The Unpopular Opinions

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Today's been my first Saturday since school started up again so I've been watching movies all day. Mostly some comic book movies on TNT with occasional breaks. While watching these movies it came to my attention that I hold some rather unpopular opinions.


I like Ang Lee's Hulk more than the newer one.
I like the Watchmen movie more than the comic.
I think that Daredevil is almost as good as The Dark Knight.
The 2004 Punisher is awesome and anyone who says different is wrong.
Akira is some horseshit.
And most controversial of all, Ben Affleck is one of the most underrated actors of all time.

These are just a few of some very unpopular opinions that I have. Do any of you out there have some opinions that you feel are rather unpopular? Feel free to put them out there because I just threw nearly all of my credibility out the window in one quick post.

[BitVyper]

Highlander 2 is a good movie.

Now we wait.

[Nikose Tyris]

I acknowledge the existence of Devil May Cry 2; in fact, it was the first DMC game I played, and holds a special place in my heart.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

I like Ang Lee's Hulk more than the newer one.
Stupid
I like the Watchmen movie more than the comic.
Acceptable if you're illiterate.
I think that Daredevil is almost as good as The Dark Knight.
Acceptable if you're blind.
The 2004 Punisher is awesome and anyone who says different is wrong.
No you got that backwards anyone who says it's awesome is wrong.

Akira is some horseshit.
Jesus fucking christ.
Akira?
That Akira?
Fuck me with a pogo stick what the hell.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Stupid

It feels like a more complete movie than the Norton one (which felt rather disjointed). Maybe if they restored his original cut, I would feel different. As it stands, I enjoy the Hulk as a good movie with compelling themes. Sure there were some bits that didn't quite work but it didn't kill the entire thing.

Acceptable if you're illiterate.

I don't care too much for Alan Moore's writing (he's overrated in my book even though I love V for Vendetta) and the art didn't really grab me. Plus, so much of the book went into overexplaining things that didn't need explanation and I thought replacing the squid in the movie was a great idea.

Acceptable if you're blind.

Have you seen the director's cut?! Despite sloppy execution in some areas, it beat Nolan to the punch much earlier.

No you got that backwards anyone who says it's awesome is wrong.

It was a great revenge movie and a better Punisher movie than the other films to carry the name. I don't even like the Punisher as a character but I found that movie to be damn right compelling.

Jesus fucking christ.
Akira?
That Akira?
Fuck me with a pogo stick what the hell.

Great animation, cool concepts, interesting characters; all hampered by a shitty plot. I mean, what the hell was that shit? And I'm not even talking about the ending. The enter thing felt so laborious and uninspired for a film with such a great concept.

[Kim]

Yeah the Akira movie was pretty crap. That's not even an unpopular opinion. It's the right one.

[Bells]

Akira sucks... really.

and Evangelion (old one) is fun because it's quirky, and it's backstage story is actually almost better than the anime itself. But it's not the Hallmark of Anime as Art as some claim.

I Enjoyed Dragonball Evolution as a movie because i wasn't expecting it to be faithfull representation of the Anime, so as that, it worked.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Great animation, cool concepts, interesting characters; all hampered by a shitty plot. I mean, what the hell was that shit? And I'm not even talking about the ending. The enter thing felt so laborious and uninspired for a film with such a great concept.

Not gonna defend the plot too hard (Shitty seems pretty harsh to me but whatever) but c'mon. Really?

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Not gonna defend the plot too hard (Shitty seems pretty harsh to me but whatever) but c'mon. Really?

I grade things almost solely on story (with a few notable exceptions) and I just didn't find it compelling. It didn't live up anywhere near the promise that it had at the start.

[The SSB Intern]

Cyclops is cooler than Wolverine.

Ed, Edd, and Eddy was a great cartoon that actually tried a lot of inventive concepts while keeping to the same formula.

Blondes aren't all they're hyped up to be.

[Red Fighter 1073]

I never really understood why everyone hates Dragonball GT. I mean, I see SSJ4 Goku/Vegeta, Golden Oozaru, Gogeta fusion, and think it's pretty cool stuff. (Though admittedly, I've only seen the first 20 or so episodes, basically up until the middle of the Baby Saga).

Blondes aren't all they're hyped up to be.

This. This right here. I don't see why everyone goes crazy over blondes. Brunettes, however, are a different story ^^

[Bard The 5th LW]

i like mint ice cream and all my friends wonder why

edit: I also like 'A Christmas Carol' a bit but all of my other classmates hated it.

[Solid Snake]

* Final Fantasy VI is overrated. (Oooh boy, I got in trouble for that one way back in the day.)
* Final Fantasy VII is not overrated.
* Frasier is a vastly superior show compared to Cheers, let alone other renowned '90s sitcoms like Seinfeld and Friends.
* Dennis is the best character on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. Glenn Howerton is underrated and a necessary ingredient for the show.
* Clash of Kings is the worst book in the Song of Ice and Fire series.
* Tails was the best character in the 2D-era Sonic games. (I haven't played enough 3D-era Sonic games to particularly care.)
* Terrans are the best Starcraft faction.
* Even with its numerous faults and bugs, KOTOR 2 is a better written, more nuanced game that deserves more recognition than KOTOR. Now that it's been patched through mods, there should be no question that KOTOR 2 is the superior game.
* Front Mission 3 was the best SRPG of the PS1 era. Final Fantasy Tactics can barely begin to compare.
* Darkwing Duck and Aladdin: The Animated Series were the two best '90s-era Disney cartoons. (The most common answers are 'Duck Tales' and 'Chip and Dale Rescue Rangers.')
* Lloyd Alexander's Prydain Chronicles series is better written than Harry Potter, Twilight, Lord of the Rings, or any other so-called 'fantasy' series written for an audience of children and teenagers.
* In the books and the movies, Gimli was the best character in the fellowship.
* Franziska von Karma would totally make a better relational partner for Phoenix Wright than Maya, Iris, Edgeworth, or any of the number of possible love interests floating around.
* For that matter, when it comes to FFVII shipping, Aeris and Cloud >>>>>>> Tifa and Cloud. It's not even close.
* Batman: The Animated Series was and still is horribly, horribly, horribly overrated. Spectacular Spiderman was a far better superhero cartoon despite not lasting nearly as long.

Maybe I'll add some more as I think of them.

EDIT:

Cyclops is cooler than Wolverine.

This is 100000% true and should not be debated.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

* Batman: The Animated Series was and still is horribly, horribly, horribly overrated. Spectacular Spiderman was a far better superhero cartoon despite not lasting nearly as long.

You're wrong.

It's actually better because it didn't last nearly as long.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I never really liked Wolverine at all for some reason.

[Marc v4.0]

Bishop is the best X-Men character and Gargoyles can kick the ass of ANY 90's-era animated series.

Any of them.

[Bells]

The Episode Epilogue of Batman beyond if the best final Conclusion of the Batman Mythos.

[McTahr]

* Lloyd Alexander's Prydain Chronicles series is better written than Harry Potter, Twilight, Lord of the Rings, or any other so-called 'fantasy' series written for an audience of children and teenagers.


Whaaat?

LotR and Middle Earth was written mostly as a vessel for Tolkein's Sindarin. If he wrote it for kids it wouldn't have been so fucking looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooong.

I've never read any of the rest, so the rest of your opinion is whatevs.

[Kim]

Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker is the best Batman movie ever made.

[Solid Snake]

I'm drawing the line there between "fantasy materials with mature content" (like George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire series) against "fantasy materials that follow a stereotypical children's good against evil, good always wins in the end formula" (which LotR follows to the letter.)
I also read LotR first when I was, like, twelve or thirteen.

[McTahr]

Yeah, just like, implying that LotR was written with the same intentions as Twilight and Harry Potter is like implying that Karen Katz (http://www.amazon.com/Karen-Katz/e/B001H6TYBW) has the same intentions and goals as Stephen King when she sits down at her desk.

When you experienced it and the formula of the plot have nothing to do with the target audience. Old time-y mysteries are some of the hokey-ist kiddie shit you see how there and yet I don't see the teens lining up to buy'em.

[Kim]

I'm drawing the line there between "fantasy materials with mature content" (like George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire series) against "fantasy materials that follow a stereotypical children's good against evil, good always wins in the end formula" (which LotR follows to the letter.)
I also read LotR first when I was, like, twelve or thirteen.

That really doesn't say anything about what audience it was written for. I really hate the idea that something isn't intended for a mature audience unless it's graphic in some respect, which isn't what you mean but definitely seems to be a subtext to your post.

[Solid Snake]

*shrug* Y'all are over-analyzing what are my very subjective and biased opinions in a thread explicitly asking for subjective and biased opinions.

Thirteen-year old Snake read the Prydain Chronicles around the same time he read Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter entered into the realm of popular fantasy shortly thereafter. Yes, LotR is 'better written' than Harry Potter, but it's still a very similar idealistic formula. Good triumphs over evil after sacrifices, the worst aspects of medieval societal life are ignored, it's written more fantastical and less 'realistic.' LotR is easier to compare to Potter or Prydain than Song of Ice and Fire, which is dripping with sex and violence. I'd let a bookworm thirteen year old hypothetical child of mine read any of the former, definitely not the latter.

Yes, including LotR and Twilight in the same sentence is extraordinarily offensive to Tolkien in and of itself, but the point of my sentence was just to flout my unpopular opinion that Prydain Chronicles was better than either, not to assert that LotR and Twilight were by any means of similar merit as works. An objective rating by me would rank Prydain and LotR far higher than the others, but why stress that when it's not such a minority opinion and that's not what the thread is asking for?

[Loyal]

Ed, Edd, and Eddy was a great cartoon that actually tried a lot of inventive concepts while keeping to the same formula.Yes.

Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker is the best Batman movie ever made. And yes.

[McTahr]

I'm not even talking about offense. Like, if you had simply claimed it was better written than any of the others you listed, I would let it go simply because I've no right to judge the series I haven't read, which is quite frankly all of them aside from LotR. I personally couldn't care which is better of the group, mostly because I couldn't care less for Tolkein's describe-the-fuck-out-of-everything writing style. (Because he's trying to establish his world for his language etc, hey-ooo.)

It's that I'm not over-analyzing so much as questioning your implication that the book written purely for a scholarly endeavor of encapsulating Tolkein's made-up language was instead geared for the teen and young reader audience.

I work in a bookstore, yo. That young reader section, where you find Harry Potter, where you are implying Tolkein wrote for? It's loaded with books that still limit the words per page and use big text.

Edit: In summation, your opinion is perfectly shibby with me. I'm just nitpicking as I'm wont to do on occasion. Don't take it personally or anything.

[Solid Snake]

I work in a bookstore, yo.

So did I, part-time from 2001 to 2004.
While I worked there I saw LotR on high school reading lists and I saw younger kids purchase the title.
I never saw Song of Ice and Fire or similar works merited with such a distinction.
...I'm not even sure why I'm arguing this, by definition this is an unpopular opinions thread and people should be entitled to hold onto their unpopular opinions here. >.>

[Kim]

I'm not sure an unpopular opinion thread is, by its nature, a thread wherein we aren't allowed to tell people their unpopular opinions are wrong.

I read the Hot Zone in high school and the Andromeda Strain in middle school. I wouldn't say either was *written* for teens.

[McTahr]

Pretty much my entire last post, over again.

I'm not questioning your opinion. I'm questioning the stipulations that surround it. If you want to say that such and such series is better for teens than LotR, whatever. Like I said two times now, I've never read them and couldn't care for Tolkein's style anyway. I'm not defending him.

I'm questioning the implication that Tolkein is written for that specific audience. I just don't see it.

Re-read me, yo. You've been welcome to your opinion from the get-go and there's no need to get defensive.

E: Just like, the entire thing Non and I are getting at I think is this:

So did I, part-time from 2001 to 2004.
While I worked there I saw LotR on high school reading lists and I saw younger kids purchase the title.

Does not mean "Tolkein is written for teens and younger kids."

[Solid Snake]

I'm questioning the implication that Tolkein is written for that specific audience. I just don't see it.


It was an utterly supplementary component to my argument that I barely put two seconds into given the fact that this isn't a 'Serious' thread, to be quite honest.
As for me misinterpreting you I'll just note that I posted my most recent response before I had the chance to read your Edit, which made things perfectly clear.

EDIT: Like from my perspective you and NonCon are basically 100% right from a serious scholarly perspective, but I didn't actually post my initial comment with any intention of labeling Tolkien as 'written for children,' and though I suppose my initial argument was poorly worded I didn't expect in a joking thread about subjective unpopular opinions that I'd actually be grilled and talked down to for mislabeling Tolkien as 'kiddy fiction' when I in fact intended to start a number of more juvenile, less serious arguments about the subjective quality of certain series. Interpreting my post from a serious objective perspective and then blasting me for failing to correctly articulate the argument you nonetheless apparently knew I was trying to make subsequently took the fun out of things.

[McTahr]

It was an utterly supplementary component to my argument that I barely put two seconds into given the fact that this isn't a 'Serious' thread, to be quite honest.
But somebody is wrong on the internet!!! (http://xkcd.com/386/)
As for me misinterpreting you I'll just note that I posted my most recent response before I had the chance to read your Edit, which made things perfectly clear.

Cool cool. I desire no beefsicles or other bovine products. I just spaz edit sometimes. Understandable that one could go un-noticed.


Anyway! On to the topic.

I don't like Christopher Nolan or anything he does. My friends are appalled by this, and refuse to acknowledge knowing me should I profess my opinions in public.

[Yrcrazypa]

I find the Call of Duty series to be horribly, horribly boring.

[Ryanderman]

At World's End is the best Pirates of the Caribbean movie. The plot is not confusing. The protagonists act in character as established in the previous movies, the climax is suitably epic, and the music is absolutely beautiful.

Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is a fun movie that successfully captures the essence and spirit of Raiders of the Lost Ark, and is no more absurd than any other Indiana Jones movie.

Ketchup ruins anything it touches.

[Aldurin]

Homestuck is a poorly written excuse for a webcomic with horrific art and an author with no talent.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I was never particularly impressed by The Beatles.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

I was never particularly impressed by The Beatles.

On that note, I hate everything about John Lennon aside from his music with the Beatles. The guy was a pretentious prick.

[Archbio]

Nirvana's original songs are all shit.

Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is a fun movie that successfully captures the essence and spirit of Raiders of the Lost Ark

Raiders of the Lost Ark. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6-rQ6Jay6w)

Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZoFVh2cNf4&t=9m10s)

As I recall they also "reference" Marcus Brody by driving through him.

[EVILNess]

Let's do this by category.

Videogames:
* FF5 is the best Main Final Fantasy. FFT wins for games with Final Fantasy in the title.
* DQ8 is the best Dragon Quest.
* Breath of Fire is a better series than Final Fantasy.
* Earthbound was in fact the best RPG on the SNES.
* Megaman Legends is the best Megaman series.
* Link's Awakening is the best Zelda game.

