What do dark elves make their clothes out of?

[BitVyper]

I mean they live miles underground with like, big greasy subterranian cows as their food source, but they still have like, these personalized fine elven garments (evil ones(secretly chaotic good renegade ones)). What are they using for material? Deep sheep?

[Archbio]

Silk. Spider silk.

[Arhra]

They are skilled illusionists you know.

[Krylo]

They make leather from the skin of their victims when they go on surface raids. Also Kobolds.

[BitVyper]

Silk. Spider silk.

Didn't it take something like a million spiders many years to produce a decent sized piece of cloth?

[Archbio]

Depends on how big are the spiders.

[Krylo]

Lloth helps.

She's kind of a big deal in the spider circles.

[BitVyper]

Depends on how big are the spiders.

Giant spider ranches seem like a bit of a logistical nightmare. I mean, how do you keep the spiders in one place? Or from brutally killing each other, for that matter.

Tricking American tourists into sending their kids on a giant spider fun-ride is an attractive proposition though...

[Archbio]

There again Kobolds come in handy.

[BitVyper]

You can't solve all your problems by throwing kobolds at them!

Edit: Note to self: Construct Kobold Cannon that auto-summons kobolds for every shot.

[Shyria Dracnoir]

They make leather from the skin of their victims when they go on surface raids. Also Kobolds.There again Kobolds come in handy.
You can't solve all your problems by throwing kobolds at them!
Edit: Note to self: Construct Kobold Cannon that auto-summons kobolds for every shot.

:mad: Those are MY minions you're taking about using for artillery there, and I will not sit here and see them besmirched so! I'll have you know that kobolds are a wonderfully inventive, industrious race and should be praised for it. Why, it's almost enough for me to take my drow-skin gloves off, smack it across your pasty cheek, and demand retribution!

Besides, you can't get any decent penetration with a kobold shell. Too little mass. Gotta use something like lizardfolk or troglodytes if you want to do some damage.

[synkr0nized]

Interesting tangent: Google decided to show me a few results with "draw" in them instead of "drow" for some reason.


In any case, the consensus seems to be that they would use spider silk as a primary material or, when possible, snag silks and cloths from above-ground [though I expect not purchase clothing, as all those people up there are inferior, etc.]. Or, you know, Lolth waves her hands, etc.

That seems reasonable to me; silkworms have been used to make silk, for example, and other fantasy settings have implied the use of spider silk in tailoring.

[Marc v4.0]

You can't solve all your problems by throwing kobolds at them!

Everything I know about puzzle-solving and dungeon-crawling in DnD says that you need to play more.

note: Dwarves are a fine substitute for Kobolds in most situations.

"Why don't we just keep tossing Kobolds Dwarves into the chasm until they pile up and bridge the gap?"

Seemless!

[synkr0nized]

I approve of the wholesale slaughter of dwarves whenever possible.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Rogues for me. Shifty buggers.

[Flarecobra]

How about Gnomes? Little beady-eyed bastards...

Though in the first NWN expansions... Kobalds were used as a counterweight...

[Archbio]

You can't solve all your problems by throwing kobolds at them!

Why not?

That's what Kobolds do with their problems. Seems like a double-standard to me!

[DFM]

You can cannon murder every kobold but Deekin.

Deekin would end you.

[Amake]

"Kobold tossing privileges" is my new favorite phrase. It might had replaced "Haggis wrangler" if I hadn't just put that in.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Yous got to watch out tossing kobolds, just in case you hit upon Pun-Pun

[Geminex]

Yes. In Soviet Russia, Kobold tosses YOU.
Only replace 'Soviet Russia' with 'campaign in which the DM is stupid enough to allow a player to actually create Pun-Pun'

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I always had a rule that you are allowed anything but the more stupid/unbalanced it is, the more stupid/unbalanced things you will come across in return. It works out pretty well in the long run.

[BitVyper]

When did kobolds switch from being dogs to being reptiles anyway?

[Tev]

When did kobolds switch from being dogs to being reptiles anyway?3rd Edition. Where everything took a turn for the crazy.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

3rd Edition. Where everything took a turn for the crazy.

If by crazy you mean better- Edition Wars go!

[Julford Hajime]

FUCK YOU GUYS 4TH IS BEST EDITION.

/Edition Wars

[bluestarultor]

FUCK YOU GUYS 4TH IS BEST EDITION.

