NPF sucks!

[Solid Snake]

Okay, lemme go into "Serious Mode" for a moment, all joshin' aside.

I...really don't see leaving from (or returning to) NPF as such a big deal?

I've been away from the forums for countless several month long intervals and I've experienced weeks and even months when I've genuinely believed I had left NPF for good and would "never come back." I think it's only natural in the course of one's experiences in a community -- any community of friends, in real life or on the interwebs -- to experience moments when you're just "out of sync" with the group, and to, alternatively, experience moments where you're totally in the zone.

...Like, I've had stretches on NPF where I've been incredibly active to the point where everyone seemed to expect Snake's participation and where Snake was on everyone's tongues, but I've also totally had long droughts where I've lurked or never even showed up here for months on end. Sometimes those droughts were due to just sheer busyness. Sometimes I was just irrationally angry about something someone on NPF did and my boycott was a manifestation of that anger. Most recently, for a personal example that combines both elements, you can point to my short-lived Mafia inspired boycott, which was elongated further by a natural disappearing act in December due to fall semester exams.

...But, I guess my point is: I'm not really sure why people just naturally deciding to leave NPF merits a referendum on the community itself? I mean, it seems like RPG and RMB and Ryong are more or less just having a natural "out of sync" period, so they're going to show up less and lurk more or whatever else that means, and that's fine.

But it seems irrational to expect a community, which matures and undergoes gradual metamorphosis just as individuals do, to adhere to one's personal standards, which also evolve and change over time. In other words: NPF changes, and you change too: Your interests may eventually diverge from NPF's. Or, you may find a new group of friends, IRL or on another website (this happened to me to some extent in 2005-07) who totally supplant NPF as your go-to hangout crew. Or, you may find yourself maturing into someone who desires to converse or interact in a different way than the community at NPF seems to gravitate towards or appreciate.

...But that's not a fault of NPF; it's not a reason to point fingers at NPF and insinuate that it's the problem. (I was dead wrong when I pulled a similar stunt in Mafia, by the way.) That's silly thinking. Leave or stay if you'd like, to the best of my knowledge NPF isn't a closed-doors kind of place and everyone's totally invited to hang, as my own continued existence seems to suggest, but if your problem is everything I've just described, the solution is generally to just walk away from NPF for a few weeks / months / whatever and see if you eventually find yourself yearning to stop by again, and show up if you do.

* This message is just the feelings of Solid Snake and in no way represent how the "NPF Community" as a whole feels about such matters because Snake doesn't represent jack shit.

** Also, if your problem is less with the NPF community at large and more with a single user, like fuck that Snake and his hammy melodramatic bullshit or fuck (insert your least favorite user here), I'd recommend contacting the Mods and/or the asshole user in question before embarking on an exodus. I can't speak for anyone else, but personally my paranoia-induced, self-obsessed fear is often that I'm the culprit for the ill feelings, and if that's actually the case, the solution is not for multiple users to leave on my own sorry-ass account, but rather for me to leave and everyone else to stay. (If your problem is not with me but with another person, replace my name with his and it's still a similar message.)

EDIT: Shit, Fenris Mod-ninja'd me there. Still leaving this up because I wasted too much time typing it to want to delete it.
(Yes, this took me over twelve minutes to write.)

[Aldurin]

Oh god blocks of text. We should just start a thread now. Make Snake's post the OP.

[Solid Snake]

Oh god blocks of text. We should just start a thread now. Make Snake's post the OP.

Man, why is it that everyone responds to my posts with the old "Wall of Text" cracks?
...I don't quite get it. I mean granted I have a personal advantage in that I wrote the text so it's easier for me to skim through it, but I reread everything I just wrote in less than twenty seconds, I seriously can't imagine anyone losing massive amounts of time reading even the longest of my rants.

I'm not saying that you don't have the right to skip it, but couldn't you skip reading the Walls of Snake Text without trying to make Snake feel like an idiotic ass by deliberately mentioning that you're avoiding the text because it's such a huge burden on you or something? You can avoid the Walls without, you know, mocking them or anything.

ITT: Oversensitive Snake is Oversensitive (but should at least accrue a few brownie points for becoming more self-aware of his irrational over-sensitivity)

[Nique]

I love that your reply to his joke was an additional two paragraphs. Please tell me that was intentional.

[Solid Snake]

I love that your reply to his joke was an additional two paragraphs. Please tell me that was intentional.

I think at one point or another you're all going to realize that Snake responding with Walls isn't actually so much Snake deliberately attempting to antagonize anyone and more so just the way Snake interacts with people generally, like my longwindness is a personality trait no different from Fifthfiend's jesting snarkiness or Bob the Merc's adorable naivete or Invisible Queen's multiple personalities.

Like this isn't me trying to write walls? This is who I am, and it's manifested itself in terms of the career I'm pursuing and the way I interact with friends. Gather any IRL friend of Snake of mine and ask him "What is Snake like?" And he'll say something like "Quiet around strangers, but if you know him really well and you bring up a serious subject of discussion he won't shut up, he just rants and raves and takes ten sentences to express what I can express in two words."

...You see, even when attempting to play the theoretical role of one of my friends I'm still writing his dialogue all longwinded! It's just how I naturally am.

...It actually takes more effort from me to keep things short, like if a Mod was ever like "Snake you can still post on NPF but you can only ever post up to one sentence of content," hot fuck would be I be in deep shit. Seriously, I am being 100% sincere in that I've actually wasted more time and effort deliberating my short one-sentence quips than my long rants. Walls of Text come to me naturally, trying to be succinct like some of you can be is a real challenge to me.

[Kim]

I feel like I've let everyone down by failing to fulfill my contractual 'asshole duties' lately.

...Don't worry, everyone! There will inevitably come a time where I can find an excuse to blow something out of proportion and throw a hissy fit again!
I haven't forgotten you!!!

That was not what I had in mind when you said asshole duties.

[Krylo]

Man, why is it that everyone responds to my posts with the old "Wall of Text" cracks?
...I don't quite get it. I mean granted I have a personal advantage in that I wrote the text so it's easier for me to skim through it, but I reread everything I just wrote in less than twenty seconds, I seriously can't imagine anyone losing massive amounts of time reading even the longest of my rants.

I'm not saying that you don't have the right to skip it, but couldn't you skip reading the Walls of Snake Text without trying to make Snake feel like an idiotic ass by deliberately mentioning that you're avoiding the text because it's such a huge burden on you or something? You can avoid the Walls without, you know, mocking them or anything.

ITT: Oversensitive Snake is Oversensitive (but should at least accrue a few brownie points for becoming more self-aware of his irrational over-sensitivity)TL;DR

Walls of Text come to me naturally, trying to be succinct like some of you can be is a real challenge to me.[/SIZE]
I used to be the same way, now I am the opposite.

Edit: Some day all of my social interactions will be handled with a single well chosen word.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Everyone is bitching about NPF and how dumb it is and going to leave to have a sweet wank in googleville. Here is the thread to do it in.
However I think the problem is because I'm currentely away and everyone is missing my sweet lyrical bombasticness. Do not fear. I will return soon.

[Arcanum]

Edit: Some day all of my social interactions will be handled with a single well chosen word.

Agreed.

[Premmy]

Tomorrow.

[Geminex]

DICKS

[Osterbaum]

Who is bitching about NPF?

[Ryong]

Look at the public announcement thread.

If we're moving stuff from there to here:

REAL LIFE FLANDERIZATION ALL UP IN THIS BITCH.

"Oh but that's not how people are, you're stupid!" except that's totally what it looks like on these forums.

And the thing is, chances are that if I try to convince someone about something I'm right, they won't agree with me simply because they're better than me because they have more rep gems or more posts or are just inherently better than me and above my flawed point of view.

If I'm the one with a problem, not NPF, then why am I not the only one feeling like this?

[Japan]

Everyone thinks they are so totally hot right now, but they are not.

I guess.

[Osterbaum]

I'm hot always.

[Japan]

Three well placed words.

RAGING HATE BONER

[Nikose Tyris]

What I find odd is that all the people who quit eventually come back. Even the people we tell to leave.

[Japan]

What you guys need is a convenient scapegoat. Preferably one that isn't too bright and is overly confrontational.

Or maybe just like, a real live goat.

[Premmy]

boomerangs

[Osterbaum]

Can't stay away from NPF. It's like a drug. Or maybe more like smoking.

[Geminex]

What you guys need is a convenient scapegoat. Preferably one that isn't too bright and is overly confrontational.
So, is this the bit where we nominate people? Cause I have a freaking list.

[Japan]

I nominate this guys I used to work with. He was totally using his girlfriend for money while he cheated on her with her boss while she was asleep in the same room. Then he bragged about it at work.

[Japan]

I actually quit smoking a few months ago.

[batgirl]

I have to agree with Ryong. I've been on the forums here for years, even before they were these forums, and I've seen it evolve over time. People do get into niches and characters (I'm guilty, my only shtick is that I'm the medic), and I almost think they feel obligated to post that way. Invariably someone will make some stupid post about dicks or something that will derail a thread into nothing. I've come to expect it over time, come to think of it I'd say we have 2 more pages or less in this thread now that I've mentioned it.