Comics and Manga:
* Superman was never resurrected after his fight with Doomsday.
* Peter Parker is a detriment to the fun quotient of Spiderman comics. Ultimate Peter Parker was somewhat immune to this, but they went and killed him.
* The Walking Dead is fucking fantastic, but I hate reading it because fuck the bad things that happen.
* The guy who does One Piece, Oda, is the master of Chekov's Gun.
* Tite Kubo is a genius.

Cartoons:
* Extreme Ghostbusters was a fucking awesome show.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

The guy who does One Piece just needs to eat a gun.

[Kerensky287]

AC/DC is kind of bad.

The Beastie Boys are fucking wretched and have literally no redeeming factors.

The Black Eyed Peas would be much better off if Fergie wasn't involved.

Golden Sun has the potential to be the best JRPG series on the planet.

Command and Conquer: Red Alert 3 was a pretty cool game.

The Star Wars prequels were ruined 100% by George Lucas's crappy writing and not, in fact, by Hayden Christiensen.

[Kim]

* Link's Awakening is the best Zelda game.

While I technically consider this incorrect, it's close enough to correct that I'm willing to give it a thumbs up. It's pretty up there.

[Azisien]

I actually have a post-it note ready to write down who defends the live-action Last Airbender movie so I can stick it on my desk beside the monitor and always know who to hate with a passion.

Movies/Comics:

Surprisingly agree with most of the OP.
-Prefer Bana Hulk to Norton Hulk, by and large. Norton Hulk had better villain, though.
-I'd say the Watchmen movie is at least equal to the comic in its respective medium. It's an incredible, modernized adaptation for the screen. To date, it's also my favourite comic book movie, trumping Dark Knight.
-Tom Jane Punisher was better.
-Every Pirates of the Caribbean movie after the first was garbage.
-V for Vendetta the movie is solidly better than the comic, though I like the comic for some of its differences in atmosphere.

Games:

-Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion is a pretty shitty game. Shitty polish, awful textures where it matters (FACES), overly abundant loads, terrible story, ugly spells, completely one dimensional questing. It's best quality is the leveling system, which got worse from Morrowind, and just HOW bugged it is. It's telling that to make the game fairly playable, you need 20GB of mods.
-Halo 2 is my favourite of the series.
-However, the Halo series is shit forever, for introducing regenerating health to the shooter genres. It is the worst feature to get added to games in recent memory. Worse than DRM. I'd rather have DRM and no regenerating health in any games.

Misc:

-d20 Modern is still my favourite pen and paper RPG of all time, trouncing D&D no problem. It's balance issues are more numerous but easily fixed. Pathfinder might be a contender, though not technically D&D anymore.

[Premmy]

The Black Eyed Peas would be much better off if Fergie wasn't involved.

Better off? no.
Better as a group?
Yes. (http://youtu.be/CjWXWTKa5kI) It's been proven (http://youtu.be/y0HqsIr6itk)
Cyclops is cooler than Wolverine.
Much love
Ed, Edd, and Eddy was a great cartoon that actually tried a lot of inventive concepts while keeping to the same formula.
Hell yes

[Nique]

I have a few:

TV/ FILM:

-Seconding the sentiment about Ang Lee's 'Hulk'. Just as good as the 2009 film, minus maybe some technical improvements.

-Denise Crosby was a good actress and Tasha Yar was a character with loads of potential that wasn't explored properly until long after she was given the boot.

-Speaking of Star Trek, Gene Roddenberry had a great creative vision but was not skilled in producing consistently good television. Star Trek's success lay more so on the shoulders of leaders like Rick Berman, Brennon Braga, Micheal Piller, Jeri Taylor, and Ira Behr as well as their teams. I know everyone hates Braga and Berman for 'Enterprise' (including my own rants over the years) but they forget how well TNG, DS9, and VOY did under Berman's leadership and a lot of Braga's writing.

-Superman Returns was a good film whose only mistake was tying itself to the original Christopher Reeves films which, nostalgia notwithstanding, have not aged gracefully. I guess that's a twofer.


VIDEO GAMES:

-Final Fantasy as a whole is totally overrated but still really great down to nearly every game in the series. So it's an extra unpopular opinion becuase it punches both camps sqaure in the nuts.

-Uncharted kind of sucks.

-There is a fundamental problem with the FPS genre in it's ability to deliver a truly satisfying experience rather than a placating one. Portal and a rare few other titles could be the exceptions that prove this rule.


LITERATURE:

-Swords are not penises. Unless they are.

[greed]

Uncharted does kind of suck yeah. Oblivion is terrible yes.



* Even with its numerous faults and bugs, KOTOR 2 is a better written, more nuanced game that deserves more recognition than KOTOR. Now that it's been patched through mods, there should be no question that KOTOR 2 is the superior game.


* Franziska von Karma would totally make a better relational partner for Phoenix Wright than Maya, Iris, Edgeworth, or any of the number of possible love interests floating around.


Agree on both points, with the caveat to the second point that they still shouldn't be together because Adrian is a better partner to Franziska than Phoenix is.


Also Sevenshot your opinions aren't unpopular that's the problem, they're just terrible and all too common. You are the lowest common denominator. I mean Daredevil being better than the Dark Knight. Fuck it's barely better than Fantastic 4 and X-men 3. Affleck is literally not a person. He is a parasite that attached itself to Matt Damon then jumped to Jennifer Lopez. He is a very large tapeworm. Ang Lee Hulk was terrible, Punisher was terrible, One Piece is pretty okay and the best of the major shonen. Do you live an alternate dimension where terrible things are good and good things are terrible?

My unpopular opinions?


-Bioware is not really that good at writing, and seems competent because most of the industry is flat out terrible. Their romances are at best boring and they run the gamut into terrible and creepy.

-Cover shooters are terrible.

-Realism in games is a cancer. This connects with the above point. I want more Serious Sam style shooters where you carry like 14 guns ad face armies of enemies on sprawling battlefields with secret chambers and cool shit.

- Connected note, I am sick of killing Russians, Nazis, Vietnamese and Arabs in shooter games. I used to love this genre back when it involved giant aliens, monsters, demons and robots. It saddens me how rare games with interesting enemies and environments are now.

-Assassin's Creed 1+2 and Grand Theft Auto 4 are both pretty lame. AC2 was pretty cool when I got it but I got sick of it pretty quickly, practically no longevity which is terrible for a sandbox game.

-The Sisko was the best Star Trek captain and DS9 the best Trek. (Voyager was shit though, god damn was it shit, I honestly prefer Enterprise).

- The best FF was 12, followed by 10 then 9.

-There were no cartoons that are actually good without nostalgia before the 90s.

-Community is the best American sitcom running and the only ones that are better historically are Arrested Development and The Simpsons in it's prime.

-On The Simpsons it's gotten back into form recently, I've caught a few season 20 and 21 episodes and they've made me laugh my arse off.

[Amake]

Raiden is an excellent player character in MGS2. Cartwheels! Also beyond gameplay his job is to show how Snake is more badass than anyone including you, the player, and that works pretty well. Did you wish the whole time you could go back to being Snake and feel like a big man? Then Raiden did his job.

And Star Wars sucks. Including and especially the original trilogy. R2D2 is basically the same character as Jar-Jar Binks except with a glaze of nostalgia over him.

[Osterbaum]

All of your opinions are objectively horrible.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

Avatar is fucking terrible. It's a movie with a ridiculously shallow story, way too looooooooong and I don't care what anyone says about the quality, it's still only CG to me. Just yet another shitty CG piece of shit. Oh, and are there any interesting characters? I think not. The music... like... how many composers are there in Hollywood? One? Two? And why do they always have to turn the volume of their soundtrack so low it loses all the impact it COULD make, no matter how fucking generic it is.

CG movies. Just... what? The whole aesthetic is pure shit? I can stand cartoons, but whenever I see CG I run as fast as I can, because it's still just a stupid gimmick.

Firefly: Like... it's cool and all, but I don't see what all that buzz is about. It's a pretty fun show, but why pretend it's a classic.

Coen Movies suck. Fargo is all that is wrong with humanity, No Country for old Men is Fargo with less snow and something that's probably supposed to be a message at the end, The Big Lebowski, while at times enjoyable, is so terribly overrated, I don't see potential as a cult classic in that at all.

I like the Director's Cut of Donnie Darko.

Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater is unplayable. Menu time far exceeds actual gameplay, the camo system is better left out completely, patching up Snake is annoying as... ants in your underpants. What happened to the simplicity? What happened to never having to open a menu at all? I loved MGS1 and MGS2 just for that. Why destroy something beautiful? It was often complimented for being immersive. Yes. Menus do that, menu's are the best thing! I remember last time when I was outside and got hungry. So I entered the menu to select my lunchbox from my backback and then the sandwich. Then I cursed this firmware update to my consciousness, because I preferred just holding L2 or R2 to equip whatever I needed.

I love MGS2 and prefer it over MGS3 any day. Unless the HD remake of Snake Eater greatly reduces menu time I'll probably never change my opinion on that one. People who have a problem with Raiden can kiss my ass, I didn't like him either, but he doesn't affect Gameplay at all. Oh wait, you get to use a sword. That's pretty badass. Raiden is awesome.

Iron Maiden are boring and terrible. Why do so many bands feel the need to copy them? Why? Metal could be such a great genre if it weren't for Iron Maiden. Why don't more bands copy awesome bands like Deep Purple and add double bass drums? That's Metal, right?

EDIT: Iq, R2 Does not talk. I repeat, he does not talk!

[Amake]

Well, you shouldn't make the mistake of listening to Jar-Jar as if he said anything of consequence.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

I never really liked Wolverine at all for some reason.

Wolverine is completely overated. We all know Nightcrawler and Gambit are the coolest dudes around.

AC/DC is kind of bad.

Command and Conquer: Red Alert 3 was a pretty cool game.

I will end you!

The Star Wars prequels were ruined 100% by George Lucas's crappy writing and not, in fact, by Hayden Christiensen.

I still want to blame both of them though.

OT;

Games;

Assassins Creed is a terrible game.
Bioshock 2 was quite good.
Unreal Tournament is the best fps series ever made.

Movies;

The entire Aliens quadrilogy is actually good, not just the first 2 (or to some people, just the first one). This also includes the so-so AVP1. Requiem still sucks balls though.
Predator 2 was better than the original.
Wanted was a pretty good film.


TV;

Lost was not confusing or stupid. It had a satisfying ending that wrapped up all the shows mysteries.
Supernatural turned crap part way through season 1 and never got better.

[Nique]

Ang Lee Hulk was terrible

Except for complaints about the graphics from people who thought Jurassic Park's were bad WHEN it came out, I have yet to hear a really compelling reason why this movie was terrible. I don't want to drag this on but honestly at this point if we're going to go 'uh huh' 'nah uh' at each other there might as well be some measure of justification.

Like, ok I liked it becuase the action was sparse but paid off for the big finish. Eric Bana is a good actor and did justice to the role. Jennifer Connely is.... tolerable. Gary Busey Nick Nolte was fairly compelling as a villain. The writing was pretty competent as far as I could tell - No groan worthy lines, motives that make sense, no glaring inconsistencies. I understand that there's no accounting for taste, but personally I don't see what's so bad about it and would be interested in what the actual answer is to that.

Bioware is not really that good at writing, and seems competent because most of the industry is flat out terrible. Their romances are at best boring and they run the gamut into terrible and creepy.

A lot of games are like this. It's easy to be good when the majority is terrible. Writing in games is unacceptably poor.

The Sisko was the best Star Trek captain and DS9 the best Trek. (Voyager was shit though, god damn was it shit, I honestly prefer Enterprise).

I recommend re-watching Voyager and skipping Threshold (http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Threshold_%28episode%29). There are some other frustrating things about the show (Captain Janeway's unexplained inconsistent behavior being my primary complaint) but after re-watching it a couple times I found more redeeming about it than not.

Enterprise felt like a betrayal of the principals implied in the franchise as a whole - which I guess is an interesting statement considering that some people feel that way about DS9. But saying DS9 is a wrong interpretation of what Star Trek is supposed to be about rings false for many reasons - Addressing social issues in a thought-provoking and progressive way was something that DS9 pulled off far better than even TNG did, and anyone saying that the interpersonal and intergalactic conflicts present in the series betrayed "Roddenberry's Vision" is missing the point.

Enterprise on the other hand was full of conflict where the end message was pretty ethno-centric. The T'pol character, for example, was completely misused (so much so that even the actress herself complained outspokenly about the direction the show was taking, though that may have more to do with other aspects of the program). Her supposedly superior logic and intelligence was always portrayed as an exaggerated-hubris and always undermined by "human Intuition" (most often represented by the pseudo-cowboy mentality of Archer and Trip), invariably showing her the error of her Vulcan ways. So much for respecting other cultures! Maybe even worse was the constant use of the character's sexuality to weaken and humiliate her.

I guess it's not entirely surprising or wrong to bring sex appeal into the series. Considering Jolene Blalock's modeling career and that the precedent for this sort of thing was found in Voyager's Seven of Nine, to say nothing of Troi and even Uhura, a sexy Vulcan lead is actually kind of a cool idea. But for a show that I have always imagined to have a conscience of sorts, I was deeply disappointed in their handling of it.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to hijack the thread. I just really wanted to talk about Star Trek.

EDIT

Firefly: Like... it's cool and all, but I don't see what all that buzz is about. It's a pretty fun show, but why pretend it's a classic.


Ok NOW you guys are making me go into my 'But someone on the internet is wrong!' place. Not-serious opinion threads are dangerous!

In all seriousness I can sort of maybe if I squint real hard see why someone wouldn't like Firefly all that much, but more in that it didn't suite their tastes than that it was not a progrum of excellent quality, becuase it totally was.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

Nique, you do not spell my name with a space. You just don't. No matter how much I insulted Firefly. Which I simply did not at all. As opposed to Avatar. Fuck Avatar. To hell, with a chainsaw.

[Nique]

Nique, you do not spell my name with a space.

This is a thread about unpopular opinions, not wrong ones.

[greed]

Except for complaints about the graphics from people who thought Jurassic Park's were bad WHEN it came out, I have yet to hear a really compelling reason why this movie was terrible. I don't want to drag this on but honestly at this point if we're going to go 'uh huh' 'nah uh' at each other there might as well be some measure of justification.

Like, ok I liked it becuase the action was sparse but paid off for the big finish. Eric Bana is a good actor and did justice to the role. Jennifer Connely is.... tolerable. Gary Busey Nick Nolte was fairly compelling as a villain. The writing was pretty competent as far as I could tell - No groan worthy lines, motives that make sense, no glaring inconsistencies. I understand that there's no accounting for taste, but personally I don't see what's so bad about it and would be interested in what the actual answer is to that. Okay terrible was an exaggeration, and I didn't really like the later Hulk much better. I got kinda swept up in the hyperbole cause the rest of Sevenshot's opinions opinions were so bad. I mostly agree with you, I just thought the ending didn't payoff enough and it lacked the levity I expect from most comic book movies. I mean The Hulk isn't Batman to me, I kinda want a Hulk movie to be less introspective and more funny. But also it has been a long time since I watched it(at release, with my grandpa, when I was like 12), so maybe I'll repost about it after checking it out again.