/Edition Wars

I hear 4th finally integrated Psionics into the core and pulled it off seamlessly. Tell me more. :)


Edit: Otherwise, 3.5. /Edition Wars

[Professor Smarmiarty]

FUCK YOU GUYS 4TH IS BEST EDITION.

/Edition Wars

4TH EDITION IS FOR VIDEOGAMERS AND BABIES WHO CRY WHEN THE OTHER PLAYERS GET SOMETHING THEY DON'T. YOU CAN REPLACE A 4TH EDITION PLAYER WITH A DICE MACHINE. 3RD 4EVA
/Edition Wars

[krogothwolf]

3.5 is the awesomest part of 3rd Edition! 4th is for people who can't read a rule book and just wanna roll dice!

Hell, my 8 Month old Baby could play 4th easily.

/Edition Wars

[Fifthfiend]

I ain't no rogue, I'm a fuckin' thief

1st or fuck youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I ain't no rogue, I'm a fuckin' thief

1st or fuck youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

I'M GOING TO HIT YOU WITH MY FIGHTING-MAN! OH WAIT THERE ARE NO COMBAT RULES!
OH YOU MEAN AD&D. MY FIGHTER IS GOING TO HIT YOU- ROLL DICE, HANG ON- I'VE GOT TO WORK THROUGH SOME MATRIX OPERATORS AND SOLVE THE REIMANN HYPOTHESIS.
/Edition wars

[Magus]

I was more into HeroQuest when I was six, bitches. It doesn't even have jack to do with Gary Gygax! Fuck yeah! You didn't even have to roll dice to make the characters, SHIT IS JUST ON CARDS ALREADY. And all the stupid little figurines are INCLUDED instead of costing thirty dollars for a set of six, Mr. Moneybagses.

/Edition Wars

I was with Krylo on where Dark Elf clothes come from, the flayed skin of their victims.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

HEROQUEST IS THE PUSSY VERSION OF WARHAMMER QUEST. FOR BITCHES TOO DUMB TO READ THE RULEBOOK.
/Ediion Wars

[Archbio]

Hey, I figured out what dark elves make their clothes out of... they make them out of 2nd edition books, because they're damn fine.

/Edition Wars

[TDK]

While I play 3.5, I do like the 2nd edition books much more. The art in particular is so much better. 3.5's art is terrible in my opinion. Especially the monsters. The 2ed monster manual is gorgeous.

[BitVyper]

FUCK YOU GUYS 4TH IS BEST EDITION.

/Edition Wars

There was another guy who liked 4th Edtion a lot. You know what his name was? Hitler.

[PyrosNine]

Pyros doesn't play DND because he has no friends. Also he has no people to play DnD with. Pyros will instead /Edition War the 9th edition, only as it hasn't come out yet, but by the time it does come out there will be people who will agree with him.

I believe Dark Elves make clothing out of bats, deepground cows, magic, and other Dark Elves. Also, tossing Dark Elves at a problem is the only logical solution, because anything else is, by the Dark Elves' admission, inferior.

[Aldurin]

kobolds

For all I care, they can be used for a Left4Dead reenactment. Anything that involves the death of them. Just don't make them a playable race as that is such a fuck you I would go all friendly fire on a party member that was a kobold, even if it was a cleric.

They also make nice hats. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0063.html)

As for drow clothing, they seem more like Nike guys than Hollister.

[Funka Genocide]

"Whelp everyone, seems you've reached level 10. I hope everyone that isn't wizard has had their fun because... well because you're all pretty much just bit players now. Now hide behind the frail fellow as he waves his hands about and try not to shit yourself when he summons terrible things from beyond your imagination."

ah 2nd edition.

/edition wars

[Yrcrazypa]

I hope by that you mean 3rd/3.5 edition. Since the disparity between casters and non-casters there is even more ridiculous than any other edition. 2nd at least tried to be balanced, 3.5 just kept adding more and more ridiculous tricks for casters, while not giving a whole lot to the non-casters. What, with wizards having immortality for all intents and purposes, and make it impossible for anyone without more/better spells to beat them.

[Julford Hajime]

I hope by that you mean 3rd/3.5 edition. Since the disparity between casters and non-casters there is even more ridiculous than any other edition. 2nd at least tried to be balanced, 3.5 just kept adding more and more ridiculous tricks for casters, while not giving a whole lot to th-

Now Yrcrazypa, I'm happy for you, and I'mma let you finish, but the Book of Weeaboo Fightan Magic is the greatest book of all time.

