Steve Jobs has died.

[Flarecobra]

CNN just announced that he died, literally not even an hour ago... I'm trying to find something online about it but there's nothing yet.


EDIT: Yahoo just put up a little blurb. (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Apple-says-company-cofounder-apf-2413458028.html?x=0) Apperentally it was pancratic cancer.

[Loyal]

I'd heard they were putting a new CEO to the task, but I had no idea the need was so urgent.

[Verifiedz]

whoa whoa whoa wait what

[Revising Ocelot]

http://www.apple.com/

I've already seen idiots proclaim he died before the 4S launch and they're using it to cover negative publicity on it. Fuck 'em.

[Nique]

Wow that's just...

I was never a big Apple fan but Steve Jobs has been like, this fixture. A pop star of consumer technology.

Also the man was like only, what, 56, right? Really unfortunate for anyone to go that young.

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

The cancer is a cover up. The real culprit is the turtleneck. Did him in with a candlestick in the library. Trufax.

Silliness aside, it'll be a peculiar time for Apple given how much of a driving force he was behind Apple. Much as I didn't care for the products I respect what the guy for what he has accomplished.

[Aldurin]

I feel guilty for shrugging this off easily since Apple products are my last choice period.

[Marc v4.0]

I feel guilty for shrugging this off easily since Apple products are my last choice period.

Well, good?

Dude wasn't products, he was a dude.

[Aldurin]

Well, good?

Dude wasn't products, he was a dude.

But I didn't even know the guy. Like literally all I knew is that he ran Apple.

[Bob The Mercenary]

GIVE US BACK OUR JOBS!

[Solid Snake]

I've already seen idiots proclaim he died before the 4S launch and they're using it to cover negative publicity on it. Fuck 'em.

That is the most fucking ridiculous conspiracy theory I've heard...
...Wait, no.
I've heard a worse one today, let alone this week.
Fuck, the interwebs is full of stupid conspiracy theories.

[mauve]

We'll miss you, Steve. I'm not really a huge Apple fan, but the brand just won't be the same without you and your turtleneck sweaters.

[Flarecobra]

But I didn't even know the guy. Like literally all I knew is that he ran Apple.

If it wasn't for Steve Jobs, we wouldn't have Pixar.

[Nique]

truuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuth

[Magus]

Not an Apple fan but I have to give props to the man for revitalizing a stagnant industry.

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

Cancer...TOOK OUR JEEERRRRBS!

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Wow it's sad to see him go. May he rest in peace.

Hopefully for apple, someone new of equal grace and passion will take his place.

[Fifthfiend]

I feel guilty for shrugging this off easily since Apple products are my last choice period.

Even if you don't like the specifics of a lot of what Apple's approach to doing business has been over the years, they've still been at the forefront of a lot of industry-level shifts which have largely been to the benefit of the consumer.

If it wasn't for Steve Jobs, we wouldn't have Pixar.

As well!

Oh man try and picture what the world of 3d animation looks like without Steve Jobs. Here I will tell you what it looks like: It looks like that one cartoon that floats around the internet of the one guy from Pixar coming up with all these crazy imaginative ideas, and that one guy from Dreamworks going HERE'S A BUNCH OF SMUG ANIMALS, except it is ONLY THE HALF OF THAT CARTOON WITH THE SMUG ANIMALS.

[Magus]

Even if you don't like the specifics of a lot of what Apple's approach to doing business has been over the years, they've still been at the forefront of a lot of industry-level shifts which have largely been to the benefit of the consumer.

Also, too, the Pixar.

Exactly, Microsoft's response to Apple spurred innovation on their own part, making the entire industry flourish.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Yeah, if it wasn't for apple and Steve Jobs, we wouldn't have smart phones so soon. :)

[Magus]

Yeah, if it weren't for the iPhone, we never would have gotten good smartphones so soon. Just look at what the iPad did for us, already other companies are creating good tablet computers in response!

[POS Industries]

It appears that everyone's favorite psychotic con artists at the Westboro Baptist Church will be picketing Mr. Jobs' funeral.

This news, of course, was tweeted from Margie Phelps' iPhone. (http://twitter.com/#!/MargieJPhelps/status/121733810231590912)

[Red Mage Black]

The irony of that is delicious. Then again, the Phelps' have always been deliciously ironic. I wonder if they ever did picket Heath Ledger's funeral.

