Racism in the classroom

[Nikose Tyris]

I've mentioned previously to some that one of my classes features a racist professor; Several students [i.e. 25 out of 40 students] have approached me to ask for help complaining.

I'm exploring all resources possible to get assistance to write this letter as clearly as possible; I'd appreciate anyone's input to making sure this letter is as serious as possible.



TO: Alvina Cassiani, Dean, Business School
CC: Ercole Perrone, Executive Director HSF
FROM: The class of BACC 100
DATE: March 4th, 2011
SUBJECT: Gina Fernandez

Good day to you. We hope this letter finds you well. We regret that we will be writing on such a negative topic this day. A number of situations have come up that have left the classroom feeling negative and instilled a feeling of fear in my classmates. We've decided to make the effort to reach out to you, to settle this issue.

Ms. Fernandez has made inappropriate and racist comments to the class. Her words in class have prompted an atmosphere of discomfort and hate. In the student handbook, we are told that Humber prides itself on being a respectful environment that is free from fear; her words have made students uncomfortable and further discouraged the attendance on the part of the students of Indian heritage, and any attempts at questioning or polite discussion is met with snappish or demeaning replies, in the vein of, “Well, you can think that, but you're wrong.” and “I don't have time for this.”

The most prominent of her racist remarks were directed at an Indian student with an accent [his accent was thick, but he was understandable to myself, seated at the far side of the room from him]: “I know you people normally talk like 'hurburburburburburburb', but in my class you need to speak slowly, clearly and in English.” [The noise in quotations was her opening her mouth, letting her tongue lol about in her mouth and making a cry similar to cartoonish depictions of Arabic individuals]

The students face was ashen and the class was mostly silent after this remark. Classes following have furthered our belief that Fernandez has a bias against foreign students. This discrimination is unfair, and some of the class has taken action before this letter; Jennifer Villa has withdrawn from the course this semester in personal protest to the mistreatment this class has received.

This is not conducive to learning; when students successfully understand and apply their knowledge of the materials, to be penalized by a professor's lack of organization.

Of a less dire issue are the following two issues:

- Fernandez is consistently late, between 10 to 15 minutes after class is scheduled to begin.

We are expected to arrive and attend classes regularly and punctually; we attend to learn and participate in class discussions, and paid a fee for this privilege. We are entitled to a professor who is punctual so that we may meet our educational goals, or that provides a justification or forewarning that she will be late. To date, Ms. Fernandez has offered no apologies nor explanation for her tardiness or absences. The class feels we have been deprived of opportunity and time to seek assistance and aid in subjects we do not understand.

- Fernandez is consistently unorganized and unable to maintain an organized teaching method.

It is difficult to learn from a professor who does not teach from a perspective of knowing the material; it is made more difficult when the professor assigns homework verbally only, or hidden from easy access or view. To cite example, The monopoly homework sheet, attached: It does not require us to purchase houses, but she became irate with our table when we did not. It also did not adequately explain all actions or how actions were to work.

She later assigned, verbally only, to take a 10% withdrawal from equity and cash from the business; this information was not updated on a handout, nor sent out over blackboard. The only reason several students learned of this was a discussion on blackboard where another student asked for definition.

In summary, we feel that Fernandez does not follow the standards that Humber College promotes:
“Unacceptable Behaviour refers to any disruptive, unreasonable or irresponsible action or inaction which interferes with learning, health and safety, the reasonable comfort of others, or which creates an atmosphere of fear. Such behaviours will not be tolerated in the learning environment. Members of the Humber College Community are entitled to expect certain rights to be recognized. In turn, all Members are accountable for their behaviour. Responsible behaviour on the part of all Members is fundamental and essential to ensure an effective learning environment.” [From the Humber College Employee Resources located at http://hrs.humber.ca/employee_resources/conduct.php]

we feel this situation can only be rectified by one of the following solutions:

1) Non-Penalized Academic Withdrawal with full refund for this course in this semester, retroactive to Jennifer Villa; Including the non-refundable fees charged.

2) An apology to the class from Gina Fernandez in which she demonstrates that she truly regrets her actions, as well as gratis re-enrolment for all students in BACC 100 over the summer.

Thank you for your time and consideration of this letter.


Sincerely,

The class of BACC 100

[Professor Smarmiarty]

You mention other racist remarks/attitudes- list as many as you can in detail as you can. In matters like this you want on record as much as you can list. It will make your case much stronger if you have a list of detailed incidents.

[Fifthfiend]

In addition to Smarty's suggestion:

some of the class has taken action before this letter

I would say include further specifics about this; make it clear what previous steps you guys have taken to make the administration aware of this and what their response was.

I'm also not sure whether it's a good idea to include the other complaints about her teaching, especially not as prominently as they are above. Like I would say the first thing to bring up is the racism; it's your strongest point and as you say, the major motivation for your bringing up these complaints.

The concerns about lateness and shitty teaching are, regrettably, the sort of thing an apathetic administration could easily brush off. You should zero right in on the racism and hammer away at it because it's much more unlikely for an administrator to treat that lightly.