I used to be much more active here, running rps, posting, etc. I've pretty much become a somewhat lurker due to my work. I see a topic I like in the morning and think, "I'm going to comment when I get home." By the time I get home and have a nice comment all thought up, the thread has degenerated into nothingness involving smugness and/or other "comedic" posts. I get it, we all have our "thing," but sometimes it ruins threads. It makes me not want to comment.

I understand why it was done, but this is a reason why I miss the Discussion portion of the forum. We could have serious(er) conversations that went on for more than a few pages with less fear of the snark or the jokes.

People feel the need to have their own niches here, I get that too. It makes them more interesting and brings more attention to them. When I joined here I was just another high school student like everyone else. Nothing all that overly defining. I posted here like any Joe Shmo and enjoyed myself. But now, I'm a paramedic, I save lives, and people think I'm awesome for doing so. People respond directly to me about me, it brings attention to me. And if that's the case, why not continue like it? Why not have the attention? It's the same thing with many people here. We all want the attention on us. Snarky comments or things that we deem funny will bring the attention towards us like aggro. So why not build your entire forum persona around it?

TL;DR I agree with Ryong. If we need a scapegoat I nominate SMB because I don't like him. Also, IVs, intubations, bitchy nurses! Be my friend!

[Osterbaum]

The forum is all that and more, and that's the way I like it. It's not perfect like that, but it's great and I have fun here. Not sure what more I could ask for, all of my serious and respectable political discussions I prefer having IRL anyways.

e: fartz and butz

e2: also dicks

[Osterbaum]

And you'll start again in a few years in all likelihood. That's how it works.

E: It's also pretty common that every once in a while someone will come out saying how the forum has changed and what's wrong with it, and how things used to be different. Change is quite inevitable and there will always be people remembering the good ol' days.

[Fenris]

Thread split from PA Thread

[Red Mage Black]

As I said in the PA thread, I also agreed with Ryong and rpg. Though I guess the saying, "You never leave high school," is a pretty accurate statement. As life becomes a big popularity contest and like marketing and politics, it's not always the quality of what you put out, but how you sell it*. I can't say that applies completely to NPF, as some of the stuff you find on NPF are awesome gems. The Sketch thread or just the Art thread in general. People perfecting their talents, despite to me, their stuff already looking gorgeous enough.

* I hate to use Liz as an example for something... AGAIN... so no offense to her. As people know, she can get pretty overzealous about something, but that's the type of thing I mean. Sometimes it isn't the topic of the post people might be interested in, but the way she says it. Looking for the reactive post.
Well, I don't think Liz should be only example, I think Fifth deserves a mention. Instead of looking for what he might think of the topic, people also might look for his 'hate' comments on the matter. What witty, yet hateful thing he might say towards whatever topic he posted in. The point of this is saying that the popularity also stems from either doing what they 'kind of sort of' expected from you or turning their minds around and posting something the complete opposite. (With no connection to the hipster cliche.)

Edit: I also realize that my example became longer than my overall post. As I said, I talk too much.

[Revising Ocelot]

Regarding the lack of the Serious Discussion forum, I believe that's what the http://www.nuklearforums.com/images/icons/serious.gif tag is for these days.
The problem is that it's frequently interchanged with http://www.nuklearforums.com/images/icons/lolitrollu.png due to looking similar and/or stupidity. Maybe the latter should be bright green?


As for NPF sucking in general, I think that directly correlates with my level of posting activity.

[Osterbaum]

The Pygmalion (or Rosenthal) effect. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenthal_effect)

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Indeed.

[shiney]

Oh hey, Funka's here. Hi Funka. Guess that's proof positive that some people can't stay away.

[shiney]

Also, I guess that maybe I could take some responsibility for the atmosphere that fosters here? But maybe also it's because some people insist on staking out positions in arguments and discussions that are thoroughly and soundly defeated through the power of facts and evidence, and then stubbornly refuse in any regard to admit perhaps that their positions are flawed or based on misinformation. And then continue on to rail against "the establishment" which drowns out dissenting opinions, instead of acknowledging that this very same establishment provides links, facts and info that run concurrent with the bias, such as it is, and disenfranchise not the opposition but the hollow and idiotic talking points that the opposition tends to promote as equally valid viewpoints.

Just saying.

It could simply be butthurt.

Maybe not anyone in this thread, or maybe so. But I do get sort of tired for people wandering into certain areas of the forum, getting their asses kicked in a debate, and then crying that everyone hates them because they're jerks and I quit.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

As much as I agree with the sentiments presented I think it would also help if, perhaps, rather than sighing and giving up you just persisted.
It's pretty obvious that there's plenty of people who also want a serious and reasonable discussion. If you all just do that, there's pretty much nothing that can stop you.



Oh hey, Funka's here. Hi Funka. Guess that's proof positive that some people can't stay away.

Wait, what?

EDIT: Also I too feel like I've been forced into a niche, people expect me to have a mustache, and say mustachy things... I cant' even play mafia anymore because people take one look at my mustache and assume I'm evil or something. But I can't shave the thing because I am Kareshwithamustache so who the fuck would I be if I didn't have a mustache?
I dunno... the whole thing just kinda makes me want to end it all. Pick up a razor blade and slash my mustache right the fuck off.

[Fenris]

But I can't shave the thing because I am Kareshwithamustache

Are you, now?

[Arcanum]

I think Japan is Funka's alt. Some minor sleuthing and half-remembered things makes me 60% sure of that.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Are you, now?

OH GOD

[Fenris]

I think Japan is Funka's alt. Some minor sleuthing and half-remembered things makes me 60% sure of that.

It is.

[Osterbaum]

Nah man, Japan is a country in Asia.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Funka's an entire country?

By the gods!

[pochercoaster]

Oh, it's that time of year again, where there's a thread about how NPF has changed for the worse and it's time to change it back so everyone talks about it and then nothing happens.

And the thing is, chances are that if I try to convince someone about something I'm right, they won't agree with me simply because they're better than me because they have more rep gems or more posts or are just inherently better than me and above my flawed point of view.

See, I never get this from NPF. Maybe my perspective is just skewed, but I don't really see people saying "I'm better and/or more right than you because I'm more popular." I do see people saying "I'm more right than you, because you believe Y and I believe X and yarga blarga bloopity." No one is obligated to change their opinion even if they're "wrong." They are only obligated to be courteous in discussion, and the mods decide what "courteous" means.

It amuses me that people complained about the old discussion forums for being too flamey (also awesome and fun!) so the mods changed the rules around a bit to make them more friendly and now people are complaining about the NEW discussion forums. Discussion will always involve some level of discomfort because it brings up topics people feel strongly about. You either just roll with the discomfort or avoid discussion. Or just lurk in discussion and eat popcorn on the sidelines.

Personally I want the discussion forums to become a colosseum where gladiators battle each other for the right to be "correct."

Polemical people will always be more popular. If you want to be popular you should start talking about how much you enjoy drowning babies and start threads defending the morality of it. If not, then just roll with being slightly less noticeable? I can't help but feel that this problem is artificial and inflated.

As for leaving the forums: I've vanished from NPF a few times due to being busy or just simply not enjoying it, but never made an announcement. I figure I might want to come back after a break, and if I don't return and someone is wondering about me they can always bother me on MSN.

Sometimes it feels like NPF just wants to create its own drama because otherwise it would be too good of a forum and violate all the rules of the internet.

Edit1: Also I was ninja'd by a bazillion people.

Edit2: Also this post was not solely directed at Ryong, obviously. I was gonna go back and pull out more quotes but LAZY.

Edit3: Also I guess we could just blame fifthfiend or shiney, those dastardly bastards! Y'know instead of admitting that the community of NPF is made up of more than five people and everyone contributes to it.

Edit4: Also can't help but feel this thread is a covert way of people saying "I don't like Liz and/or <insert other NPFer" here and not wanting to deal with the fact that some people are more opinionated than others. Which is really disappointing, can we all just play nicely?

[shiney]

I think we have another new forum description.

[Osterbaum]

Man, fuck Fifth and shiney and Liz and who else.

e: you guys should stop being so popular

[Loyal]

Also, I guess that maybe I could take some responsibility for the atmosphere that fosters here? But maybe also it's because some people insist on staking out positions in arguments and discussions that are thoroughly and soundly defeated through the power of facts and evidence, and then stubbornly refuse in any regard to admit perhaps that their positions are flawed or based on misinformation. And then continue on to rail against "the establishment" which drowns out dissenting opinions, instead of acknowledging that this very same establishment provides links, facts and info that run concurrent with the bias, such as it is, and disenfranchise not the opposition but the hollow and idiotic talking points that the opposition tends to promote as equally valid viewpoints.

Just saying.

It could simply be butthurt.

Maybe not anyone in this thread, or maybe so. But I do get sort of tired for people wandering into certain areas of the forum, getting their asses kicked in a debate, and then crying that everyone hates them because they're jerks and I quit. While this is true, another part of the problem, as I see it, is that when one side is right and the other side is wrong, those in the right tend to take it as a free pass to mock and/or belittle those in the wrong.

