Betrayal Day

[Professor Smarmiarty]

On the 4th of July never let us forget our darkest day, when terrorist forces unvieled themselves, stealing vast swathes of land from the empire through a dedicated campaign of violence and propaganda, capitalising on the sickness of our great king and forever blighting history with a dark swathe.
So I ask you good forum, how do you comisserate on this darkest day, how do you make sure not to forget this infamous moment so it shallnever be defeated. Myself I am building effigies to burn on the beach- years of experience building guy fawkes effigies- from full flammable gallows to popemobiles- have been turned onto our cruellest and weakest ofenemies, Washingtons wig makes a fine bounty.

[Flarecobra]

*Looks at all the other countries that used to be part of the British Empire that have since became independant*

What's with the hate-on man?

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Most of those were granted indepedence by the unending generosity and magnificence of the British crown. Or at least had the decency of gentleman to give advance notice of secession and only hold minor skirmishes.
And this was the catalyst for all of them. Once it had begun,it could not be stopped. The evil seed of descent had been planted in the soil that is the weakness of man's heart and they were supported in their audacity by their elder brother of larceny, the grand prince of crime.

And they not having a big celebration today of their villainy.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

So I ask you good forum, how do you comisserate on this darkest day, how do you make sure not to forget this infamous moment so it shallnever be defeated.

I just insult the French, berate Germans about losing the war and remind Spanish people about their last armada. It's good times.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

I just like how the Independence day Betrayal day threads are always opened by non-americans.

Shit, I don't even know how I know it's on July 4th.

EDIT: Oh, right! There was this movie.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I fail to see why betrayal day threads would be opened byAmericans. One would hope they do not glory in the sins of their ancestors.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

They could remember their past mistakes to never repeat them again? I dunno. That's how it works in Germany. We are even held accountable for World War II by our elders.

The current generation of twenty-somethings started a war that ended over 60 years ago.

Yeah, should I ever get a kid I'll blame it for everything my grandparents did.

[Magus]

On the 4th of July never let us forget our darkest day, when terrorist forces unvieled themselves, stealing vast swathes of land from the empire through a dedicated campaign of violence and propaganda, capitalising on the sickness of our great king and forever blighting history with a dark swathe.
So I ask you good forum, how do you comisserate on this darkest day, how do you make sure not to forget this infamous moment so it shallnever be defeated. Myself I am building effigies to burn on the beach- years of experience building guy fawkes effigies- from full flammable gallows to popemobiles- have been turned onto our cruellest and weakest ofenemies, Washingtons wig makes a fine bounty.

MWAHAHAHA LOYALIST SCUM! YOU WILL ALL BURN IN THE UNENDING HELLFIRE THAT COMES AT THE HAND OF THE BLOOD OF THE EAGLE! EVEN NOW THE PLANS ARE BEING MADE FOR THE WRACK AND RUIN OF ENGLAND IN THE DEEPEST WAR ROOM OF THE DARK FORTRESS. YOUR WOMEN AND CHILDREN WILL WEEP TEARS OF SULFUR AS THE BLUE COATS OF TERROR UNLEASH THE FINAL SOLUTION TO THE BRITISH QUESTION ON THE VERY SHORES OF ALBION! SOON YOU TOO WILL WORSHIP THE ONE TRUE GOD OF THE AMERICAS! DEATH TO THE INFIDELS! DEATH TO THE GREAT SATAN!

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Well I'm not encouraging anybody to go down the German path of let's remember out past but only in strictly regulated, political amenable historical units and arrest people for opposing this view or these policies.
That's nearly as bad as glorifying them.

MWAHAHAHA LOYALIST SCUM! YOU WILL ALL BURN IN THE UNENDING HELLFIRE THAT COMES AT THE HAND OF THE BLOOD OF THE EAGLE! EVEN NOW THE PLANS ARE BEING MADE FOR THE WRACK AND RUIN OF ENGLAND IN THE DEEPEST WAR ROOM OF THE DARK FORTRESS. YOUR WOMEN AND CHILDREN WILL WEEP TEARS OF SULFUR AS THE BLUE COATS OF TERROR UNLEASH THE FINAL SOLUTION TO THE BRITISH QUESTION ON THE VERY SHORES OF ALBION! SOON YOU TOO WILL WORSHIP THE ONE TRUE GOD OF THE AMERICAS! DEATH TO THE INFIDELS! DEATH TO THE GREAT SATAN!