On topic, I've never really been a fan of anything Apple. It isn't 'Microsoft Fanboy' hate, it's 'I've used their stuff and I don't like it' hate. How I had to monitor everything I did or the whole system crashed. Also, the policy for iTunes really aint that great. If you don't hook it up to the same computer or you don't hook in the iPod you were using, there goes all the music you paid a fortune for. Anti-Piracy measure, I do realize and I do have a long statement for that, but I won't clog up the topic.

Not sure if I sound like a monster when I say, "I won't miss him," but that's only because I never really cared about Apple or its products. Maybe it's just my higher familiarity with Microsoft stuff that makes it so.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I don't care about Apple because while they were innovating phones and things they were doing so with slave labour and taking all those classic 19th early 20th century tricks (if you want this job you have to live in our houses and pay exorbident rents! We're going to slowly poison you at your job then you have to pay money to our doctors to get it fix) and updating them for the 20th century.
Jobs probably didn't know about it though. So he's ok.

[Nique]

slave labour

what

[Professor Smarmiarty]

It's even on their Wikipedia page:
In 2006, the Mail on Sunday alleged that sweatshop conditions existed in factories in China, where the contract manufacturers, Foxconn and Inventec, operate the factories that produce the iPod.[41] The article stated that one iPod factory, for instance, had over 200,000 workers that lived and worked in the factory, with workers regularly doing more than 60 hours of labour per week. The article also reported that workers made around $100 per month and were required to live on the premises and pay for rent and food from the company. Living expenses (required to keep the job) generally took up a little over half of the worker's earnings. The article also said that workers were given buckets to wash their clothes.[42][43][44]

Immediately after the allegations, Apple launched an investigation and worked with their manufacturers to ensure that conditions were acceptable to Apple.[45] In 2007, Apple started yearly audits of all its suppliers regarding Worker's Rights, slowly raising standards and pruning suppliers that did not comply. Yearly progress reports have been published since 2008.[46] In 2010, workers in China planned to sue iPhone contractors over poisoning by a cleaner used to clean LCD screens. One worker claimed that they were not informed of possible occupational illnesses.[47]
[edit] Allegations of labor abuse in Chinese factories

During the international launch of the iPad news reports broke of about a dozen suicides over the past year at the manufacturer Foxconn's complex in Shenzhen, China,[48][49][50][51] where products from many manufacturers including Apple, Dell, HP, Nokia and Sony are produced. Apple together with Dell, HP, Nokia and Sony have pledged to investigate the suicides.[52][53]
[edit] Foxconn employee suicides

On July 16, 2009, Sun Danyong, a Chinese factory worker employed by Apple's manufacturing partner Foxconn, committed suicide after reporting he lost a prototype model for a fourth generation iPhone.[54][55] [56] Upon filing his report on July 13, Chinese media reported that his residence was searched by Foxconn employees, and that he was beaten and interrogated by his superiors, actions illegal under both Chinese and American law. The incident raised questions regarding Apple's secrecy policy and working conditions in their Chinese factories. An Apple spokesman told reporters that the company was "saddened by the tragic loss of this young employee."[57] Apple's relationship with Foxconn regarding corporate security has been a continuing subject of controversy since Sun Danyong's death.[58][59]

Apple states its policy on how it influences the corporate culture of its suppliers in its Supplier Responsibility Progress Reports.[60] Holding suppliers accountable for their errors and omissions in their relationship with Apple is an area of concern Apple reports itself as taking seriously, and in its latest report, Apple stated that "[our] procurement decisions take into account a facility’s social responsibility performance, along with factors such as quality, cost, and timely delivery. When social responsibility performance consistently fails to meet Apple expectations, we terminate business."[60] Apple has not announced whether it has severed business ties with Foxconn. Given Apple's stated policy, terminating relationships with such suppliers may be difficult without incurring huge financial losses.[61]

In 2009 and 2010, Foxconn factories supplying iPhones, iPads and other devices have still come under fire in the press, with one source describing conditions as a "white collar prison".[62] In 2009, Foxconn guards were videotaped beating employees.[55] Later in April 2010, four workers attempted suicide in a single month in the same factory.[63] By May 2010, 12 workers had attempted suicide at a Foxconn operations in China. Apple, HP, and others stated that they were investigating the situation.[54]

Though Wiki states they've been cleaning up since the expose, others have claimed they are still doing it, just hiding it better.
Like for example, they apparentely started cleaning up in 2007 but then in 2011
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/7330986/Apple-admits-using-child-labour.html

At least eleven 15-year-old children were discovered to be working last year in three factories which supply Apple.