Or to be precise there's a certain number of folks who are fairly consistently in the right but tend to present their arguments in the most ingratiating/adversarial/ohgodwhatthehelliswrongwithyou manner possible. Sometimes it seems less like there's a point being argued and more like the discussion is just a thinly-veiled excuse to get our jollies at someone else's expense. Which as far as I can tell is, at least implicitly, supported by the staff at large.

I know for a fact some people avoid getting into discussions entirely because they don't feel like putting up with the usual, inevitable rebuttal. Which, I suppose, is something I have a problem with.

[pochercoaster]

You know, I don't want to ignore the other side of the problem, either, and my post probably came off as pretty one-sided. But I don't actually read the discussion forums much anymore, (purely out of laziness, not a feeling of being driven away from them) so like maybe there IS some shit that needs to be fixed but I couldn't say. Even so, "fixing" the discussion forums doesn't seem to be the original intent of this thread. I've just accepted that discussion will always be somewhat drama-y and then I remember it's just the internet and walk away.

I think we have another new forum description.

FINALLY some recognition!!!1!!!11!

[Seil]

tl;dr

[shiney]

Yeah I'll give you that. People should be less condescending in their arguments. But then we get into the debate of "what amount of snark is acceptable and what is against the rules" and I don't want my mods to have to get themselves involved in being the "acceptable tone" police as their job would never, ever end. It would be nice if some people could self-regulate. Sometimes myself included. But it would also be nice if some other people would think for themselves and do some independent analysis, check a wide variety of sources and then check who funds those sources...for an argument on NPF this isn't really feasible, this is hardly a scholarly forum, but if you are going to get into a debate or a big discussion about [x] and someone is going to beat you over the head with info then maybe you should check the veracity of your own statements??

tl;dr some haters just gonna hate, be it the arguers or the quit4lyfers. The internet pulls no punches though...

[shiney]

Oh and I have no intention of fixing discussion again. It's a beast of its own and I shouldn't be required to constantly protect people who can't handle it after the numerous adjustments we've tried to make. The best I can say is "thin skin? stay out"

[Fifthfiend]

Just gonna point a thing out rill quickstyle

Man, why is it that everyone responds to my posts with the old "Wall of Text" cracks?

This is the part that says what you are actually saying.

...I don't quite get it. I mean granted I have a personal advantage in that I wrote the text so it's easier for me to skim through it, but I reread everything I just wrote in less than twenty seconds, I seriously can't imagine anyone losing massive amounts of time reading even the longest of my rants.

I'm not saying that you don't have the right to skip it, but couldn't you skip reading the Walls of Snake Text without trying to make Snake feel like an idiotic ass by deliberately mentioning that you're avoiding the text because it's such a huge burden on you or something? You can avoid the Walls without, you know, mocking them or anything.

ITT: Oversensitive Snake is Oversensitive (but should at least accrue a few brownie points for becoming more self-aware of his irrational over-sensitivity)

This is the part that makes it a snakepost.

[pochercoaster]

Man discussion was fun when Lockeownzj00 posted.

Edit: Also Funka.

Edit2: Why can't we retroactively add post tags? I forgot to add the lolitrollu. :(

Tahredit: Just for you.

[Fifthfiend]

Side note: What is this thread even about?

[Fifthfiend]

Someone's going to say I should find that out by going through and READING it and my response to that is pretty much no, fuck you.

[pochercoaster]

It's about how popular people ruin NPF. GODDAMMIT FIFTH.

Fifth how do you even have nearly 19 thousand posts, that's insane.

[CelesJessa]

Wait, are we talking about niches and stuff. I wasn't ready. Ah... mansex? No that's not right... buttlove... ?No sorry guys I'm off of my game today.

Anyway, in all seriousishness, I'm pretty much in agreement with Pocheros.

Honestly, I've been around for a long time (almost 10 years oh god), and the forum has always evolved and changed, but I don't think it's any worse now than when we raided some other forum for a sexy party, or... I don't know drawing long comics based on NPF members (do people still do that? I'm a little behind on the times) Things just change and sometimes people's interests change, and sometimes they leave, with or without announcing it. And then the antelope eat the grass. It's all part of the circle of life.

That being said, I've never really participated too much in a lot of serious discussions so there might be issues there that I"m completely unaware of.

FAKEEDIT: Well dang it now my post is delayed and seems unnecessarily serious now. THANKS GUYS GEEZ.

[Fifthfiend]

It's about how popular people ruin NPF. GODDAMMIT FIFTH.

Fifth how do you even have nearly 19 thousand posts, that's insane.

Well,

[Fifthfiend]

for starters,

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Someone's going to say I should find that out by going through and READING it and my response to that is pretty much no, fuck you.

I'll help you out, this thread is about you.
Here are some things people are saying about you:

Fifth is basically the worst thing to happen to any forum in the universe and it just so happens that it landed on us and we've gotta deal with it.

Fifth once told my entire population to go find some tentacles to fuck.

If I weren't already dating somebody I would send Fifthfiend sexy pictures and we would go out for online dinners and live happily ever after.

[phil_]

I don't know drawing long comics based on NPF members (do people still do that? I'm a little behind on the times)I was just about to say that everything wrong with the forums is that we no longer have a steady flow of self-insert fantasy/adventure comics. How 'bout someone get on that, Arhra? Loyal?

[Premmy]

As always I'm forgotten and unloved for my bad jokes and general spazziness.
People want to complain about how people respond to them? You can take my deafening soul-crushing silence.

[Ryong]

If I were bitching solely at the discussion forum I would have pointed that out.

[Premmy]

Like I'm not even fucking here.

[Magus]

I'd say the current iteration of the forum has much more lax moderation, people tend to get banned much less often (or they just gave up trying to ban people every time they very specifically called another person a festering asshole, OR posts where someone calls someone else a festering asshole are very quickly followed by a post redacting said statement/apologizing, EXCEPT the original post could have just been edited so I'm not sure if the apology is just to prevent their banning or if it was due to the time lapse between the original post and the second post, or whatever, basically double posting just to apologize for calling someone a festering asshole seems pointless to me because the last post in the thread would still be yours if you just edited it and didn't call them a festering asshole, it's like you just wanted to call someone a festering asshole AND get away with it). Also topics generally go off-topic about half the time, but again, the mods probably just got tired of putting yellow "warning text" in telling people to get back on topic.

EDIT: Like the mods are Delita going "blame yourself or God!" except they are God and God is kind of lax on moderation BUT we could all be less terrible as well. Also Delita was clearly kidnapping that chick so I mean, it was kind of a hypocritical attitude all around.

[pochercoaster]

If I were bitching solely at the discussion forum I would have pointed that out.

I did get a little carried away talking about discussion but my points apply to all parts of the forum (and human interaction in general). People don't agree with you and some are more popular, oh well.

If there's a lack of FUN there's nothing preventing forumers from starting up RPs or whatever. I get my fun fix in chat most of the time, don't really care much for posting.

[Azisien]

I think for me NPF became less of a neat community to hang out at and more of a compulsion to check on the bookmark bar when the RP forums mostly died a handful of years ago. Now the only actually interesting and awesome thing here for me, Steam Nights, don't even happen on NPF.

It's all about the RP forums though. We need those fantastical escapisms to distract us from how humdrum NPF is!

[Aldurin]

*Fifthfiend insults*

Yo, shut yer pimp hole, this muthafucka brought us the glorious spiritual revival of Fiendcraft.

Ok, even then he's admittedly wavering in the hateful apathy range. But he brought us Fiendcraft so all* is forgiven.

*All is not actually forgiven, and everything you have ever been caught doing will still be held against you at any time without warning.

[Ryong]

Also, to be more clear:

If I were lashing out at specific people Pocheros, I'd have done so.

It'd have been a repeat of how I left the last forums I was in, where I bitched at nearly every one of the regulars because, hey, they're assholes. I clearly disagree with a lot of people here on a lot of things and that's just how it is, I know that. Still, it's just that basically this is not going to change anytime soon, it's the feeling I get.

[Gregness]

Like I'm not even fucking here.

It's really only after I started playing in the mafia threads that people began responding to me at all. And even then, I think it might only be out of necessity.

[Osterbaum]

People don't often respond to my posts directly either, but I just figure it's because I wasn't really saying anything wroth responding to for one reason or anoter.

[Steel Shadow]

Y'know the RP forums are still down there, folks. It's all still working. It doesn't have to be this way, we're still happy to work with you again! Just because we lost Toasty doesn't mean the rest of us don't try real hard, damnit! You can still come back!

I dunno, maybe the forum's getting to mellow now? I remember a lot more flamewars. If we had more of those, maybe we'd run people out instead of boring them, huh guys? Huh?

[Osterbaum]

I was never very good at RPing and besides it takes up a lot of time.

[Steel Shadow]

We can still make it work Oster! Then people'd have to pay attention to you.

[Magus]

I dunno, maybe the forum's getting to mellow now? I remember a lot more flamewars. If we had more of those, maybe we'd run people out instead of boring them, huh guys? Huh?

Well I for one consider many of the opinions expressed here to be rather trite. You are all entitled to these opinions, of course, but do not be dismayed if I were to disagree with them merely on the basis that I feel their veracity to be at least somewhat questionable to a degree.

[pochercoaster]

Also, to be more clear:

If I were lashing out at specific people Pocheros, I'd have done so.