A lot of games are like this. It's easy to be good when the majority is terrible. Writing in games is unacceptably poor.

Pretty much, I was mostly posting that because a lot of people shout Bioware's praises from the rooftops, when it's not close to the best in games (it's better than the bulk but there are a number of studios that don't just better them, but vastly eclipse them) and nowhere near good when compared to the standards of writing in other media. Mass Effect is cheesy fun and Dragon Age has some good snark but the character development, plot and general writing quality out of nerdy jokes is kind of terrible.



I recommend re-watching Voyager and skipping Threshold (http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Threshold_%28episode%29). There are some other frustrating things about the show (Captain Janeway's unexplained inconsistent behavior being my primary complaint) but after re-watching it a couple times I found more redeeming about it than not.

Enterprise felt like a betrayal of the principals implied in the franchise as a whole - which I guess is an interesting statement considering that some people feel that way about DS9. But saying DS9 is a wrong interpretation of what Star Trek is supposed to be about rings false for many reasons - Addressing social issues in a thought-provoking and progressive way was something that DS9 pulled off far better than even TNG did, and anyone saying that the interpersonal and intergalactic conflicts present in the series betrayed "Roddenberry's Vision" is missing the point.

Enterprise on the other hand was full of conflict where the end message was pretty ethno-centric. The T'pol character, for example, was completely misused (so much so that even the actress herself complained outspokenly about the direction the show was taking, though that may have more to do with other aspects of the program). Her supposedly superior logic and intelligence was always portrayed as an exaggerated-hubris and always undermined by "human Intuition" (most often represented by the pseudo-cowboy mentality of Archer and Trip), invariably showing her the error of her Vulcan ways. So much for respecting other cultures! Maybe even worse was the constant use of the character's sexuality to weaken and humiliate her.

I guess it's not entirely surprising or wrong to bring sex appeal into the series. Considering Jolene Blalock's modeling career and that the precedent for this sort of thing was found in Voyager's Seven of Nine, to say nothing of Troi and even Uhura, a sexy Vulcan lead is actually kind of a cool idea. But for a show that I have always imagined to have a conscience of sorts, I was deeply disappointed in their handling of it.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to hijack the thread. I just really wanted to talk about Star Trek.


I kind of wouldn't mind talking Trek too, I recently binged on DS9 after buying the whole series when it was on sale. Maybe one of us should make a thread about it (or maybe SciFi shows in general) in media?

[A Zarkin' Frood]

This is a thread about unpopular opinions, not wrong ones.

Then why are you even in this thread?

[Jagos]

I never really liked Wolverine at all for some reason.

He got shipped in EVERY. LAST. FUCKING. MARVEL. COMIC.

They even made him the Anita Blake (http://moderateinthemiddle.wordpress.com/2009/04/12/marvel-the-weekly-watcher-april-10-2009/) series.

If he wasn't fucking shoved down my throat every FIVE. FUCKING. SECONDS. I probably wouldn't have a problem with Wolverine.

So yeah, Cyclops may be better than Wolverine, but both of them are still douchebags with major parental issues to get over.

[Aldurin]

-Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion is a pretty shitty game. Shitty polish, awful textures where it matters (FACES), overly abundant loads, terrible story, ugly spells, completely one dimensional questing. It's best quality is the leveling system, which got worse from Morrowind, and just HOW bugged it is. It's telling that to make the game fairly playable, you need 20GB of mods.

Dark Brotherhood man, they let you kill that racist/sexist asshole you meet at the beginning of the game. That by itself makes up for a large portion of it. But the game is one of those examples of why people mod to overcome stuff the developers refused to fix.

[Ecks]

Bleach is the best shounen series on the market

The 3DS has a lot of potential, and the games in line for it all promise to be very fun to play.

There is nothing wrong with the Legend of Zelda series as it currently stands. Innovation for the sake of innovation, and not trying to stay true to the spirit of the series while going in new directions IS BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD FOR COMPLAINING ABOUT IT.

Metallica, while popular and "mainstream" has a unique sound that I enjoy, and telling me that I'm not a real fan of metal because I like Metallica is bullshit because fuck you.

I like Final Fantasy XIII. I like most of the cast of Final Fantasy XIII, and it has great music and an interesting combat/level up system. I also happen to like Final Fantasy X, VIII, III and IV. III took I's job system and blew it up into awesomeness, IV introduced a really good story with great characters and memorable music. VIII was cool because gunblades and the battle theme. X was a fantastic (if HOLY FUCKING LINEARITY BATMAN) entry, introduced voice acting, an addicting and awesome sidegame, and the characters were interesting.

Pokemon is and always will be awesome, sticking true to the spirit of the series and not changing the formula doesn't have to be a detriment.

Kingdom Hearts' appeal is ENTIRELY in its fuckallconvolutedandunintelligible plot. Which seems to have righted itself somewhat in the wake of BBS/358/Re:coded.

[The SSB Intern]

So yeah, Cyclops may be better than Wolverine, but both of them are still douchebags with major parental issues to get over.

Not if you only watched the 90's cartoon. Then Cyclops is only a sometimes douchebag whose parental issues are addressed and solved in a single episode.

Oooh, I have another one: Tron Legacy was an awesome movie.

[Loyal]

Age of Empires 3 was a pretty ace game.

Command and Conquer: Renegade was a great deal of fun in spite of its horrible balance.

Civ 3 would be enjoyable, except for its Corruption system which completely ruins it.

I don't really see the appeal with X-Men in general.

Chocolate soft serve ice cream is vastly inferior to vanilla and compromising with the swirl is a sign of weakness.

[Kim]

-Realism in games is a cancer. This connects with the above point. I want more Serious Sam style shooters where you carry like 14 guns ad face armies of enemies on sprawling battlefields with secret chambers and cool shit.

I wouldn't say it's a cancer, persay, because it's totally an awesome thing to have in some games and really benefits the experience. The problem is that it's way overused and treated like the ultimate goal of gaming when it really shouldn't be. I'd say it's more like... I dunno... Vitamins? They're good for you but you shouldn't eat the whole fucking bottle that will fuck your shit up.

- The best FF was 12, followed by 10 then 9.Yay!

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Also Sevenshot your opinions aren't unpopular that's the problem, they're just terrible and all too common. You are the lowest common denominator. I mean Daredevil being better than the Dark Knight. Fuck it's barely better than Fantastic 4 and X-men 3. Affleck is literally not a person. He is a parasite that attached itself to Matt Damon then jumped to Jennifer Lopez. He is a very large tapeworm. Ang Lee Hulk was terrible, Punisher was terrible, One Piece is pretty okay and the best of the major shonen. Do you live an alternate dimension where terrible things are good and good things are terrible?

Whoa. I never said Daredevil was better than The Dark Knight. I said the director's cut was almost as good and that it dared to portray a superhero's life realistically way before Nolan got behind the camera.

Also, Fantastic 4 wasn't that bad. Especially the director's cut.

And how dare you insult Ben Affleck! He's a skilled actor and one of the most talented men working in Hollywood.

I gave One Piece a lot of chances. People kept saying how great it was. Well, I made it up to the point with Chomper the reindeer doctor and I had enough. The entire show is just stupid and I can't stand it. I hate Naruto and I still like that show more than One Piece.

Punisher was exactly what it was supposed to be. A man loses his family and sets about to utterly destroy those responsible. Thomas Jane was great in the role and, dare I say it, I thought Travolta was fine as the villain.

Ang Lee's Hulk isn't boring. Norton's managed to bored me all the way up until the monster brawl at the end (props to that for saving the movie). Ang Lee fucked up a lot on the movie but it wasn't enough to completely screw the pooch.

Round Two

* The Frank Miller script for Aronofsky's Batman: Year One would have made the greatest Elseworld's movie ever. The fact that it was not made is a crime.
* Grant Morrison's run on Batman is the definitive run of the last forty years.
* Dick Grayson is a better Batman than Bruce.
* Steve Rogers should have stayed dead.
* The theoretical greatest movie ever made would be Darren Aronofsky's Moon Knight.
* The first two Batman movies are the worst thing to happen to the franchise. Yes, worse than bat-nipples.
* Tim Burton has made only two good movies.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I think that Shakespeare on the whole is pretty overrated. This might be a popular consensus, I'm not totally sure.

[Azisien]

Dark Brotherhood man, they let you kill that racist/sexist asshole you meet at the beginning of the game. That by itself makes up for a large portion of it. But the game is one of those examples of why people mod to overcome stuff the developers refused to fix.

Dark Brotherhood was certainly among the best quest lines. And acknowledging that, it wasn't very good. Just better.

Final Fantasy X-2 was pretty fun. You might have to play it on mute, though I got sadistic enjoyment from watching FFX rot from the core. Mainly, I thought it had the best ATB system the FF series has ever produced. I actually just enjoyed combat. Pretty integral, and therefore fun.

[Solid Snake]

I think that Shakespeare on the whole is pretty overrated. This might be a popular consensus, I'm not totally sure.

I sure as he'll hope that isn't a consensus opinion. >.>

[Kim]

Yeah, I'd say Shakespeare is overrated. Doesn't mean he's bad, I just don't think he's THE BEST AUTHOR EVER FOREVER like some people seem to think.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

* Grant Morrison's run on Batman is the definitive run of the last forty years.

It's the only one I deem worth reading.

Because all superhero books suck ass, and I don't even give any of them a chance unless someone really fantastic, like Morrison, is writing them.

...

Wait, does that mean it's an unpopular opinion that I am absolutely in love with Grant Morrison?

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Shakespeare isn't even the best elizabethian poet/playright.
Rest of the thread is hilarious.

All of my opinions are massively poopular and thus don't fit in this thread.

[stefan]

THE BEST AUTHOR EVER FOREVE

see this is the problem, because Shakespeare isn't an author. he's a playwright. you don't READ his work, you watch it performed, and that's something a lot fo people forget. I'd say that the majority of people who dislike shakespeare are people whose only experience with him is being forced to read scripts in HS because english teachers give no fucks.

I mean, the Dark Knight may be a great movie, but you'd miss a shitload of the impact if you just read the script.

[Seil]

Scary Go Round is stupid.

Mayonaise is disgusting.

[Arcanum]

Fallout 3 is better than Fallout New Vegas. Mostly because the Damage Threshold system makes all of your guns feel like pea shooters.

Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm 2 is, despite the ridiculous name, a fantastic fighting game thanks to its simplicity and beauty in motion.

Tequila isn't disgusting. In fact it's pretty damn good.

[Darth SS]

Fallout 3 was not fun. It was too big, too clumsy, the voice acting sucked, the textures were shitty, the karma system made no sense and it was too damn long. You played it to say that you played Fallout 3, you did not play it because it was fun.

Tequila does not require a chaser. You don't need salt or limes or lemons. If you do, you're trying to make it look worse than it is to make yourself look tougher.

[Kerensky287]

There is nothing wrong with the Legend of Zelda series as it currently stands.

I'm okay with this part, but...

Innovation for the sake of innovation... IS BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD FOR COMPLAINING ABOUT IT.

I'm of the opinion that you should be innovating wherever fucking possible. Sometimes stuff won't work out that well (see also: FF8's junction system), but if you keep trying you'll eventually stumble across something that can or should revolutionize a genre (see also: Company of Heroes/DoW2's brand of tactical RTS combat).

Zelda is pretty fantastic as it stands because it does a good amount of innovation already. People worship Ocarina of Time so much, but if they just kept releasing Ocarina of Time over and over again, I'd get a little bit upset (FUCK YOU OoT 3d). What they do now is they introduce just a little bit of new stuff each game, spicing up the formula and forcing you to think about how to use new items each time.

Like, I actually LOVED Twilight Princess. The variety of items they gave you was fantastic, and each dungeon was completely unique as a result. I just wish that they had made more of an effort to make the items applicable outside the dungeon you had earned them. Like, fuck, you get a freakin' spinning disk to ride on in one of them. You use it to grind on rails in that dungeon and NOWHERE ELSE. It was cool when we saw it, but why not give us another opportunity to use it?

...Oh, another unpopular opinion I have is that Link should be a werewolf in every Zelda game from now on.

[Kim]

The werewolf sections of Twilight Princess were horrible from every conceivable perspective.

[Mr.Bookworm]

-There were no cartoons that are actually good without nostalgia before the 90s.

-...best American sitcom running and the only ones that are better historically are... The Simpsons in it's prime.

:raise:

Also, all of you are terrible people and your opinions are equally terrible.

In related news, every single Donkey Kong game ever made is terrible, Pac-Man is a crock of shit, Japan has never made a great RPG, Golden Sun is merely okay, Problem Sleuth made me want to gouge my eyes out, the Punisher was really a pretty decent mindless action flick, Kingdom Hearts was enjoyable crap in the first game and then subsequently became straight shit, Pokemon should have died in a fire after the first sequel or two, the first Twilight movie was okay, the Ace Attorney games would be a million times better as a straight VN without convoluted puzzles that I don't give a shit about, the Star Wars prequels are okay, Tolkien was a mediocre writer, Star Trek has never been that good, and I have more of these but in summary fuck everything you love.

[Aldurin]

Fallout 3 was not fun. It was too big, too clumsy, the voice acting sucked, the textures were shitty, the karma system made no sense and it was too damn long. You played it to say that you played Fallout 3, you did not play it because it was fun.

That's how I felt about it too.

[Kim]

Here's another: Gunbuster is the best show Gainax has ever made.

[Magus]

Let's do this by category.

Videogames:
* FF5 is the best Main Final Fantasy. FFT wins for games with Final Fantasy in the title.
* DQ8 is the best Dragon Quest.
* Breath of Fire is a better series than Final Fantasy.
* Earthbound was in fact the best RPG on the SNES.
* Megaman Legends is the best Megaman series.
* Link's Awakening is the best Zelda game.

Comics and Manga:
* Superman was never resurrected after his fight with Doomsday.
* Peter Parker is a detriment to the fun quotient of Spiderman comics. Ultimate Peter Parker was somewhat immune to this, but they went and killed him.
* The Walking Dead is fucking fantastic, but I hate reading it because fuck the bad things that happen.
* The guy who does One Piece, Oda, is the master of Chekov's Gun.
* Tite Kubo is a genius.

Cartoons:
* Extreme Ghostbusters was a fucking awesome show.

This is a topic of unpopular opinions, Ness. Aren't you paying attention?

Well I mean up to about your Walking Dead thing because after that I can't really say, not having read the comic and I have little idea what you're saying in those last two bits.

Although I like X a bit more than Legends, what I played of Legends (which was the Nintendo 64 version so...)

But it's like you're not even trying to make zero sense like these folks:

I like Ang Lee's Hulk more than the newer one.
I like the Watchmen movie more than the comic.
I think that Daredevil is almost as good as The Dark Knight.
The 2004 Punisher is awesome and anyone who says different is wrong.
Akira is some horseshit.
And most controversial of all, Ben Affleck is one of the most underrated actors of all time.