The company did not name the offending factories, or say where they were based, but the majority of its goods are assembled in China.

Apple also has factories working for it in Taiwan, Singapore, the Philippines, Malaysia, Thailand, the Czech Republic and the United States.

Apple said the child workers are now no longer being used, or are no longer underage. "In each of the three facilities, we required a review of all employment records for the year as well as a complete analysis of the hiring process to clarify how underage people had been able to gain employment," Apple said, in an annual report on its suppliers.

Apple has been repeatedly criticised for using factories that abuse workers and where conditions are poor. Last week, it emerged that 62 workers at a factory that manufactures products for Apple and Nokia had been poisoned by n-hexane, a toxic chemical that can cause muscular degeneration and blur eyesight. Apple has not commented on the problems at the plant, which is run by Wintek, in the Chinese city of Suzhou.
A spokesman for Wintek said that "almost all" of the affected workers were back at work, but that some remained in hospital. Wintek said n-hexane was commonly used in the technology industry, and that problems had arisen because some areas of the factory were not ventilated properly.

Last year, an employee at Foxconn, the Taiwanese company that is one of Apple's biggest suppliers, committed suicide after being accused of stealing a prototype for the iPhone.

Sun Danyong, 25, was a university graduate working in the logistics department when the prototype went missing. An investigation revealed that the factory's security staff had beaten him, and he subsequently jumped to his death from the 12th floor of his apartment building.

Foxconn runs a number of super-factories in the south of China, some of which employ as many as 300,000 workers and form self-contained cities, complete with banks, post offices and basketball courts.

It has been accused, however, of treating its employees extremely harshly. China Labor Watch, a New York-based NGO, accused Foxconn of having an "inhumane and militant" management, which neglects basic human rights. Foxconn's management were not available for comment.

In its report, Apple revealed the sweatshop conditions inside the factories it uses. Apple admitted that at least 55 of the 102 factories that produce its goods were ignoring Apple's rule that staff cannot work more than 60 hours a week.

The technology company's own guidelines are already in breach of China's widely-ignored labour law, which sets out a maximum 49-hour week for workers.

Apple also said that one of its factories had repeatedly falsified its records in order to conceal the fact that it was using child labour and working its staff endlessly.

"When we investigated, we uncovered records and conducted worker interviews that revealed excessive working hours and seven days of continuous work," Apple said, adding that it had terminated all contracts with the factory.

Only 65 per cent of the factories were paying their staff the correct wages and benefits, and Apple found 24 factories where workers had not even been paid China's minimum wage of around 800 yuan (Pounds76) a month.

Meanwhile, only 61 per cent of Apple's suppliers were following regulations to prevent injuries in the workplace and a mere 57 per cent had the correct environmental permits to operate.

The high environmental cost of Apple's products was revealed when three factories were discovered to be shipping hazardous waste to unqualified disposal companies.

Apple said it had required the factories to "perform immediate inspections of their wastewater discharge systems" and hire an independent environmental consultant to prevent future violations.

However, Apple has not stopped using the factories.

In 2008, Apple found that a total of 25 child workers had been employed to build iPods, iPhones and its range of computers.

and like there are quite a lot of these stories floating around.

[TDK]

:dance:

[akaSM]

Yeah, if it weren't for the iPhone, we never would have gotten good smartphones so soon. Just look at what the iPad did for us, already other companies are creating good tablet computers in response!

He made people in the US discover that smartphones can actually be nice to use, in other parts of the world, especially Europe, they've been popular for quite some time. But yeah, he made tablets (either those that are like small computers or large phones) popular. Except it seems Apple likes to use other tablet makers for using their, apparently patented, minimalistic rectangle shape so, fuck them.

He did some good and some bad things but, certainly, he didn't invent touchscreen phones the world wouldn't have been the same without him.

[Meister]

:dance:
Yo Apple criticism is totally fine but let's avoid stuff that goes into "I'm glad this person died" territory.

[Sifright]

I dunno, Meister Apple has a bloody terrible track record for alot of shit like workers rights and there is no way the CEO wasn't aware of those kind of conditions I know in the company I work for (tech company as well) The CEO has and does visit said factories where our shit is made/assembled. There is no way he wasn't aware about what was going on so at the very least he's morally reprehensible.