RULLLLLE BRITANNIA, BRITANNIA RULES THE WAVES, BRITONS NEVER EVER EVER SHALLBE SLAVESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

When Britain first, at Heaven's command
Arose from out the azure main;
This was the charter of the land,
And guardian angels sang this strain:

"Rule, Britannia! rule the waves:
"Britons never will be slaves."

The nations, not so blest as thee,
Must, in their turns, to tyrants fall;
While thou shalt flourish great and free,
The dread and envy of them all.

"Rule, Britannia! rule the waves:
"Britons never will be slaves."

How's that empire going? What, you can't even conquer Vietnam, a place so small we didn't even think to map it? THE FRENCH conquered Vietnam. Now you struggling in Iraq. We conquered thanew t in the middle of a world war just cause we had nothing else to do that day.
And Afghanistan- we conquered that because we were tired of looking at Indian servants so we thought we'd get a slightly different skin colour.
Stop now guys, you're embarassing yourselves.

[Pip Boy]

Holy epic coincidence thread titles batman! Todays the day I just found out my girlfriend is cheating on me! HOOORAAAAYYYYY!

[Professor Smarmiarty]

It is truly a date cursed by God.

[Magus]

What's that? You lost twice as many soldiers in Afghanistan by 1919 than the Afghanis? And then a couple decades later some skinny guy beats you into leaving India by not eating? That's all I'm hearing here.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

We conquered both these places. And quickly. How long you been in Iraq and Afghanistan now? And what have you achieved exactly? And the less saida bout Vietnam the better.
The sun never sets on the British empire. Man we only gave up India because we had ruled so long we got bored of it, and also we are a generous and loving people who can dispense charity at will.
You guys are too afraid to even show up to World Wars until they have already been won. That's what the Italians do.

E: Oh and what about the Korean war where you lost to Britain's tea factory

[Magus]

Pretty sure the advancement of the military-industrial complex to staggering new heights is an achievement, Smarty. That's what winners do. Winners.

But I guess you wouldn't know anything about that.

Winners also unleash the dogs of war on the ancestral homelands of their mortal enemies, which is exactly what we won't be doing next year on this date. At precisely 9:45 a.m.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Oh, say, can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hail'd at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, thro' the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watch'd, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof thro' the night that our flag was still there.
O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

Edit: Fuck yeah! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcmuPc8_SWQ)

[Magus]

There are three more verses where that came from, too. Plus the song was originally about drinking. Clearly the greatest national anthem.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

There are three more verses where that came from, too. Plus the song was originally about drinking. Clearly the greatest national anthem.

People* can't handle the other verses!

*And by "people" I mean Christina Aguilera.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Pretty sure the advancement of the military-industrial complex to staggering new heights is an achievement, Smarty. That's what winners do. Winners.

But I guess you wouldn't know anything about that.

Winners also unleash the dogs of war on the ancestral homelands of their mortal enemies, which is exactly what we won't be doing next year on this date. At precisely 9:45 a.m.

But you haven't won anything! Your entire military history is glorious failure and showing up at the last minute to take the credit!
Also military industrial complex to new heights- see conquering a quarter of the globe, inventing the industrial revolution so we could killl things faster. Old hat.

[Overcast]

A slight technological, militaristic organizational advantage has lost a lot of its flavor over the years. If it wasn't you it would have been the French.

[Magus]

Oh, please, you guys couldn't even hold onto most of Ireland and its right there.

[Axoren]

I feel like a bunch of colonists writing an angry letter saying "This isn't fair!" is no where near your darkest day.

I think the Battle of Trenton should be that such "Darkest Day"; we killed your military personnel in their sleep, on Christmas.

[RobinStarwing]

Smarty...I got one thing to say to you.

Britian pretty much got what was coming to it in 1776 and throughout the Revolutionary War. Granted, you had as a few times BUT in the end...we kicked your sorry asses off this part of the continent; letting you keep Canada. You tried to take it back in 1812 but once again...we kicked you back across the Atlantic.

I'd say let the past lie Redcoat before I ask one of the Americans here to help me play Smarty Pong across the Atlantic with you!

Happy Fourth of July America! Oh and to you Brits...Happy We Kicked Your Ass Day!

[Archbio]

And here I thought that the only thing that could make me feel like marking the 4th of July was the opening (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6DPeCXV5bI) to the John Adams miniseries.

[phil_]

I thought Smarty was, like, New Zealish or something and he's just bumming around in the UK. When did he get so riled up about Fireworks and Hotdogs Day?

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Missed the fire works but least I can still see some from my house. That's cool, though I haven't seen any cool looking blasts all night in my area.