This is how to make almost zero sense. The 2004 Punisher being awesome is fine, since it was. I can't even say anything about him liking Ang Lee's Hulk better than the new one (though I suppose liking the movie at all makes zero sense, the statement in and of itself does not make zero sense). It's when Sevenshot attempts to compare things that he reaches the epitome of zero sensicalnessality, such as Akira being "horseshit" or Watchmen movie being better than the comic. The Watchmen movie was good, but it is not better than the comic. Akira is clearly not horseshit. This is how to master the unpopular opinion.

Snake as another example can only make like half his things make zero sense, but again, a much better showing of nonsensicality.

I expected better of you, Ness. Tsk tsk.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Ponyo is a much better movie than Spirited Away (the worst of Miyazaki's films).


Edit:
It's when Sevenshot attempts to compare things that he reaches the epitome of zero sensicalnessality, such as Akira being "horseshit" or Watchmen movie being better than the comic. The Watchmen movie was good, but it is not better than the comic. Akira is clearly not horseshit. This is how to master the unpopular opinion.

This is where I think age plays a factor. I'm a young guy and I've been exposed to things that have imitated Akira and Watchmen long before experiencing either of them. It's not as revolutionary when you live in a culture saturated with those ideas. I saw Akira four years ago and it didn't do much for me and I read Watchmen about two-three years ago and didn't find it to be all that revolutionary anymore. I understand that in context, they're both brilliant but now they're subpar works. Hence why I prefer the Watchmen movie. It streamlined the unnecessarily bloated story and actually managed to do a couple scenes much better than the book.

[Kim]

Ponyo is a much better movie than Spirited Away (the worst of Miyazaki's films).

I give this opinion an F--

[IHateMakingNames]

Final Fantasy X-2 was the most fun to play.

Kefka is a terrible main villain. He's that reoccurring mid-boss who gets really lucky then doesn't matter for the second half of the game.

Firefly was bad. As was Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog.

Tavros is the best troll.

The Dark Knight wasn't that good. How the fuck did Joker know where to have wires set up to take down that helicopter?

Every movie based on a book is better than the book (Excluding crazy plot changes).

Reeses Puffs are bad.

Oven baked bacon is the best bacon, and crispy bacon is ruined bacon.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Oven baked bacon is the best bacon, and crispy bacon is ruined bacon.

Them be fightin' words.

[Azisien]

:raise:

Also, all of you are terrible people and your opinions are equally terrible.

In related news, every single Donkey Kong game ever made is terrible, Pac-Man is a crock of shit,

Okay I can begin to...

Japan has never made a great RPG, Golden Sun is merely okay, Problem Sleuth made me want to gouge my eyes out, the Punisher was really a pretty decent mindless action flick

...understand where you're coming from and...

Kingdom Hearts was enjoyable crap in the first game and then subsequently became straight shit, Pokemon should have died in a fire after the first sequel or two

...even begin to agree and see your points except...

the first Twilight movie was okay

...pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffttttthahahaha ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


the Star Wars prequels are okay

AAAHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Arcanum]

Fallout 3 was not fun. It was too big, too clumsy, the voice acting sucked, the textures were shitty, the karma system made no sense and it was too damn long. You played it to say that you played Fallout 3, you did not play it because it was fun.

The voice acting is still pretty much the same in New Vegas, I don't particularly care about textures when it comes to massive sandbox games, and the karma system seems the same to me in New Vegas (i.e. if there's a difference, I don't notice it as a casual observer, so what's the point?). And complaining that a game is too big and too long (hahaaa, dangly parts) just seems silly. More bang for your buck. (Yeah you could argue having such a large game means it had less polish, but in my opinion the good outweighs the bad).

Tequila does not require a chaser. You don't need salt or limes or lemons. If you do, you're trying to make it look worse than it is to make yourself look tougher.

Exactly.

[Bard The 5th LW]

My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic is an okay cartoon with some funny lines that is certainly superior to its predecessors, but it is still mostly just average in quality. Its pretty funny as an internet thing though I suppose.

[Magus]

The Dark Knight wasn't that good. How the fuck did Joker know where to have wires set up to take down that helicopter?

I just have to say that if you base a film's quality pretty much entirely on the physical and logical plot holes within its action sequences you are saying a lot of awesome movies are actually really terrible, especially comic book movies.

[Bard The 5th LW]

The answer to any question that begins with "How did the Joker..." can be answered with "Because he's the Joker".

[Bells]

The answer to any question that begins with "How did the Joker..." can be answered with "Because he's the Joker".

That's IS what Batman would say...

[Krylo]

karma system seems the same to me in New Vegas (i.e. if there's a difference, I don't notice it as a casual observer, so what's the point?).

Karma system was the same, but they also put in the rep system which worked much differently and made a lot more sense. Also: No one reacted to you differently based on Karma as they did in FO3 because the capital wasteland is apparently full of psychics who know if you've been good or bad and/or serial killers gots a smell to 'em, but rather based on your reputation concerning a specific faction.

[Darth SS]

The voice acting is still pretty much the same in New Vegas,

So still bad.

I don't particularly care about textures when it comes to massive sandbox games,

I care about games looking good when I have to stare at stuff and at their faces for a zillion hours. It just wasn't a good looking game, it looked blocky and blurry and the textures repeated too much.

and the karma system seems the same to me in New Vegas (i.e. if there's a difference, I don't notice it as a casual observer, so what's the point?).

The karma system makes no sense. I kill a bandit, and it's like "Good job bro, have +2 karma." Then I loot them, and it's like "-2 karma dickweed." I take some stuff from a locker belonging to a long dead miner, and I get "-1 karma, stealing is wrong," yet somehow I'd get karma for just talking to people.


And complaining that a game is too big and too long (hahaaa, dangly parts) just seems silly. More bang for your buck. (Yeah you could argue having such a large game means it had less polish, but in my opinion the good outweighs the bad).

It wasn't a massive game that was fun though. How many quests were just fetch quests, how many characters were practically mirrors of each other, etc. It was just padded to shit to justify the massive map. I would rather have played a 50 hour game with 50 hours of original polished content than a 120 hour game with 50 hours of original polished content and 70 hours of that content recycled.

Firefly was bad. As was Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog.

I will meet you in the alley, sir.

[Fifthfiend]

-There were no cartoons that are actually good without nostalgia before the 90s.

Cool story bro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWRZut6klgE)

[Kerensky287]

I feel like some people are just saying things in this thread to get attention.

Firefly was bad. As was Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog.

This is not one of those things. This is a genuine act of aggression, and/or stupidity.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb22/Kerensky287/deadtome.jpg

[Gregness]

Lady Gaga has a lot of musical talent.

[Fifthfiend]

Lady Gaga has a lot of musical talent.

You're looking for the popular and correct opinions thread.

[Fifthfiend]

Popular opinions:

Those Transformers movies were great!

Whoa a comic, man with pictures and everything

What's a My Little Pony

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Lady Gaga looks like she got beat with a face rearranging shovel.

[Kim]

Lady Gaga looks like she got beat with a face rearranging shovel.

This is probably the most wrong opinion I've seen posted in this thread.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

This is probably the most wrong opinion I've seen posted in this thread.

Hey now, I damn well meant it when I said I had some unpopular opinions.

[Fifthfiend]

Lady Gaga looks like she got beat with a face rearranging shovel.

http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt148/fifthfiend/reactions/vdekja.gif

[Kim]

Hey now, I damn well meant it when I said I had some unpopular opinions.

It's just a wrong opinion.

Hell, Lady Gaga did some modeling in drag that is quite frankly hot as hell.

If you don't like Gaga's music that's a personal preference thing but goddamn I honestly can't believe anyone would find her ugly without something completely irrelevant her appearance being the motivating factor.

I mean, there's a big fucking gap between "I don't find this person attractive" and "this person is ugly."

[The Sevenshot Kid]

http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt148/fifthfiend/reactions/vdekja.gif

http://api.ning.com/files/M4mVV17jaucjYrhgjFJo2SY11HzImDkmX6swcnt8Fy2suyj9So AyWoky67ZjcJOUdZCM4rmtYjHv7-LCjfIHEde5A-eDuR8L/TheOfficeStanleyNod.gif

Edit:

Non, it's completely possible for someone to find her ugly. Her facial structure just makes her look bad.

[Osterbaum]

And so we reach the '.gif -phase'.

[Kim]

It's times like this that I really lament my shortage of gifs.

[Gregness]

You're looking for the popular and correct opinions thread.

This is most certainly not a popular opinion. Like, maybe it's popular here but that hardly generalizes to society at large. Sure, Gaga's music is popular, but that's not the same thing. I honestly don't really care for most of her music (though I did download Judas) but I recognize that she's got some serious musical chops.

[Fifthfiend]

http://api.ning.com/files/M4mVV17jaucjYrhgjFJo2SY11HzImDkmX6swcnt8Fy2suyj9So AyWoky67ZjcJOUdZCM4rmtYjHv7-LCjfIHEde5A-eDuR8L/TheOfficeStanleyNod.gif

Edit:

Non, it's completely possible for someone to find her ugly. Her facial structure just makes her look bad.

http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt148/fifthfiend/emoticons/oy.gif

[Kim]

Non, it's completely possible for someone to find her ugly. Her facial structure just makes her look bad.I understand that it's possible. I'm just saying these people are wrong. People are perfectly capable for having wrong opinions for terrible reasons. I'm not debating that.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Oh! I prefer Ke$ha to Lady Gaga.

[Kerensky287]

This is most certainly not a popular opinion.

"Lady Gaga is talented" is not a popular opinion? Then where the fuck did all her fame come from?

No, see, there are different levels. In order of decending popularity:

-There are the people who don't know what they're talking about who like Lady Gaga because everyone else does and they want to fit in.

-Then there are people who hate Lady Gaga because either they DON'T want to fit in, or because they know marginally more and hate how by-the-numbers her music is.

-THEN there are the people who like Lady Gaga because they can tell that despite her reliance on tried-and-true methods, she genuinely does have a lot more talent than a lot of these fuckers who cloud the radios.

So while your reasons may be unpopular, the idea itself is most certainly not.

EDIT:

Oh! I prefer Ke$ha to Lady Gaga.

Oh you can just rot

[Viridis]

Opinions can't be wrong, Non. They're opinions.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Oh you can just rot

If I hear Lady Gaga on the radio I'm changing it because her songs are offensively stupid. Ke$ha on the other hand has hilarious stupid songs. Plus she totally did a song with 3OH!3.

[Darth SS]

I think Lady Gaga is ugly. Her face reminds me of a corpse. Your opinion is wrong and you should feel bad.


I have another submission. Sweet and Sour sauce really isn't that good, and I prefer plain white rice to rice in sweet and sour sauce.

[Kim]

Opinions can't be wrong, Non. They're opinions.

My opinion is that opinions can be wrong.

WHAT NOW

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Let it be known:

Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and we all think they stink.

[Gregness]

"Lady Gaga is talented" is not a popular opinion? Then where the fuck did all her fame come from?
...


I hope it's obvious that famous doesn't necessarily mean talented and that talented doesn't mean famous. I mean, Spice girls, Britney Spears, both relatively famous and not that talented.

OPINION THE SECOND: Steak is meh.

[Solid Snake]

It's possible to personally find someone ugly and simultaneously concede that the consensus opinion among others is that she isn't.
I know that is true because it's precisely how I feel about Lady Gaga.

Like I'll concede a number of people I know completely disagree with me, but it doesn't stop me from thinking every time I see an image of her that she's ugly, or at the very least, so directly inverse and opposite of whatever "my type" is that she belongs in a distinct minority group of celebrities who I would brazenly reject if she randomly waltzed up to me and flirted with me.

(Well I'd reject her based on her appearance alone and in absence of all other factors; once you add her exorbitant wealth and fame into the equation, not to mention whatever her private-life personality may actually be like, it becomes a bit harder to gauge how I'd actually react in such a hypothetical circumstance.)

Way to over-analyze things, Solid Snake!

[Kim]

Way to be wrong, Solid Snake!

FTFY

[The Sevenshot Kid]

The Last Temptation of Christ is better than the New Testament.

[Krylo]

Opinions can't be wrong, Non. They're opinions.

Opinions can totally be wrong, as that it's totally possible to have an opinion that is contrary to observable fact.

See: Flat Earth Society, Anti-Evolution Groups, Etc. Etc.

Physical attractiveness is something of a grey area as that we do have sciences that dissect what is most commonly found attractive in other people etc.

I would suggest that saying "Lady Gaga is ugly" is an incorrect opinion as that her facial structure is symmetrical, her complexion is clear, she is of a healthy weight, has a feminine figure, etc. etc. Basically you can go down the checklist of things that make other people generally attractive outside of fetishism and she hits them all based purely on her natural outward appearance. This is probably a large part of why she's a (parody of a) pop musician (and the culture of pop music) and not still doing jazz.

On the other hand saying that, "I find Lady Gaga to be ugly/unattractive" is an entirely valid opinion that admits to one's own biases.

On the other other hand, any opinion given in this thread should probably just be understand to have the 'I find" or "In my opinion" thrown in front of it because this is a thread for opinions that are flat out unpopular.

[Viridis]

Opinions can totally be wrong, as that it's totally possible to have an opinion that is contrary to observable fact.

See: Flat Earth Society, Anti-Evolution Groups, Etc. Etc.
But those aren't opinions, are they? Opinions are, at least in my internal definition, something that can't be proven like that, something that differs from person to person. Whether something's funny, whether someone's pretty, etc.

In this view, whether the Earth is round, something you can prove or disprove with science, isn't an opinion.

[Osterbaum]

But what is it then, if not an opinion?

edit: Contrary to what I though, I have been informed that I have a unpopular opinion: I think "Jets" is the dumbest name for a sports team I've ever heard.

[Solid Snake]

WALL OF TEXT INCOMING

Also there is a difference between opinions which are completely subjective on the part of the beholder (and thus cannot be wrong) and opinions that are nonetheless framed in such a manner that they rely on knowledge that is presumably objective, empirical and can be measured and is intended to evoke debate through assertion.

For example:

If someone says a Kei$ha tune is "better to listen to," from their subjective viewpoint, than Beethoven's 5th Symphony, there is no way that individual's personal opinion could truly be "wrong." Merely asserting a personal preference in favor of one product over another is a judgment call we all have the right to make. And really, those who would say they "prefer" Kei$ha over Beethoven probably do not believe, and would not objectively assert, that Kei$ha truly had an objective sway over musical culture that by any means rivaled Beethoven's, or that music historians should spend their time studying Kei$ha instead of Beethoven. They might just dislike the sound of classical music, or they might have listened to a Kei$ha song while their son or daughter was born or as they engaged in a marriage proposal or something that left a nostalgic mark, or who knows.

A comparable example: I like Suikoden 2 more than Legend of Zelda: Ocraina of Time. That's a true statement, it actually measures my subjective taste in both games. But that statement on its own is not akin to a statement that I personally hold the belief that Suikoden 2 objectively holds more merit as a videogame and in its context in the industry and gaming culture as a whole than OoT.