It'd have been a repeat of how I left the last forums I was in, where I bitched at nearly every one of the regulars because, hey, they're assholes. I clearly disagree with a lot of people here on a lot of things and that's just how it is, I know that. Still, it's just that basically this is not going to change anytime soon, it's the feeling I get.

That part of my post wasn't directed at you. Most of my post wasn't, as noted in one of its edits.

[Amake]

What is my niche guys? Are you supposed to know what your niche is? It's scary to think people may have labels for me that I don't get.

[shiney]

Ryong I used the discussion forum because it is the best example. It is the highest concentration. The ideals expressed as unfortunate by those who are dissatisfied with the forum et al, can basically be summed up as, the kind of shenanigans that go on in the discussion forum and sometimes exist elsewhere in the forum.

So like...chill on the specifics and look for the underlying tone. That being "people are going to disagree, people have different methods of delivery, sometimes people are jerks, this may result ins ome members leaving but that is the unfortunate trade-off for not moderating each and every post that might hurt someone's feelings".

[Magus]

What is my niche guys? Are you supposed to know what your niche is? It's scary to think people may have labels for me that I don't get.

I've always labeled you as "guy who posts in aquamarine". This separates you from people like Synkronized who post in red.

[IHateMakingNames]

I'm not sure if being the MLP Mafia guy is an upgrade from being the guy with the most posts.

[Fifthfiend]

Whoops, I read the thread.

like me being the only one who like Chrono Cross

Nobody actually really seriously gives a shit.

And the thing is, chances are that if I try to convince someone about something I'm right, they won't agree with me simply because they're better than me because they have more rep gems or more posts or are just inherently better than me and above my flawed point of view.

Ryong, if people disagree with you, it's probably because they think different things than you do, and they think those things are correct.

[Solid Snake]

I love how the thread title insinuates that I believe something that I do not believe! =)


This is the part that makes it a snakepost.

What I don't get is why people don't love the snakeposts!
Snakeposts are awesome things!!!

EDIT: Also did I keep this short enough for you Fifth

[Fifthfiend]

That was throwing me too.

And then like from what I got out of your opening wordpile it seemed like you were saying the opposite of that, but I wasn't about to do the deep excavation needed to know for sure.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

This thread was heaps better when mine was the only post inn it. Cause fuck, I've figured out the problem with NPF. It's all you dudes going "words words words".

[Nikose Tyris]

iuF6CpML3IQ

Words, words, words?

[Fifthfiend]

I love how the thread title insinuates that I believe something that I do not believe! =)



What I don't get is why people don't love the snakeposts!
Snakeposts are awesome things!!!

EDIT: Also did I keep this short enough for y

character limit maximum reached

[Solid Snake]

character limit maximum reached

Oh no you guys!
Fifthfiend has a 185 character limit!
(Well, 230 characters with spaces.)

That means Fifthfiend can never write any message containing more than 185 characters!!!!

[Ryong]

Ryong, if people disagree with you, it's probably because they think different things than you do, and they think those things are correct.

Man, Poch's answer was much better, but, shit, I've had posts where I posted my opinion, provided the facts backing it up and got answered with pretty much "but you're wrong and my opinion is right because it's mine".

[Ryong]

Oh no you guys!
Fifthfiend has a 185 character limit!
(Well, 230 characters with spaces.)

That means Fifthfiend can never write any message containing more than 185 characters!!!!

That'd explaining the doubletriplemulti-posting.

[Solid Snake]

Man, Poch's answer was much better, but, shit, I've had posts where I posted my opinion, provided the facts backing it up and got answered with pretty much "but you're wrong and my opinion is right because it's mine".

I think this is all really the Republicans' fault.

...No, really! I actually do have a theory that puts all the blame for this on Republicans!!!

You see, I think Republicans in America have come up with such bullshit illogical arguments in "support" for their terrible, horrible, no-good positions that it's lessened the value of discourse itself. You see, the moment that leaders can effectively poison half the goddamn country into believing nonsensical bullshit is the moment that the other half of the country immediately becomes:

A: Incredibly skeptical of the ability of the majority of people they know to actually think independent rational thoughts;
B: Incredibly smug and self-satisfied with their opinion on all subjects, including those unrelated to politics, because it's easier to presume that the opposing side is actually hellbent on advocating positions with no connection whatsoever to reality;
C: This smug self-satisfaction only builds the longer said person is exposed to conservative racist sexist homophobic douches, therefore;
D: The effect eventually spills over into other subjects entirely, and suddenly liberals approach subjects related to favorite video games and sports with the same incredulous disbelief of the integrity of the opposing side's arguments as one legitimately holds against conservatives.

You see!! This is Rick Perry and Michelle Bachmann's faults!!!!

[Amake]

I've always labeled you as "guy who posts in aquamarine". This separates you from people like Synkronized who post in red. There were a few years when I didn't post in faded blueish green though. But still, comforting to think no one cares about you beyond the color of your s, err, text.

[Solid Snake]

I really should go back to pink text, then, shouldn't I?

Thanks for reminding me, Amake!!!

[Kim]

That anyone thinks anyone gives a flying monkeyfuck about rep gems always blows my mind. In fact, the only people who DO seem to care are the ones who think anyone else does.

[Solid Snake]

That anyone thinks anyone gives a flying monkeyfuck about rep gems always blows my mind. In fact, the only people who DO seem to care are the ones who think anyone else does.

But Liz
Liz
We have turned the dial up to eleven
Maybe twelve

EDIT: Whoops! Nearly forgot my new awesome pink text. Tragic!

[Kim]

TBH I almost asked for enough negative rep to take me back to zero once just for the fuck of it.

Also, it's clear that Magus thing about apologies was Not-So-Subtly directed at me, in which case I just wanna say that if you think I do anything I do just to avoid being banned, you have not been paying enough attention. Apologies are legit in intent and also because lots of people seemed to have it in their mind that I never do and would bitch at me about that. Of course, once I started making a habit of it, the new response, instead of, "Liz never fuckin' apologizes cuz she's a biiiiiiiiiiiitch," basically became, "Well, you shouldn't create the situations that make you need to apologize in the first place, so you're still a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiitch." Yes, indeed. But hindsight is 20/20 and all that jazz. I can't retroactively undo my fuckups. I do pay attention to my own posting history though, and I fuck up less than I used to and when I do fuck up it's less bad than I used to, most of the time.

Also: Ryong, I'd like you to point to a single example of someone literally going, "Nope! You're just wrong because. And I'm right. Forever," that was actually meant seriously.

[shiney]

New?

[Fenris]

As always I'm forgotten and unloved for my bad jokes and general spazziness.

tbh I mostly remember you for your bad taste in music.

While this is true, another part of the problem, as I see it, is that when one side is right and the other side is wrong, those in the right tend to take it as a free pass to mock and/or belittle those in the wrong.

.....Which as far as I can tell is, at least implicitly, supported by the staff at large.
You must have missed the months where I was pretty much constantly at war with Liz and then I realized that half of the reason that I viewed her posts as rage inducing insult-fests was because I went into the threads expecting rage inducing insult-fests.

So I stopped getting into spats with Liz and then all of the sudden Liz's posts didn't make me upset anymore and it was like whoa

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Fenris do you have any goddamn idea how hard it is to type out my username and password on my mobile phone while driving?

[Solid Snake]

Also: Ryong, I'd like you to point to a single example of someone literally going, "Nope! You're just wrong because. And I'm right. Forever," that was actually meant seriously.

Well it has happened before re: politics, but generally "Nope! You're just wrong because. And I'm right. Forever," is shorthand for a long-ass Wall of Text arguing in favor of rational, logical and compassionate respect and dignity for all human beings regardless of race, gender or sexual orientation.

It's just that when you're arguing against brainwashed people indoctrinated by Fox News into believing that their hatred is totally justified cuz eventually you reach a point where you're barely containing yourself from shouting a string of obscenities and you just thrust your hands up in defeat and say "You're wrong, I'm right, stop watching O'Reilly and listening to Glenn Beck, conversation over!"

(This totally happened recently with my own family.)

[Fenris]

Fenris do you have any goddamn idea how hard it is to type out my username and password on my mobile phone while driving?

get off the phone when you're driving you stupid fuck

[Nikose Tyris]

Fenris do you have any goddamn idea how hard it is to type out my username and password on my mobile phone while driving?

Protip: Stop trying to kill yourself, put down the phone while driving.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

get off the phone when you're driving you stupid fuck

Get off the internet while I'm driving you asshole.

[Kim]

tbh I mostly remember you for your bad taste in music.

Hey, man. Premmy got me listening to the Gorillaz. If that ain't a noble fuckin' cause, I don't know what is.

[Fenris]

Hey, man. Premmy got me listening to the Gorillaz. If that ain't a noble fuckin' cause, I don't know what is.

Okay yeah.

Stopped clock, twice a day, etc.? I mean I'm willing to chalk this one up to chance so I don't need to significantly adjust my world view.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

I guess I should be clear in that I'm not driving now. It was actually so hard I just caved in and quietly read the thread until I got home.

[Nikose Tyris]

Okay yeah.

