Question regarding endangered species, etc

[TDK]

H'okay:

Komodo Dragons are not endangered, they are 'vulnerable' which is still in the 'threatened' range. The definition of poaching I've found regards "Endangered" species specifically, but Komodos don't appear to actually BE endangered. However, I've seen things saying that Komodo populations have been threatened by poaching.

That seems contradictory.

Does anyone want to weigh in on this or have any knowledge regarding these sorts of laws? I know its a bit of an esoteric question, but I really want to know if killing a komodo dragon is considered poaching.

[bluestarultor]

Poaching is any time you illegally kill an animal. This includes non-endangered animals so long as you do it without a license. You can poach ducks, and there's no shortage of them.

[TDK]

I know that. The definition of poaching involves several different things, but specifically I was referring to the bit talking about endangered animals. Nothing else comes into play with what I am talking about.

[Hanuman]

If you don't benefit from the remains, claim self defense.

Kill it with your bare hands for bonus points.

[Shyria Dracnoir]

Poaching is the illegal taking of wild plants or animals contrary to local and international conservation and wildlife management laws. Violations of hunting laws and regulations are normally punishable by law and, collectively, such violations are known as poaching.

It may be illegal and in violation because

* The game or fish is not in season; usually the breeding season is declared as the closed season when wildlife species are protected by law.
* The poacher does not possess a valid permit.
* The poacher is illegally selling the animal, animal parts or plant for a profit.
* The animal is being hunted outside of legal hours.
* The hunter used an illegal weapon for that animal.
* The animal or plant is on restricted land.
* The right to hunt this animal is claimed by somebody.
* The type of bait is inhumane. (e.g. food unsuitable for an animal's health)
* The means used are illegal (for example, baiting a field while hunting quail or other animals, using spotlights to stun or paralyze deer, or hunting from a moving vehicle, watercraft, or aircraft).
* The animal or plant is protected by law or that it has been listed as extinct or endangered (see for example the Endangered Species Act for the USA or the Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918 and similar laws/treaties.
* The animal or plant has been tagged by a researcher.

Note that only wild animals can be poached. Stealing or killing domestic animals is considered to be theft ("cattle rustling"), not poaching.

Plant poaching is also on the rise. A prominent example is the removal of ginseng growing in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park.[1] It is estimated that wild ginseng plants are worth more than $260–365 per pound (dried) on the black market[2].

I'm going to assume that even though a species isn't officially "endangered", listing it as a threatened species of some sort would probably still count as having protection under law, along with whatever statutes the Indonesian government would have regarding the protection of local wildlife. Additionally, most of the dragon's territory in the wild is considered a national park (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komodo_National_Park) so killing one there or in a zoo would count as killing it on restricted territory.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

According to Wiki, Komodo dragons are protected under indonesian law. If you kill one you are poaching.
Also does the semantic really matter?

[TDK]

Well fuck.

[Melfice]

Is this the point where we call the Indonesian police and laugh while they ask the United States to fine you? Or even drag you away to an Indonesian prison?

Or is this a moment of "Well, fuck. There goes that 10 bucks on a lost bet..."

[Azisien]

To expand on the non-poaching side, the conservation status of animals depends on the framework a specific country is using, and most countries have one, and they all vary to some degree.

In general, "endangered" means the animal population has a pretty high chance of extinction (be it local or global) in the short term without immediate use of conservation techniques (ex: breeding programs, protected lands, stopping POACHING)

"Vulnerable" means the animal population has a chance of extinction in the more medium term. Usually this means their population is not, well, endangered, but it has perhaps seen a huge drop since we showed up and started slaughtering swathes of them with gun, chemical, or Walmart shopping center.

Different countries can set different laws for what it means to hunt/kill animals of different ratings. Based on the responses so far it sounds like killing komodo dragons is illegal though?

[Melfice]

Komodo Dragons have the protected status, like Smarty said.
Killing one, outside of self-defence (and you need damn good evidence that it was such), means you're right fucked.

And I mean right fucked.

[Pip Boy]

While we're on the subject, I have another question regarding endangered species that I haven't been able to find an answer for anywhere else.

A1 or Tony's Creole Seasoning?

Maybe a bit of both?