Now the problem is there's a very different kind of definition of 'opinion,' though, that the English vocabulary apparently has not seen fit to distinguish from the earlier opinions I've defined. It's the person who actually asserts: "In my opinion, Kei$ha is better than Beethoven" and means his statement not just as a personal sentiment of subjective taste but also as a personal sentiment of objective merit. This would be akin to me saying, "I truly do believe that Suikoden 2 is better than OoT, and I also believe experts in the gaming industry and other objective onlookers should hold the same opinion, and if they don't they're missing something." There's something akin to an assertion of fact in there, even though the statement itself is phrased as an opinion and presumably only evokes an opinion.

It's just a weird observation that the latter totally blurs the definition of "opinion" and "fact;" while the person asserting is not claiming his opinion is technical irrefutable knowledge on par with "Caesar was killed in 44 BC," there's an underlying assessment of objectivity in the latter type of claim: "I'm not only saying that I believe this but I'm also saying YOU *SHOULD* believe this too."

And sometimes it's different to distinguish exactly what kind of opinion the speaker is evoking.
Examples: When I say "In my opinion, Suikoden 2 is better than OoT," I don't intend to say that you should also believe that Suikoden 2 is better than OoT. In fact, even though I don't state this in phrasing the opinion, I implicitly and personally acknowledge the consensus opinion that OoT is the better game and, if I were hired to be a Video Game Journalist and asked to "objectively" rate Suikoden 2 and OoT in a "Top Ten" list, I'd rank OoT higher. For its cultural impact, because most other gamers like it more, because it may objectively be better polished, etc.

BUT: When I say "In my opinion, James Taylor is a better songwriter than Lady Gaga," I actually am intending to assert that I have a sufficient underlying knowledge to believe that James Taylor is a better songwriter than Lady Gaga, and I also believe that you should agree with me, and if you don't agree with me I'd rather like to convince you that I'm right. Note that I'd hold the aforementioned opinion even if it was not a majority opinion: if a majority of Americans polled believed Lady Gaga was a better songwriter, I'd still advocate my opinion and want you to believe the majority was wrong and I was right. My statement is still an 'opinion' and not 'fact' (you may well disagree with me, there's no single technical or scientific way to rate quality of songwriting, etc.) but I'd feel more offended and combative if told point-blank that the opinion was 'wrong' or 'baseless.'

And the English language fails insofar as both statements I've described are articulated in our language as 'opinions,' when there should be two separate words for 'opinion' that subtly distinguish between them so listeners know exactly which one of the two positions your opinion is advocating.

I guess what I'm saying is...
...I don't even know what I'm saying anymore but I'm going to post this anyway because I wasted far too much time thinking about it.


EDIT: Shut up Non I'm entitled to my own subjective opinion and you can't force me to define 'beauty' in any particular way, beauty belongs to the eyes of the beholder. :P

[Magus]

A fact. An opinion is something that is not empirically provable.

However, I do believe some opinions are stupid, i.e. those that do not match up with my opinion!

EDIT: What Snake said I guess. Except whether Gaga is ugly or not probably can't be based on anything but opinion. I guess they could show her to a thousand randomly selected babies and see how many cry...

[greed]

:raise:

Also, all of you are terrible people and your opinions are equally terrible.


The Simpsons didn't reach it's prime until 1990. Admittedly 1988/89 Simpsons weren't bad, but I count The Simpsons as a 90s cartoon.

In related news, every single Donkey Kong game ever made is terrible, Pac-Man is a crock of shit, Japan has never made a great RPG, Golden Sun is merely okay, Problem Sleuth made me want to gouge my eyes out, the Punisher was really a pretty decent mindless action flick, Kingdom Hearts was enjoyable crap in the first game and then subsequently became straight shit, Pokemon should have died in a fire after the first sequel or two, the first Twilight movie was okay, the Ace Attorney games would be a million times better as a straight VN without convoluted puzzles that I don't give a shit about, the Star Wars prequels are okay, Tolkien was a mediocre writer, Star Trek has never been that good, and I have more of these but in summary fuck everything you love.

How can you have such terrible opinions?

Here's another: Gunbuster is the best show Gainax has ever made.

FLCL was Gainax no?


Fallout 3 is better than Fallout New Vegas. Mostly because the Damage Threshold system makes all of your guns feel like pea shooters.


DT is a massive improvement and stops bullet sponges, allowing enemies to be dealt with quicker and easier as long as you know what you're doing, the only way you could have this complaint would be if you were REALLY bad at playing it. Also Fallout 3's writing was absolutely terrible, NV's was great.


The voice acting is still pretty much the same in New Vegas, I don't particularly care about textures when it comes to massive sandbox games, and the karma system seems the same to me in New Vegas (i.e. if there's a difference, I don't notice it as a casual observer, so what's the point?).

The VA was greatly improved though? There's like 60 unique voices and much better celebrity VA in New Vegas.


Cool story bro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWRZut6klgE)

Yeah okay, Looney Tunes was good. No good cartoons between them and The Simpsons.

[Marc v4.0]

On the other other hand, any opinion given in this thread should probably just be understand to have the 'I find" or "In my opinion" thrown in front of it because this is a thread for opinions that are flat out unpopular.

Honestly half the ~Drama~ that goes down here could be avoided outright if everyone were to just assume that, in any opinion-related thread, people are representing THEIR PERSONAL OPINION.

[Solid Snake]

A fact. An opinion is something that is not empirically provable.


Nah I actually intended to distinguish both forms of 'opinion' I referenced from 'facts.'
Because really, someone who studies music and language may come up with some empirical measurement that enables them to state "Here's why James Taylor writes better lyrics than Lady Gaga," but that's not a statement of fact akin to "Julius Caesar was killed in 44 BC," even if empirical evidence in the form of studies is included.

[Kim]

Shut up Non I'm entitled to my own subjective opinion

No you aren't.

[Marc v4.0]

the karma system seems the same to me in New Vegas (i.e. if there's a difference, I don't notice it as a casual observer, so what's the point?).

Karma changes were better scaled, making it harder to gain massive amounts of bad karma from minor actions like theft, but you gain much more for making good choices and bad choices, and a moderate amount for killing bad or good guys.

[Krylo]

beauty belongs to the eyes of the beholder. :P

http://i51.tinypic.com/33kd9c8.jpg

[Solid Snake]

Yeah that was basically the perfect comeback, Krylo. I gotta give you that.
(I still disagree with you and your Beholder though.)

[Marc v4.0]

Opinions can be very wrong.

Case in point, one of my Wifes coworkers is convinced that New Vegas was, seriously, an expansion pack that settles on top of Fallout 3 and you play the same character.

He will not hear or see any conflicting evidence.

[Magus]

They do try to do studies on "what makes this or that beautiful", but they're always severely flawed in that it's based on popular opinion. They ask a large random assortment of people to rate faces. So it's not really scientifically anything empirically provable, more a trend of what the average psyche finds beautiful.

[Marc v4.0]

http://i51.tinypic.com/33kd9c8.jpg

That phrase actually influenced the development of this creature. They are known to turn things they find beautiful into stone and collect them for display.

[Solid Snake]

Opinions can be very wrong.

Case in point, one of my Wifes coworkers is convinced that New Vegas was, seriously, an expansion pack that settles on top of Fallout 3 and you play the same character.

He will not hear or see any conflicting evidence.

That's...not an opinion, though.
He's making a statement intended to evoke objective, irrefutable fact. (And the statement is objectively, irrefutably wrong.)

[Magus]

Opinions can be very wrong.

Case in point, one of my Wifes coworkers is convinced that New Vegas was, seriously, an expansion pack that settles on top of Fallout 3 and you play the same character.

He will not hear or see any conflicting evidence.

Point out that you don't need Fallout 3 to play it and it's the same length and your
Fallout 3 characters aren't importable (presumably).

EDIT: Are you sure it's not ironic in that he feels it wasn't enough of an advancement on the concept and so calls it "an expansion pack"?

[Marc v4.0]

Point out that you don't need Fallout 3 to play it and it's the same length and your
Fallout 3 characters aren't importable (presumably).

EDIT: Are you sure it's not ironic in that he feels it wasn't enough of an advancement on the concept and so calls it "an expansion pack"?



I am sadly sure that he is being very honest, and like I said, he will hear or see no evidence.

He also thinks dry-erase markers can't be cleaned with liquid, this one stated while cleaning dry erase off our D&D mat after spilling a soda on it.

So wtf.

[Kim]

FLCL was Gainax no?

It's incredibly close, but at the moment I'm of the opinion to give it to Gunbuster because I feel Gunbuster has far more emotional impact and has had a much more long-term effect on Gainax's robot shows.

[Magus]

I am sadly sure that he is being very honest, and like I said, he will hear or see no evidence.

He also thinks dry-erase markers can't be cleaned with liquid, this one stated while cleaning dry erase off our D&D mat after spilling a soda on it.

So wtf.

Sounds like he takes things too literally. Just explain that dry erase means you don't NEED liquid, but liquid actually works better than just a plain dry cloth if there's an accumulation of it. It's not water-proof just because it's dry-erase.

I know, create an entire D&D scenario around dry erase...chalk that his wizard character has to clean with...liquid...aqua vitae, because there's a large accumulation of chalk dust and the entire party is choking to death on it and--

Okay that sounds like too much trouble, just kill his D&D character off unfairly so he leaves and never comes back.

[Bells]

Black Belt should totally had come back to life...

[BloodyMage]

I enjoyed Fallout 3 more than New Vegas. A lot of the criticism are true, but in New Vegas, from the outset there were paths you literally couldn't take without getting your head ripped off. It was fairly realistic that I shouldn't be able to go that way because certain monsters might group in certain areas, but it's a roleplaying sandbox game, and if I want to go north, I'd like to have that as a reasonable option. The rest of the game very well be better but when a game annoys me that close to the beginning it just dampens the rest of the experience.

I don't find Lady Gaga attractive, but I am more partial to brunettes than blondes anyway. I do understand the appeal of her music, although I think she's a better artist when she ditches the outfits and autotune. Also her videos. Dear goodness, her videos once had meaning but the stuff she does these days just seems like it's trying to be controversial for the sake of it.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Also her videos. Dear goodness, her videos once had meaning but the stuff she does these days just seems like it's trying to be controversial for the sake of it.

She lost me at the mirrored space vaginas.

[Krylo]

I enjoyed Fallout 3 more than New Vegas. A lot of the criticism are true, but in New Vegas, from the outset there were paths you literally couldn't take without getting your head ripped off. It was fairly realistic that I shouldn't be able to go that way because certain monsters might group in certain areas, but it's a roleplaying sandbox game, and if I want to go north, I'd like to have that as a reasonable option. The rest of the game very well be better but when a game annoys me that close to the beginning it just dampens the rest of the experience. You can TOTALLY go north. It's just harder.

I've done it before.

Once I even ran into a cazador that had somehow been bugged into being immortal. Couldn't even use console to make it killable. Still knocked that bitch out and walked past him.

Edit: Cut out a lot of the main quest line, though.

[Marc v4.0]

He is the DM


I love how people bitched and moaned about Oblivions scaling level system that coddles you, then people bitch and moan that the beth Fallout games have areas with really deadly shit you can't fight at level 1

[Bells]

i think it's more to the level of "it's a sandbox game, but the game is trying to push me through a fixed path", the game totally does have a linearity that connects even the sidequests, so much that is quite easy to lock yourself out of many things if you try to make things your own way. On the other hand, if you follow the path the game wants you to follow, way before the end you will have hitted the Level cap.

Also, it has invisible walls in some areas to force you to through some areas to reach other areas... don't know if Oblivion is like that, i declined to play it when i saw that i would have to install Mods that added to twice the size of the normal game to play the game the way i wanted to play it....

[RickZarber]

Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and we all think they stink.Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has several and they must be exercised frequently or forgotten entirely.


/JeffreyRowland

[Arcanum]

DT is a massive improvement and stops bullet sponges, allowing enemies to be dealt with quicker and easier as long as you know what you're doing, the only way you could have this complaint would be if you were REALLY bad at playing it. Also Fallout 3's writing was absolutely terrible, NV's was great.

When my guns feel pathetic and useless in New Vegas, but actually effective in Fallout 3, it seems like the bullet sponges are in NV and not 3. I shouldn't have to rely on my sniper partner to deal all the damage while I'm stuck with pistols, rifles, repeaters, and shotguns that can't even get past the DT (or get past it just barely) on a Legion patrol, simply because the game decided I don't deserve my own sniper rifle yet, and my stats weren't high enough to get the right perks because I was busy getting perks that I wanted, and not what the game says I need.

If you're given all these options, and punished for not picking the "right" ones, then that's not being bad at the game, that's poor game design.

Speaking of poor game design: Mass Effect 2's Insanity difficulty was absolutely stupid. Not the difficulty itself, but giving armor and shields to pretty much every enemy makes biotic characters almost completely ineffective, and the only viable class choices for that difficulty are Soldier, Engineer (I think, the one with the tech armor), or Infiltrator. The others are just a death wish.

[Marc v4.0]

Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has several and they must be exercised frequently or forgotten entirely.


/JeffreyRowland

Opinions are like assholes, and you are one major fucking opinion

^

[Marc v4.0]

When my guns feel pathetic and useless in New Vegas, but actually effective in Fallout 3, it seems like the bullet sponges are in NV and not 3. I shouldn't have to rely on my sniper partner to deal all the damage while I'm stuck with pistols, rifles, repeaters, and shotguns that can't even get past the DT (or get past it just barely) on a Legion patrol, simply because the game decided I don't deserve my own sniper rifle yet, and my stats weren't high enough to get the right perks because I was busy getting perks that I wanted, and not what the game says I need.

If you're given all these options, and punished for not picking the "right" ones, then that's not being bad at the game, that's poor game design.

Speaking of poor game design: Mass Effect 2's Insanity difficulty was absolutely stupid. Not the difficulty itself, but giving armor and shields to pretty much every enemy makes biotic characters almost completely ineffective, and the only viable class choices for that difficulty are Soldier, Engineer (I think, the one with the tech armor), or Infiltrator. The others are just a death wish.

This is completely incomprehensible in light of my recent run-through in which I have forsaken almost all the 'must-have' combat boosting perks during the early and mid game for the great utility perks and never had a single problem even fighting things over my head. Even without Overkill Boone

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

When my guns feel pathetic and useless in New Vegas, but actually effective in Fallout 3, it seems like the bullet sponges are in NV and not 3. I shouldn't have to rely on my sniper partner to deal all the damage while I'm stuck with pistols, rifles, repeaters, and shotguns that can't even get past the DT (or get past it just barely) on a Legion patrol, simply because the game decided I don't deserve my own sniper rifle yet, and my stats weren't high enough to get the right perks because I was busy getting perks that I wanted, and not what the game says I need.

If you're given all these options, and punished for not picking the "right" ones, then that's not being bad at the game, that's poor game design.

Speaking of poor game design: Mass Effect 2's Insanity difficulty was absolutely stupid. Not the difficulty itself, but giving armor and shields to pretty much every enemy makes biotic characters almost completely ineffective, and the only viable class choices for that difficulty are Soldier, Engineer (I think, the one with the tech armor), or Infiltrator. The others are just a death wish.