[Meister]

I completely agree but c'mon, basic decency. Like at least instead of just a dance emote do a little writeup on Apple's darker sides, lord knows there's no shortage.

Like the way they made closed information infrastructure under the control of one body an acceptable thing.

[Nique]

Not that Smarty's wiki-post wasn't thought provoking and basically guilt inducing for anyone owning Apple products, but I think it's ridiculous to think that even the CEO of as huge a company as Apple would be aware of the specific activities of all of it's appendages.

Like, it's totally wrong and way more sad than the death of one (very prolific even) man, but that doesn't make him personally responsible for those things or for existing within a broken system and it doesn't mean he didn't try to stop it. It doesn't mean that he did either but the point is that basically its kind of messed up to even jokingly celebrate someone's death.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Not that Smarty's wiki-post wasn't thought provoking and basically guilt inducing for anyone owning Apple products, but I think it's ridiculous to think that even the CEO of as huge a company as Apple would be aware of the specific activities of all of it's appendages.

Like, it's totally wrong and way more sad than the death of one (very prolific even) man, but that doesn't make him personally responsible for those things or for existing within a broken system and it doesn't mean he didn't try to stop it. It doesn't mean that he did either but the point is that basically its kind of messed up to even jokingly celebrate someone's death.


After a certain point there should have been a moral and logical zenith at which Steve Jobs as CEO should have stamped his foot down and said "That's fucking it Foxconn is bullshitting us over and over and we're not gonna take it anymore."

There's alternatives for production, but for whatever reason apple and all these other companies keep going back to the same production centers knowing full well what they're capable of.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I'm like 90% positive the reason is they are cheaper than people who like follow standards and shit.

[Azisien]

Wait, there are electronics manufactured legitimately? Anywhere???

[Nique]

After a certain point there should have been a moral and logical zenith at which Steve Jobs as CEO should have stamped his foot down and said "That's fucking it Foxconn is bullshitting us over and over and we're not gonna take it anymore."

You know what I'm pretty much not ok with being spoken to like I don't think this should be the case.

Like, what, I say that it's objectively terribly to celebrate someone's death so that means I'm soft-balling inhumane working conditions?

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

You know what I'm pretty much not ok with being spoken to like I don't think this should be the case.

Like, what, I say that it's objectively terribly to celebrate someone's death so that means I'm soft-balling inhumane working conditions?

It wasn't really directed at the latter part, just
I think it's ridiculous to think that even the CEO of as huge a company as Apple would be aware of the specific activities of all of it's appendages.

Because the thing is A CEO doesn't have to be aware of specific activities, just that time and time again Foxconn has enslaved abused and destroyed the lives of its workers and shown nearly no intent to change those habits.

[Aerozord]

well part of the issue is China, its hard to enforce standards from the other side of the planet.

Though you need to remember human psychology. Most people are very passive. I mean you say Apple has horrible business practices but how many of you still buy their products. Even apply that to population in general. We complain about shipping jobs overseas and slave labor, but would complain alot more if the cost of our products went up 10 or 20 percent

what makes you think a CEO, whose job would be endangered by making such changes, would be any more pro-active

[Sifright]

Never bought a single apple product.

Also, It would be as much of an issue if tech goods didn't have +300% markup on their goods.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

well part of the issue is China, its hard to enforce standards from the other side of the planet.

Nobody has to step over to China and physically force every company to stop these practices, they just need to...uh, I dunno? Stop using those companies?
I mean you'd think there'd be plenty of other production methods they could make use of. Hell, right here in America with all the abandoned factories and unemployed workers you could get some shit going. But, nope. It's slave labor or bust.

[Aerozord]

Never bought a single apple product.
good man

Also, It would be as much of an issue if tech goods didn't have +300% markup on their goods.
They are economies of scale, there is actually a valid reason for this. Tech industry has very high development costs but low manufacturing costs. They rely on that large profit margin to make up for the initial investment. Though Macs I know do overcharge by alot. Not so sure about iPod.
Nobody has to step over to China and physically force every company to stop these practices, they just need to stop using the production companies that are using those practices.

I know its nuanced but China is communist nation. The production company is China itself. You wont get better anywhere else. Unless you mean the manufacturer that outsources it to begin with, but then you are back to the "they aren't actually there" issue.