[Nikose Tyris]

It has been sometimes difficult to define which comments are racist and which are rude; she's consistently curt and rude with indian and students who profess membership in an islamic faith in particular. I'm not sure how to put this in, though. She also refuses to assist any student with a deep shade to their skin- an example from a test would be a student asking for help about whether Equity was increased on credit or debit. after sitting with his hand up and her staring at him for slightly more then 2 minutes, she sighed heavily and walked over. Heard his question, and replied fairly loudly "You'd think you'd have learned that in class. Pay attention next time." and walked away.

A few minutes later, I raised my hand and asked the same question regarding revenue. She came over immediately, and answered my question with a smile.

Edit @Fifth:
Emailed complaints to the department head have apparently been submitted with no reply; Or the student was told that 'sometimes terminology becomes difficult to understand across language barriers, and this was clearly meant in humor.' The biggest action taken was on the part of Ms. Villa, who resigned from the course.

I'm fairly confident in saying that just because "it was a joke", doesn't disregard it's potential to offend an individual.

[also @Me: Lolhypocrite, but trying not to do that shit anymore.]

Edit2 @Fifth:

Moving it around so that the racism complaint is at the top; I don't know if the arguement is strong enough to stand alone for a course withdrawal without the other points, though.

Edit3 @Fifth:
You know what, you're right. I'll make a seperate complaint about the tardiness and disorganization later, and deal with the racism upfront.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

You mentioned email complaints not being replied. Do it in person, if you are not good in person get the strongest speaker amongst the complaints to go up. If the racism is difficult to define, it would be better to be able to speak about it rather than hodge-podge in a letter. Deliver the letter by hand then talk about it.
Also take one of the students who has been discriminated against- it's much harder to just dismiss a case with a human face.
I totally agree to focus on the racism.

[Nikose Tyris]

I will be doing this in person, and taking with me David; or as she insists on calling him, "Dav-eed".

[Professor Smarmiarty]

That's not a foreign name.... that's dedicated racism that is.

[Fifthfiend]

Emailed complaints to the department head have apparently been submitted with no reply; Or the student was told that 'sometimes terminology becomes difficult to understand across language barriers, and this was clearly meant in humor.' The biggest action taken was on the part of Ms. Villa, who resigned from the course.

See I would state all of this in the letter, just so it's like, stated for the record that attempts have been made to address this previously.

Like, having the entire class co-sign a letter is a pretty major step, so it's a good idea to make it clear that you, being the very reasonable and considerate people you are, are taking this step because your previous attempts to communicate your objections and have this issue dealt with have been unsuccessful.

...I would also add, it looks like you're submitting this to the same head of the business school that you're saying people have previously contacted. Given that this person has so far been unresponsive, I would say, if there is anyone administratively higher up than this person - a dean / chancellor / whatever (I don't want to assume there is since your business school could be pretty autonomous from the rest of the school or whatever) - then CC that person in the letter and deliver a copy to them as well.

As a minor formal thing this bit

TO: Alvina Cassiani; business department head; HSF news

should be written as like

TO: Alvina Cassiani, business department head
CC: HSF news

and also make sure you're using whatever is Cassiani's specific formal title.

Back to the point about seeing if there's another administrative level above this person, IF that is the case I would say direct this letter to them before you go to the news about this issue. If there isn't then I would say you are making the right move by taking it to the newspaper.

Moving it around so that the racism complaint is at the top; I don't know if the arguement is strong enough to stand alone for a course withdrawal without the other points, though.

I don't know that you need to take those parts out altogether, mind. The racism is what you should emphasize but there's probably a place in there somewhere for a statement of like, "in addition to [this teacher's] racial insensitivity, she has performed poorly and unprofessionally as a teacher.... consistently late for classes... poorly explained teaching methods etc. etc.

[Flarecobra]

You know, if you can also get the comments recorded as well, that'd be pretty indeniable as well.

[Fifthfiend]

But anyway what I really should be saying is you and the rest of your class are pretty excellent for standing up for your classmates like this. Like I could tell you all day long about my opinions on effective letter writing but what really matters is that you're willing to step up and say that you're not willing to accept this which however you do it is 100% the right thing to do and brave as hell in a way I know I personally haven't ever had to be.

EDIT re: the below - yeah I mean I want to make it clear that anything I'm writing in this thread is just like, the best advice I can offer and just one person on the internet's opinion, you should abs. listen to other people at your university and I mean ultimately make your own judgment on what's best since it's you and your classmates who have to do this and make the statement you're gonna stand by.

[Nikose Tyris]

I obtained advice from the Humber Student Federation Executive Director- some of his advice runs slightly counter to advice gained here, and while I absolutely appreciate everyone's advice, I'm going to be slightly biased towards the advice he gave me. I'll update in a moment while I re-write some parts.

[ChaoticBrain]

The most prominent of her racist remarks were directed at an Indian student with an accent [his accent was thick, but he was understandable to myself, seated at the far side of the room from him]: “I know you people normally talk like 'hurburburburburburburb', but in my class you need to speak slowly, clearly and in English.” [The noise in quotations was her opening her mouth, letting her tongue lol about in her mouth and making a cry similar to cartoonish depictions of Arabic individuals]


...what the fuck.

