Why do people like Link shorteners?

[Fifthfiend]

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/534/windwaker.jpg

Because Wind Waker owns that's why

[Fifthfiend]

http://goo.gl/rLB1l

[Aldurin]

Because the thought of Link growing up chronologically would reminds players of their own mortality.

And a short mute with a happy smile on his face helps you sell shit big time.

[Fifthfiend]

Hahaha sorry about your soda Grimps.

[Grimpond]

It was worth it.

[Magus]

Wind Waker is my favorite Zelda game. I think it is the best one, in fact.

[Krylo]

Wind Waker is the second worst Zelda game.

Legend of Zelda < Wind Waker < Twilight Princess < Adventures of Link < Link to the Past < Ocarina of Time < Majora's Mask.*

It'd rate under the original game if not for 'haha burn random bushes to find dungeon' and the fact that the cel shaded graphics were pretty ace.

*Portable systems not included because I've only played Link's Awakening out of those, but that was also way better than Wind Waker.

[Krylo]

It would be the best if they'd let me stab King Hyrule at the end, though.

[Magus]

Wind Waker is the second worst Zelda game.

Legend of Zelda < Wind Waker < Twilight Princess < Adventures of Link < Link to the Past < Ocarina of Time < Majora's Mask.*

It'd rate under the original game if not for 'haha burn random bushes to find dungeon' and the fact that the cel shaded graphics were pretty ace.

*Portable systems not included because I've only played Link's Awakening out of those, but that was also way better than Wind Waker.

PISTOLS AT DAWN.

[Krylo]

Could we reschedule for like... three in the afternoon? Dawn's a little early for me.

[Magus]

Could we reschedule for like... three in the afternoon? Dawn's a little early for me.

Well, alright but we have to make this quick, my kids have a Little League game at four.

[Krylo]

I wouldn't worry about it.

[Marc v4.0]

Wind Waker is the second worst Zelda game.

Well, you have the second worst Zelda-related Opinion, so grain of salt and such

[Krylo]

Well, you have the second worst Zelda-related Opinion, so grain of salt and such

So 3:30 then?

[Magus]

Krylo it's going to take us at least 45 minutes for one of us to concuss the other. You can't be double-booking this stuff.

Unless you were thinking about using bullets like some kind of BARBARIAN.

Real gentlemen pistolwhip each other to death.

[The Kneumatic Pnight]

Legend of Zelda < Wind Waker < Twilight Princess < Adventures of Link < Link to the Past < Ocarina of Time < Majora's Mask.*

What color is the sky in this crazy-ass universe where Link to the Past is superior to The Adventure of Link?
I also couldn't really get into Ocarina of Time.

[Krylo]

What color is the sky in this crazy-ass universe where Link to the Past is superior to The Adventure of Link?

I'll admit those were the two I was having the most trouble placing. At the end of the day I think I got a few more hours out of and had a little more fun with LttP, however. Though Adventures was a better gaming experience, that made me feel more accomplished with every step of the way.

I accept disagreement in their ordering, however, without argument.

Edit: Also it's totally possible to get the gold sword three dungeons into the dark world and that just makes the rest of the game pretty lulzy.

[Magus]

Adventure of Link < Majora's Mask < Twilight Princess < Legend of Zelda < Link to the Past < Ocarina of Time < Wind Waker

[Krylo]

I'm pretty sure that ordering is in order from hardest (at the 'worst' end) to easiest (at the better end).

Magus, are you bad at video games?

[Magus]

No, my favorite game for about two years was Contra: Shattered Soldier.

EDIT: How is Twilight Princess hard? It was certainly easier than Ocarina of Time which at least had a good final boss fight.

[synkr0nized]

whoa

Folks liked Windwaker?

[Krylo]

But seriously, though, how is the first game so high? It had some absolutely terrible gameplay decisions. Like the repeating maze with no hints in game of how to get through it, or the one dungeon that was behind a bush that the game didn't tell you where to find and also you could only light one bush on fire per room...

Etc. etc.

I just do not get how it would rate that high.