Now if you mean stop outsourcing to third world nations period. I do agree that would do it, but as I said before US citizen would rather have cheap goods made by slave labor, then expensive goods made by morally upright companies.

[Sifright]

Alot of the apple products are mostly cheap systems on a chip designs, as expense go there isn't all that much to the development costs, bare in mind they aren't doing shit like intel or amd which truly is expensive as they pioneering new manufactuing process for increasingly harder to get working size reductions. I imagine most of their budget for these goods is blown on marketing.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

I know its nuanced but China is communist nation.


Hah.
Haaaaaaaah.
The Chinese Government hasn't owned the means of production since... like, the 1980s or late 70s.

[Aerozord]

Alot of the apple products are mostly cheap systems on a chip designs, as expense go there isn't all that much to the development costs, bare in mind they aren't doing shit like intel or amd which truly is expensive as they pioneering new manufactuing process for increasingly harder to get working size reductions. I imagine most of their budget for these goods is blown on marketing.

I was talking about tech over all. I do not have the information to know if what you say is accurate or not, but it would not surprise me. Though to be fair apple did get some awesome marketing for the iPod. At this point now its kind of unneeded. iPod and its derivatives are simply the name brand now.

Hard to say how justified all of their cost is. But fact of the matter is if they stopped manufacturing this way they'd lose alot of money. Frankly they have no motivation to change. In fact under US law if Apple made such a move its shareholders have the right to sue Apple because a corporation is legally required to do all it can to maximize profits.

Only way Apple will stop doing this, is if enough people stop buying their products under protest of their immoral actions to make it the smarter move to stop using slave labor

[Marc v4.0]

Christ.

Start another damn thread or something, have and show a little decency.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Christ.

Start another damn thread or something, have and show a little decency.

What exactly would we call that thread?
"The thread where people that like Apple shouldn't go because we're going to be talking about how many people live and die in deplorable conditions as a direct result of their business practices" ?

I mean by decency what you really mean is respect for the dead. But just because Steve Jobs made great phones and might not have been directly responsible for these deaths doesn't really mean that we should forget he ever had a part in it. Rather, I think that's an even greater show of disrespect to the multitude of lives lost. That you feel discussing their deplorable conditions and continuing suffering is somehow an insult to a dead man who, while I don't believe was ever fully responsible, could have damn sure easily done more to prevent it.

Edit: Besides which I'm pretty sure somebody said Apple criticism was okay as long as we weren't dancing for joy over his grave. Which I'm not. It's sad to see him go, but that's not going to prevent me from acknowledging that not all the man did was good.

[TDK]

Is expressing an opinion bad now?

I genuinely don't understand what rule I was violating by implying I was glad he's dead. Though it is very possible I need to reread the rules. I've been going on "don't be an asshole to any forumites, spam, etc." for a while.

Side note: I'm not like jumping for joy, the dance emote was hyperbole. I don't really care that he's dead. I was just indicating that I think he was a terrible person. Bad person being dead is generally considered a good thing, is it not? Hitler, Hussein, Osama, etc? Perhaps in poor taste, but I wasn't aware poor taste was against the rules.


On topic: I think not doing everything in his power to stop the use of slave labor by HIS company makes Steve Jobs morally reprehensible, yes. On an unrelated note, Apple's products are overpriced bullshit.

Edit for below: What, we should be Super Nice to someone just because they died? Dying doesn't make you not a dick.

[Fifthfiend]

I mean by decency what you really mean is respect for the dead.

and that would just be awful

NPF: We Literally Cannot Comprehend The Difference Between Criticizing Someone And Criticizing Someone The Day After Their Death In A Conversation Regarding Their Death.

So what if I said I'm glad Hitler was dead

NPF: We Literally Cannot Comprehend The Difference Between Steve Jobs and Hitler.

[TDK]

Because killing horribly (or allowing to be killed horribly by YOUR COMPANY) thousands of people makes you a much better person than if it is millions. Disregard for human life is disregard for human life.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Well to be fair, I don't understand the whole "respect for the dead" shit. They're dead, they don't give a shit.
Like you could possiby do it out of respect of their relatives but I'm pretty sure Steve Job's wife isn't in here.

But I mean dying doesn't get you a super special magical pass out of criticism.
And like yeah this perhaps isn't the best thread but if you're talking about Job's legacy inhis death thread you have to bring up both the bad and the good. If you're going to bring up the good, you gotta mentio the bad.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

NPF: We Literally Cannot Comprehend The Difference Between Criticizing Someone And Criticizing Someone The Day After Their Death In A Conversation Regarding Their Death.