Explain to me exactly how she hasn't been fired yet. Actually, I can't even imagine a person like this could even get a job as a professor in the first place.

Also, you would never get this kind of shit from professors at DePaul.

[Fenris]

We are entitled to a professor who is on punctual

This excerpt from the section regarding tardiness is grammatically unsound.

Just a head's up.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I obtained advice from the Humber Student Federation Executive Director- some of his advice runs slightly counter to advice gained here, and while I absolutely appreciate everyone's advice, I'm going to be slightly biased towards the advice he gave me. I'll update in a moment while I re-write some parts.

I would listen to this guy. He will have more experience than us, critically with experience in your school- any school specific advice you can get is ace- talk to as many people there as you can.

I also echo Fifth in that its very good of you to stand up for your class like.

[Nikose Tyris]

@Fenris: Fixed.

This is about how it's going to look for now, while I get specific detailed incidents from other classmates. Unless there's any more formatting input or re-writes that could be suggested, re: grammer and spalling and stuff.

Edit: also is it okay that I'm pants-shittingly terrified this is going to fuck up my academic career? I mean I'm doing it anyway but eep.

[Fenris]

Does Fernandez have a doctorate?

[Nikose Tyris]

Fernandez does not. She teaches ESL during the day for the last 20-odd years, and teaches Business Accounting on campus in the evenings.

I'm pretty sure she has no real professional background in accounting.

[Fenris]

Fernandez does not. She teaches ESL

Like, English as a Second Language?

But the reason I asked is that if she did I would have suggested you replace the subject with "Dr. Gina Fernandez" and all mentions of her with the appropriate "Dr." added in, but good to know she does not.

[Nikose Tyris]

Yes, like English as a Second Language. Specifically Spanish to English.

but yeah no I think "Ms." or just refering to her as Fernandez will be most appropriate.

[Fenris]

Yes, like English as a Second Language. Specifically Spanish to English.

Why would you major in TESOL if you were racist that's like being a chef if you hate food or going into aerospace engineering if you hate math.

[Nikose Tyris]

Why would you major in TESOL if you were racist that's like being a chef if you hate food or going into aerospace engineering if you hate math.

Well, please note that her racism is directed towards indian students and pretty much anyone not from the Americas. I believe she's from Mexico originally.

[Fenris]

Well, please note that her racism is directed towards indian students and pretty much anyone not from the Americas. I believe she's from Mexico originally.

I gathered.

Still. Boggles the mind.

[TDK]

Why would you major in TESOL if you were racist that's like being a chef if you hate food or going into ANY engineering if you hate math.

Fixed~


Nikose, having had a few bad teachers (though none that bad) I think you are showing real conviction, and if anything I think this would benefit your professional standing sort of thing because it would show you have the conviction to do what it right and stand up for people and that shows you have integrity.

[CelesJessa]

and taking with me David; or as she insists on calling him, "Dav-eed".

That's not a foreign name.... that's dedicated racism that is.

Just wanted to point out that Dav-eed is a legitimate pronunciation of David (I believe it's French). That doesn't mean she's not being terrible in general, but I just wanted to throw that out there.

But yeah, I echo everyone else in that it's great that you and your classmates are standing up for what's right. I hope everything turns out for you guys!

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I only accept the Hebrew pronunciation. Otherwise you're basically a terrorist

I wouldn't worry about your academic career if she not a professor or even a doctor- academia is generally pretty snooty and won't worry about someone whose not even qualifed, unless she's got some high up friends in the department- but she sounds pretty unpleasant so that seems unlikely as well.

[Overcast]

I gathered.

Still. Boggles the mind.

Some people get great pleasure out of being racist. If they can get away with being able to do it blatantly in people's faces that is even better for them. Think of it more as being a chef when you hate making food for other people, it gives you a chance to take your hate out daily.

[Premmy]

...what the fuck.

Explain to me exactly how she hasn't been fired yet. Actually, I can't even imagine a person like this could even get a job as a professor in the first place.

Also, you would never get this kind of shit from professors at DePaul.

There's not much about being racist that prevents one from being successful.

ANYWAYS. I've already given you some of my opinions on this elsewhere, so I'm just going to echo the "Good on ya" sentiments voiced here. It's great that you're all standing up against this teacher and I wish you good luck.

[Magus]

The only spelling error I found in the letter is I believe "lol her tongue about in her mouth" should be "loll her tongue about in her mouth". I'm paraphrasing but loll is how it's spelled. Also I'm not sure if loll is the right word, maybe roll? Eh, anyway. Plus that error with the use of "punctual" already mentioned.

Some people get great pleasure out of being racist. If they can get away with being able to do it blatantly in people's faces that is even better for them. Think of it more as being a chef when you hate making food for other people, it gives you a chance to take your hate out daily.

The Soup Nazi, for instance.

[Aldurin]

I approve of this thread and the intended results to come out of it. Also that professor seems like a total jerk.

[Nikose Tyris]

My tests grades moved from being borderline passing (60%) to 80%.
My first, already posted test, changed, and my second test was posted at a flat, exactly 80%.

My second test, the midterm, that I did not complete any of the 4 essay questions worth more than 30%.

I am withdrawing from the course.