Adventures isn't for everyone for the same reason like... Demon Souls isn't for everyone. It's ridiculously unapologetically difficult, but it's very rewarding when you manage to defeat it. Even if it does kinda kick you in the balls by making your reward the ability to play through it again.

And Majora's Mask is pretty dark for a Zelda game, and weird, and I can see not liking that one. Twilight Princess was just... I dunno. Kinda bland I guess. Too big and empty I think was the main problem, but I really have trouble putting my finger on exactly what I didn't like about it (other than Link/Midna being ruined at the end).

So I get why they wouldn't be liked but none of them are as bad as the original in terrible gameplay decisions.

And as for Wind Waker, I just can't see where it was actually fun to play? Like, it was really pretty to look at, but combat was pretty much impossible to lose unless you actively tried to, and sailing from island to island generally involved pointing the boat to an island then not playing for like ten minutes? And King Hyrule being a massive dick.

So I just have a hard time seeing what people see in that one beyond it being like... super pretty and having the best Ganon, I guess.

Edit: I played Twilight Princess on the Wii, and I guess it was 'hard' because any technique that involved the shield was almost impossible. I don't remember OoT having much real difficulty at all either, though. Especially not the last boss.

[Magus]

You played it wrong. You gotta explore and get off the beaten track as you play. Do things out of order. Shanghai pirates and divebomb them from towers using the Deku leaf. Get into naval battles. Find half the Triforce pieces before the fifth dungeon. Get all the heart pieces as you go instead of looking at GameFAQs during the last hour of the game and doing a scavenger hunt. Fight those giant octorocks with the boomerang to get one of the bottles. Screw around in your little villa that you find on that one island.

I hated Wind Waker too the first time I played it. The reason: I used a borrowed strategy guide, did everything linearly. About two or three years later I replayed it without a strategy guide, couldn't remember half the stuff in there and decided I was going to play a game the way it was actually meant to be played, without all the tips and tricks off the internet. I loved it. That game is wonderful.

As for the original, I guess I just have good memories of playing it as a kid and figuring out all the secrets with my siblings and my friends at school. Plus it was about as nonlinear as you could get and I remember always beating Dungeon 8 almost immediately with the candle and bombs and figuring out entirely on my own that with one well-placed bomb you could defeat that dungeon's boss in one hit.

But yeah I can see the problems and I guess it would be farther down the list if you look at it objectively. But Wind Waker I've played so recently and enjoyed so much that I really do think it is number one, or number two (NO POOP PUNS PLEASE).

[synkr0nized]

But Wind Waker I've played so recently and enjoyed so much that I really do think it is number one, or number two (NO POOP PUNS PLEASE).

Well, shit.

[Krylo]

You played it wrong. You gotta explore and get off the beaten track as you play. Do things out of order. Shanghai pirates and divebomb them from towers using the Deku leaf.

But the boat/bomb aiming controls obnoxiously and there's little reason to stop on any given square after you've explored it once, but you still have to sail over them like ten more times. Annnnd there's a lot more open water that has nothing at all of value in it than there is that has stuff in it, so floating over the entire map looking for stuff is just bleeeeeeeh.

Also: I never use strategy guides.

[synkr0nized]

Also: I never use strategy guides.

I am with you here, except I have the SMB:3 one from Nintendo Power. That thing was awesome.

[Magus]

Every square has at least one island on it with something to do in it, as well as things like giant Octorocks that come out of giant whirlpools and stuff, or submarines to explore, caves, boat racing, that big fortress you have to blast your way into, defeating Ganon's armada headed by the golden pirate ship, etc.

Also I enjoyed the fighting with cannons and using the boat, learning how to tack so you don't have to keep changing the wind direction in the middle of battle, going around and digging up the treasure chests with the grappling hook...I dunno, there's just so much to do that when people say there was nothing to do I have the feeling they just went where the boat told you to go until they arrived at the end of the game. Maybe they didn't like the optional stuff you could do, of course, but there was definitely stuff to do.

I too try to avoid strategy guides now, simply because of how much fun I had with this game. The only time I use a strategy guide is if I'm really stuck on something (usually due to the game designer being dumb).