I...guess I can't?
Is what he did now not valid? Did the people suffering stop suffering?
Or...no, I guess not.

So, please. Explain it to me. This scale of human morality that makes Steve Job's complicity in suffering and death an untouchable subject. How long should I wait before I start up this new thread Marc suggested? A week? A month? Cause if I'm to be frank Steve will still be dead and people will probably still be in the same conditions they are now. So what's the difference?

[Aerozord]

NPF: We Literally Cannot Comprehend The Difference Between Steve Jobs and Hitler.

Come now Fifth, we all know that all CEOs are Hitler clones put into power by SUPER HITLER so he can secretively funnel all that money into his underground baby death fights.

Its common knowledge, all smartphones are powered by the souls of forsaken children. Why do you think they are all made in third world countries

[Sifright]

Well I don't know about Iphones but was always suspicious of the odd ominious noises that come from Galaxy tab, with Aerozords explanation it all makes sense.

[Nique]

EDIT: Nope. 'Eff it.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

EDIT: Nope. 'Eff it.

Wouldn't it be better to just delete the post then?

[Meister]

Bad person being dead is generally considered a good thing, is it not? Hitler, Hussein, Osama, etc?
Yeah if you live in an action movie.

[Magus]

Steve Jobs wasn't Hitler. Steve Jobs wasn't Carnegie. Steve Jobs wasn't even motherfucking Koch Brothers or something.

I mean for multibillion dollar corporate conglomerates Apple is probably one of the least evil. They're like even less evil than Levi or Nike or something. At least we can presume most of the Chinese workers are adults as opposed to small children harvesting cotton in Afghani fields or Caribbean children getting their hands caught in sewing machines as they stitch together sneakers or whatever the fuck is going on with most clothing companies.

[Seil]

When did it move from "That's horrible!" to "They're not the most evil."

[Magus]

When they made a billion dollars.

I literally don't think it's possible to make a billion dollars and not fuck over someone somewhere, even tangentially.

Like I don't think Stephen King is a billionaire but if he were we'd have to keep in mind that they cut down half the rainforest to sell enough books for him to become a billionaire. And the people doing the cutting were probably child slaves or something.

And so billionaires are classed by "least evil" and as such Steve Jobs was probably one of the least evil. Like didn't him and Bill Gates try to outdo each other giving money to AIDS and cancer research and so on?

FYI Bill Gates is probably more evil than Steve Jobs on the scale of evil (even though I prefer Microsoft products).

EDIT: BTW what I said about the child cotton pickers, I can guarantee you that if you ever bought an "organic" cotton shirt or pair of jeans there's about a 97% chance the cotton was harvested by child slaves somewhere, probably Pakistan.

[BitVyper]

But I mean dying doesn't get you a super special magical pass out of criticism.

Dancing gifs are criticism the way Westboro Baptist picketing a funeral is criticism.

[Magus]

Ironically Mrs. Phelps tweeted about how happy she was to hear about Steve Jobs dying and going to hell. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/under-god/post/westboro-baptist-church-uses-iphone-to-announce-steve-jobs-funeral-protest/2011/10/06/gIQAJqBjPL_blog.html)

The tweet was from her iPhone no less.

When the irony of the fact that she tweeted it from her iPhone was pointed out, she pointed out that "that's what God invented them for" (i.e. iPhones), declaring for the 3339930th time that she is insane.

Yes this involved an announcement that Westboro will indeed picket his funeral.

[Nique]

Wouldn't it be better to just delete the post then?

'I'm frustrated at how ridiculous the conversation is becoming. As it's pointless to try to reach an understanding with people who are being disingenuous, I'm out.'

Better?

[greed]

When they made a billion dollars.

I literally don't think it's possible to make a billion dollars and not fuck over someone somewhere, even tangentially.

Like I don't think Stephen King is a billionaire but if he were we'd have to keep in mind that they cut down half the rainforest to sell enough books for him to become a billionaire. And the people doing the cutting were probably child slaves or something.

And so billionaires are classed by "least evil" and as such Steve Jobs was probably one of the least evil. Like didn't him and Bill Gates try to outdo each other giving money to AIDS and cancer research and so on?