Was gonna do a CG of one of my girls (Alexcia Rain) standing on top of a battle ship cannon, dressed as Uncle Sam (minus the facial hair), shouting "America! FUCK YAY!" with the American flag in the back ground.

But after seeing this thread and how my friends have been acting lately. I rather glad I didn't do it and played Soul Calibur 4(PS3) instead.

[Marc v4.0]

Don't make us have to come kick your asses again like we did in the Australia-American War.

[Magus]

Don't make us have to come kick your asses again like we did in the Australia-American War.

My uncle still complains about the boomerang shrapnel in his leg when there's a storm brewin'.

[Aerozord]

On the 4th of July never let us forget our darkest day, when terrorist forces unvieled themselves, stealing vast swathes of land from the empire through a dedicated campaign of violence and propaganda, capitalising on the sickness of our great king and forever blighting history with a dark swathe.

Shame no one learned from this

America: "Hey thats some nice crap you got there, how about we trade for it"
Foreign Power: "Hell no! This is ours"
America: "I see" hits foreign nation in the head with a bat. "Now, what have we learned?"

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Oh, please, you guys couldn't even hold onto most of Ireland and its right there.

Cause they fucking revolted when we were saving the world from the German Empire. While you guys were shitting yourselves.

I feel like a bunch of colonists writing an angry letter saying "This isn't fair!" is no where near your darkest day.

I think the Battle of Trenton should be that such "Darkest Day"; we killed your military personnel in their sleep, on Christmas.

Betrayal!

Smarty...I got one thing to say to you.

Britian pretty much got what was coming to it in 1776 and throughout the Revolutionary War. Granted, you had as a few times BUT in the end...we kicked your sorry asses off this part of the continent; letting you keep Canada. You tried to take it back in 1812 but once again...we kicked you back across the Atlantic.

I'd say let the past lie Redcoat before I ask one of the Americans here to help me play Smarty Pong across the Atlantic with you!

Happy Fourth of July America! Oh and to you Brits...Happy We Kicked Your Ass Day!

You didn't really kick our ass in either of those wars. The War of Indepdence was a stalemate despite the fact you had the advantage of surprise, you were fighting in your backyard, lots of our troops defected to you and you didn't have to mobilise troops from a world away. Even then you didn' t beat us till the French came and saved your asses.
You didn't win the war of indepdence, France won the war of indepdence. YOu should have won fairly easily with all your advantages but you couldn't cause you a young little inexperienced child and you needed to get in old momma France to fight papa for you.

And 1812... typical American strategy there. We were fighting one of the greatest Empires in history, one of the greatest generals in history back in Europe. It was a sideshow. It's barely in our history books, crammed in between our bloody victorous battle saving the world from Napoleon... And even then, even then, we still burnt down your capital and all you achieved was the status quo, starting off where you started. And you got most of your country because we were kicking the shit out of Napoleon so he had to sell it to you, you couldn't even beat him in France yourself.
Hahaha, America. We save you fuckers from speaking French and give your your entire country by weakening the French hold on it and hold you a stalemate in your backyard and then you guys are like "hahahah, what a glorious victory we just had over British!". It's like how every time I buy a subway I think "Hahahaha, what a glorious victory over Mcdonalds".
Wait until we are in the greatest war the world had ever seen, saving it from its greatest empire before declaring war on us- real classy move there guys. I'm surprised you didn't declare yourself lord and master of all our colonies in 1941 and then go fight us for them. Would have suited your 1812 strategy.


I thought Smarty was, like, New Zealish or something and he's just bumming around in the UK. When did he get so riled up about Fireworks and Hotdogs Day?

Betrayal! You didn't only betray Britain you betrayed the Crown!

Shame no one learned from this

America: "Hey thats some nice crap you got there, how about we trade for it"
Foreign Power: "Hell no! This is ours"
America: "I see" hits foreign nation in the head with a bat. "Now, what have we learned?"

I don't recall this ever happening. What did happen through out history:
Britain: "Oh that's a nice country you got there".
Foreign country: "Go away!"
Britain: "No!" Conquers country

America: "Oh that's a nice country you got there"
Foreign country: " Go away!"
America: "No!" Gets caught in bloody stalemate for 10 years.

[phil_]

every time I buy a subwayWow, you can afford to buy the whole subway? Most people just buy a ticket. Dude, loan me, like, fifty dollars.

[Aerozord]

Smarty, you keep talking about it being a stalemate. Might I point out to you that you are bragging about stalemating a bunch of farmers and traders from a no name nation while you were the most powerful empire in the world with a highly trained military. This isn't something to be proud of.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Smarty, you keep talking about it being a stalemate. Might I point out to you that you are bragging about stalemating a bunch of farmers and traders from a no name nation while you were the most powerful empire in the world with a highly trained military. This isn't something to be proud of.