I don't even know what to tell you if you can't do a Vanguard run on any difficulty.

And the whole DT thing is just..what? I mean, if you're popping at the enemy with a 4% health 9mm with 14 skill in guns maybe but other than that you're just going to tear through people with your weapon of choice anyway, so long as you properly maintain it and have at least some passing skill in its use. Especially if you use Armor piercing ammo.

Besides all this, it's not "poor game design" that you cannot pop one shot to every head without breaking a sweat. It's a challenge.
If you're willing to admit that it's a challenge you're not up to, fine. But it's not bad game design in the slightest.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I actually felt DT was more liberating in regards to weapon choice. Pistols actually felt like they had an affect sometimes as opposed to their mostly useless status in Fallout 3.

[Arcanum]

I don't even know what to tell you if you can't do a Vanguard run on any difficulty.

Vanguard is my go-to class in Mass Effect, but with the damage you take on Insanity and the fact that your biotics are useless, you need to have the patience or timing or luck of a god to get close enough to do some damage without dying or getting horribly wounded (and then it's back to hiding some more). It's more of a hassle than a challenge.

Blah blah blah Fallout

Whatever, it's been a while since I played the game (several months, borrowed it from a friend) so I'm possibly exaggerating on a few things. I just remember giving him the game back because I was tired of my weapons feeling ineffective. (And for the record I kept all my gear at full health and my gun skill was over 50 at around level 12 or 13). I never had that problem with Fallout 3, so I find it the better of the two. If you wish to argue this further I will politely direct you to the thread title :)

[Archbio]

My opinion is that opining either way about Lady Gaga's face in this thread is dumb.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

If I'd known this forum had an unsatisfiable hard-on for Firefly I wouldn't have said I enjoy it, but it's severely overrated, I'd have said it's the worst TV show ever, and is only considered good because it ended before it could majorly fuck up, so its cancellation is the best thing ever just to troll people.

EDIT: The fuck about Lady Gaga's Face? Neither is she particularly beautiful, nor ugly at all. I'm a man with taste, I know what I'm talking about.

[Osterbaum]

Don't you fucking dare touch Firefly with your dirty assholes, you are not worthy.

[Premmy]

Don't you fucking dare touch Firefly with your dirty assholes, you are not worthy.

My opinion's not dirty, man. the fuck?

[BloodyMage]

Not gonna keep this going any longer than it needs to, but just to clarify:

You can TOTALLY go north. It's just harder.

I've done it before.

Once I even ran into a cazador that had somehow been bugged into being immortal. Couldn't even use console to make it killable. Still knocked that bitch out and walked past him.

Edit: Cut out a lot of the main quest line, though.

Yes, I realise it's possible, but it felt as though the game was punishing me for trying to go in a different direction. I'd played Fallout 3 and I was pretty eager to play New Vegas, so coming out of the first town, I was experienced enough with the mechanics that I wanted to go exploring before getting into the main quest too much. I took a few steps north and found myself in the middle of a horde of radscorpions. The big ones, I forget what they're called. Barely made it through them to a little place where they warn me about deatheaters. I figured oh, they'll be in the quarry, I'll take this road and I'll avoid them because I don't feel like fighting death eaters with a crappy little pistol. I was still ambushed by three or four of them along the road.

It felt a little like I had to play the main quest so much just to open up the game, which was just disappointing.


I love how people bitched and moaned about Oblivions scaling level system that coddles you, then people bitch and moan that the beth Fallout games have areas with really deadly shit you can't fight at level 1

I liked the scaling system, at least the one in Fallout 3. Sure, some areas still had pretty deadly creatures but if you wanted to go exploring you could. In some of my play throughs I found most of the map land marks without really advancing the story too much, and it didn't skip it, but I was able to do that because of the scaling system and that was fun. I know level scaling isn't realistic but I do prefer it.

I was extremely overleveled for the main quest though.

[Marc v4.0]

FO3 didn't have a scaling system so much as it locked the only dangerous creatures all the way out in the NE corner of the map in one small settlement that you had to really look for and everything else was a cake-walk.

NV just dumped a box of jackson's chameleons, tarantula hawks and coyote-snakes on the map and said "Good luck with all that"

[BloodyMage]

Except, when I first left the vault Megaton was surrounded by Mole Rats. When I came back later it was mostly radscorpians and by the end of the game it was just one albino radscorpian that would just kill their robotic guard and chase the merchants. At that point, you had to go exploring just to find the mole rats.

I mean, it's less scaling and more like huge leaps, but it was still there.

[The SSB Intern]

I am of the opinion who the hell cares about Fallout.

[Osterbaum]

I am of the asshole who the hell cares about other peoples assholes?

[Marc v4.0]

I am of the asshole who the hell cares about other peoples assholes?

The Republican Party is very interested in assholes and what people are doing with/to them.

[Kerensky287]

]Speaking of poor game design: Mass Effect 2's Insanity difficulty was absolutely stupid. Not the difficulty itself, but giving armor and shields to pretty much every enemy makes biotic characters almost completely ineffective, and the only viable class choices for that difficulty are Soldier, Engineer (I think, the one with the tech armor), or Infiltrator. The others are just a death wish.

My single Insanity runthrough is on an Adept.

Just fuckin' bring somebody with Overload, and put a bunch of points into Warp. Seriously, your cooldown eventually gets to the point where you can have another effect out before the previous one ends - the moment somebody's shields drop, they're dead if you know what you're doing.

Harbinger can go fuck himself though.

[Azisien]

Doesn't seem right to complain about top-tier difficulty settings either, in any game. I mean they're always labelled Insane and Impossible or Unbeatable, etc etc.

If you booted up a game and chose the difficult UNBEATABLE, and it was actually unbeatable, what would you think? I mean it's silly, obviously, but you did choose to play unbeatable, and got what you chose.

Really impossible mode is very forgiving, because it is still possible.

[Ecks]

Look at this face. Look at it. And tell me you are not enthralled.

http://imagemacros.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/this_pleases_gaga.jpg

[Azisien]

Well here's the thing, she wears weird shit. WEARS.

If you look at her actual face, I dunno, seems pretty normal to me.

[Ecks]

The weird shit is endearing to me, okay? At least she's got that, instead of trying to outwhore every other chick her age.

[Marc v4.0]

That really isn't an attractive picture by any stretch of the imagination.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Yes, I realise it's possible, but it felt as though the game was punishing me for trying to go in a different direction. I'd played Fallout 3 and I was pretty eager to play New Vegas, so coming out of the first town, I was experienced enough with the mechanics that I wanted to go exploring before getting into the main quest too much. I took a few steps north and found myself in the middle of a horde of radscorpions. The big ones, I forget what they're called. Barely made it through them to a little place where they warn me about deatheaters. I figured oh, they'll be in the quarry, I'll take this road and I'll avoid them because I don't feel like fighting death eaters with a crappy little pistol. I was still ambushed by three or four of them along the road.

It felt a little like I had to play the main quest so much just to open up the game, which was just disappointing.



I liked the scaling system, at least the one in Fallout 3. Sure, some areas still had pretty deadly creatures but if you wanted to go exploring you could. In some of my play throughs I found most of the map land marks without really advancing the story too much, and it didn't skip it, but I was able to do that because of the scaling system and that was fun. I know level scaling isn't realistic but I do prefer it.

I was extremely overleveled for the main quest though.



I...Isn't that the point?
I mean you can do it, me n' Krylo are apparently proof of that. You just have to know what you're doing and be a bit prepared.

Honestly I'd feel pretty ripped off if the game told me HEY DON'T FUCKIN GO THAT WAY THERE'S FLIES FROM HELL AND DEATHCLAWS and I'd gone in that direction only to find it was a candy coated road paved with Stimpacks and caps.

[BloodyMage]

I can do it. I'm not expecting to be told there's going to be deathclaws in the quarry area and then not find the deathclaws in the quarry area. But I'd like, as an experienced player, of having the opportunity to go north,and explore the area, maybe stay away from a particular area because I know it would take far too much effort with a current level and/or weapons, maybe do some side quests up north and come back to the story when I feel up to it.

I don't want to go north to find that actually, it's not just one area with deathclaws, but it's actually littered with the creatures meaning that anyone under leveled is basically being told in no uncertain terms to turn back because the game wants me to go the other way. There's a difference between being prepared and being straight up incapable. You either have to have maxed out a skill, out run about five of them, or mod the game to gave yourself a fair chance. The guy said they were north, with particular reference to the quarry, so I intentionally bared east and still found a bunch of them just waiting about.

I'll just say this: It's a role playing game, but that design, although possible, made it feel a lot more linear than I expected a fallout game to be.

[Krylo]

The Quarry (Deathclaws) is East by Northeast. Straight north from the starting town there's some cazadors and some rather tough raiders (one has the upgraded metal armor and plasma grenades), but no Deathclaws. North by Northeast is Giant Radscorpions.

There's only deathclaws in one place in that general vicinity.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I can usually snake my way up North pretty well. Difficult, but certainly possible. There are other ways there as well that are safer, like the Novac Road, but thats a bit longer.

e: I have met maybe one deatclaw in the area. May have been a random encounter, but I was leaning a bit close to the quartries. Just steer clear of the quarry and Cazadors will be the worst of your problems.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Fallout talk.

I think y'all need to cut that shit out.

[Seil]

I dun think Tina Fey is all that attractive.

[Azisien]

Requesting mod thread title name change to "Unpopular Opinions and Fallout Discussion Thread"

[Darth SS]

I dun think Tina Fey is all that attractive.

Have you seen the photo where she's got the minnie mouse hat?


New opinion!!

Nicky Minaj is not even remotely attractive.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Nicky Minaj? Who the hell is

http://www.sweetslyrics.com/images/img_gal/348_nicki-minaj-011.jpg

fuuuuuuck run run run

[Arcanum]

Requesting mod thread title name change to "Unpopular Opinions and Fallout Discussion Thread"

I can't help but think this is partly my fault.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

While I do not find Nicki Minaj attractive in the slightest, I would indeed hit that. Or I'd get hit. I dunno. She seems kind of freaky.

[The SSB Intern]

While I do not find Nicki Minaj attractive in the slightest, I would indeed hit that. Or I'd get hit. I dunno. She seems kind of freaky.

She has ass implants. Hitting that might be a bit rougher than you think.

Or so I've heard.

[Jagos]

-snip-

I can only think of Aqua's Barbie Girl for some reason...

[Nique]

[I can only think of Aqua's Barbie Girl for some reason...

A good song!

[Premmy]

why would Nicki Minaj remind someone of good songs?



















































why do you think Barbie Girl is a good song?

[Solid Snake]

Speaking of Good Songs... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvFsT9tphGo)

(Andrew Hussie I blame my addiction to this song entirely on you)

[BloodyMage]

The Quarry (Deathclaws) is East by Northeast. Straight north from the starting town there's some cazadors and some rather tough raiders (one has the upgraded metal armor and plasma grenades), but no Deathclaws. North by Northeast is Giant Radscorpions.

There's only deathclaws in one place in that general vicinity.

Maybe it was Northwest. It's been a while and I'm bad with directions anyway. What I do know is that the quarry was on one side, and I made a point to head in a northward manner in the opposite direction. I did meet the cazadors that you mentioned, but just beyond that there was a little bit that was more open. I was high ground at the time, and sneaking so they didn't immediately notice me, but there were at least two or three prowling around. I think I toppled one with a mixture of rifle fire and grenades. I decided it would be better to just run for it. Another two appeared after those two. Didn't seem like a random encounter, but there's definitely deathclaws in that area.

I can't help but think this is partly my fault.

Mostly mine for continuing it.

[Osterbaum]

There's deathclaws by the train tracks further to the north, maybe a bit to the NE from the starting position.

[Fifthfiend]

I think y'all need to cut that shit out.

Eh, I'll take it over "internet nerds inform you which famous, highly successful female recording artists they think are fug gug gugly ugly uggouggs"

[Krylo]

What Fifth said.

Also, I just pipe in when I have knowledge on what is being discussed.

There's deathclaws by the train tracks further to the north, maybe a bit to the NE from the starting position.

It's been awhile but I'm pretty sure the tracks you're talking about are waaaay to the east. Near the boomer place.

I guess I might be forgetting some more directly northerly, but I can't think of any.

[Marc v4.0]

There are some tracks north from Sloan, but that's the East path to the North. The West path to the North shouldn't have any Deathclaws at all unless you stray too far.


Eh, I'll take it over "internet nerds inform you which famous, highly successful female recording artists they think are fug gug gugly ugly uggouggs"

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4549162/41f5d9c9-47e4-49ed-b8e3-73a714ad499b.jpg

[Krylo]

There are some tracks north from Sloan, but that's the East path to the North.

Those are in/to/through the quarry, though. They're tracks for quarry carts.

I was just considering them the deathclaw quarry mentioned before.

[Fifthfiend]

Next on the topic list:

JK Rowling - would you hit it

(answer: yes)

[Fifthfiend]

But only if she let me wear my Gryffindor scarf.

[Krylo]

Slytherin for life.

[Marc v4.0]

Those are in/to/through the quarry, though. They're tracks for quarry carts.

I was just considering them the deathclaw quarry mentioned before.

There are tracks past that point as well, down towards a small station, and running along the road but not going into the quarry

[Fifthfiend]

Slytherin for life.

I'd Slytherin to that is all i'm sayin eh wot

[BitVyper]

I'd Slytherin to that is all i'm sayin eh wot

....I'm a Hufflepuff! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0Z5_wipT2o)

[Osterbaum]

There are tracks past that point as well, down towards a small station, and running along the road but not going into the quarry
I'm propably thinking of the area around that small station.

[BloodyMage]

The point is, there's deathclaws there. I was going where I thought I wouldn't find deathclaws and found deathclaws. It put a damper on my experience since it was relatively early on.

Considering J.K. Rowling wrote a whole series about a devious, manipulative creep who stalked and preyed on a teenage boy, I don't think we're her type.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

The point is, there's deathclaws there. I was going where I thought I wouldn't find deathclaws and found deathclaws. It put a damper on my experience since it was relatively early on.

Considering J.K. Rowling wrote a whole series about a devious, manipulative creep who stalked and preyed on a teenage boy, I don't think we're her type.

I'm 16, I'm totally her type!

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

The point is, there's deathclaws there. I was going where I thought I wouldn't find deathclaws and found deathclaws. It put a damper on my experience since it was relatively early on.

Considering J.K. Rowling wrote a whole series about a devious, manipulative creep who stalked and preyed on a teenage boy, I don't think we're her type.

But the game told you there'd be Deathclaws there.
Reminds me of an RPG where you see a sign that says "DO NOT JUMP DOWN THIS HOLE" and you jump down it anyway to see what happens and the message "YOU JUMPED IN THE HOLE AND DIED, YOU MORON" pops up.
To me the only logical response is to have a bit of a chuckle and then move on, because no matter what you might have expected with all the subversion of cliches and tropes around, and no matter how you spin the story, the end all be all message is: "The game told me that what I was about to do was pretty suicidal and I did it anyway."