[Funka Genocide]

Going to be honest here, she's probably just old. My grandmother was an ESL teacher and she'd always point out when you weren't speaking either Spanish or English correctly. It sounds like her main intent is to engender proper speaking habits in people who speak English as a secondary language. You guys sound like a bunch of reactionary protesters.

It was perhaps a culturally insensitive remark but that doesn't define someone as "a racist."

I'd suggest some cultural sensitivity training.

There is a proper way to speak English, someone who has taught ESL for 2 decades knows this and will likely try to ingrain it in her students. Again, an insensitive way to put it that likely requires some training and/or disciplinary action, but not enough to label someone a hate monger.

I mean shit, she's from fucking Mexico. I'm sure she knows what its like to be discriminated against. Try giving people the benefit of the doubt.

And getting on people for being late sometimes is total bullshit. Its all ego, I'm paying to learn blah blah blah. You're the student, they're the teacher. Its not your fucking job to keep track of her punctuality, if you don't like it then drop the fucking class. If she shows up and starts calling all indian or arabic people in her class a bunch of racial epithets then by all means, grab the torches and pitchforks, other than that Just file the appropriate paperwork if you feel so wronged and don't worry about it.

Edit: and "Da-veed" is how you pronounce David in Spanish too.

[Kim]

Going to be honest here, she's probably just old. My grandmother was an ESL teacher and she'd always point out when you weren't speaking either Spanish or English correctly. It sounds like her main intent is to engender proper speaking habits in people who speak English as a secondary language. You guys sound like a bunch of reactionary protesters.

It was perhaps a culturally insensitive remark but that doesn't define someone as "a racist."

I'd suggest some cultural sensitivity training.

There is a proper way to speak English, someone who has taught ESL for 2 decades knows this and will likely try to ingrain it in her students. Again, an insensitive way to put it that likely requires some training and/or disciplinary action, but not enough to label someone a hate monger.

I mean shit, she's from fucking Mexico. I'm sure she knows what its like to be discriminated against. Try giving people the benefit of the doubt.

And getting on people for being late sometimes is total bullshit. Its all ego, I'm paying to learn blah blah blah. You're the student, they're the teacher. Its not your fucking job to keep track of her punctuality, if you don't like it then drop the fucking class. If she shows up and starts calling all indian or arabic people in her class a bunch of racial epithets then by all means, grab the torches and pitchforks, other than that Just file the appropriate paperwork if you feel so wronged and don't worry about it.

Edit: and "Da-veed" is how you pronounce David in Spanish too.

Pffffhahahahaha...

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

And getting on people for being late sometimes is total bullshit. Its all ego, I'm paying to learn blah blah blah. You're the student, they're the teacher. Its not your fucking job to keep track of her punctuality, if you don't like it then drop the fucking class. If she shows up and starts calling all indian or arabic people in her class a bunch of racial epithets then by all means, grab the torches and pitchforks, other than that Just file the appropriate paperwork if you feel so wronged and don't worry about it.

To be honest if my teacher's going to be failing me from the class for being late you bet your ass I'm going to expect them to be showing up on time. At that, if I show up late for work consistently? I get fired because I'm an irresponsible worker. It's no different for teachers.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

There is a proper way to speak English, someone who has taught ESL for 2 decades knows this and will likely try to ingrain it in her students.
The many different accents from places that speak "English" around the world would suggest otherwise. What exactly is the proper way to speak English?
Like my pronunciation would probably be "not proper" according to American ears but I'm from an English speaking country.


And getting on people for being late sometimes is total bullshit. Its all ego, I'm paying to learn blah blah blah. You're the student, they're the teacher. Its not your fucking job to keep track of her punctuality, if you don't like it then drop the fucking class. If she shows up and starts calling all indian or arabic people in her class a bunch of racial epithets then by all means, grab the torches and pitchforks, other than that Just file the appropriate paperwork if you feel so wronged and don't worry about it.
You are paying for a service, they are not providing that service, it is within your rights to complain. You can't just drop the course, you've already paid. If I go to Mcdonalds and order a combo and they don't give me chips (equivalent to teaching for 30 minutes out of say an hour) and I complain and they say "Well you could have gone to KFC"- that's bullshit.
And you can get fired at my uni for being consistently late, for good reason. She is not doing her job, at the very least her employers should know that she is not teaching the full amount of time they are paying her for. It's the same as every other job in the world. Except corporate fatcat.

Also she may be old but doesn't excuse her behaviour. And you suggest cultural sensitivity training- which is probably what will happen as the outcome of complaining and wouldn't come about if you didn't complain.
I don't think they are clamouring to get her lynched as much as make her and the department aware of a serious problem and to fix it, ie by cultural sensitivity training if that is appropriate.
You are like "Just file the appropriate paperwork" isn't that what they are doing?

My tests grades moved from being borderline passing (60%) to 80%.
My first, already posted test, changed, and my second test was posted at a flat, exactly 80%.

My second test, the midterm, that I did not complete any of the 4 essay questions worth more than 30%.

I am withdrawing from the course.

I don't understand this bit. She increased your grades because you were complaining?

[Nikose Tyris]

I don't understand this bit. She increased your grades because you were complaining?