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Freshly cooked mushroom sauce you plebian slob.

[TDK]

Is this the point where we call the Indonesian police and laugh while they ask the United States to fine you? Or even drag you away to an Indonesian prison?

Or is this a moment of "Well, fuck. There goes that 10 bucks on a lost bet..."

"Bet you ten bucks komodo dragons are legal to kill!"

"Are not! You're on!"

And here we are.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Indonesian police will fuck you up hardcore tpp

[TDK]

I think I could take 'em.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Last I heard Indonesia had the 3rd largest army in the world and the police are not adverse to calling them in to ettle "civilian" disputes

[Archbio]

* The animal or plant is protected by law or that it has been listed as extinct or endangered (see for example the Endangered Species Act for the USA or the Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918 and similar laws/treaties.

If you kill an animal or plant that has been listed as extinct, Theodore Roosevelt appears and shoots you with an elephant gun.

[TDK]

Last I heard Indonesia had the 3rd largest army in the world and the police are not adverse to calling them in to ettle "civilian" disputes

:(

[bluestarultor]

:(

You'd better be good with a Buster Sword. I hear the record is down to the last four members.

[TDK]

I prefer a broad sword. Which is appropriate because I planned on using one.

[Bells]

If you kill an animal or plant that has been listed as extinct, Theodore Roosevelt appears and shoots you with an elephant gun.

Wait, if it's Extinct how can i possible kill it?

What? Are we discussing Zombie Dodos now?

Within the same line of Reasoning, Does T.R's Elephant gun shoots actual elephants?

[Shyria Dracnoir]

Yes. And the elephants have their own guns.

[Loyal]

Good thing they haven't figured out how to make them shoot anything but fluids.

[Premmy]

Komodo Dragons have the protected status, like Smarty said.
Killing one, outside of self-defence (and you need damn good evidence that it was such), means you're right fucked.

And I mean right fucked.

I'd imagine the only "evidence" you would need is "It could see me" cause it's a KOMODO FUCKING DRAGON.

[Archbio]

Wait, if it's Extinct how can i possible kill it?

What? Are we discussing Zombie Dodos now?

Lazarus Dodos! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_taxon#Reappearing_IUCN_red_list_species)

Does T.R's Elephant gun shoots actual elephants?

Why not? Can't get any more paradox-y than it already is.

[Melfice]

Wait, if it's Extinct how can i possible kill it?

What? Are we discussing Zombie Dodos now?

Within the same line of Reasoning, Does T.R's Elephant gun shoots actual elephants?

Something's extinct if there are too few of them to sustain the population.
So, if there's ten left, you could say the species is extinct, since there's basically no way the species can survive without resorting to inbreeding, cross-breeding or human intervention.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Wikipedia disagrees! Democracy 4eva!

[BitVyper]

Yo, TDK, you got my komodo dragon skins yet? I got orders to fill, and I can't make purses out of thin air, you know what I'm sayin?

[bluestarultor]

Species have been declared extinct and re-discovered before. First example that comes to mind is some kind of trout that they listed as extinct and then found again in Yellowstone or something.

[Premmy]

Also Ceolocanths

[Archbio]

Species have been declared extinct and re-discovered before.

Which makes them... lazarus taxa! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_taxon#Reappearing_IUCN_red_list_species)

Is the term not cool enough?

[Shyria Dracnoir]

Meh, kinda loses its bite if you aren't familiar with the New Testament. And zombie taxa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zombie_taxon) are already taken.

On a related note, I find it hilarious that scientists can actually call something an Elvis taxon. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_taxon)

[Archbio]

On a related note, I find it hilarious that scientists can actually call something an Elvis taxon.

It could be worse. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_hedgehog)

[Shyria Dracnoir]

It controls cell division of adult stem cells and has been implicated in development of some cancers.

Man I knew Sonic Team had gotten into the habit of doing some shitty work with the franchise, but I didn't realize it was an actual health risk!

[TDK]

I'd imagine the only "evidence" you would need is "It could see me" cause it's a KOMODO FUCKING DRAGON.

That would be illegal, sir.
In other words, FUCK YOU SLAY YOUR OWN DRAGON. I'm making mine into dragonhide armor. And I will keep its blood to quench a sword in.