Of all time! (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Weeaboo_Fightan_Magic)

No seriously man, fuckin' Spirit Bomb level abilities. For martial classes. Actually, I think one of the attacks IS the Spirit Bomb.

[Yrcrazypa]

Not giving a whole lot implies that that book was given, hm? And it still doesn't fully make up for the fact that a wizard can literally sit untouched in his own little demi-plane, and use some cheap spells to fight from there, while so heavily protected with spells that nothing can hit them. And if something does, they can have contingencies to make it so they can't be hit anymore.

[Funka Genocide]

I'm going to admit that I kind of like the sentiment behind 4th edition. Like level the playing field, give everyone a job etc.

but...

Man did they fuck up the implementation. I bought the players guide and was sickened to find that it's just an endless progression of completely uninteresting lists of abilities that pretty much amount to "this thing does this much damage, and provides this bonus effect."

The artwork was fucktastic shit, the writing was... well there was none. It didn't even try to present an engaging milieu, it was just a bunch of crappy cliches strung together. Which I mean, D&D has always been a bunch of crappy cliches strung together, but you kind of let it slide since they typically did such a nice job stringing it together, and you knew they were doing it for the love of all things nerdy.

Like past editions were a lovingly made macaroni picture from your child in the shape of your greatest nerdly desires, whereas fourth edition was a macaroni picture made by a marketing executive that spelled out "buy my shit!".

[Magus]

Wait, Kobolds are lizards now? I'm pretty sure in my copy of Record of Lodoss War, Slayers, etc. the things are frickin' canines, man. Hell they look like wolves but with swords/clothes.

Troglodytes are lizards. Or fishmen, I forget Man, you'd think somebody who knew what they were doing would be in charge of this kind of stuff over at Wizards.

EDIT: Hay guys by the way goblins now have gills and webbed feet and dragons are now furry and look like giant bears with horns. Just thought you should know.

[Wigmund]

Kobolds
http://i36.tinypic.com/2mmioau.jpg
I have no idea if they're rats, lizards or puppies - but they're cute as hell.

[Magus]

They're seriously like little fox/rat guys or werewolf-analogues in pretty much every fantasy work that was even tenuously ripping off DnD EVER so making them lizards makes no sense.

[Aldurin]

wizards

Ah yes, the shaky wimp in the back of the party that hides behind the tank until he gets strong enough spells.

Hell, even DDO knows this. Once you reach level 5 then your cold ray spell does like 50 damage without enhancements, and then you get fireball and crowd control spells. And then there is so much death and destruction available and 8th and 9th level. Meteor swarm and hold monster mass alone is overpowered as it is.

[bluestarultor]

They're seriously like little fox/rat guys or werewolf-analogues in pretty much every fantasy work that was even tenuously ripping off DnD EVER so making them lizards makes no sense.

Well, to be fair, DnD made them dogs in the first place. Kobolds originate in German folklore and like many sprites have various humanoid and animal forms. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobold) None of them are remotely anthropomorphically canine or reptilian, though.

[Magus]

On the one hand, I'd expect something called "meteor swarm" to be pretty overpowered. On the other hand, it sounds like the wizards don't have to work very hard to get this high-level magic. Wizardry should be something that takes a long time to build up to be extremely damaging and powerful (like maybe they start out more with status boosting stuff and projectile attacks so they are still useful at low levels, but maybe lacking super-powered fight magic), but when you put enough work into them you are totally like lightning bolting huge crowds of foes.

I mean it would eventually be a similar problem but at least being a wizard takes a lot of time and effort on the part of the player, instead of being too overpowered too early.

Getting back to dark elves, I find the idea of the whole mass of a race being totally evil kind of tiresome. I know it hints that there is a minority like Drizzt and Zaknafein who isn't like that, and yeah, the ceremonies and rituals of a society can be pretty overwhelming, but the minority of dark elves who aren't super evil bastards is so tiny and seems hinted to be genetic that it's seriously kind of overdone. It was pretty awesome back in the day with Elric, but at least there it didn't seem to imply that Melniboneans were genetically evil, just super misguided (or not, since they weren't really much more evil than the New Kingdomers or Pan Tangians when you got down to it...in context they were barely more evil probably only for being more powerful and older than the other races).