I believe that may be exactly what has happened. I filed a complaint, and suddenly I am an 80% student. My average is 80%, and all my marks are 80%. [This is also the class that gave me a 0 on an assignment earlier in this semester, which has magically vanished entirely.]

[natowarhead]

I don't understand this bit. She increased your grades because you were complaining?

I've had professors try to pull this trick on me as well. I've talked to four or five professors about their manner of teaching, albiet nothing as big as this.
Most of them, rather than address the issues, tried to placate me by offering higher grades for past assignments or "extra credit".
It's even happened when the problem had no correlation to grades.

I hate to think how many students actually accept such offers.

[TDK]

Its not your fucking job to keep track of her punctuality

But it is her job to

y'know

do her job.

Presumably.

[Kim]

Look forward to Funka's future posts where you aren't allowed to complain about cold food at McDonald's.

[TDK]

but what if I got a smoothie

[Fifthfiend]

Going to be honest here, she's probably just old. My grandmother was an ESL teacher and she'd always point out when you weren't speaking either Spanish or English correctly. It sounds like her main intent is to engender proper speaking habits in people who speak English as a secondary language. You guys sound like a bunch of reactionary protesters.

It was perhaps a culturally insensitive remark but that doesn't define someone as "a racist."

I'd suggest some cultural sensitivity training.

There is a proper way to speak English, someone who has taught ESL for 2 decades knows this and will likely try to ingrain it in her students. Again, an insensitive way to put it that likely requires some training and/or disciplinary action, but not enough to label someone a hate monger.

I mean shit, she's from fucking Mexico. I'm sure she knows what its like to be discriminated against. Try giving people the benefit of the doubt.

And getting on people for being late sometimes is total bullshit. Its all ego, I'm paying to learn blah blah blah. You're the student, they're the teacher. Its not your fucking job to keep track of her punctuality, if you don't like it then drop the fucking class. If she shows up and starts calling all indian or arabic people in her class a bunch of racial epithets then by all means, grab the torches and pitchforks, other than that Just file the appropriate paperwork if you feel so wronged and don't worry about it.

Edit: and "Da-veed" is how you pronounce David in Spanish too.

thats our funka

[Professor Smarmiarty]

thats our funka

New idea NPF sitcom. Casting now.

[Solid Snake]

New idea NPF sitcom. Casting now.

Starring Gary Busey as Funka Genocide
and Charlie Sheen as Nikose

[Nikose Tyris]

Starring Gary Busey as Funka Genocide
and Charlie Sheen as Nikose

Oh my god.
Yes.

[Funka Genocide]

Correction: there are correct ways of speaking English.

And yes, being late is a bad thing. Its a bad thing thats handled by one's supervisors however, not subordinates. (In this case I'm calling students subordinates.)

Yes, making fun of the way someone speaks and saying "you people" is a bad thing to do, I just don't think it makes someone a hate monger or dyed in the wool racist. Old people are old.

Just felt the thread had a certain aura of "lynch mob" hovering around it and thought it could use a less extreme voice.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

And yes, being late is a bad thing. Its a bad thing thats handled by one's supervisors however, not subordinates. (In this case I'm calling students subordinates.)

Yeah but if the subordinates don't inform the supervisors of the transgression, how will they find out about it?
The other teachers aren't going to notice, they're busy with their own classes. The supervisors don't go from class to class making sure everyone is in attendance.

So where else would they find out?

[Sifright]

Correction: there are correct ways of speaking English.

And yes, being late is a bad thing. Its a bad thing thats handled by one's supervisors however, not subordinates. (In this case I'm calling students subordinates.)

Yes, making fun of the way someone speaks and saying "you people" is a bad thing to do, I just don't think it makes someone a hate monger or dyed in the wool racist. Old people are old.

Just felt the thread had a certain aura of "lynch mob" hovering around it and thought it could use a less extreme voice.

Bullshit, the students are customers. They have every right to complain and the teacher should be fired if they don't arrive to lessons on time. This isn't a one off issue. Nikose is talking about a constant problem, if I behaved that way I'd totally get into serious shit if it carried on for any length of time and I run my department.

[Funka Genocide]

I can see what you're saying there and it would be pertinent if the tardiness was affecting the quality of the education.

So I guess it depends on whether its a legitimate issue or just a kick in the pants because people don't like the teacher.

Also sounds like a pretty bullshit class that doesn't require much "teaching" to begin with. Most non-degree specific undergrad classes are pretty much a waste of fucking time anyways.

But yes, I agree that's a relevant concern.

@Sifright: If you "run your department" I'm sure you're well aware of such issues as "staffing", "union representatives", "qualifications" and "tenure."

That's a lot of snide quotation marks in one sentence, probably went a little overboard.

[Loyal]

Just felt the thread had a certain aura of "lynch mob" hovering around it and thought it could use a less extreme voice. The entire rest of the thread had been perfectly reasonable and not at all extreme (some snarking aside) till you showed up. If all that was "lynch mob" then I don't even know what to make of the second half of your post.

I can see what you're saying there and it would be pertinent if the tardiness was affecting the quality of the education.Yeah, no. "This teacher's late all the time, but it's okay because we weren't learning all that much to begin with?"