[The Kneumatic Pnight]

the first time I played it. [. . .] I used a borrowed strategy guide
.
Magus, are you bad at video games?

[Krylo]

Yeah but a square is however large and there's only like one or two things to do in a square.

So let's say you play the game like I did for the first... I dunno, two or three dungeons? Something like that. Where you go to each square, explore it completely and then move on. I think I explored basically all the water I could before the first confrontation with Ganon

Okay, well now you're a) going through a lot of empty water because the game has you back track through the same squares a lot, and b) have spent a lot of time finding the one or two things per area. Many of which are pretty underwhelming. Like, you run into exactly the same underground area multiple times to the point where I didn't even care what was in a square again 'cause it's gonna drop me in that same circular room and either throw enemies at me which provide no challenge or give me a really simplistic block puzzle. AGAIN.

And to compound on it nothing in the water could catch your boat, and nothing you could kill on the water dropped anything worth getting so the only reason to stop and fight is if they were in your way.

There was no actual danger while sailing, which led to me just doing the, yeah, gonna point it at the next island and fuck off thing after awhile.

I mean, all that extra stuff coulda been cool had they put more time in it and made each area actually rewarding by giving me decent little dungeons to explore (like the one sunken ship place was cool) or giving me items that were worthwhile more often or whatever.

But as it stands I would rather go without anything up to and including a full heart container than go through another one of the same cookie cutter underground room again.

[Magus]

@Kneumatic Pnight: lol Yeah because everybody finds all the heart containers without a strategy guide...

Oh wait I found all of them in Wind Waker without one. In fact I think it was the first Zelda that actually made the way you get every single one interesting (or just stupidly easy) enough to bother doing it.

Like I spent about 30 minutes beating that stupid Yeti the second or third time, whatever it was, in Twilight Princess to get the heart piece (1/5 hearts instead of 1/4 hearts, that really excited the shit out of me), because bob sled riding was very important in the rest of the game and I'm glad I spent all that time doing that.

I used strategy guides to find all the hidden obscure secrets in RPGs and stuff, not because I am bad at manipulating my characters in jumping through obstacles or defeating bosses, which is not really something a strategy guide can help you with. Adventure of Link is a platforming game, no strategy guide is really going to help you beat it if you are bad at the action portions of video games.

But they will help you figure out that to get Lulu's Ultra Weapon in FFX you have to dodge 200 lightning strikes, and you will then proceed not to do that because it is a total waste of time and makes an already boring game even more boring (though I guess it did give you a reason to go somewhere other than forward on that path you were on the entire 40 hours).

I'm just confused by how saying I played the game with a strategy guide and ticked off everything in its little checklist in order (by the way, the strategy guide doesn't even have you visit about a fourth of the squares, so I didn't know that you could for instance do that boat race minigame and get like 500 rupees all at once, talk about a time saver which the strategy guide NEVER MENTIONED) means I'm bad at video games, when the rest of the post was about how I never use strategy guides anymore for the last 8 years or whatever it's been since Wind Waker came out, nor did I imply I used it to beat the bosses or something which seems rather pointless in a puzzle game where the entire point of the game is figuring out the puzzles and in which the bosses are pretty easy all told.

@Krylo: Well I didn't see it that way but different strokes for different folks I guess. Either you like what is there or you don't, it seems.

[Krylo]

I liked the Sledding.

It was fun.

[akaSM]

Link's Awakening was awesome, and all of you should feel bad for not mentioning it.

[Krylo]

I totally mentioned it.

In tiny text.

[Kim]

I have little opinion on Wind Waker until I replay it, except to say I can totally get Krylo not liking it because FUCK the Triforce collection quest.

Adventure of Link is awesome.

Zelda 1 is a piece of shit in every way.

Link to the Past is pretty good.

Link's Awakening is baller as hell.

Majora's Mask is fuckawesomehellsyeah.

Ocarina of Time is pretty damn great for being the first 3D Zelda.

FUCK Twilight Princess.

[Magus]

I loved Link's Awakening, I played it every day on the bus for a long time, I just felt there was no reason to introduce it into discussion since it seemed focused on the consoles...