I see you subscribe to that age old myth that somehow or other the Americans managed to be the only people the British were fighting in that moment, and that they managed to beat the forces stationed here all by themselves.

[Aerozord]

I see you subscribe to that age old myth that somehow or other the Americans managed to be the only people the British were fighting in that moment, and that they managed to beat the forces stationed here all by themselves.

oh no I am well aware of that, but being the biggest dicks in the world that spread themselves over an area that was impossible to properly manage and police isn't something to be proud of either.

Brit #1: "Hey lets set up colonies that take months to get to directly next to colonies of our enemies"

Brit #2: "BRILLIANT"

Seriously what did you think would happen, we'd all just sit quietly in second class status for all of eternity?

[Professor Smarmiarty]

It's not our fault we are too successful. We ran the globe!

All I'm saying is America trumpets their fantastic military history a lot when they haen't really won any wars without some other dudes doing all the work.


Also you not second class citizens. You are essential cogs in the fantastic machine! Our glory is spread for everyone to enjoy

[Aerozord]

It's not our fault we are too successful. We ran the globe!

All I'm saying is America trumpets their fantastic military history a lot when they haen't really won any wars without some other dudes doing all the work.

you are right I forgot your great contribution during world war 2 of only being mostly crushed by Germany (lets just ignore the millions of dollars of aid we offered with no guarantee of repayment). Not like we had to send tens of thousands of troops to take a beach head because your royal air force was getting royally cornholed or anything.

Also you not second class citizens. You are essential cogs in the fantastic machine! Our glory is spread for everyone to enjoy

wasn't this the fire nations rhetoric?

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Man World War 2 we getting bombed to shit while you dudes were sunning yourself with German made mirrors. Your troops didn't show up till the war was already mostly oer- it was mopping up from them.
But yeah World War 2 was mostly Russia's victory, that's ok- we don't even need to claim that one we have plenty of other glorious campaigns unlike you dudes.

[Melfice]

Let it be known that, were it not for the fact the fucker was offered the throne, England would have been Dutch territory.

Or, at the very least, we would have held it for a couple of days.

So, I suppose I could revel in Betrayal day as well.
Except I have no idea when exactly that betrayal came for the Netherlands.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I guess you are talking about old Willy. But that's pretty much the entire historyof Europe, territories were chucked around between royals all the time. We're all friends, it works both ways. It's only those pesky colonials who we worry about.

[Melfice]

Yeah, William the Third, I think he was.
Sailed right up there, not a care in the world (except for the weather, which is why he only brought small war- and supply ships) and took the capital.

And then he goes "Fuck y'all, Netherlands. I'm gonna be English now."

As for the colonies... fuck you, England.
We could'a had America. The world language could have been Dutch, instead of English. (Assuming the rest of the continent adopted Dutch as well. And New Amsterdam grew as large as New York. But that's trivial stuff!)

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Man William (of Orange as was call him) was cool. He rocked up and had all this european style, slicked back hair, picking up all our chicks, knowledge of esoteric music and arts, we were like Ffffuckkk, please be our king.
We even call it the Glorious (or Bloodless) revolution. It wasn't so bloodless if you live in Scotland or Ireland but they barely count.

[Aerozord]

Actually now that I think about it, screw all ya-all. This is Native American territory, you british, french, whoever were all just greedy dicks. Only reason the British had a colony was thanks to friendly natives helping them survive, so in usual British fashion betrays their allies like the jerks that they are.

British are the true backstabbing two-faced liars. This wasn't your land to begin with.


Jerks

[Archbio]

Is there no loyalty to the House of Stuart?

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Actually now that I think about it, screw all ya-all. This is Native American territory, you british, french, whoever were all just greedy dicks. Only reason the British had a colony was thanks to friendly natives helping them survive, so in usual British fashion betrays their allies like the jerks that they are.

British are the true backstabbing two-faced liars. This wasn't your land to begin with.


Jerks

Hahahaha, man that was hilarious. Hahaha those natives were so stupid.

Is there no loyalty to the House of Stuart?

Fuck the house of stuart, little mincing dicks.