[Funka Genocide]

Yeah I probably say fuck too much. My bad.

Also "all the time" is subjective and may or may not be entirely accurate depending on who's telling the story. Like I said, if it is an issue then yeah formal complaints are warranted. I just don't really trust anything the OP says so meh.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Would you trust it if it came from the mouth of Charlie Sheen?

[Premmy]

Funka, There's lots of perfectly good reasons to hate Nikose, Your desire to not be seen as "one of THOSE" Mexicans by disputing any and all forms of racism that isn't a lynch mob is not one of them.

[Funka Genocide]

@Smarty: Well Sheen is a total douche bag irl, but if he played the character right who knows?

@Premmy: My main point of contention here is that an instance of racism doesn't necessarily make someone a racist. I feel that's a fair point to debate and I could be wrong on that assumption.

[Marc v4.0]

Yes, because not liking someone is a valid excuse

edit: 'an instance' is not the same as 'multiple instances that are getting really disruptive and creepy'

[Solid Snake]

Yes, because not liking someone is a valid excuse

Get him talking on the subject of polyamory.
Or the topic of interacting with women in general.

You know I'm just kiddin' with ya Nik

[Premmy]

@Premmy: My main point of contention here is that an instance of racism doesn't necessarily make someone a racist. I feel that's a fair point to debate and I could be wrong on that assumption.

This says otherwise (http://www.nuklearforums.com/search.php?searchid=986217&pp=25)

Or doesn't directly involve yourself in some way

[Funka Genocide]

Well there was only one instance directly transcribed in this thread so I assumed the rest was mere exaggeration.

Admittedly, I'm half convinced the entire thing is bullshit but that's pure personal bias. If you'd like to debate the definition of a racist I'd be happy to continue, likely in another thread. If you'd like to debate my disposition please send me a pm and I might answer it depending on the tone. If you'd like to feel right about your assertions, you need only believe.

@Prems: Yes, I know. Bootstraps motherfuckers and all that.

[Premmy]

We've done that before and you're still.. well,
BOOTSTRAPS!

[Overcast]

I think what people are getting at is that it is causing a psychological effect of negativity in the classroom. People are uncomfortable, and altogether there have already been complaints that have been responded to with complacency. This one has been responded to with bribery.

This just reeks of corruption or laziness.

[Funka Genocide]

This just reeks of corruption or laziness.

Probably moreso the latter. I'm not entirely sure what the hiring process for a community college professor is but it's probably not as simple as a pre-printed application form to be a cashier at wal-mart.

Wait a minute, what the fuck am I saying? It's probably the same exact one!

But yeah, if it is indeed as bad as has been stated its probably pure laziness and apathy.

[Marc v4.0]

Well there was only one instance directly transcribed in this thread so I assumed the rest was mere exaggeration.

Admittedly, I'm half convinced the entire thing is bullshit but that's pure personal bias. If you'd like to debate the definition of a racist I'd be happy to continue, likely in another thread. If you'd like to debate my disposition please send me a pm and I might answer it depending on the tone. If you'd like to feel right about your assertions, you need only believe.

@Prems: Yes, I know. Bootstraps motherfuckers and all that.

I think the idea that you, or anyone else for that matter, think it is just plain super neato to just hop into a thread and call it all made-up bullshit is, well, bullshit of the highest quality.

[Premmy]

Probably moreso the latter. I'm not entirely sure what the hiring process for a community college professor is but it's probably not as simple as a pre-printed application form to be a cashier at wal-mart.

Wait a minute, what the fuck am I saying? It's probably the same exact one!

But yeah, if it is indeed as bad as has been stated its probably pure laziness and apathy.

I love that you're continuing on this "Well maybe they're just incredibly shitty at their job, they might be a bitch/asshole but they are NOT a racist, sir, ANYTHING but that, they may be utter scum, but I won't have you slandering their bad name!" thing

[Fenris]

Funka, stop posting in this thread.

Next post of yours that I deem to be unnecessarily over the line and rude, anywhere, at any time, for any reason, will result in at the very least a week ban, and I will bring the discussion of a permanent ban up with the other moderators.

You should really know better by now.

[Funka Genocide]

Good call, I'm not very fond of the majority of you people anyways. I just come here to rile shit up and watch people flounder in their own deluded sense of superiority. Kind of surprised I wasn't banned years ago.

This used to be a different place with a different class of people, seems all that's left are a bunch of wretched punks caught in a perpetual circle jerk.

The only amusement I get out of this place is imagining your faces turning red in rage at my audacity.

So I bid you all farewell. Some of you are pretty cool, most of you are total douche bags.

[Sifright]

Oh look a child throwing a fit.

[Marc v4.0]

If that isn't the oldest page in the book I don't know what is

[Fenris]

"I wanted to be banned. You just fell into my trap!"

"I acted like an asshole and then I was called out on it! Ha ha!"

Fucking stupid.

[Sifright]

It's not stupid it's clearly a xanthos gambit, don't you realise we've been playing into his hands all along, but no seriously that is pretty 'special'.

[Marc v4.0]

You forgot "_____ used to be good!" and "I'm too good for this place you pleebs!"