EDIT:

I have little opinion on Wind Waker until I replay it, except to say I can totally get Krylo not liking it because FUCK the Triforce collection quest.

Adventure of Link is awesome.

Zelda 1 is a piece of shit in every way.

Link to the Past is pretty good.

Link's Awakening is baller as hell.

Majora's Mask is fuckawesomehellsyeah.

Ocarina of Time is pretty damn great for being the first 3D Zelda.

FUCK Twilight Princess.

Well in Wind Waker you can get the Triforce pieces as you go, I liked going and looking for them as soon as I found the maps. I thought it was cool that they'd be inside those reefs and you had to fight other ships to get to them.

Zelda 1 being a piece of shit in every way is a pretty strong opinion which I have little hope of altering. Same with Twilight Princess.

Ocarina of Time is pretty damn great for multiple reasons, the least of which is being the first 3D Zelda. Cool dungeons, enemies, characters, bosses, music, puzzles...it had it all. Keep in mind we've all played it twenty times each. Pretend you're somebody playing it for the first time. It's still pretty damn awesome.

Also I'd like to point out that I love Majora's Mask. Just because I put it way down on my list doesn't mean I don't love it. I don't think I've really disliked a Zelda game. Even Adventure of Link was fun for its time, though I don't know if I can bother getting myself to beat it again today.

[IHateMakingNames]

Adventure of Link < Legend of Zelda < Twilight Princess < Link to the Past < Wind Waker < Ocarina of Time <<< Majora's Mask

<<< to signify how more I like Majora's Mask over the rest of the games.

Portable games rank around Link to the Past if they were included.

But seriously I think Majora's Mask gave me a mask fetish.

[akaSM]

Nope, this is about Link shortening. The GB Link definitely looks shorter than his previous sprite (ALttP...methinks)

Link's Awakening is baller as hell.

:raise:

[Magus]

Well on that note I'd like to say that Minish Cap is straight gangsta.

[Marc v4.0]

The implication that WW's combat was any easier then OoT, MM, or TP is mockable at best. None of the 3D Zelda games were difficult at all compared to previous titles.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Legend of Zelda< Adventure< ALttP< Ocarina< Majora< Windwaker< Twilight
Because Herbert Spencer is my god.

[Archbio]

The Rest < A Link to The Past.

Fact.

[Magus]

The implication that WW's combat was any easier then OoT, MM, or TP is mockable at best. None of the 3D Zelda games were difficult at all compared to previous titles.

Marc, are you really attacking the assertion that liking Windwaker means you are bad at videogames? Next you will be attacking the argument that using a strategy guide one time means you are bad at videogames!

[synkr0nized]

The Rest < A Link to The Past.

Fact.

I more or less agree, as it's because of this game that Link's Awakening, another one I love, is so awesome, having basically ported that gameplay to the GB.

But Ocarina was a lot of fun to me, as well, and brought us 3D, for whatever that may be worth to anyone.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

The Rest < A Link to The Past.

Fact.

I have to agree with this. The GBA port was just awesome.

Havn't played Ocarina of Time much dispite owning the remake on GCN. WW couldn't hold my attention after playing for a few days.

I did love Ocarina of Seasons and I am disgusted that I may have lost that game. :argh:

I have never beaten a Zelda game and I feel kind of sad about that. :(

[TDK]

I have never beaten a Zelda game

HOW.


Edit: Right, topic.

Zelda<Wind Waker<Link's Awakening<Ocarina of Time=Majora's Mask=ish Twilight Princess<Link to the Past

[CelesJessa]

Well on that note I'd like to say that Minish Cap is straight gangsta.

I'm not quite hip on your gangsta lingo but I'm glad someone brought Minish Cap up. I loved that game.

Also I enjoyed Windwaker too. Actually my list is pretty similar to IHMN's but throw in Minish Cap, Links Awakening, and Oracle of Seasons in there between Twilight Princess and LTTP. Oh and swap LTTP and WW. Well, I guess LttP, MM, and OoT are all pretty much tied for my love.