[The Sevenshot Kid]

I'm 16, I'm totally her type!

Holy shit. I'm a hypocrite.

[BloodyMage]

But the game told you there'd be Deathclaws there.
Reminds me of an RPG where you see a sign that says "DO NOT JUMP DOWN THIS HOLE" and you jump down it anyway to see what happens and the message "YOU JUMPED IN THE HOLE AND DIED, YOU MORON" pops up.
To me the only logical response is to have a bit of a chuckle and then move on, because no matter what you might have expected with all the subversion of cliches and tropes around, and no matter how you spin the story, the end all be all message is: "The game told me that what I was about to do was pretty suicidal and I did it anyway."

Except it's more like finding a sign that says 'DON'T JUMP DOWN THIS HOLE', avoiding that hole and jumping down the next one and dying anyway, because actually the game made it difficult to go north, told me one area was pretty suicidal, and even by avoiding that area it still turned out to be suicidal.

Which is pretty much a symptom of a larger problem. As I've said before, it felt like the game was telling me to go back, and follow the pre-set path of Goodsprings - Primm - Nipton - Novac. From there it opens up, but that's not really a good role playing game. I should have the freedom to go where where I want in a roleplaying sand box game, which is why I prefer Fallout 3. After you left the vault you were encouraged to go Megaton but the game never really tried to stop you if you felt inclined to walk all the way to the Republic of Dave. You were specifically told there were Death Claws at Old Olney which you could avoid without any trouble at all. I'm not saying it's too hard, I'm saying it was intentionally harder than it should have been just to force you, the player, on to the path the game designers wanted you on. That's what made it less enjoyable for me.

[pochercoaster]

Inception sucks.

[Osterbaum]

pocheros sucks. That's my unpopular opinion.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

This thread sucks. That's not an unpopular opinion, just an obvious observation.

[Marc v4.0]

Except it's more like finding a sign that says 'DON'T JUMP DOWN THIS HOLE', avoiding that hole and jumping down the next one and dying anyway, because actually the game made it difficult to go north, told me one area was pretty suicidal, and even by avoiding that area it still turned out to be suicidal.

Which is pretty much a symptom of a larger problem. As I've said before, it felt like the game was telling me to go back, and follow the pre-set path of Goodsprings - Primm - Nipton - Novac. From there it opens up, but that's not really a good role playing game. I should have the freedom to go where where I want in a roleplaying sand box game, which is why I prefer Fallout 3. After you left the vault you were encouraged to go Megaton but the game never really tried to stop you if you felt inclined to walk all the way to the Republic of Dave. You were specifically told there were Death Claws at Old Olney which you could avoid without any trouble at all. I'm not saying it's too hard, I'm saying it was intentionally harder than it should have been just to force you, the player, on to the path the game designers wanted you on. That's what made it less enjoyable for me.

Dangerous animals generally don't settle in places with the intent of making us all feel better but the point remains that it is only one section of the direct north route that is blocked off, the other being not even half that dangerous a prospect.

I don't really understand it. Deathclaws in 3 weren't a huge deal because they were way the fuck out in the middle of nowhere and easy to completely avoid..and that was a problem. Why bother having a dangerous creature if you can completely ignore the existance of it? Why have it if the risk to encounter it is nill?

Really, this isn't some new thing to RPGs, some places have really tough monsters, and some of those places can be right next door. Fallout 1 and 2 had high level Mutant/Raider patrols and Enclave patrols that would pen you away from certain spots and mean almost certain death if you tried to go that way before you were tough enough to kill them. You could get past them, but it was a lot of risk in order to actually cut yourself off from a lot of the story.

[pochercoaster]

pocheros sucks. That's my unpopular opinion.

Osterbaum sucks. Wait, this thread is for UNpopular opinions...

Edit: Also I'm too late for this, but guys look at my avatar, what could possibly be wrong with Lady Gaga's face?

[BloodyMage]

Dangerous animals generally don't settle in places with the intent of making us all feel better but the point remains that it is only one section of the direct north route that is blocked off, the other being not even half that dangerous a prospect.

Except I keep telling you it is as dangerous because I've experienced it, and a few other people have at least confirmed that the area does exist. I realise that keeping them in one area isn't realistic but at least it would be a true statement to say 'deathclaws are in the quarry' which implied that to avoid the quarry is to avoid deathclaws, but that's proven to be an untrue statement. That was annoying. I'm not really playing Fallout for realism anyway.

I don't really understand it. Deathclaws in 3 weren't a huge deal because they were way the fuck out in the middle of nowhere and easy to completely avoid..and that was a problem. Why bother having a dangerous creature if you can completely ignore the existance of it? Why have it if the risk to encounter it is nill?

Until you played Broken Steel which put you right in the middle of them. Even before that, the game did have a system of scaling. The Deathclaws at the very start were in Old Olney and there was one near Dunwich Building, and there was also a nest somewhere else I think, but none would ever randomly spawn. By level ten you'd find a lot more Yao Gui and by level 20 the only creatures you'd ever really come into contact with were Mirelurk Kings, Deathclaws and Supermutant Masters because those were the only things that ever spawned. In Broken steel, by 30 you'd only come across deathclaws, albino radscorpians, overlords and reavers. So the risk of encounter really wasn't nil at all.

Of course, you could go to old Olney at level one if you wanted, but you were neither deterred nor forced to go there. In New Vegas, you're deterred from going North because that's where they are, specifically the quarry but as stated also in other parts, so the game is pretty much telling you to do the Goodsprings - Primm - Nipton - Novac route.

Really, this isn't some new thing to RPGs, some places have really tough monsters, and some of those places can be right next door. Fallout 1 and 2 had high level Mutant/Raider patrols and Enclave patrols that would pen you away from certain spots and mean almost certain death if you tried to go that way before you were tough enough to kill them. You could get past them, but it was a lot of risk in order to actually cut yourself off from a lot of the story.

I'm aware it isn't new. I haven't played much of Fallout 2, but I know in Fallout 1, upon leaving vault 13 you were advised to go to Shady Sands but there was nothing really stopping bypassing it and going to the Hub or Junktown, if I remember correctly. You'd meet some encounters along the way which might give you some difficulty but nothing I would consider along the same lines as a starting character verses a horde of death claws.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

In Final Fantasy 8 the first thing I did was go to the place labelled training centre only to run straight into one of those t-rexes.

[greed]

By level ten you'd find a lot more Yao Gui and by level 20 the only creatures you'd ever really come into contact with were Mirelurk Kings, Deathclaws and Supermutant Masters because those were the only things that ever spawned. In Broken steel, by 30 you'd only come across deathclaws, albino radscorpians, overlords and reavers. So the risk of encounter really wasn't nil at all.

This is annoying and lazy game design. Scaling stuff based on your level is terrible and reduces the fun of exploration.

I'm aware it isn't new. I haven't played much of Fallout 2, but I know in Fallout 1, upon leaving vault 13 you were advised to go to Shady Sands but there was nothing really stopping bypassing it and going to the Hub or Junktown, if I remember correctly. You'd meet some encounters along the way which might give you some difficulty but nothing I would consider along the same lines as a starting character verses a horde of death claws.

Try going from Arroyo to San Fran with the patch so your new PC doesn't make the journey last 1 second. That's more what the equivalent of skipping right to Vegas is.
Also as numerous people have said getting past those death claws is far from impossible (including yes the ones that spawn away from the quarry a little bit to the north), honestly it's barely difficult. You're complaining about them making the shortcut to the second act somewhat difficult compared to to taking the suggested route. Frankly I'd be pissed if it wasn't hard to just go ambling right to Vegas. I sure remember being disappointed not finding anything threatening in Cyrodil or DC (except Old Olney) when I was just some level one punk with starting weapons and armour.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Except it's more like finding a sign that says 'DON'T JUMP DOWN THIS HOLE', avoiding that hole and jumping down the next one and dying anyway, because actually the game made it difficult to go north, told me one area was pretty suicidal, and even by avoiding that area it still turned out to be suicidal. But that's still a pretty silly expectation. The game can't put signs in front of every obstacle, challenge and pit to warn you about them and tell you what you should be before you go in.

Except it's more like finding a sign that says 'DON'T JUMP DOWN THIS HOLE', avoiding that hole and jumping down the next one and dying anyway, because actually the game made it difficult to go north, told me one area was pretty suicidal, and even by avoiding that area it still turned out to be suicidal.

Which is pretty much a symptom of a larger problem. As I've said before, it felt like the game was telling me to go back, and follow the pre-set path of Goodsprings - Primm - Nipton - Novac. From there it opens up, but that's not really a good role playing game. I should have the freedom to go where where I want in a roleplaying sand box game, which is why I prefer Fallout 3. After you left the vault you were encouraged to go Megaton but the game never really tried to stop you if you felt inclined to walk all the way to the Republic of Dave. You were specifically told there were Death Claws at Old Olney which you could avoid without any trouble at all. I'm not saying it's too hard, I'm saying it was intentionally harder than it should have been just to force you, the player, on to the path the game designers wanted you on. That's what made it less enjoyable for me.


The game tells you Going north is Suicidal. Not that the quarry is suicidal, not that the giant radscorpions are, but that heading to the north is asking for trouble because the route is filled with the biggest baddest monsters in the Mojave.

It specifically tells you that the route between Goodsprings and New Vegas by heading that direction is a dreathtrap, which is why nobody is using it. They tell you about the Quarry because that's the nest. But that doesn't really mean they're not going to be anywhere else. Especially since they're hunters.
If a pack of lions live in a cave, does that mean they're only ever going to be seen at that cave?
It's like in 3, the game tells you there's a lot of Super Mutants in that one vault, but that doesn't mean they're not going to be other places.

[BloodyMage]

Also as numerous people have said getting past those death claws is far from impossible (including yes the ones that spawn away from the quarry a little bit to the north), honestly it's barely difficult. You're complaining about them making the shortcut to the second act somewhat difficult compared to to taking the suggested route. Frankly I'd be pissed if it wasn't hard to just go ambling right to Vegas. I sure remember being disappointed not finding anything threatening in Cyrodil or DC (except Old Olney) when I was just some level one punk with starting weapons and armour.

I'm aware it's not impossible, and it can be done. That's not the problem. I wasn't even trying to go to New Vegas, I was just trying to explore the new region, but apparently I had to play through a sizeable amount of the story before I could really do that. By cutting off that one route, they've made it so that the entire North region is far less accessible than the south, which makes it far less interesting. The game is pretty much saying 'you should be content with the south until you reach Novac.' It's a sand box game, but I'm being told to play in one half the box.

But that's still a pretty silly expectation. The game can't put signs in front of every obstacle, challenge and pit to warn you about them and tell you what you should be before you go in.

Not really. If you're told that the lions are in the cave, and you avoid the cave, maybe you'll see one or two but the implication is that if you avoid the cave you'll avoid the lions. That isn't the case.

The game tells you Going north is Suicidal. Not that the quarry is suicidal, not that the giant radscorpions are, but that heading to the north is asking for trouble because the route is filled with the biggest baddest monsters in the Mojave.

And I was prepared to deal with this. I already told you I got past the giant radscorpians.

It specifically tells you that the route between Goodsprings and New Vegas by heading that direction is a dreathtrap, which is why nobody is using it. They tell you about the Quarry because that's the nest. But that doesn't really mean they're not going to be anywhere else. Especially since they're hunters.
If a pack of lions live in a cave, does that mean they're only ever going to be seen at that cave?
It's like in 3, the game tells you there's a lot of Super Mutants in that one vault, but that doesn't mean they're not going to be other places.

Thing is, I'm not talking about random encounters or other areas where they are. It's not like I'm complaining that there's deathclaws anywhere in the game other than the quarry. They mentioned the quarry had deathclaws so I avoided the quarry. I was prepared to face more giant radscoprians, or cazadors. I knew it wouldn't be easy. I didn't expect however, to be told that the quarry is where the death claws are, bypass the quarry and find a small herd of them a little further on anyway. I may as well have just walked into the quarry.

I'm not necessarily saying it's realistic, but again I'm not exactly playing Fallout for realism.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

I'm aware it's not impossible, and it can be done. That's not the problem. I wasn't even trying to go to New Vegas, I was just trying to explore the new region, but apparently I had to play through a sizeable amount of the story before I could really do that. By cutting off that one route, they've made it so that the entire North region is far less accessible than the south, which makes it far less interesting. The game is pretty much saying 'you should be content with the south until you reach Novac.' It's a sand box game, but I'm being told to play in one half the box.

Honestly, why is this a problem? What would even be the point of leveling, gaining gear and experience throughout a game if you could just waltz wherever you like at level 1 and do exactly as well as a level 35?
Seriously. Tell me.
If I have a level 35 who's been through Old World Blues and has 40,000 caps and all the best guns and equipment and maxed out skills and I go to that quarry and have exactly as much trouble as a guy fresh outta Goodsprings, what was the point? Why should I have ever bothered with any of it? I should have just walked right up to the Fort, smacked Caesar in the face with a baseball bat and then done the battle for Hoover Dam with a 10mm and the Vault Jumpsuit.


Not really. If you're told that the lions are in the cave, and you avoid the cave, maybe you'll see one or two but the implication is that if you avoid the cave you'll avoid the lions. That isn't the case.

The thing is if the Lions (Deathclaws) are nested in that area, that means their prey is not going to be there anymore, having already been eaten or run off.
If the Lions (Deathclaws) stay in the cave all the live long day and go out only for the occasional stroll through the Mojave alone they're going to starve to death.


And I was prepared to deal with this. I already told you I got past the giant radscorpians.

I'd say you weren't, since...well, you didn't get through, right?


Thing is, I'm not talking about random encounters or other areas where they are. It's not like I'm complaining that there's deathclaws anywhere in the game other than the quarry. They mentioned the quarry had deathclaws so I avoided the quarry. I was prepared to face more giant radscoprians, or cazadors. I knew it wouldn't be easy. I didn't expect however, to be told that the quarry is where the death claws are, bypass the quarry and find a small herd of them a little further on anyway. I may as well have just walked into the quarry.

But again just because the Deathclaws are in the quarry, just because most of them stay there, doesn't really even come close to implying that they're all there.


I'm not necessarily saying it's realistic, but again I'm not exactly playing Fallout for realism.

What are you playing it for then? Do you want a mod that removes all the enemies so you can wander around freely? Or would you rather be playing a hunting game, where you can shoot helpless animals? It really seems like RPGs and Fallout in particular just aren't for you if you want to be able to do everything and anything from the getgo without putting something into it.

edit: At that: would you have felt any better about it had a pack of Cazadors been fluttering around?
Would it just being anything other than a Death claw had made it any better?

[Marc v4.0]

Generally when you see a nest of anything hive-centric/communial you are already knee-deep in the thing nesting at that point. Nests sit at the relative center of the territory, or bordered by obstructions.

Look at fire ants. The real ones. One mound of those things can have a working territory of anywhere from 10-20 feet depending upon the food source and rival populations.