[Overcast]

I will admit the only great war we had was with ourselves. Which is exactly the kind of psychosis I'm sure we wanted to paint to the rest of the world. We had a slightly less great war with Japan. You guys were so occupied with that whole Europe area. We did help pretty greatly by building the science and tactics that helped keep your supply lines safe from U-boat attack, but that was support at best.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

That is why its high time to rejoin the Empire. We win lots of wars! You can be kings of the world once more. You guys look out for the Pacific, we'll take Europe and Africa and Middle East. It's all sorted.
We hae great military strategies like having troops so drilled they will walk directly into gunfire, thus psyching our opponents out. It never fails!
We can also give you heaps of tea. And sausages. And guards to stand outside your building who never move!
In exchange we only ask for a small name change, how about The United Holiday Homes of Britain?

[Magus]

Good job "saving" a bunch of European monarchies from Napoleon, he was such a "bad" leader. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon#Reforms)

[Professor Smarmiarty]

That stance pretty much explains your world war 2 dithering.
Good to know the absolute first chance you have to protect democracy in the world you actively sabotage it in favour of a tyrannical dictator. Starting as you intended to continue.

Another reason to rejoin the empire. We protect democracy!

[Magus]

That stance pretty much explains your world war 2 dithering.
Good to know the absolute first chance you have to protect democracy in the world you actively sabotage it in favour of a tyrannical dictator. Starting as you intended to continue.

Another reason to rejoin the empire. We protect democracy!

Oh yeah man the British Empire and democracy went together so well, real jolly good show there.:rolleyes:

[Professor Smarmiarty]

We were running it before the French, before America- you didn't even exist when we were murdering our king. I don't know what you're smoking, must be inferior American grown drugs. We get ours from the Dutch, old Willy hooks us up.

And you could be all like "Colonies get no vote!"- it was the 18th/19th century, slaves don't get no vote.I can guarantee you on returning to the empire you will get proportional voting rights.

[Aerozord]

I dont know joining an empire notorious for having sickly and insane monarchies thanks to generations of inbreeding seems... unwise.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Still better rulers than most of your presidents!
Who would you rather rule you, George Bush or a Queen Elizabeth aka a nazi killer! Man she totally would have disbanded parliament when Bush came in and be like, I'm having none of that shit and then put Al Gore in cause she loves her some internet.

Other reasons to join the Empire: Baby Jesus is on our side.

[Fifthfiend]

This thread's gone from maybe semi-plausible trolling to just extravagantly removed from reality.

[Aerozord]

Still better rulers than most of your presidents!
Who would you rather rule you, George Bush or a Queen Elizabeth aka a nazi killer!

if by nazi killer you mean hid while an American took control of the joint allied forces, who up until then was losing, then yes

[Professor Smarmiarty]

If by losing you mean had no possible way of winning then yes. The Nazis were only initialy successful because they completely mobilised and caught everyone by surprise. They didn't he the resources, the population or the strategy to fight an extended war against everyone. And by the time the Americans showed up the Russians were already involved which was instant game over for the Nazis.


This thread's gone from maybe semi-plausible trolling to just extravagantly removed from reality.

We don't have a national day where we can celebrate our terrible past so I'm stealing yours. Cause that's how us patriots roll.
And there is noway to commit to nationalism without endorsing cultural genocide so I just got to roll with it.

[Aerozord]

you got a real superiority complex dont you

[Revising Ocelot]

If he has one, it's to balance out my extreme inferiority complex.

[Aerozord]

If he has one, it's to balance out my extreme inferiority complex.

wonder if there is a moderation complex

[Overcast]

Right here.

[phil_]

Still waiting on that fifty bucks, Smarty.

[MuMu]

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/Zicquall/Reactions/americasoldier.jpg

[Archbio]

We don't have a national day where we can celebrate our terrible past

Brits use every day of the year instead!

[Fifthfiend]

The sun never sets on graves filled by the British empire.

[Fifthfiend]

My favorite thing is how when it was obvious their pyramid scheme made out of countries was falling apart the British made sure it did so in a way that would fuck over everyone in any of those countries for the next 50-100 years, just cuz.

[Shyria Dracnoir]

http://www.quirkins.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/bear-with-monocle-riding-abraham-lincoln-shooting-lasers-from-his-eyes1.png

Your call, Briturds

[Professor Smarmiarty]

My favorite thing is how when it was obvious their pyramid scheme made out of countries was falling apart the British made sure it did so in a way that would fuck over everyone in any of those countries for the next 50-100 years, just cuz.