Stopped clock, twice a day,

A clock running backwards at 10,000 RPM

[Solid Snake]

I think we now have an irrevocable argument in support of how great NPF is:
Karesh is so addicted to NPF that he is literally willing to RISK HIS LIFE to post here. Thread over!

...Like, the value of his own life is somehow less than the value of posting nonsensical bullshit on this webpage.

...Now I'm not sure whether I should use this as evidence to worship the awesomeness of NPF or evidence to pity Karesh.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

I think we now have an irrevocable argument against how great NPF is:
Karesh is so addicted to NPF that he is literally willing to RISK HIS LIFE to post here. Thread over!

...Like, the value of his own life is somehow less than the value of posting nonsensical bullshit on this webpage.

...Now I'm not sure whether I should use this as evidence to worship the awesomeness of NPF or evidence to pity Karesh.

After I lost Subway my life has no meaning.

[Kim]

Well it has happened before re: politics, but generally "Nope! You're just wrong because. And I'm right. Forever," is shorthand for a long-ass Wall of Text arguing in favor of rational, logical and compassionate respect and dignity for all human beings regardless of race, gender or sexual orientation.


Yeah, but I don't think Ryong's talking about this. Like, I think there was probably some incident where he said a game was good/bad, and someone was just like, "Nope," for the fun of it, except he read that as being completely serious.

Like, that is seriously the only thing I can imagine actually happening that would be a source of Ryong's post.

[Ryong]

I'm now going to proceed with the usual technique seem on NPF and completely ignore what I think portrays me in a bad light.

Moving on.

The first lesson here is that you can't change someone's opinion even if you back it up with facts if the person already doesn't like you.

The second lesson here is that, given enough time, the way you are currently doesn't matter because you've screwed up in the past and no one ever lives anything down OR you did a cool thing in the past and now you have to do things in the same way forever.

Edit: Like, shit, I could totally provide an example, but then if it was stupid I'd never live it down.

Edit2: Yeah, no, I pretty much never followed a religion and/or politics thread ever because it's based a lot on personal opinion and the "us vs them" way of thinking so no shit it's going to feature heavy-handed opinions like shit.

[Kim]

I'm not sure either of those lessons you're claiming have ever at all been shown to be the case in this thread, and I really gotta wonder where you're getting all this from. Also: "Back it up with facts"? I asked for facts so I'd have a better idea of what you're talking about. You did not provide.

[Solid Snake]

Yeah, but I don't think Ryong's talking about this. Like, I think there was probably some incident where he said a game was good/bad, and someone was just like, "Nope," for the fun of it, except he read that as being completely serious.

Like, that is seriously the only thing I can imagine actually happening that would be a source of Ryong's post.

I know I've done that before with a game like Chrono Cross, though the message is not actually "the game seriously sucks, if you like it you are a jackass" and moreso "this game really disappointed me, I'm irrationally bitter about how much it disappointed me, I mean yeah the game is objectively decent and there are worse games out there and mediocrity is not an appropriate sequel to one of the best RPGs ever, so this is really a joke about my Trigger fanboyism."

The only other games I remember bashing with such ferocity were the recent Sonic games, which, coincidentally, fit into the exact same nostalgic framework of "The games aren't really as bad as I'm making them out to be, my statement is moreso a reflection of my fanboyism of the Genesis-era 2D Sonic titles and how the new games are comparative disappointments and less a reflection of the actual quality of said new games."

Like when it comes to games that are actually objectively worthy of scorn, but that have no relation to prior products that I really enjoyed? I tend not to care enough to note how 'terrible' they are.

[Japan]

But uh, since everyone is obviously all ready sporting massive hate-wood can I have my old username back?

[Fenris]

But uh, since everyone is obviously all ready sporting massive hate-wood can I have my old username back?

Not even a little bit.

[Japan]

ok, just checking.

[Nikose Tyris]

It's subtle things that happen over time, and little callbacks/gutpunches to recent events, that I think he's referencing. Taken seperately and individually they feel harmless, but they build up into actual hurt feelings.

At least that's been my experience until I remembered the ignore feature. Then everything was great again.

[Kim]

I have no wood. None.

I will not be able to survive through the winter with this massive dearth of wood.

[Kim]

Not even a little bit.

Japunka

[McTahr]

Japunka

Japunk'd?

[shiney]

Bite me, K-Resh. You put lives in danger! Wear your shameful username until sufficient atonement has been unlocked.

[Red Mage Black]

I'm now going to proceed with the usual technique seem on NPF and completely ignore what I think portrays me in a bad light.

Moving on.

The first lesson here is that you can't change someone's opinion even if you back it up with facts if the person already doesn't like you.

The second lesson here is that, given enough time, the way you are currently doesn't matter because you've screwed up in the past and no one ever lives anything down OR you did a cool thing in the past and now you have to do things in the same way forever.

Edit: Like, shit, I could totally provide an example, but then if it was stupid I'd never live it down.
Well, the first 'lesson' goes in real life. If someone has a negative disposition of you, they're less likely to believe anything you say. Facts or none. Same goes with a whole community. If you've wronged them in the past and possibly on numerous occasions, then they have less reason to listen to what you say.

Second 'lesson', well I think that goes the same. Politics, entertainment, jobs you may get or in a career. People are more likely to remember the bad things you've done over the good things. Not always true if it was something small, but major fuckups live on. The second part? Well, I guess that works in Hollywood and is generally how typecasting works. Like: God forbid Will Sasso play anything but a fat goofy guy, am I right?

Not sure this is any helpful, but it was more meant to be informative.

[Kim]

Japunk'd?

J-Punk got the Funk.

[Ryong]

Yeah but, fuck, what's wrong with me thinking any of this would be different on the internet?

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

DAMMIT FENRIS


WAIT SHIT IT WAS SHINEY.

[Solid Snake]

It's subtle things that happen over time, and little callbacks/gutpunches to recent events, that I think he's referencing. Taken seperately and individually they feel harmless, but they build up into actual hurt feelings.


I will concede that I do personally dislike the whole "Snake was once a Drama Queen six months ago, therefore I will bring up Snake having been a Drama Queen then as an excuse to justify downplaying the argument he's attempting to seriously make now" thing. I saw that kind of logic train happen most against Liz, coincidentally, and I remember speaking out against it.

I'm not really sure it's an argument against NPF as a whole though. I mean the problem with NPF is the same as the problem with any other relatively tight-knit community, on the interwebs or in real life: the NPF forums are going to appeal to a lot of people, INCLUDING some people you just genuinely don't get along well with.

And you see, my big hurdle for a while recently was that I really genuinely believed that everyone on NPF HAD to like me, and if they didn't like me or value me as a "good friend" I had somehow completely failed as an individual? But life just doesn't work like that; in the real world, as you've noted, we do have the real-life version of the "Ignore" feature and we use it quite often with otherwise decent people who just happen to grate on us.

I do think NPF has sort of a confrontational issue where, due to the anonymous nature of the interwebs generally, people who'd otherwise just ignore you and discount you as "Not good friend material" feel more comfortable actively articulating their dissent in a way that feels offensive and unnecessary. Like, more people should basically say "I dislike this guy so I'll ignore him and move on" as opposed to "I dislike this guy so I'll throw a hissy fit about how stupid he is and try to convince everyone else to ostracize him." I can concede that.

But to sum up, NPF isn't going to be filled with only or exclusively the people on NPF that you like or respect, and you just need to filter out the people who piss you off and filter in the people you appreciate on your own prerogative.

[McTahr]

Bite me, K-Resh. You put lives in danger! Wear your shameful username until sufficient atonement has been unlocked.

Mustache: Collect the ten green gems of yore and forge them in the flames of Mount Discussion. [Locked achievement]

E- Oh god people are still trying to be serious in here.

[Solid Snake]

E- Oh god people are still trying to be serious in here.

(I am always the last person to catch the shifts in tone, sorry.)

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Mustache: Collect the ten green gems of yore and forge them in the flames of Mount Discussion. [Locked achievement]


http://localhostr.com/file/5jB6hl2/t2.8.jpg
http://localhostr.com/file/AeDoXTI/72619_1232516840.jpg
http://localhostr.com/file/E2KvIXk/green-montage.jpg


http://localhostr.com/file/Mp0SlIb/paricutin_volcano.jpg

[Nikose Tyris]

I call bullshit, one of those gems is clear and one is aquamarine.

[McTahr]

Re: Snaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake. No need to apologize on that. It was mostly me going "hoshit maybe me being silly can wait another minute until they finish all their adult-word-making"

E- Iunno. That looks more like an explosion anyway. Nothing getting made in there. More like unmade.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

I call bullshit, one of those gems is clear and one is aquamarine.

ADDRESS ALL COMPLAINTS TO GEM MANUFACTURERS OF YORE.
43268 PARK AVENUE, 500 BC.

[MSperoni]

I really genuinely believed that everyone on NPF HAD to like me, and if they didn't like me or value me as a "good friend" I had somehow completely failed as an individual?

Don't worry, Snake, I'm still your pal.



(this thread is pretty entertaining, I just have nothing really to contribute...which is kind of ironic considering I'm reading this as I'm working on content for the site...)

[Solid Snake]

Don't worry, Snake, I'm still your pal.


