I need a new bag.

[Sithdarth]

Ok so this is going to be part rant and part question. Anyway the rant first. Maybe it's just that I'm totally strange or something and tend to carry an inordinate amount of weight with me but I keep destroying bags. Both duffel bags I carry my Karate gear in and the backpacks I use to carry my text books in. Currently my Karate duffel bag is quite literally falling apart and I've broken one shoulder strap and then the plastic that attached the shoulder strap to the bag after I replaced the shoulder strap. The little plastic thing that allows the shoulder straps to be adjustable broke on the way down a stair case on my previous backpack. So I went out and bought a pack designed for hiking thinking that certainly it would hold up for awhile. It broke in exactly the same way while walking up some stairs.

Which brings me to the title of this thread. I actually need two new bags. I need a new duffel bag and I need a new backpack. Previous experience has taught me that going to Walmart and buying normal ones just isn't going to work. So I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to either go with army surplus or like serious luggage. That's where you guys come in. I really don't want to waste money on a bag that was just made to look tough but will fall apart on me again. So I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with anything that might work for me. I usually end up carrying something on the order of 20-30 pounds or more with me on any given day.

[Nikose Tyris]

First problem may be that you're buying walmart backpacks. :/

Go to a store that specializes, and get a swiss army pack. They come in all shapes and sizes, and they can hold a decent amount of weight. [roughly 40 lbs to and from school, for two years, and the straps are just beginning to fray. Best prices are around the $90 mark.]

[Krylo]

Swiss army (or just plain ole army) packs tend to turn up in goodwills and what not quite often, as well, due to their durable nature and ability to outlast any sane person's need for them.

I'd check places like that before spending ninety bucks on a backpack or duffel bag.

[Sithdarth]

I was looking through an online army surplus store and they had used large Alice Packs complete with frame for about $40. Sounds like that might be a good investment. I was also considering a gear bag for use as a duffel but those a little more expensive.

[Bells]

i have one of those Army surplus bags and they are amazing. really safe and resistent. But i picked mine up on ebay, might be worth it checking out there are specialized sellers for those

[Hanuman]

...What are you carrying to karate?

[Sithdarth]

...What are you carrying to karate?

Currently a 24 pound self made weight vest. The Dojo is in what is essentially the basement next to a stair case that goes up two stories. I put it on and run to the top about 5 times. Its a pretty decent workout. Just recently I decided to add a minute or two of jump rope at the end of that.

Anyway with my gi, sparring gear, first aid kit, and the various other things that get put in there my bag weighs about 30 pounds easy.

[Hanuman]

I'd suggest not running down the stairs with that vest on, your synovial joints can't deal with that.

Really, if your that hard on your knees you probably should be carrying this stuff on wheels or in a hiking backpack.

[Archbio]

Papa's got it. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ogGAiyjMNY)

[Sithdarth]

It's not like I bound and thud down the stairs like some sort of lummox. In fact mostly because the stairs are rather hard concrete things covered with rather hard slick plastic like stuff and tend to get slippery when going down I tend to go at a brisk walk more than a run. It's also only a twice a week thing giving my knees plenty of rest. As for the weight I carry I've pretty much carried about that much from Jr High onward. If I was suddenly going to break down from it I would have by now.

[Hanuman]

It's not like I bound and thud down the stairs like some sort of lummox. In fact mostly because the stairs are rather hard concrete things covered with rather hard slick plastic like stuff and tend to get slippery when going down I tend to go at a brisk walk more than a run. It's also only a twice a week thing giving my knees plenty of rest. As for the weight I carry I've pretty much carried about that much from Jr High onward. If I was suddenly going to break down from it I would have by now.
You are a 150-200lb bag of stuff supported by fluid lubricated joints that you don't get more of.

I may as well be telling you to brush and floss regularly.

[Darth SS]

You are a 150-200lb bag of stuff supported by fluid lubricated joints that you don't get more of.

I may as well be telling you to brush and floss regularly.

How about we go off the ridiculous assumption that he didn't just start doing this all of a sudden? And that 25 pounds isn't that much weight?




I can second the Swiss Army reccomendation. I bought a swiss army bag back at the start of high school after my old backpack broke. Used it all through high school, then after graduation when my messenger bag broke I went back to it. I'm now in my fourth year of university, and it is still trucking. If I need to move it, it WILL go in my backpack, and the worst that's happened is some straps are starting to fray, the bottom is really scratched up and you can see some of the stitching it starting to stretch. After 8 years, I'd say that's pretty darn impressive.

[Azisien]

L.L Bean makes good bags too. Not sure what their availability is where you are.

[Sithdarth]

Yeah I'm actually current a 230 pound, that used to be over 250 pound, bag of stuff. If that much weight was going to destroy my knees it would have done so when I gained my freshman 15 and shot up to like 270 for awhile.