FYI Bill Gates is probably more evil than Steve Jobs on the scale of evil (even though I prefer Microsoft products).

EDIT: BTW what I said about the child cotton pickers, I can guarantee you that if you ever bought an "organic" cotton shirt or pair of jeans there's about a 97% chance the cotton was harvested by child slaves somewhere, probably Pakistan.

Billionaire are still people. Just really lucky ones who were willing to do horrible things to people for their own benefit. That's no reason to judge them any differently than other people. They don't have to be billionaires, they chose to be that greedy and ambitious and that apathetic about human suffering.

[Nique]

They don't have to be billionaires, they chose to be that greedy and ambitious and that apathetic about human suffering.

A simple Google search, even about Steve Jobs specifically, reveals that this is not a simple issue of people being rich and evil.

Steve Jobs and Philanthropy on HuffPo (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/07/the-history-of-steve-jobs_n_998325.html), Deal Book, (http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/08/29/the-mystery-of-steve-jobss-public-giving/) and noted philanthropist/ musician Bono's defense of Jobs' apparent lack of public donations on Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-02/u2-s-bono-defends-jobs-after-criticism-about-his-philanthropy.html).

At at least one point in his life, Steve Jobs attempted to incorporate philanthropic causes into Apple in an official capacity though it never really panned out. It is considered odd for such a prolific billionaire to lack a public record of charitable giving, however Jobs was noted for maintaining an unusual level of privacy about personal matters and his family life. It has been speculated that Jobs may have donated anonymously to charities.

So harping on human rights/ workers rights issues here is preaching to the choir, (even though it is an issue worth talking about at length in a different capacity). Furthermore, doing so with an angle on Job's personal culpability and implied apathy of such issues without really knowing the circumstances of his personal life is in extraordinarily bad taste.

Pretending not to understand that at least some of what's going on in this thread violates pretty commonly accepted principals of decorum while at the same time making sweeping accusations about one individual's personal culpability in what amounts to slave labor is disingenuous to say the least.

That's no reason to judge them any differently than other people.

That's right. And first-world consumers are also responsible, on at least some level, for supporting deplorable working conditions. And... you know this is just off the top of my head so if it's not an air tight analogy I apologize, but no one made happy-dance smileys when large populations of such consumers are killed, let's say, like when Japan was hit by a tsunami.

Edit: One more thing. Let's me be clear that I think it would be equally insincere and ridiculous to venerate Jobs and speak only good of him until some arbitrarily determined point after his death and I don't think that it is wrong to incorporate details about Apple's history, even the sordid parts, into a conversation about Steve Jobs' death. But there's a way to do so with respect and sympathy for the fact that an untimely death for anyone is sad, that his death directly effects a lot of people, and that he was a man like any other who did good and bad things but probably tried to be basically pretty good and didn't want to die.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Wait, Bono is a philanthropist now? The same Bono who is guilty of massive tax evasion whih is crippling to the world's poor. You don't want him defending you.

[Fifthfiend]

Come now Fifth, we all know that all CEOs are Hitler clones put into power by SUPER HITLER so he can secretively funnel all that money into his underground baby death fights.

Its common knowledge, all smartphones are powered by the souls of forsaken children. Why do you think they are all made in third world countries

I mean the really hilarious thing is this notion that I am somehow taking it too easy on corporate CEOs. Like I am practically a literal living cartoon of a corporation-hating hippie who wants to burn down society so we can turn the world into a 6 billion member anarchist commune.

I mean on the scale of people being evil Steve Jobs wasn't even Reagan, and I found it in me to say something halfway nice about fucking Reagan (the thread is around somewhere you can look it up for realsies).

We had the entirety of people's lives to criticize them, and will have the entirety of human civilization that comes after their lives to criticize them, it really can't be that hard to actually sit down and think about the reasons why you take a little while right after someone dies to not be dropping harsh-ass truth bombs cause you're too REAL for us, MANNN.

[Fifthfiend]

Okay no I can't lie anymore I just love rich people.

4:20 white knight dead billionaires every day.

[Fifthfiend]

If you don't love Steve it's because you just didn't KNOW him the way I did.

[Nique]

Our iHero

roflcopters and lollerskates

[Marc v4.0]

We had the entirety of people's lives to criticize them, and will have the entirety of human civilization that comes after their lives to criticize them, it really can't be that hard to actually sit down and think about the reasons why you take a little while right after someone dies to not be dropping harsh-ass truth bombs cause you're too REAL for us, MANNN.