YES
I STILL HAVE THE ONLY FRIEND WHO MATTERS
THE ONE WHO DRAWS ME STUFF

(Apologies to all otherwise awesome NPF friends who do not draw me stuff.)

[shiney]

Karesh...I'm....going to allow it. Mostly.

[McTahr]

To be fair, it's more like 4/5's-assed.

E- Maybe 3/5's because I didn't see any actual forging. He could have just used a trainer.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

To be fair, it's more like 4/5's-assed.

Damn straight. I demand proper acknowledgement.

[POS Industries]

sF2tkWJ3u9g

[Mr.Bookworm]

(this thread is pretty entertaining, I just have nothing really to contribute...which is kind of ironic considering I'm reading this as I'm working on content for the site...)

This place is kind of like a tumor attached to the main site, really.

[Krylo]

I have to go to work Snake, but when I get back I'm drawing you something.

Probably a dick, because that's the only thing I ever draw when given a blank screen/sheet of paper/anything with intent to draw on it. A very poorly drawn dick.

[Kim]

Then you shouldn't be posting on NPF, Karesh.

[Solid Snake]

Then you shouldn't be posting on NPF, Karesh.


Dammit, I had this whole response of "How could you hate someone drawing pictures of dicks, you love dicks!" primed and then I checked and sure enough you edited to specify you were talking to someone else. =/

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Then you shouldn't be posting on NPF, Karesh.

I have nowhere else to go!

[Nique]

http://localhostr.com/file/5jB6hl2/t2.8.jpg
http://localhostr.com/file/AeDoXTI/72619_1232516840.jpg
http://localhostr.com/file/E2KvIXk/green-montage.jpg


http://localhostr.com/file/Mp0SlIb/paricutin_volcano.jpg

whoa lets make our rep gems look like THAT!

Anyway, I kind of sympathize with people feeling like there is a problem here or having hurt feelings or whatever, and people are entitled to their feelings and belivies.

But I think shiney was basically right - it's more or less an issue with the induvidual getting bent out of shape over stuff.

Like, Liz and I butted heads over some dumb thing I don't even remember what it was, and yeah I wasn't happy with how it turned out or even in a more general sense some of the tone that comes up in certain discussions, but it's my choice to keep being upset about it after it's done with or not, so I'm not and now Liz is sporting a very fashionable Avatar I picked out.

[Kim]

I don't have the memory to hold grudges. It's like 50 First Dates and I'm Drew Barrymore and the title is actually 50 First Arguments.

[MSperoni]

I have to go to work Snake, but when I get back I'm drawing you something.


You better not steal my clients! *shakes fist*

Except I haven't drawn Snake any dicks yet... Then again he hasn't commissioned any.

[Kim]

Well, he shouldn't have to ask for dicks. Dicks should be assumed.

[Solid Snake]

Except I haven't drawn Snake any dicks yet... Then again he hasn't commissioned any.

Hey now, I might someday commission you to draw a birthday present for Liz. >.>

Also I'd have changed my avatar to Dicks in Boxes, Nique, but do you see the lovely mare beneath my name? Her name is Pinkie Pie and she possesses my soul she is ssssooooooo awesomesauce

Well, he shouldn't have to ask for dicks. Dicks should be assumed.

Thanks, Liz! The thought of Matt's beautiful drawings of Franny with dicks will now haunt me with nightmares tonight.
(And they will now haunt Matt, too.)

[Nique]

"Psh, easy for you to say mr rep millionaire. Mr rep $83,000 suit. Mr swimming in a giant pool of rep like scrooge mc duck"

EDIT: Damn this terrible thread is on fire - I was trying to reply to myself.

[Nikose Tyris]

Can I commission you to draw and email him dicks?

[MSperoni]

I'd almost like to see Snake commission me to draw a dick because I'm curious what the wall of text Email describing what he wanted would be like.

[Nikose Tyris]

I got like 2 paragraphs into what I thought it would look like and had to stop because I was getting aroused.

[Solid Snake]

I'd almost like to see Snake commission me to draw a dick because I'm curious what the wall of text Email describing what he wanted would be like.

...
...Okay everyone, this is a monumental occasion.


Does anyone here remember how I had that longstanding rule that I would never Rep anyone else on NPF, that's lasted for like eight years now?

That rule has just been broken
Because that post deserves all the Rep

[Nique]

I don't have the memory to hold grudges. It's like 50 First Dates and I'm Drew Barrymore and the title is actually 50 First Arguments.

That is the one good Adam Sandler movie.

...Maybe excluding Happy Gilmore. Anyway.

But yeah, I mean, we all have different behaviors and tolerances and people will rub each other the wrong way... and that's ok! I think its better to try to move forward understanding that and not focusing on remembering every little slight.

I AM A MARRIED PERSON. I KNU BOUT RELATIONSHIPS.

[McTahr]

The only way to ever top it is to follow through, Snake.

Follow through.

[Aldurin]

I'd almost like to see Snake commission me to draw a dick because I'm curious what the wall of text Email describing what he wanted would be like.

I'm surprised you're not already drawing piles and piles of dicks for people. You need to advertise more.

[shiney]

Tahr are you suggesting a 3/5 compromise? Why heavens above, I didn't realize you're a wealthy landowner!

[Solid Snake]

The only way to ever top it is to follow through, Snake.

Follow through.

Yeah it took me a couple minutes there to even figure out where the Rep button is, like all this time I haven't known

[Aldurin]

The only way to ever top it is to follow through, Snake.

When I first read that post I thought you wanted Snake to follow through with the dick commissions to Speronimafuckthatnameishardtomentallypronounce.

[synkr0nized]

But uh, since everyone is obviously all ready sporting massive hate-wood can I have my old username back?

ha ha ha ha


e: Aldurin, that is what he meant.

[Kim]

I'm pretty sure that is what he meant.

[MSperoni]

Yeah it took me a couple minutes there to even figure out where the Rep button is, like all this time I haven't known

Or does he mean follow through with dick commissions?


I'm surprised you're not already drawing piles and piles of dicks for people. You need to advertise more.

Well, money is tight and commissions are scarce these days, so who knows? I might decide to start drawing Hentai again and then everyone will be all "Hey, dicks and tits for money?!" and I'll be "Sure!"

And then I'll be rolling in the dough.

[McTahr]

Yeah. I definitely meant that there should be a wall of text, right here, in front of my eyes, all tantalizing me with the exact specifications of dick that Snake would like for his commission.

Or at least sent to MS so that he can post it here anyway.

I'm not picky, I just want dick.

E- Well played, NPF ads. Thirty seconds after I post this: "Browse singles now!"

[Solid Snake]

When I first read that post I thought you wanted Snake to follow through with the dick commissions to Speronimafuckthatnameishardtomentallypronounce.

Oh, man.
Okay Matt in your next commission Franny is going to have a secret
(And the secret will be in the form of a bulge)

(...Oh God not really uuuggghhhh.)

[Kim]

What Snake really wants to commission is hardcore twincest Mawaru Penguindrum yaoi.

[Solid Snake]

What Snake really wants to commission is hardcore twincest Mawaru Penguindrum yaoi.

DAMMIT LIZ YOU'VE SPOILED YOUR BIRTHDAY PRESENT

What am I going to do now

[Kim]

Maybe try to get my birthday present to me on my birthday next time.

[Solid Snake]

Maybe try to get my birthday present to me on my birthday next time.

Oh well if you're going to be that unappreciative and snarky about it, maybe you don't deserve a ravishing image of Kanba lovingly penetrating Shoma, wrapping his arms around his chest and grinning delectably as Shoma is blushing and his mouth is ajar in delight an....

...Oh God.
MATT
MATT SPERONI I HAVE A COMMISSION IDEA FOR YOU

[Kim]

Oh well if you're going to be that unappreciative and snarky about it, maybe you don't deserve a ravishing image of Kanba lovingly penetrating Shoma, wrapping his arms around his chest and grinning delectably as Shoma is blushing and his mouth is ajar in delight an....

You suuuuuuuure you're not gay, Snake?

[Solid Snake]

You suuuuuuuure you're not gay, Snake?

I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ANYMORE
AAAAHHHH

(Except that the manner in which we derailed this thread was really quite glorious to behold.)

[MSperoni]

Oh well if you're going to be that unappreciative and snarky about it, maybe you don't deserve a ravishing image of Kanba lovingly penetrating Shoma, wrapping his arms around his chest and grinning delectably as Shoma is blushing and his mouth is ajar in delight an....

...Oh God.
MATT
MATT SPERONI I HAVE A COMMISSION IDEA FOR YOU

Didn't you JUST SAY I should only draw women forever?

[Solid Snake]

Didn't you JUST SAY I should only draw women forever?

...Maybe we can compromise with shemales?

[Flarecobra]

Girls can have dicks too. But that's for another time and place.

[Revising Ocelot]

Goddamnit I accidentally fall asleep for 4 hours and this topic has grown another 140 posts or so.
Like some malign self-deprecating tumour.

Y'all want to stop muscling in on the 'hates themselves in mostly every conceivable way' niche, because I occupied that niche a little way ago and I will not permit anyone to muscle in upon it and start spraying out walls of text, pink or otherwise and who the hell made Snake think it was a good idea to go pink again and blech I'm going back to sleep again. UNDER my pillow.