I'll have to look into the Swiss army bag angle as well. See if I can't get one cheaper than the roughly $40 I can get a used Alice pack for.

[Hanuman]

Again, I'm speaking long term. We aren't talking 25lbs on a joint, we aren't even talking 255lbs on a joint, we are talking about taking your current load bearing responsibilities and multiplying it with the force of gravity.

Running up the stairs? I'm cool with that, you are lifting basically 255lbs and the joint CAN deal with that, but running down the stairs will amplify that force, the quicker you go the faster repetition on the joints so it's still going to wear.

I'm talking about not having knee replacements when you hit 45-60, and saving a lot of aches up until then.

[Sithdarth]

Again, I'm speaking long term. We aren't talking 25lbs on a joint, we aren't even talking 255lbs on a joint, we are talking about taking your current load bearing responsibilities and multiplying it with the force of gravity.

Running up the stairs? I'm cool with that, you are lifting basically 255lbs and the joint CAN deal with that, but running down the stairs will amplify that force, the quicker you go the faster repetition on the joints so it's still going to wear.

I'm talking about not having knee replacements when you hit 45-60, and saving a lot of aches up until then.

Yeah you see this right there its a load of crap. It takes exactly as much force to lift something as it does to keep it from falling. There is no amplifying effect here. I mean if you hit the stairs straight legged and don't do anything at all to absorb the impact then you can stress the joint. However, if you bend through the same distance when you step down as when you step up the stresses are identical. Things aren't magically heavier because they are going downwards. It takes exactly as much energy to lift something up one stair as it does to stop something that has fallen the distance of one stair. If you also spread the stop over the same distance as the lift the forces encountered are absolutely identical. That's how physics works. Anybody that insists the landing part of a jump is any harder than the jumping part on your body is simply landing wrong and not taking full advantage of their limbs or the physics involved.

Beyond that human joints where never meant to last 45 years. They certainly weren't meant to last 60. I might as well make use of my knees while I have them instead of waiting for them to deteriorate on their own. Besides it's not like I'm not taking preventive measures or anything. Karate and any other hard martial art is tough on the joints so I've been taking joint supplements for awhile. I'm not saying I'm not worried about the future I'm saying I'll deal with it when the time comes. If my knees hurt then they hurt. Pain never killed anyone. I actually fell off the back of the truck and banged one of my knees pretty good. That was years ago and the doctor said there was no sign of one of the ligaments that runs down the back of the knee when they took the MRI. You know what his advice was? You'll be fine without it just strengthen the muscles around the knee and they'll compensate for it and the pain will go away. You know what happened? I worked like crazy and strengthened my knees and now they are better than ever and no pain. I think I'll trust medical science and physics. I know how to take the stress off my knees by using my foot first then my whole leg to absorb and dissipate the shock, I do this running barefoot, so that I feel more stress on the way up the stairs than the way down the stairs.

[Hanuman]

Yeah you see this right there its a load of crap. It takes exactly as much force to lift something as it does to keep it from falling. There is no amplifying effect here. I mean if you hit the stairs straight legged and don't do anything at all to absorb the impact then you can stress the joint. However, if you bend through the same distance when you step down as when you step up the stresses are identical. Things aren't magically heavier because they are going downwards. It takes exactly as much energy to lift something up one stair as it does to stop something that has fallen the distance of one stair. If you also spread the stop over the same distance as the lift the forces encountered are absolutely identical. That's how physics works. Anybody that insists the landing part of a jump is any harder than the jumping part on your body is simply landing wrong and not taking full advantage of their limbs or the physics involved.
So lets say you're standing on a flight, you step off with your left foot; does your right knee support your weight until your left foot comes in contact with the stair? If so, your knee is at an odd angle, one that your joints are not supposed to use to support you, and if not then you are disconnected from supporting yourself and you will get impact when you land, regardless of muscle that shock will go through your knee.

Then again, I never took physics, so if anyone has some numbers shoot em out.



Beyond that human joints where never meant to last 45 years. They certainly weren't meant to last 60. I might as well make use of my knees while I have them instead of waiting for them to deteriorate on their own.
Well, it comes down to how much you care about your body. If you are trying to justify not looking after yourself then you don't need to, I'm just trying to give advice on what might make you feel and function better later.

Besides it's not like I'm not taking preventive measures or anything. Karate and any other hard martial art is tough on the joints so I've been taking joint supplements for awhile. I'm not saying I'm not worried about the future I'm saying I'll deal with it when the time comes. If my knees hurt then they hurt. Pain never killed anyone. I actually fell off the back of the truck and banged one of my knees pretty good. That was years ago and the doctor said there was no sign of one of the ligaments that runs down the back of the knee when they took the MRI. You know what his advice was? You'll be fine without it just strengthen the muscles around the knee and they'll compensate for it and the pain will go away. You know what happened? I worked like crazy and strengthened my knees and now they are better than ever and no pain. I think I'll trust medical science and physics. I know how to take the stress off my knees by using my foot first then my whole leg to absorb and dissipate the shock, I do this running barefoot, so that I feel more stress on the way up the stairs than the way down the stairs.
Well, it seems like you're not looking for advice so I won't give it.