[Arhra]

I loved Wind Waker but there needed to be more of it. The volcano and the ice maze should totally have been full dungeons. Jabu-Jabu as well. I mean, he just gives you the pearl?!

Fighting was very easy but very enjoyable. Flipping around with those action commands against things like the Darknuts felt epic.

And yeah, best Ganon.

Deifnitely needed better sailing controls though. As in letting you do stuff and move at the same time. And maybe being able to change the wind direction with just the analog stick instead of having to whip out the song every time.

And either less sailing or more stuff to do while sailing around. I mean, I did everything. I poked around on islands, salvaged things, raided the guard towers and the moblin submarines, possessing seagulls with fruit and so on. There was a lot of good stuff, but yeah, looooooots of just sailing around.

[rpgdemon]

The Rest < A Link to The Past.

Fact.

Seriously, what's wrong with all you people? The 3D Zelda games were good, but really watered down and stuff, and all, "Well, let's make it easier!". Like, 3D Zelda games provide no where near as much challenge as the 2D ones did.

Plus ALttP had so much gameplay to it, the best world, and was incredibly well made.

[Marc v4.0]

Marc, are you really attacking the assertion that liking Windwaker means you are bad at videogames? Next you will be attacking the argument that using a strategy guide one time means you are bad at videogames!

I'll come right out and say it that if you thought WW was too easy, then you sucked at all the other 3D Zelda titles because that shit was never even challenging.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

HOW.


Edit: Right, topic.

Zelda<Wind Waker<Link's Awakening<Ocarina of Time=Majora's Mask=ish Twilight Princess<Link to the Past

Either I-
A. Lose it somehow.

B. It gets broken and/or my data gets wiped.
or
C. I get sidetracked by another game.

[greed]

2nd DS one<<<<<<<<<<<<<<1st DS one<<<<Zelda 1<<<Twilight Princess<<Okami(whatever it counts)<<<<<Oracles<<<<Wind Waker<<<Ocarina<<<Link's Awakening<<<<A Link to the Past<<<<<<<<Majora's Mask

I haven't played Minish or Zelda 2 for like 8 and 17 years respectively, so not gonna include them. I remember liking them though so they'd at least be above the DS games.

But yeah Majora's Mask is just amazing, great gameplay, amazing direction. First game to really make me sit up and pay attention to the writing and the world.

[Kim]

I think your greater than symbols are in the wrong direction, Greed.

[Magus]

I think your greater than symbols are in the wrong direction, Greed.

Shh, Spirit Tracks being number 1 is hilarious.

[Fifthfiend]

The implication that WW's combat was any easier then OoT, MM, or TP is mockable at best.

This, really.

The Rest < A Link to The Past.

Fact.

As well.

[Marc v4.0]

Damn Kids these days

[Fifthfiend]

So I just have a hard time seeing what people see in that one beyond it being like... super pretty and having the best Ganon, I guess.

Those are pretty much it really.

I guess also I'd add that a some of the islands themselves are really well-designed as far as world/dungeon maps go, and the deku leaf is pretty fun.

Aside from that I mean like, yeah, the ending was shit, but no more than like, 1.5 times as shitty as the ending to OOT, and the gameplay is just like, Three Dee Zelda Videogames Gameplay. Boomerang boomerang sword boomerang sword sword gather items.

I just like sailing the boat around. I'm an old-ass man, I don't wanna do things in a hurry.

[Marc v4.0]

I enjoyed the lighter tone, the whimsy, and the overall story. Ending was eh, but that was the best Ganon-smite I had seen in any game.

[Fifthfiend]

Yeah doesn't Zelda drop an arrow right through his skull or somesuch? I mean that's the kind of thing you wanna see.

[Marc v4.0]

No, he gets sword-in-the-stone'd

[Magus]

The grappling hook was also fun to use, even though you eventually get the hookshot...

[phil_]

My favorite Zelda is Okami, 'cause I got to draw a dick at one point and then it started showing up everywhere. It really made me feel like the time I spent getting the dick just right was well spent.

Wind Waker has the best Poes and Redead. Also, it is the prettiest until Skyward Sword comes out, assuming SS will have somewhere as calming as the entrance to the Deku Tree's grove. Oh, and best fairies, both great and standard.