You got to give your kids a good thrashing when they misbehave or they'll never learn. They'll come back to us, they're just waiting an amount of time till their pride dies down and they can justify it.
Also you seem to be implying that the empire was a one-way entity, all for the benefit of a few rich people in London. Such an idea is frankly poppycock. While it may appear on the surface that money and resources were being stripped from the world to feed the lumbering morass of London, in return we provided them with organisation, with leadership, with cultural advancement, with glory. We stumbled upon terra nulis and we left behind terra magnificus. Look at your own country. Before us it was a savage wasteland and now it is a powerhouse- all thanks to our cultural gift to you. If anything we lost out on this deal, running a world empire is most taxing and everytime we developed a place they just up and left.



Your call, Briturds



So in America bears have conquered humans and now use them as mounts?
That seems awfully the provenance of savage man.

Still waiting on that fifty bucks, Smarty.

Are you sure you want it in your toy money? I'll give you 50,000 million bucks. It's all the same.




Who do you think you are kidding Mr. Bama?
If you think we're on the run,
We are the boys who will stop your little game.
We are the boys who will make you think again.
'Cus who do you think you are kidding Mr. Bama?
If you think old England's done?

Mr. Brown goes off to town
On the 8:21.
But he comes home each evening
And he's ready with his gun.

So watch out Mr. Bama
You have met your match in us.
If you think you can push us
We're afraid you've missed the bus.
so who do you think you are kidding Mr. Hitler?
If you think old England's done.

[CABAL49]

If the British Empire hadn't dismantled the Ottoman Empire, we probably would not have seen the radicalization of Islam

If Nevil Chamberlain had told Hitler to go fuck himself rather than give him the Sudentenland, there would have not have been WW2.

Actually if Britain had handled the situation with the Kaiser better, there might not have been WW1.

The only reason the US is involved in anything these days is because we listened to Winston Churchill. We were just find minding our own business when you Europeans kept having all these big wars. I mean seriously. Just leave us alone.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I like how all your solutions for Islam and World War 1 are basically- keep the autocratic ruler in charge because he suits our interests. This does fit in with US diplomactic strategy.

And how does starting World War 2 earlier mean there is no world war 2?
And your political and economic power all comes about because of your convient meddling in our wars. World War 2 hooked you guys up, while we were being murdered you were profiteering out the nose!

[Pip Boy]

World War 2 hooked you guys up, while we were being murdered you were profiteering out the nose!

Yeah, to me it sounds like we're kind of kicking your silly british tea-sipping asses.

[Overcast]

We are kicking many asses. Not theirs though, we have just forced them into a habitual dependence. Even Canada is less dependent on us than they are.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Because we are saving the world while you are profiting off side-deals with its destroyers!

[Overcast]

Partway true, US industries are profiting, the continent isn't doing quite so well. And with our crap political system we have nowhere to go but down. We'll probably rejoin the empire at some point if you can save us from whatever happens to us when this all comes to a head.

[Ecks]

The only Empire I want to be a part of is the one James Earl Jones is choking people in.

[The Kneumatic Pnight]

And how does starting World War 2 earlier mean there is no world war 2?

It would, in many ways, depend on the interplay of war and diplomacy after the outbreak of war but, at the time the Munich Agreement, the Czechoslovak military was better equipped and more quickly mobilized than the Reich's, and the Czechoslovak Republic had the support of the Soviet Union while the Tripartite Act of the Axis Powers would not exist for another two years. Further, the Reich had, by that time, set up approximately zero of its major fuel supply and production chains.

While it is entirely possible that the diplomatic keys could've fallen into place because of the outbreak of war, or that the Reich could've won with superior manpower and productive capacity, the stage might also have been set for a hilarious Czechoslovak offensive deep into Greater German territory, or for the Germans to throw themselves against the Czechoslovaks' greatly-superior version of the Maginot Line while Soviet Union mobilized and came pouring in, or any number of other minor humiliations to shake up the then-tenuous Nazi hegemony.

Actually if Britain had handled the situation with the Kaiser better, there might not have been WW1.

An argument can be made about the inevitability of the Kaiser's conflict with France as a legacy of the Franco-Prussian War and the relationship of that between Bourbons' insatiable badtouch of the Holy Roman Imperial territories because of their fear of the von Habsburgs. I mean, arguably if the UK didn't have such a creepy fixation on Belgium the war would have been several smaller, much less horrible wars. And, it's important to remember that most of the inevitable parts of history went on to not happen regardless so that may be irrelevant.

However, the whole Bourbon-Habsburg issue would've been avoided altogether if the Plantagenets had simply won the Hundred Years War. I mean come on. You had one-hundred years, and all of the best allies on your side.

[CABAL49]

Stuff about dem Nazis

At that point the Nazis would not have had a chance against France and Britain and Chamberlain accepted Hitlers promise that he would play nice with everyone else. I mean, I get that WW1 was not that long ago, but still.