[Kim]

shemales

http://i43.tinypic.com/166x5r9.png

[Solid Snake]

Y'all want to stop muscling in on the 'hates themselves in mostly every conceivable way' niche, because I occupied that niche a little way ago and I will not permit anyone to muscle in upon it and start spraying out walls of text, pink or otherwise and who the hell made Snake think it was a good idea to go pink again and blech I'm going back to sleep again. UNDER my pillow.

Check earlier in this very thread! You have Amake to blame.

...Also, I have no idea whether Liz is disgusted, disappointed or aroused.

[shiney]

Good thing I'm at work or I'd need some alone time now.

[Revising Ocelot]

Well I'm de-repping you two as soon as de-repping becomes a thing again


Followed by de-repping myself for contributing to this Hydra thread

[Kim]

...Also, I have no idea whether Liz is disgusted, disappointed or aroused.

Watch Soul Eater you fuck.

[MuMu]

...Also, I have no idea whether Liz is disgusted, disappointed or aroused.

That explains a lot about your dates.

[Solid Snake]

Good thing I'm at work or I'd need some alone time now.

I'm honestly shocked a Mod hasn't closed this thread and like, subjected me to some form of torture by now
(It's a pleasant surprise, but still)

EDIT: I've never actually had a serious conversation about whether it's appropriate or not to use that term
Clearly such a progressive and serious conversation is exactly where this thread is now headed
So Liz, hit me up with the facts

[MSperoni]

That explains a lot about your dates.

BUuuuuuuuurrrnnnnnn

[Solid Snake]

That explains a lot about your dates.

Oh God now this will turn into a classic "Woe be to Snake, the worst dater in all of datingdom" thread.
Because the last few Snake dating threads weren't humiliating enough

[shiney]

Haha here we go.

I've never seen a serious conversation about the term 'shemale' either because generally speaking that type of conversation is relegated to "ew" or "hott".

[Kim]

Liz, hit me up with the facts

Ask yourself, have you ever heard that term used in any way whatsoever that wasn't plainly insulting or fetishistic? I'd wager you have not. On the very slight off-chance you have, I'd wager that makes up a very, very small amount of the time. Unless you know someone who others would use that term for and who self-identifies with that term, you should never use it. Even then, you should only use it for that one specific person and only if you have their permission.

[Solid Snake]

Haha here we go.

I've never seen a serious conversation about the term 'shemale' either because generally speaking that type of conversation is relegated to "ew" or "hott".

That is precisely why it needs to happen.
Right here and right now!
This thread is going to educate us

[Fenris]

That is precisely why it needs to happen.
Right here and right now!
This thread is going to educate us


That train sure went by fast.

[Kim]

I'm so good at educating I finish before you even notice I started.

This is also why my sex life sucks.

[MSperoni]

This thread is going to educate us

This thread is going to head off into a direction no one could have predicted.

[Revising Ocelot]

This thread is going to head off into a direction no one could have predicted.

"NPF sucks"


No, it's just gone into the juvenile direction, as such things are wont to do.

Man this thread should be locked on the basis of self-fulfilling prophecies.

[Solid Snake]

Ask yourself, have you ever heard that term used in any way whatsoever that wasn't plainly insulting or fetishistic? I'd wager you have not. On the very slight off-chance you have, I'd wager that makes up a very, very small amount of the time. Unless you know someone who others would use that term for and who self-identifies with that term, you should never use it. Even then, you should only use it for that one specific person and only if you have their permission.

You see, (being generally ignorant on the subject as I've nver had the pleasure of meeting one, to the best of my knowledge) I thought there was some division between women who identified as a female in terms of gender but kept their original biological parts (who would not be referred to by that term and would be a woman) and a person who wanted to be simultaneously "male and female" for the purposes of appealing to the fetish or because that was actually their preferred biological hybrid-form or something.

REVEL IN MY IDIOTIC IGNORANCE
...But seriously, precisely because it's not something I've felt compelled to consider or talk about before, and because it tends to be a taboo subject to discuss in a serious, non-fetishistic context, it's just not something I've ever analyzed in terms of whether using the word was inappropriate. So, good to know.

[phil_]

What Snake really wants to commission is hardcore twincest Mawaru Penguindrum yaoi.They're not even twins. And Kanba lost his actual twin status when he saved the day. Or maybe when he got his twin shot. I dunno, there's a lot of stuff that didn't happen that the whole mess is founded on.

But Shoma and Kanba definitely aren't twins, unless they are now, which would make them elementary school twins, and no one should be commissioning naked drawings of little boys.

[shiney]

It being of particularly personal nature to Liz, I am happy to oblige with not using the term.

But what about tranny, t-girl or ladyboy?

Should I know all these terms?

[Marc v4.0]

The second lesson here is that, given enough time, the way you are currently doesn't matter because you've screwed up in the past and no one ever lives anything down OR you did a cool thing in the past and now you have to do things in the same way forever.

This was a long way back but I am moving through the thread so Deal With It

This isn't a 100% true always at all. I like to think a lot of people see me as an OK dude with varying opinions and respectable intelligence, and I was one fuck of an asshole my first time through the NPF Playland.

[Kim]

There is a division. The generally accepted adjective for people who fall under that is intersex.

Ooh, actually, that's another good rule of thumb. If the word you're using to describe people of a certain minority group is a noun or commonly used as a noun, rather than an adjective, you should be dubious of it. Not that it defaults to being bad, but you should question its usage and educate yourself just to make sure.

[MSperoni]

It being of particularly personal nature to Liz, I am happy to oblige with not using the term.

But what about tranny, t-girl or ladyboy?

Should I know all these terms?


In the Erotica Industry, we referred to it as Futanaria.......................I mean....I know a guy who knows a guy who said that's what they refer to it as.

[Kim]

It being of particularly personal nature to Liz, I am happy to oblige with not using the term.

But what about tranny, t-girl or ladyboy?

Should I know all these terms?

All these terms are awful. They're also all nouns, further validating my point. Also: Intersex != Transgender. Confusing them as being the same leads to problems.

[Solid Snake]

There is a division. The generally accepted adjective for people who fall under that is intersex.

Ooh, actually, that's another good rule of thumb. If the word you're using to describe people of a certain minority group is a noun or commonly used as a noun, rather than an adjective, you should be dubious of it. Not that it defaults to being bad, but you should question its usage and educate yourself just to make sure.

Now I'm curious as to the protocol of like, in an ideal society, (as in, not modern society but a society in which we're all behaving as we should behave) how should heterosexual men interact with these women and/or intersex individuals?

Should biological compatibility or gender compatibility control the possibility of relationships?
IE, would it theoretically be homophobic or "wrong" of someone, attracted to a woman's personality who presents herself to him as female, to reject her the moment that biological incompatibility is known? Should whether he wants or does not want children be a required prerequisite for the rejection or is mere "biological incompatibility" on its own legitimate? Or, is the continued possibility of anal sex with the woman as recipient sufficient to justify their remaining a couple?

OH MAN LET'S GO DEEP and oh God I should regret typing these questions but it's kind of fascinating to learn the answers

[Kim]

Futanari

I may or may not give this a pass depending on context.

If you're using it to describe the individual, it's bad.

If you're using it to describe the anime porn that stars such individuals, it technically passes, though the porn itself is often problematic as fuck on a number of levels.

[Ryong]

I just noticed that the thread name just took on a whole new meaning in the last few of pages.

[Nikose Tyris]

Transgender. Intersex. And many prefer the use of general pronounds like "they" instead of She.

This is pretty much the only way I've ever seen things done that weren't offending someone.

[Flarecobra]

Interestingly enough, I've got a few trans friends whom refer to themselves in such a manner.

[MSperoni]

I may or may not give this a pass depending on context.

If you're using it to describe the individual, it's bad.

If you're using it to describe the anime porn that stars such individuals, it technically passes, though the porn itself is often problematic as fuck on a number of levels.

I was referencing it in regards to anime/hentai genre, not individuals.

[Kim]

Now I'm curious as to the protocol of like, in an ideal society, (as in, not modern society but a society in which we're all behaving as we should behave) how should heterosexual men interact with these women and/or intersex individuals?

It depends on the heterosexual man. Heterosexual men can be attracted to pre-op trans women for example. Heterosexual men can be attracted to intersex women as well. As much as it grinds my gears to say so, biological incompatibility in terms of sexual attraction is probably mostly legit, just so long as you don't use your sexual orientation as your excuse for not being attracted to pre-op trans folk or intersex folk. "I can't date you because I'm straight," is where it becomes problematic, in my book, because it reads as invalidating their gender.

[shiney]

Aw I'm just funnin' ya Liz.

Also Matt: yeah I know the internet has been a horrible corrupting thing.

[Kim]

Interestingly enough, I've got a few trans friends whom refer to themselves in such a manner.

This doesn't surprise me. But there's a definite difference between what specific individuals use and find okay and what is okay to use when talking about groups as a whole. Err on the side of caution unless you hear the individual you're dealing with use a particular term and you also make sure it's okay if you use that term when dealing with them.

I was referencing it in regards to anime/hentai genre, not individuals.