I like to spar with shoes on, but I guess bare foot helps if someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night.

[Sithdarth]

So lets say you're standing on a flight, you step off with your left foot; does your right knee support your weight until your left foot comes in contact with the stair? If so, your knee is at an odd angle, one that your joints are not supposed to use to support you, and if not then you are disconnected from supporting yourself and you will get impact when you land, regardless of muscle that shock will go through your knee.

If you knee was supporting your weight you wouldn't be traveling downward at all. The stress on your supporting knee when stepping down is significantly less than standing or stepping up because in order to move down you simply stop supporting yourself in a controlled manner and gravity does the rest. You deal with the impact at the bottom by hitting first with the toes and then using the muscles in your leg to slow the movement gradually as your heel comes down and then you continue to slow the movement gradually by bending at the knee and the hip. This is how your body was designed to function. The greater the angle your joints bend through with the help from the resistance of your muscles to slow your movement the less stress you feel. It is basic physics.

Then again, I never took physics, so if anyone has some numbers shoot em out.


Work = Force times distance. Work is energy. When stepping down there is only so much energy available from the pull of gravity. The longer the distance over which you dissipate that energy by bending joints the less force you need. If I double the distance I half the force. Proper technique, which your body instinctively knows because it results in the least effort and stress, is to use the supporting leg to support just enough of your weight so that the energy gained going down the stairs and the force on that knee is minimized while at the same time the foot that lands travels through at least as much distance as the supporting knee ensuring it never feels any more stress than the supporting knee felt. As long as you let your body do what it instinctively knows how to do this will happen. First and foremost your knees and legs are shock absorbers and they work wonderfully for that even under extreme circumstances without undue wear as long as you let them do what they where designed to do.

Going up the stairs is absolutely the most stressful part on the joints because it requires you to apply enough force to support all of your weight plus the extra force to lift that weight to the next stair and do work against gravity.

I like to spar with shoes on, but I guess bare foot helps if someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night.

I work out bare foot because I learn a traditional style and I respect the traditions of said style. That and the ball of my foot is a very effective weapon to kick with.

[Hanuman]

If you knee was supporting your weight you wouldn't be traveling downward at all. The stress on your supporting knee when stepping down is significantly less than standing or stepping up because in order to move down you simply stop supporting yourself in a controlled manner and gravity does the rest. You deal with the impact at the bottom by hitting first with the toes and then using the muscles in your leg to slow the movement gradually as your heel comes down and then you continue to slow the movement gradually by bending at the knee and the hip. This is how your body was designed to function. The greater the angle your joints bend through with the help from the resistance of your muscles to slow your movement the less stress you feel. It is basic physics.
Agreed, you won't ever be putting the full force on it, and perhaps the way I was wording the negative effects was misleading to the amount of prevention the actual exercise has in it, but I stand by that it's not beneficial to your joints.


Work = Force times distance. Work is energy. When stepping down there is only so much energy available from the pull of gravity. The longer the distance over which you dissipate that energy by bending joints the less force you need. If I double the distance I half the force. Proper technique, which your body instinctively knows because it results in the least effort and stress, is to use the supporting leg to support just enough of your weight so that the energy gained going down the stairs and the force on that knee is minimized while at the same time the foot that lands travels through at least as much distance as the supporting knee ensuring it never feels any more stress than the supporting knee felt. As long as you let your body do what it instinctively knows how to do this will happen. First and foremost your knees and legs are shock absorbers and they work wonderfully for that even under extreme circumstances without undue wear as long as you let them do what they where designed to do.
Yes, but ideally on grass and with no additional weight, same principle goes with horses and additional weight, their hoofs shatter and break apart unless shoed.

As long as your knees never hurt, I don't think you're doing anything wrong joint-wise, but perhaps building imbalanced muscle structure that will half vanish later in lift putting all the stress on the joints.

Going up the stairs is absolutely the most stressful part on the joints because it requires you to apply enough force to support all of your weight plus the extra force to lift that weight to the next stair and do work against gravity.
Perhaps true, but you're always in contact with the ground which means no impact. Stairs in general are so-so for your system, but try talking to a physiotherapist and see if he recommends taking the elevator to go back down the stairs, or to go both up and down.


I work out bare foot because I learn a traditional style and I respect the traditions of said style. That and the ball of my foot is a very effective weapon to kick with.
Yes, karate is very traditional.

[Azisien]

Okay so in summary don't jump down a flight of stairs carrying a fridge and if you have to, carry it in a Swiss Army bag.