The reason Hitler had to do the things he did when he did was that Germany would have collapsed regardless.


Kaiser

I don't really think anyone could have prevented WW1. It would have taken a way of thinking that was developed because of WW1 and 2. The German Empire at the time was trying to copy Britain's navy, and the British started to get pissed off because German Industry was catching up to Britain's. And Britain kept scolding Germany for picking on France. Germany just wanted Morocco. Was that so much to ask? (Pretty much apparently.)


One other thing about Britain and war. How did it feel to lose to a 14 year old girl?

[Archbio]

I don't really think anyone could have prevented WW1.

Listening to Bismarck a little longer might have prevented it!

[Overcast]

Bismarck is dildos.

[Archbio]

Blood and iron dildos!

[Archbio]

Only, it's not his blood.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

It would, in many ways, depend on the interplay of war and diplomacy after the outbreak of war but, at the time the Munich Agreement, the Czechoslovak military was better equipped and more quickly mobilized than the Reich's, and the Czechoslovak Republic had the support of the Soviet Union while the Tripartite Act of the Axis Powers would not exist for another two years. Further, the Reich had, by that time, set up approximately zero of its major fuel supply and production chains.

While it is entirely possible that the diplomatic keys could've fallen into place because of the outbreak of war, or that the Reich could've won with superior manpower and productive capacity, the stage might also have been set for a hilarious Czechoslovak offensive deep into Greater German territory, or for the Germans to throw themselves against the Czechoslovaks' greatly-superior version of the Maginot Line while Soviet Union mobilized and came pouring in, or any number of other minor humiliations to shake up the then-tenuous Nazi hegemony.

But then again large swathes of the population of the Sudetenland (I rmeember it being 80-90%), including much of the owners of the critical factories wanted to join Germany and could just have easily have deserted- same as waht happened with large parts of the French. There would have been no population support for a defence and likely active resistance. They didn't just arbitrarily give Sudentenland to Germany for no reason- thepeople wanted to join Germany.
And also everyone talks about how super good Czech defences were, they said the same thing about France. It's hard to know how it would can go.



An argument can be made about the inevitability of the Kaiser's conflict with France as a legacy of the Franco-Prussian War and the relationship of that between Bourbons' insatiable badtouch of the Holy Roman Imperial territories because of their fear of the von Habsburgs. I mean, arguably if the UK didn't have such a creepy fixation on Belgium the war would have been several smaller, much less horrible wars. And, it's important to remember that most of the inevitable parts of history went on to not happen regardless so that may be irrelevant.
World War 1 was inevitable. Timing might have been different but thetensions and alliance systems meant it couldn't be avoided. It's not really about Bourbon/Von Hapsburg rivalries- it was more about burgeoning sense of nationalism tied to imperialism with a background of past injustices. Nobody really gave a shit about the old families, that is why World War 1 was completely different to say the 7 years war or the war of spanish succession which were much more confusing with territories constantly swapping sides and interplayed alliances and mercaneries everywhere. It was about countries and nation states.


The old Schlieffen plan and Plan 17 also meant any outbreak of conoflict
would quickly escalate.


However, the whole Bourbon-Habsburg issue would've been avoided altogether if the Plantagenets had simply won the Hundred Years War. I mean come on. You had one-hundred years, and all of the best allies on your side.

Hundred years war was Frenchmen fighting other Frenchmen. We didn't give a shit!
But the Frenchmen who were more French had God on thier side.
Also the house of Valois basically bankrupted itself while Plantegenets rolled around in solid gold limos afterwards.

[Archbio]

It was about countries and nation states.

And not planets and galactic empires?

[Professor Smarmiarty]

No that was the 30 years war.

[Archbio]

Which was a great triumph for the glory of Sontar!

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I thought the ant people won that one.

[Archbio]

Going back to World War I being inevitable, as much as it might be wrong to say something like that saving the archduke would have prevented World War I, "World War I is a natural outgrowth of the rise of European nation states" would be another questionable absolute.* From what I recall, the specific configuration of the Triple Entente/Central Powers dynamic (that Bismarck actually tried to avoid precipitating forming) was crucial to making it virtually inevitable.

Now obviously if the Kaiser didn't fuck it up with his mad attraction to weltpolitik this time, something else might have a little later. Can't really argue with the plausibility of things that have already happened, I guess.