[Professor Smarmiarty]

If that isn't the oldest page in the book I don't know what is

http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa374/jmock2323/_40130085_diamondsutra203.jpg

[Archbio]

So was that Funka revealing that he was a troll all along, or that he was Dirty Harry all along?

It's the "punks" thing.

[Fenris]

For you see Frogman Funka ever so cannily posted the dumbest fucking thing I've ever seen, brilliantly tricking me into making fun of banning him for it!!

For you see he is the puppets master

and we all can but dance upon his strings

.

[Premmy]

So who get's to be the new funka?

[Sifright]

Do we have to have a new one? Why would you want to inflict that on us all?

[Fifthfiend]

For you see he is the puppets master

and we all can but dance upon his strings

Was literally just about to post this

[Overcast]

NonCon is pretty much next in line, no need to debate that.

[Premmy]

Do we have to have a new one? Why would you want to inflict that on us all?

I always assumed "Funka" was, like a disease that jumped from host to host. So I can only assume
NonCon is pretty much next in line, no need to debate that.
Noncon Fucked Funka.

[Marc v4.0]

I think Nonsies points are valid and well expressed at too high of a rate to count, at least from the limited experience I had reading Funka

[Kim]

Assholery alone does not a Funka make.

[Solid Snake]

Yeah, when NonCon gets angry there is at least usually a legitimate reason behind his rage, and sometimes he just expresses that righteous anger in a bit harsher a manner than would be necessary.

...Not really sure how he fits into this conversation or why he was even brought up, but whatevs.

[Fifthfiend]

It's a shame this good thread about an incredibly good, brave thing someone is doing had to be fartzed up by Funks being real real obtuse and debils-nadsvocate about the whole thing.

My tests grades moved from being borderline passing (60%) to 80%.
My first, already posted test, changed, and my second test was posted at a flat, exactly 80%.

My second test, the midterm, that I did not complete any of the 4 essay questions worth more than 30%.

I am withdrawing from the course.

It's amazing that someone will stoop to this kind of thing when she could much more easily just, like

apologize for being racist

then

stop being racist

Like these should not actually be substantially more difficult things for a person to do than, say, blatantly compromising their ethics as an educator.

It's a real shame you haven't been able to get anywhere with this Nikose; good for you turning down this ugly under-the-table nonsense.

...like this lady doesn't even have to mean it! She can literally just say that she means it and then act not-racist while in the classroom and then go home and hate Indian people as much as she wants on her own time.

I mean, I manage to do it every single day!

[Marc v4.0]

Look, all I'm saying is maybe, just maybe, he had a valid reason for killing all those families and eating their pets! It could be an age-culture thing, and everyone has to eat!

Just Sayin

~bothsidez~

[Premmy]

It's amazing that someone will stoop to this kind of thing when she could much more easily just, like

apologize for being racist

then

stop being racist

Like these should not actually be substantially more difficult things for a person to do than, say, blatantly compromising their ethics as an educator.

Two assumptions you're making
a: She accepts that what she did is racist
b: She gives a fuck if she does
Edit: Nik, did you, say, REPORT this sudden change? or are you just telling us, Cause that's some ballsy shit right there if so.

EditEdit: well yeah, also fuck you Fifth with your constant edits.

[Osterbaum]

So who get's to be the new funka?
I think we should come up with a system of analysis with which we could look at the posting statistics of perma-banned people from joining up until banning, and then use that data to determine who is statistically most likely to become the next in line.

[Premmy]

"You have been banned for Pre-trolling"

[Osterbaum]

That would actually be pretty excellent.

[Nikose Tyris]

I'd like to thank everyone for the support, especially Nonsy and Premms who advised me before I really posted much, and everyone else for taking this so seriously.

It seems to be stalling because classmates just... either don't care, or are scared. Like, we're looking 12 students scared to speak up, 20 completely indifferent students, and the remaining 8 are sided with me.

I'm finding out if anyone else had a grade jump as well. :/


Also: thanks to everyone who defended me against Funka; I don't often deserve it but it was a nice thing to see and gave me butterflies and shit.

Edit: addressing Premmy: I'm filing that tomorrow alongside my fulltime application.

I think I have balls.


EditEdit: Addressing the delay- My grade had leapt to an 80%, and I had a rew people trying to encourage me to just shut up and be happy at a new easy A; taking a couple days to accept the decision sits with me as appropriate, esp. since I came to the right one.

[Premmy]

Re: Scared to Speak up.

Is there any way you can have people present anonymous complaints or somesuch?

[Nikose Tyris]

Re: Scared to Speak up.

Is there any way you can have people present anonymous complaints or somesuch?

There is, but the validity of it being them and not just one or two of the 8 willing to speak up just buffering the count would be called into question fairly quickly, I wager.

Now that you mention it, I'll ask them if they'd be willing to attend and show support over a pair of cell phones with them meeting somewhere outside the school, though.

[Premmy advised me elsewhere to handle this in person, handing in the letter and making it a case on the spot.]

[rpgdemon]

Yeah, when NonCon gets angry there is at least usually a legitimate reason behind his rage, and sometimes he just expresses that righteous anger in a bit harsher a manner than would be necessary.