Do you know how far 10 feet is for a thing the size of an ant? I would have to own my neighborhood, and that might not be big enough to scale.


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4549162/Quarry_Junction_loc.jpg


This is what we are talking about, this area contains all the Deathclaw spawn markers in question, easily avoidable. I was even generous on the size of it given they never spawn that close to the Hunter's Farm, they can just wander that far south chasing geckos and raiders. Some of that territory is invisible-wall blocked hills, too.

[BloodyMage]

Honestly, why is this a problem? What would even be the point of leveling, gaining gear and experience throughout a game if you could just waltz wherever you like at level 1 and do exactly as well as a level 35?
Seriously. Tell me.
If I have a level 35 who's been through Old World Blues and has 40,000 caps and all the best guns and equipment and maxed out skills and I go to that quarry and have exactly as much trouble as a guy fresh outta Goodsprings, what was the point? Why should I have ever bothered with any of it? I should have just walked right up to the Fort, smacked Caesar in the face with a baseball bat and then done the battle for Hoover Dam with a 10mm and the Vault Jumpsuit.

That's kind of missing the point. I'm not saying that things shouldn't get easier/be scaled to my experience and weapons, but as a level 1 character (or relatively low) I intentionally avoided the deathclaws because I knew I probably didn't have the experience or weapons as a character to deal with them and moved away from them. I'd have done the same thing in Fallout 3 as a level 1 character to avoid Old Olney. It felt like the designers of New Vegas weren't just using them to challenge me as a player though, but to actually keep me playing through the story how they wanted.

The thing is if the Lions (Deathclaws) are nested in that area, that means their prey is not going to be there anymore, having already been eaten or run off.
If the Lions (Deathclaws) stay in the cave all the live long day and go out only for the occasional stroll through the Mojave alone they're going to starve to death.

Except they won't starve because they prey on people, who are pretty abundant in Sloan. There weren't even any humans where I was though, and you'd have to double back to get to Sloan, so I don't know why they'd be there if they were hunting. Not to mention, the game doesn't even work like that. Real living breathing animals such as Lions might, but the deathclaws aren't programmed like that. It's entirely possible to find a high position and just spy on them as I did later in the game.

I'd say you weren't, since...well, you didn't get through, right?

For Radscorpions? Sure. For Death claws? Nope. Giant Radscoprians have a higher DT but lower health, but they're also slower and more predictable. Although the wiki says they have no discernable tactics, I've often found them to rush a head, stopping slightly to prepare the stinger, as which point you can rush to the side and keep attacking. Granted it's easier with better weapons, but it's more easily done than Death claws who are much faster, more agile and have pretty much zero time between when they rush ahead and their claw swipe.

But again just because the Deathclaws are in the quarry, just because most of them stay there, doesn't really even come close to implying that they're all there.

In such a close area, I'd expect it to just be labelled as a deathclaw hunting area, rather than simply mentioning the quarry as a nest. It sort of just felt like an ambush.

What are you playing it for then? Do you want a mod that removes all the enemies so you can wander around freely? Or would you rather be playing a hunting game, where you can shoot helpless animals? It really seems like RPGs and Fallout in particular just aren't for you if you want to be able to do everything and anything from the getgo without putting something into it.

Fun? I enjoy roleplaying games, and I enjoy Fallout. I'm saying I preferred New Vegas over Fallout 3 because it felt like the game wanted me to do one thing and wasn't really prepared to give me the option. The options were 'fairly straigtforward' or 'extremely difficult'. Even if the north path is doable, no one would call it easy, and those are some pretty diverse extremes.

It was strikingly similar to how Final Fantasy 13 placed you on a linear path before it really opened up the world to you. That's not a great comparison because they're rather different games with different mechanics, but I simply mean that, for a roleplaying sand box game, it felt like there was a remarkable lack of options from the get go.

edit: At that: would you have felt any better about it had a pack of Cazadors been fluttering around?
Would it just being anything other than a Death claw had made it any better?

Pretty much, yeah. I've already explained above that I can deal with giant radscorpions. Cazadores are somewhere in between for me. Their sting seems more effective than the radscorpion, come in larger packs most of the time and they're still faster, but they have zero DT and it's fairly easy to cripple their wings. Either way, yeah, they'd have been better than deathclaws.

[Marc v4.0]

I figured it was generally assumed when you heard a place had a nest of something nasty, you avoided that place as much as possible.

Unless you think bees are only found and dangerous if you stick your head in the hive.

[BloodyMage]

I don't expect to be told there's a beehive in my garden and then find a swarm in my room.

I think it's fair to say, I have the most unpopular opinion...

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Pretty much, yeah. I've already explained above that I can deal with giant radscorpions. Cazadores are somewhere in between for me. Their sting seems more effective than the radscorpion, come in larger packs most of the time and they're still faster, but they have zero DT and it's fairly easy to cripple their wings. Either way, yeah, they'd have been better than deathclaws.

Now I know you tried, but if it was just the Death Claws you had a problem with why didn't you just go back and go the other way around them?

Take a look at the map Marc posted. There's a road straight up there that's well beyond their area.

At that it sounds like you were fighting them wrong. Short of the best of the best you can't toe to toe a Death Claw and survive long. You either take them out at a distance, punch them to death before they can strike or get somewhere they can't reach.
Stick to the cliff face along the wall and you'll find places you can jump along that they just plain can't get up.

[BitVyper]

I don't expect to be told there's a beehive in my garden and then find a swarm in my room.

I think it's fair to say, I have the most unpopular opinion...

Eh, it kind of annoyed me too. Mainly 'cause the Deathclaws weren't just really really tough, but pretty much flat out impossible. Although I'm sure someone will tell me how they broke that area.

It should have been more possible to improvise a solution at low levels there. Having the Deathclaws form a solid wall was irritating.

[BloodyMage]

Now I know you tried, but if it was just the Death Claws you had a problem with why didn't you just go back and go the other way around them?

Take a look at the map Marc posted. There's a road straight up there that's well beyond their area.

At that it sounds like you were fighting them wrong. Short of the best of the best you can't toe to toe a Death Claw and survive long. You either take them out at a distance, punch them to death before they can strike or get somewhere they can't reach.
Stick to the cliff face along the wall and you'll find places you can jump along that they just plain can't get up.

Maybe it was Northwest. It's been a while and I'm bad with directions anyway. What I do know is that the quarry was on one side, and I made a point to head in a northward manner in the opposite direction. I did meet the cazadors that you mentioned, but just beyond that there was a little bit that was more open. I was high ground at the time, and sneaking so they didn't immediately notice me, but there were at least two or three prowling around. I think I toppled one with a mixture of rifle fire and grenades. I decided it would be better to just run for it. Another two appeared after those two. Didn't seem like a random encounter, but there's definitely deathclaws in that area.

Basically, I was staying on high ground but this being early in the game, I didn't have nearly enough weapons and ammunition to take care of all three, and bolted for it, but ran into another two.

When I reloaded, I did just said 'screw it' and went on to primm, since I'd only really been exploring at the time anyway. As I said, it just sort of hurt my overall experience that I ran into them at such an early stage. I came back later with a sniper rifle and took care of them, and the ones in the quarry, but it was irritating that it felt like the game for forcing me to continue with the story before I could fully explore the wasteland.

[Marc v4.0]

It is unfortunate you felt it was forcing you, and even more so your refusal to listen that it wasn't because alternate paths existed in the same direction. It wasn't keeping you from getting through to Vegas through the north path, it was keeping you from going around the area the Quarry is at.

To explain from the FO3 vantage, it is like complaining you can't get to the Republic of Dave because OO is in the path, and then ignoring everyone saying you can just as easily go around OO, just mind the mirelurks and bears.

[BloodyMage]

To explain from the FO3 vantage, it is like complaining you can't get to the Republic of Dave because OO is in the path, and then ignoring everyone saying you can just as easily go around OO, just mind the mirelurks and bears.


Which is pretty much a symptom of a larger problem. As I've said before, it felt like the game was telling me to go back, and follow the pre-set path of Goodsprings - Primm - Nipton - Novac. From there it opens up, but that's not really a good role playing game. I should have the freedom to go where where I want in a roleplaying sand box game, which is why I prefer Fallout 3. After you left the vault you were encouraged to go to Megaton but the game never really tried to stop you if you felt inclined to walk all the way to the Republic of Dave. You were specifically told there were Death Claws at Old Olney which you could avoid without any trouble at all. I'm not saying it's too hard, I'm saying it was intentionally harder than it should have been just to force you, the player, on to the path the game designers wanted you on. That's what made it less enjoyable for me.

If I relate in terms of the map you made, it's as if I drew a large circle around Old Olney. Except that's not necessary. From a fair distance you can see the death claws prowling along the outer edge of the town, but so long as you stay clear of the town itself you won't come across any in the immediate surrounding area.

[Krylo]

If I relate in terms of the map you made, it's as if I drew a large circle around Old Olney. Except that's not necessary. From a fair distance you can see the death claws prowling along the outer edge of the town, but so long as you stay clear of the town itself you won't come across any in the immediate surrounding area.

Yes you will.

I've fought lots of Deathclaws roaming past Old Olney because they happened to chase something out of town or whatever other silly AI reason. Died a couple times to them as well.

[Marc v4.0]

Deathclaws actually spawn around the town and inside it, they don't chase things out. You can check it, easy.

[BloodyMage]

As I said, they spawn on the outer edge. For reference, by immediate surrounding area I mean outside of that yellow box. For instance, you said there's a nest at Quarry Junction but you'll find them as far out as Junction 15 railway station. In Fallout 3, they're mainly at Old Olney, but you won't find any at the MDPL-16 power station (unless it's a random encounter, but I've never found a random deathclaw encounter there, but there is a glitch that spawns a death claw inside the station. It's a glitch though, so they aren't really meant to be there.) It's about the same relevant distance.

[Krylo]

Spawned around then. All I know is there's a number of times when I'd be like "Oh that's old olney annnd it's crawling with deathclaws, gonna just go OH GOD WHY IS THERE A DEATHCLAW EATING THE BACK OF MY HEAD"

[Marc v4.0]

Deathclaws, and enemies in general, and a wider detection range in FO3. If the NV Deathclaws had the same aggro radius, they'd have wiped out Sloan already.


the Olney DCs also had an underground network of tunnels and ruins to nest in, unlike the ones in the Quarry.


Either way, there is still a safer way North then wandering through the Deathclaws, -you are not blocked off and forced to go one way around only-. I can draw you a map if you like. In fact, I already did.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4549162/draw_you_a_fucking_map.png

The worst you get this way is Cazadores, and your basic weapons can handle them even at level 1.

[BloodyMage]

The point still remains that it's a lot easier to go south than it is to go north. There are many ways south, and only one single safe path north.

Not to mention, it isn't until much later that I even found such a path. I have played and finished the game, you know. When you come out of Goodsprings, you're generally on the east side though, so going north from there takes you directly North. That path is around the back of Goodsprings, or so it feels, but no one ever mentions. Everyone says going north is dangerous so go to Primm. I set out prepared to fight radscorpions and cazadores. I avoided the quarry. I still got caught in a fight with a bunch of deathclaws.

So yeah, there's a path north, around the back. It doesn't take away from the fact that the game is basically shoving you down the southern route.

[Marc v4.0]

Yeah, ok, whatever.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

The point still remains that it's a lot easier to go south than it is to go north. There are many ways south, and only one single safe path north.

Not to mention, it isn't until much later that I even found such a path. I have played and finished the game, you know. When you come out of Goodsprings, you're generally on the east side though, so going north from there takes you directly North. That path is around the back of Goodsprings, or so it feels, but no one ever mentions. Everyone says going north is dangerous so go to Primm. I set out prepared to fight radscorpions and cazadores. I avoided the quarry. I still got caught in a fight with a bunch of deathclaws.

So yeah, there's a path north, around the back. It doesn't take away from the fact that the game is basically shoving you down the southern route.

http://localhostr.com/file/smtR1pK/1314223462525.gif

[Osterbaum]

The worst you get this way is Cazadores, and your basic weapons can handle them even at level 1.
I don't know, I have trouble with cazadores even at higher levels.

[BloodyMage]

http://localhostr.com/file/smtR1pK/1314223462525.gif

That is how I feel...

[Kim]

I don't know why you guys are arguing with someone whose opinion is literally, "I should be able to go whereever I want from word go and if the game puts any actual obstacles in my way that make this a challenge then it is a terrible game."

This is just the sort of argument you should not be taking seriously enough to debate.

[BitVyper]

I don't know why you guys are arguing with someone whose opinion is literally, "I should be able to go whereever I want from word go and if the game puts any actual obstacles in my way that make this a challenge then it is a terrible game."

The Deathclaws aren't a challenge. They're an invisible wall around that entire area. That'd be fine if this were Final Fantasy or Dragon Warrior, but it's not. Should you be able to go blazing through there with a pistol and some heavy metal playing at level 1? Of course not, but making it so that area of the map is effectively a place the player just cannot go until his power level is over nine thousand kinda ruins it. Especially when NV also threw up an actual invisible wall over ANOTHER big chunk of the overworld.

It doesn't totally ruin the game, but it's definitely a flaw.

[Osterbaum]

I think it's pretty reasonable to suspect that the whole area was made that way to stop players from taking that route.

e: I kinda feel this whole argument is a bit dumb silly, 'cause while it might not be solely a question of differing opinions the fact that people felt differently about the game design of NW is to an extent a question of taste.

[Toastburner B]

I was going to state an unpopular opinion, but it has nothing to do with Fallout, so I feel as though this might be wrong place for it.

The 1998 Godzilla movie isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be. It is actually pretty solid outside of the actress who plays the love interest.

[Osterbaum]

Screw Fallout, that's my unpopular opinion.

[BloodyMage]

The fallout section of this thread is just about done with anyway.

[Kerensky287]

My uncommon (though I don't know if I'd say unpopular) opinion is that watching Nuka Break is better than playing Fallout 3.

[BloodyMage]

Nuka Break is awesome.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Ultimate Fallout was totally better than any Fallout games.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

The movie is better than the book.

[Nique]

The movie is better than the book.

I'll see you, and raise 'The movie was better than the video game'.

[walkertexasdruid]

Lady Gaga kind of looks like what would happen if Madonna and Marlyn Manson had a baby. I am strangely attracted to her though........

I never played the Fallout games, but I love Dragon Age.

Final Fantasy X-2 was a fun game that had a deeper storyline than many would believe.

Dragon Ball GT had its flaws, but it was better than most people believed it was. (Baby-infected Vegetta vs. Super Sayen 4 Goku was really cool)

[BloodyMage]

The Baby saga would never have happened had the original concept of the Black Dragonball quest across the universe hadn't flopped so completely that the realised they had to go back to what Dragonball Z was really about: Huge, prologued fights between Goku and an enemy that requires a new level/technique to defeat.

[walkertexasdruid]

All six Star Wars movies were good. Yes there were some annoying parts (Jar Jar Binks chief among them), but I enjoyed them all.

Star Trek is wonderful (Enterprise could have been better).