e. as long as this currency's value isn't guaranteed), they'll be reluctant to exchange any of their goods or services for this currency (in this case credits).
Edit: Though, admittedly, saying they weren't "worth very much" wasn't a good way to express that.

[Nique]

What's nice is that there is a cap on where you can start a bid (anywhere between 1 and 100 credits) so that helps curb inflation a little. I'll be interested to see what develops.

[Premmy]

but on the whole it's still better than a Seil thread. So there's that!
I want to rep you for this, but my hatred is too strong so this is what we get.

[Meister]

If I had something to get rid of I think I'd much rather exchange it for a more universal form of currency than tie myself into one website's private system. Or just straight up give it away for nothing.

[Nique]

If you think of it in terms of trading it makes a little more sense. I've been able to move stuff that I wouldn't have been able to otherwise, and might have just thrown away.

[Geminex]

What Meister said is pretty much what I meant. It's a currency, but it's unsecured. You're not going to give up stuff for credits, unless you know that there's lots of other people using those credits, and willing to give you something in exchange for them. Like I said, I'll be very interested in seeing how this turn out.

[tacticslion]

Just a quick interjection:

Inflation is inevitable - especially if it takes off - because people, inevitably, are people.

For example: knighthood (a game on facebook).

First: this game is totally free
Second: your power is dependant upon how many servitors you have.
Third: servitors are other people (with a few exceptions) that gain things for helping you.

This is effectively a "credit" system - there is in-game gold (which can be purchased for money, but doesn't need to be, as it can be made for free) which can be used to do stuff with. This gold can be used to buy vassals (literally and figuratively - a lord can put a vassal up for sale and "trade" them for gold; or, if they desire, a vassal could swear allegance but demand a gift of gold for it) and a "lord" can then use a "vassal" to gain more gold.

Now, here's the deal - some people who've signed up play the game more than others. This is inherently where the 'greats' come in. Those who, like me, signed up, and enjoy a diversion every once in a while, continually get better, but ultimately exist only to prop up those who (like my wife, who plays a bit more) have us as servitors - we grow their power, ultimately resulting in/creating a wealth-gap. Others are very active for a time, but then drop out - they cease to increase the utility to the system as a whole, even though they did for some time before. Others continually use what is available (including those who entered/left, those who play the game some, and those who play the game a great deal) to their own advantage, to gain more power/wealth. This is how free systems work - the more effort you put into something, the more you get out of it. With the influx of "abandoned demenses", there are more out there (which one would think would decrease their price), which are used to increase wealth... which means they become more valuable, which means that more vassals are needed, which means high-end, wealthy consumers buy them in hordes, which means that vassal-prices skyrocket, creating inflation.

Similarly, Listia. Users will inevitably sign up (especially since it's for free), gain their free credits, and then drop out. Their credits, however, remain in the system. Other users will sign up, pay money for credits, and then drop out, again adding credits. Others will sign up, use the system by itself, and, once they run out of credits (which are now in the system and in circulation) drop out. (conservatives, amirite?*). What this means, though, is that suddenly, there's a great deal more credits in the system, some in circulation, some not, and people - ever ready to gain more credits for the sake of gaining more stuff, will charge more credits for certain items, maximizing their own benefit. Because there are more credits to go around, and especially "credit-wealthy" individuals (who are saavy) will want more credits, inflation is basically inevitable. There will probably be some who gather many credits and leave, reducing the amount and strain on the system, but they will almost definately be outweighed by those who enter, increase the amount in the system, and leave. Also, artificial price-cielings are temporary stop-gap measures at best. Either the ceiling must eventually give way to the inflated market, or new, more innovative and creative techniques to get more will arise. Heck, if this becomes popular enough, minor economies might be based off of it, similar to World of Warcraft.

I'm aware the analogies aren't complete, but it stands as an example of what happens in free market forces where there isn't a hard base currency and "more" is likely to come forth, even with a relatvely stable ratio - the lazier ones, such as myself, will come later and inflation will almost definately occur.

*Note: I am a Conservative! How horrid!