...Not really sure how he fits into this conversation or why he was even brought up, but whatevs.

Yeah, I haven't seen NonCon just try to outright dismiss everything that someone posted as completely made up.

[Fifthfiend]

Yeah Funka's posting here was kind of awful above and beyond even anything funka usually gets up to tbh, like we've all talked some shit about some shit here on this forum of words but when you get into things related to people's personal lives there's a different standard you gotta apply. Especially with the thing about calling people liars (especially doing so long after the fact as an offhanded excuse for shitty behavior).

[Marc v4.0]

Like we slipped in to some bizzaro world or some shit and when the trainwreck happened we all just stood around watching it play out in slow motion and I think I just wizzed that whole metaphor down my leg.

[Nique]

So.... Nikose what happened? I was totally into this thread up until funka was being funka and then again when funka was banned from being funka and it got back to business. Then it just stops. Let's have it!

[Nikose Tyris]

Whelp, I'll tell you what I have so far.

I have 4 students who have actually signed it, the rest backed out.

I have my marks at 80% and people telling me to 'just accept it and be happy'.

I have the support of a forum of generally good people and a selection of good social networking contacts in the queer and racial support communities.

I don't see anything happening with this letter at all. It's like radio silence. Classmates are saying they are seeing an improvement, but it's just as likely they're too scared to continue through with seeing something real happen about the complaints.

I feel like a failure, at this moment. I wish I had a happier response, but that's just... this is just point blank, from my brain, to this page.

Edit: like I can't even describe what I'm feeling like. My brain actually feels heavy right now. I'm getting off the computer and sleeping for a while.

[Pip Boy]

Had similar problems with a teacher at high school at one point, and unless you can point out something direct and rather extreme, they'll do all they can to simply downplay it and make it look like you're overreacting so that nobody has to make any real action based on this.

On a related note, its best to make as much as possible of this a group effort and not something you do personally. If the same person is showing up each time to complain to them (even if that one person is representing others with complaints), it seems like less of an issue than if they've got 5-6 different people marching into their office to make complaints about a teacher.

I've also found that in my dealings with large numbers of students claiming they'll back you on an issue like this, odds are most of them are going to go on and on about what a racist asshole 'insert teacher here' is, but when it comes to actually doing anything they'll suddenly find that they can deal with them after all.

[Aldurin]

Either way I'm sure you scared the teacher by actually attempting to shake her job security, she'll probably maybe not really tone it down and possibly continue to let you "earn" decent grades.

At least you tried, you'd probably feel worse if you went without trying that.

[Shyria Dracnoir]

The fact that you made any sort of stand at all is an achievement. As Aldurin said, you probably spooked her by speaking up at all, and you almost certainly made an impression on your fellow classmates, even if they didn't stand by you this time. Doing the right thing isn't always easy, and it usually takes time to see results; it's a positive reflection of your personality that you made it a point to take the harder route of making a stand rather than ignoring an obvious problem.

Stick with it if you can for as long as you can. Sure, one person complaining at once isn't the same as five people complaining at once, but one person complaining over and over for several months will wear on them like a river wears down on a canyon. It may take a while to see the results, but those results will often be profound. Who knows, maybe you'll pick up helpers later on.

[Premmy]

Whelp, I'll tell you what I have so far.

I have 4 students who have actually signed it, the rest backed out.

I have my marks at 80% and people telling me to 'just accept it and be happy'.

I have the support of a forum of generally good people and a selection of good social networking contacts in the queer and racial support communities.

I don't see anything happening with this letter at all. It's like radio silence. Classmates are saying they are seeing an improvement, but it's just as likely they're too scared to continue through with seeing something real happen about the complaints.

I feel like a failure, at this moment. I wish I had a happier response, but that's just... this is just point blank, from my brain, to this page.

Edit: like I can't even describe what I'm feeling like. My brain actually feels heavy right now. I'm getting off the computer and sleeping for a while.
Ugh I am sorry to hear this, man. Just know you've done a good thing either way and saying anything is better than letting this shit pass silently. A lot of people get trained to not be "That guy" or hear complaints about the so-called "Race card' being played that they'll get almost confrontational about fighting this kind of thing. But when anybody stands up it's a good thing.

[Nique]

like I can't even describe what I'm feeling like. My brain actually feels heavy right now. I'm getting off the computer and sleeping for a while.


Social conflict will do that to you, esspecially if it's about something important. I really hope you feel better after some rest.

[Nikose Tyris]

I'm feeling better today. Thanks for your support, everyone. I'm sorry it's not a more positive story at the end.

[Magus]

What I learned in this thread: going "chingchongchingchong" at Chinese people or "hurkadurkahurkadurka" at Arabic people is totally not racist, apparently. If you're Funka. I kinda thought he had misunderstood exactly what the teacher had said to the Indian kids, until I got to about the third or fourth post.

Sorry to hear that your classmates aren't supporting you, Nikose. No good deed goes unpunished, I'm afraid. It's the way of the world.

"...But I remember now/I am in this earthly world, where to do harm/Is often laudable, to do good sometime/Accounted dangerous folly..." Macbeth, Act 4, Scene 2.