*Not saying that's what's anybody's saying here. "Inevitable" just gets my hackles up. And it's not like nobody ever says that there's a deterministic course of history going nation-states > world war > superpowers > single superpower hegemony/international worker's paradise. So I'm not being a contrarian. If nobody's leaning that way just kind of ignore that part.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

The assassination was just a catalyst. If they didn't happen something else would. It was pretty irrelevant what. Even looking at just Serbia, they were going to revolt anyway- the rebels had a lot of support, a lot of higherups in various governmental facilities and had equpiment and training and Austria-Hungary was going to declare war on them anyway, stoppiong the assassination wouldn't really stop that. And if Serbia didn't do, one of the other vassals of Europe would do it- the various Ottoman properties were ripe for rebellion as were other Austrian properties. Somebody was going to do it and when they did everybody already had a side.
Those minor republics wanted indepedence and they were going to fight for it, no real way to stop it.

[Archbio]

stoppiong the assassination wouldn't really stop that.

I think that's what I implied, yes.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

You are assuming I actually read other peoples posts and don't just summarise the first five words in my head.
We created a world empire so we wouldn't have to read!

[Ecks]

And not planets and galactic empires?

Ha! Archbio got it! All hail Emperor Palpatine! For the Empire!

[CABAL49]

I'll take the Empire of the Hand thank you very much. Ha ha haaa......

[Seil]

http://satwcomic.com/art/parenting.jpg

[CABAL49]

Britain is just the bastard love child of the French and Germans. America is the bastard love child of the rest of the world.

[Melfice]

Britain is just the bastard love child of the French and Germans. America is the bastard love child of the rest of the world.

Britain's bloodline is a bit more complicated than that, really.

There's Danish blood in there as well. Probably some Norse and Swedish too.
But the main influence would be German and French, yeah.
And, of course, the Gaelic people.

[rpgdemon]

Britain's bloodline is a bit more complicated than that, really.

There's Danish blood in there as well. Probably some Norse and Swedish too.
But the main influence would be German and French, yeah.
And, of course, the Gaelic people.

HAW BRITAIN IS COMPOSED MAINLY OF GAY LICKS.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

America is composed of those too crap even for Britain though

[Ecks]

Child of the German master race here: Britain can lick our jackboots.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Child of the German master race here: Britain can lick our jackboots.

You know a few of us might be aware of what happened the last time the Germans went on about Master races and whatnot.

Just sayin'.

[rpgdemon]

You know a few of us might be aware of what happened the last time the Germans went on about Master races and whatnot.

Just sayin'.

Coincidentally, they were trying to get the British to lick their jackboots then as well.

[Overcast]

This time we strike, preemptively.

[Ecks]

To be completely fair: last time it was one Austrian guy who had a massive inferiority complex and issues with members of his own ethnicity being scapegoats for socioeconomic problems. Clearly, there was no one who could've stopped him before he got too cocky.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

To be completely fair: last time it was one Austrian guy who had a massive inferiority complex and issues with members of his own ethnicity being scapegoats for socioeconomic problems. Clearly, there was no one who could've stopped him before he got too cocky.

Yeah. One Austrian guy.

Suuuuuuure.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

Not just one Austrian guy. One Austrian guy with a funny mustache and some kinda speech impediment that allowed him to say whatever he wanted but each individual understood whatever they wanted.

[Loyal]

To be completely fair: last time it was one Austrian guy who had a massive inferiority complex and issues with members of his own ethnicity being scapegoats for socioeconomic problems. Clearly, there was no one who could've stopped him before he got too cocky.

If only... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABDm2JcnTPs)

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Man the historiography of Hitler's role in the Nazi is hilarious. I did an essay on it once and seriously half the historians say that he basically did nothing, knew piss all about what was going on and had little real power and the other half are like he was the guiding force, he had a lot of power and he made a lot of key decisions. It is a massive bitchfight.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

If only... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABDm2JcnTPs)

Why does this video from Red Alert use the Hell March version from Red Alert 2?

[Loyal]

What are you talking about, no it doesn't. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WqwFhX6Cqg)

[Magus]

Man the historiography of Hitler's role in the Nazi is hilarious. I did an essay on it once and seriously half the historians say that he basically did nothing, knew piss all about what was going on and had little real power and the other half are like he was the guiding force, he had a lot of power and he made a lot of key decisions. It is a massive bitchfight.

It seems like he either had a large amount of power or was good at playing different factions against each other to create the illusion he had a large amount of power (which amounts to the same thing in the end).. For example, there were lots of generals that felt his war strategies were terrible, but they were either overruled because of fear of Hitler's total power, or because there were a bunch of other generals who agreed with his position and he used them against the other ones to create the illusion he had total power. We wouldn't know unless we were privy to secret war documents probably long lost to time.