^

[Professor Smarmiarty]

If you don't love Steve it's because you just didn't KNOW him the way I did.

Steve borrowed $20 from me once and never paid it back. What a cunt.

But like I've sat down and thought about it as you are asked me to and still don't have a good reason for not criticisng them the day after they die. Maybe I'm being dense here so explain it to me. Cause he's dead, what does he care? And there is a reason for criticising apple right now rather than in say a months.
The way I see it, people have been criticising apple for years but nobody has really paid attention to it, you have all this excess interest at the moment, you have the attention of peope who otherwise wouldn't pay attention- why don't you use that attention to maybe raise people's awareness to what is going on. When Steve Jobs dies islike the only time people are going to care about the inside world of Apple so by saying that is the one time you can't criticise Jobs and Apple you are inherentely defending their practices.

[Aerozord]

you know I will give him credit for one thing. He could have cashed out and just relaxed for his last years on earth, but instead kept working, and frankly working alot harder then most CEOs up until he literally couldn't anymore. Regardless of how good his products actually were, he atleast seemed to believe what he was saying. People dont typically work that hard to push products they dont care about

[Fifthfiend]

Steve Jobs: The Einstein of computers

Probably some people would say that Einstein was the Einstein of computers

But those people are probably all Micro$oft

[Nique]

Oh you bastard

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Without Steve Jobs we would still think computers ran off trapped satanic ghosts.

[Nique]

Cause he's dead, what does he care? And there is a reason for criticising apple right now rather than in say a months.

See, I thought the idea was not so much 'don't say anything bad about him or his company' but more like 'don't be a dick about it' for reasons I already spent a lot of time editing.

[Fifthfiend]

Oh you bastard

Why don't you fly off back to your Redmond mothership, BORG.

I'll be over here, y'know

thinking

different

[Aerozord]

Micro$oft

This doesn't make sense to me, how is microsoft the money grubbing one when apple charges several hundred dollars more for the exact same product.

[Nique]

different

AURGH! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koxYZRqGlnY#t=0m5s)

[Fifthfiend]

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/8490/leonardoself.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/leonardoself.jpg/) + http://mos.futurenet.com/techradar/classifications/gadgets/phones/mobile-phones/iPhone/iphone4_2up_front_side-420-90.jpg = http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/7910/stevejobs1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/708/stevejobs1.jpg/)???

[Meister]

Does the iPhone screen follow you through the room I DON'T THINK SO

[Fifthfiend]

It follows you through the door, out of the house, down the block!

IN YOUR POCKET

BEAT THAT, LEO-NERD-O

[Nique]

"Duhh I'm Leonardo, I don't the mass of the higgs boson. I have to draw in pencil, cause I don't how how to use rendering software"

[Fifthfiend]

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/7746/iphone4whitefrontbacksi.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/849/iphone4whitefrontbacksi.jpg/)

[BitVyper]

Cause he's dead, what does he care?

What do you care about? 'Cause even if we're going to pretend that showing some respect for the recently deceased hasn't been an important part of basically every human culture ever, if what you care about is making legitimate criticisms, and having real discussions with some objectivity, I can tell you with quite a bit of certainty that a thread specifically about the fact that the man just died is not the time or place. Even in the best case scenario, any criticisms you make are going to sound like you're happy someone died.

That said, the only thing I see in this thread (I'll admit I could have missed something) that's really gotten any backlash over him just being dead was TDK's dancing gif, which I'm just gonna come right out and say was ridiculously obvious trolling (if comparing it to Westboro Baptist's funeral picketings didn't make my opinion obvious already). Otherwise it seems like people have been pretty civil.

[Magus]

I would like to repeat again that this is not even an analogy in the case of Westboro Baptist Church themselves, as they are straight up going to picket his funeral.

I would also like to look at the statement that "God invented the iPhone" as put forward by Mrs. Phelps.

Insofar as God created the heavens and the earth, and that God invented the materials the iPhone is made of, and that God created man, and God gave him his near limitless intelligence and creativity, and that God created the immortal soul of Steve Jobs that inhabited the earthly body created for Steve Jobs by God, and that God may indeed have even given Steve Jobs the inspiration for the iPhone via divine inspiration, the statement "God invented the iPhone" still makes no logical sense if you really think about it for three freaking seconds.