I'm not sure if I'd like Zelda to revisit a system like Minish Cap's kinstones, but it was kinda neat tracking down what they did. Plus, shortest Link.

[Krylo]

The implication that WW's combat was any easier then OoT, MM, or TP is mockable at best. None of the 3D Zelda games were difficult at all compared to previous titles.

I'll come right out and say it that if you thought WW was too easy, then you sucked at all the other 3D Zelda titles because that shit was never even challenging.

I'll come right out and say it that if you thought WW was too easy, then you sucked at all the other 3D Zelda titles because that shit was never even challenging.

Was just gonna let it go, but just gonna say this:

Times I have died in WW = 0

Times I have died in every other Zelda game >= 1.

This includes the 'Just barely missed the tail of the puppet monster with the arrows and thought I had hit it and therefore hit it with every other weapon in my arsenal before trying again' thing.

PS:

LttP was hardcoreI just replayed LttP. I died like three times. Every single time was because I did something completely retarded. Like being in a hurry and forgetting/not noticing laser eyes on the walls or whatever ridiculous thing. I've done 0 death runs. Pretty sure my second run ever was that, actually. I still have the post-credits save with the little '0' by Link to signify that I had never died.

The only Legend of Zelda game that was ever difficult was Adventure of Link (and maybe one of the portables, haven't played those).

However, there's a difference between 'Easy' or 'not at all difficult/challenging' and 'So easy that it is impossible to die.'

Yeah doesn't Zelda drop an arrow right through his skull or somesuch? I mean that's the kind of thing you wanna see.

No, he gets sword-in-the-stone'd
Sword in the stoned right through his skull.

Too bad King Hyrule had to be a huge dick afterward so I couldn't even enjoy it.

Still maintaining that Wind Waker could gain enough points to be the best game if they'd just let me walk up and stab King Hyrule right in the family jewels at the end.

[Betty Elms]

I think people have only mentioned how gorgeous Wind Waker is like less than five times in this thread, which isn't enough, because holy shit that game is gorgeous.

[PyrosNine]

My thoughts on this subject is that WW was awesome in that it's world was immediately interesting and worth discovering despite the relative sparsity of game world, and that it was better at dropping Zelda nostalgia for OOT and co on the player because the wpr;d was that divorced from the classic Hyrule Overworld that all the little touches that referenced the previous games came off as charming, especially the staff credits which is one of the best Zelda medleys ever. Compared to TP, which more or less recreated OOT's world in HD Tolken-ness and wasn't even subtle in reintroducing OOT things to the player. (Oh hey! It's desert dungeon, just like the spirit temple! And we've got poes in it, just like the Forest Temple!)

That and my departed grampa let me ride around the Caribbean in a boat of the same type as the KoRL, and one of my favorite books was about a guy who used a similar boat to find sunken treasure. WW was essentially a decent sailboat simulator, and if you knew a bit about tacking and weaving, you could get to a lot of islands before you even learned how to control the wind!

The worst Zelda game is Tetra's Trackers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch0sX19PPZA), because they never (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5t7bVtJvdM) released it over here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usTS0RpA-OA).

[BitVyper]

I love Wind Waker. I love sailing around endlessly, and I love finding all the little islands and other things at sea.

Loved the art style too. It was pretty neat.

[Marc v4.0]

Times I have died in WW = 0

Times I have died in every other Zelda game >= 1.


I'll come right out and say it that if you thought WW was too easy, then you sucked at all the other 3D Zelda titles because that shit was never even challenging.

~

[Ecks]

I could've sworn this was another thread once... one I posted in.

That said, a Zelda Thread in General makes it to 7 pages without anyone bitching?

Majora's Mask, Game of the Year, All Years

I enjoyed the lighter tone, the whimsy, and the overall story. Ending was eh, but that was the best Ganon-smite I had seen in any game.

Twilight Princess was also a decent Ganon-smite. Stuck him right through the stomach so hard his Triforce stopped working, and he died standing up.

[Krylo]

~

Says the guy who thinks LttP was 'hardcore'.