EDIT: And yeah, I know that in the original folklore that all these goblins and trolls and kobolds and so on have little to do with their modern day archetypes, but then again people would probably be annoyed if they were introduced to a high-fantasy setting ala Tolkein but the Elves were little sprites ala Santa Claus. We're used to the modern iterations of these things following set overarching patterns and while you can play with that a little bit going from mammal to lizard seems like a big change that makes not a lot of sense in the context of the past 30 years of modern fantasy conceptions.

ANOTHER EDIT: Though regarding elves I guess house-elves in Harry Potter kind of flew under the radar without much fuss despite being exactly like the Santa Claus elves in a world otherwise following major archetypes in design for existing modern iterations of mythological creatures...

[bluestarultor]

It may have just been a "fuck you" to all the copycats. Because you KNOW it's established they're dogs now, so the first guy to make them lizards is going to get called out on it and everyone will laugh and he'll go cry in a corner somewhere.

I've actually seen some examples bold enough to go lizard-dogs or dogs with strategically-placed scales, but never outright lizards.

[BitVyper]

On the other hand, it sounds like the wizards don't have to work very hard to get this high-level magic.

Depends on the DM, but if you're playing a totally no-surprises vanilla game, it's just a matter of gaining levels.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I'm going to admit that I kind of like the sentiment behind 4th edition. Like level the playing field, give everyone a job etc.

but...

Man did they fuck up the implementation. I bought the players guide and was sickened to find that it's just an endless progression of completely uninteresting lists of abilities that pretty much amount to "this thing does this much damage, and provides this bonus effect."

The artwork was fucktastic shit, the writing was... well there was none. It didn't even try to present an engaging milieu, it was just a bunch of crappy cliches strung together. Which I mean, D&D has always been a bunch of crappy cliches strung together, but you kind of let it slide since they typically did such a nice job stringing it together, and you knew they were doing it for the love of all things nerdy.

Like past editions were a lovingly made macaroni picture from your child in the shape of your greatest nerdly desires, whereas fourth edition was a macaroni picture made by a marketing executive that spelled out "buy my shit!".

Just to ruin your buzz a bit this is exactly what I think of 4th ed.

[Marc v4.0]

Well, to be fair, DnD made them dogs in the first place. Kobolds originate in German folklore and like many sprites have various humanoid and animal forms. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobold) None of them are remotely anthropomorphically canine or reptilian, though.

I always pictured Kobolds as being chittery little reptile-like things but with scruffy Mohawks and manes and a semi-canine jaw structure. The image seemed more "deep cave creature" then a dog-like thing.

They are also the most laughable and dangerous creatures at the same time.

[Arhra]

In a group I was in, the rogue once laughed at kobolds and then he was eaten by a giant toad.

True story!

On the subject of dark elf supplies, how do they keep that pure white hair so clean and silky smooth?

[Nikose Tyris]

Just thought I'd toss this in here- They have Underground Buffalo called Rothe, various giant bugs, etc. to use for clothing/armor. Rothe hair cloaks have been referenced in the past. >.>

FakeEdit: Ghost Rothe. Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting gives the stats.


Edit: Kobolds have always been tiny lizard people that thought too much of themselves while wishing to be dragons.

At least, they've always been that to me. :(

[Amake]

On the subject of dark elf supplies, how do they keep that pure white hair so clean and silky smooth?
Spider genes?

[Funka Genocide]

kobolds are lame, Bugbears rule you.

[Magus]

I always pictured Kobolds as being chittery little reptile-like things but with scruffy Mohawks and manes and a semi-canine jaw structure. The image seemed more "deep cave creature" then a dog-like thing.


Edit: Kobolds have always been tiny lizard people that thought too much of themselves while wishing to be dragons.

At least, they've always been that to me.

Oceania is at war with Eastasia. Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.

[Aldurin]

Oceania is at war with Eastasia. Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.

Oh god I want to see a 1984 version of DDO now what have you done to my mind?!

[Magus]

Eberron is taken over by dystopian government, wizardry is outlawed except for inner party members, entire point of quest is to avoid Chamber 101?

[Aldurin]

Eberron is taken over by dystopian government, wizardry is outlawed except for inner party members, entire point of quest is to avoid Chamber 101?

So that means the main law enforcement doesn't use any magic except for possibly low level healing from bards? Awesome. Just get your list of arcane spells up and then it'll be like playing Prototype, but with fire and ice and shit instead of mutations.

I would pay for that game if it existed. And if it was F2P I would buy whatever bonus deal Turbine has to make money.