I know. I just wanted to address that.

[Nikose Tyris]

As an awkward situation taught me about 3 years ago, it's probably better to offend before you two get home.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

If anyone learns anything from this thread, it should be Karesh learning how to stay permanently logged into the site so he doesn't cause a major road accident.

[MSperoni]

I've learned a lot from this thread.

http://s1.guyism.com/up/the-more-you-know.jpg

[shiney]

I'm concerned that the google ad now offers me to look up criminal histories.

[Solid Snake]

If anyone learns anything from this thread, it should be Karesh learning how to stay permanently logged into the site never log into, read, or post on the site while driving so he doesn't cause a major road accident.

Fixed that for you.

[Nikose Tyris]

Fixed that for you.

Unless you're verbally instructing Siri what to post. I think you can get away with that.

[Solid Snake]

It depends on the heterosexual man. Heterosexual men can be attracted to pre-op trans women for example. Heterosexual men can be attracted to intersex women as well. As much as it grinds my gears to say so, biological incompatibility in terms of sexual attraction is probably mostly legit, just so long as you don't use your sexual orientation as your excuse for not being attracted to pre-op trans folk or intersex folk. "I can't date you because I'm straight," is where it becomes problematic, in my book, because it reads as invalidating their gender.

I think the difficulty here then becomes that a heterosexual man has to either draw the line with sheer biological compatibility (thereby depriving women of identifying as their true gender) OR drawing the line through some "personality" distinction between "male and female," which may enable men to date pre-ops but is equally problematic in some respects because it's essentially akin to someone saying "Okay, we can be biologically incompatible but so long as she's 'feminine' enough I'll consider her female," and that's basically drawing a line as to what traits or qualities men and women "can or should" possess to be considered that gender, and that's another bad can of worms.

(...Oh, wait: This discussion is over and ended several minutes ago? Sorry, lost that memo.)

[Nikose Tyris]

Snake: "I'm primarily attracted to your genetalia."

[Solid Snake]

Snake: "I'm primarily attracted to your genetalia."

Isn't that problematic on its own level, though? If you're looking for romance and a potential long-term partner boiling it down to "it's all about your vagina" sounds, uhh, kind of offensive even to a biologically born female. No one wants to hear themselves boiled down to that.

[Nikose Tyris]

...I fogot my sarcasm tag, I apologize for that. I was trying to tease you good naturedly.

[Archbio]

Girls can have dicks too.

That can also refer to transhumanism.

[phil_]

People should date other people they're attracted to on a person-by-person basis, I guess.

That said, Snake, do you wear a suit often? Like a business suit to look all lawyer-y when you're law schooling it up? I'd ask you in a PM, but your box is full. I need to know for a thing.

[Loyal]

Yeah I'll give you that. People should be less condescending in their arguments. But then we get into the debate of "what amount of snark is acceptable and what is against the rules" and I don't want my mods to have to get themselves involved in being the "acceptable tone" police as their job would never, ever end. It would be nice if some people could self-regulate. Sometimes myself included. But it would also be nice if some other people would think for themselves and do some independent analysis, check a wide variety of sources and then check who funds those sources...for an argument on NPF this isn't really feasible, this is hardly a scholarly forum, but if you are going to get into a debate or a big discussion about [x] and someone is going to beat you over the head with info then maybe you should check the veracity of your own statements??

tl;dr some haters just gonna hate, be it the arguers or the quit4lyfers. The internet pulls no punches though...
You must have missed the months where I was pretty much constantly at war with Liz and then I realized that half of the reason that I viewed her posts as rage inducing insult-fests was because I went into the threads expecting rage inducing insult-fests.

So I stopped getting into spats with Liz and then all of the sudden Liz's posts didn't make me upset anymore and it was like whoa
I'm not saying it's necessary to wage a holy crusade on anyone who steps a single toe out of line. I'm just saying it'd be nice if there were more like,

I dunno,

"hey look, you're in the right here, but please tone down the condescension/mockery a bit. Maybe it'd be better if you just walked away from the discussion, at least where Other Guy's posts are concerned? You've made your points well enough.

And hey, Other Guy, a critical component of a discussion is listening to and actually responding to what the other person is saying, preferably while making an effort to verify your own statements. If you can't do that I'm not sure there's much to be gained by continuing to act like you're contributing to the discussion."

[Solid Snake]

That said, Snake, do you wear a suit often? Like a business suit to look all lawyer-y when you're law schooling it up? I'd ask you in a PM, but your box is full. I need to know for a thing.

Yeah, suits and ties are commonplace, though I won't really start wearing them regularly until I'm out of law school.
(And my NPF "character" is often basically drawn as [the 'real' Solid] Snake in a suit and tie.)

[phil_]

Yeah, suits and ties are commonplace, though I won't really start wearing them regularly until I'm out of law school.
(And my NPF "character" is often basically drawn as [the 'real' Solid] Snake in a suit and tie.)But what kind of suit and tie? There are so many, and there's all this stuff with pocket flaps and under-vests and what are cuff-links for? I'm going for accuracy here, man.

What I'm saying is post in the Camwhore Thread. Get dressed.

[MSperoni]

Just draw Snake as if he's dressed like Phoenix Wright. Only with Solid Snake's head :)

[Solid Snake]

But what kind of suit and tie? There are so many, and there's all this stuff with pocket flaps and under-vests and what are cuff-links for? I'm going for accuracy here, man.

What I'm saying is post in the Camwhore Thread. Get dressed.

Nah man, doesn't really matter. Just put the Metal Gear Solid Snake in any ol' suit and tie and it'll be decently representative enough of me. I ain't picky.
(I will say I prefer darker navy suits than Wright's bright blue, though.)

[Nikose Tyris]

GIVE HIM AN UGLY SMILE

[MSperoni]

Dress him like Von Karma with Solid Snake's head!

[Token]

Goddamnit I accidentally fall asleep for 4 hours and this topic has grown another 140 posts or so.
Like some malign self-deprecating tumour.

Y'all want to stop muscling in on the 'hates themselves in mostly every conceivable way' niche, because I occupied that niche a little way ago and I will not permit anyone to muscle in upon it and start spraying out walls of text, pink or otherwise and who the hell made Snake think it was a good idea to go pink again and blech I'm going back to sleep again. UNDER my pillow.

Oi, fuck you. I've got a medamn monopoly on self-loathing.

[phil_]

Phoenix Wright, got it.

Now clean out your inbox, Mr. Buried Alive: NPF Edition: Real-Life Private Message Hoarders.

[Magus]

Unless you're verbally instructing Siri what to post. I think you can get away with that.

Only if the results are hilariously inaccurate.

Which is to say, everybody start doing this now.

[Solid Snake]

GIVE HIM AN UGLY SMILE

It's funny because I was just wondering "Jeez, why don't I un-ignore Nikose on MSN and speak to him once in a while?"

...And then you said that and I was like, ooooohhhhhh. Now I remember.

Also: Fine, fine. I'll clean out the inbox.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

All I have to add is if you wear a suit you are automatically a cunt.
It's a law of the universe.

[Solid Snake]

All I have to add is if you wear a suit you are automatically a cunt.
It's a law of the universe.

k thx

[synkr0nized]

All I have to add is if you wear a suit you are automatically a cunt.
It's a law of the universe.

You are so incredibly wrong.
But that is probably par for the course anymore.

[Nikose Tyris]

It's funny because I was just wondering "Jeez, why don't I un-ignore Nikose on MSN and speak to him once in a while?"

...And then you said that and I was like, ooooohhhhhh. Now I remember.

Also: Fine, fine. I'll clean out the inbox.

In all fairness you should probably unignore me eventually. I have like a wall of links to show to you that I've been saving up.

[BitVyper]

I gotta side with Smarty here. Suits are pretty cunty.

Well, maybe more douchey than cunty.

[Solid Snake]

In all fairness you should probably unignore me eventually. I have like a wall of links to show to you that I've been saving up.

I should, because it's no longer based on principle and is now more based on "Oh good God, if I talk to Nik every day like I used to I will waste far too much time cracking jokes instead of getting shit accomplished." But, I kind of like getting shit accomplished.

Also this time last year you totally promised that our friendship would lead to me losing my virginity in 2011, and that didn't happen, don't think I forgot that.

[Nikose Tyris]

You blocked me well before the end of 2011, I demand a 4 month leeway.

[DarkDrgon]

man, threads like these are why I stay around here. whenever i need a good laugh, NPF always delivers.

[Fifthfiend]

I'm pretty glad this thread went to whereever the fuck this is instead of whereever the fuck it had been going.

[Nikose Tyris]

we're all having a bit of a feel good now after the opening bit of downers

[Solid Snake]

I blocked you in early November. I owe you two months, not four.

[Nikose Tyris]

The time lost counts double, I thought you were a lawyer.

[Solid Snake]

The time lost counts double, I thought you were a lawyer.

I am, but you're not!

[Nikose Tyris]

I have one on retainer!

[synkr0nized]

I'm pretty glad this thread went to whereever the fuck this is

A Snake/Nikose PM?

[MSperoni]

I'm pretty glad this thread went to whereever the fuck this is instead of whereever the fuck it had been going.

Once you get Snake talkin' about dicks, then all bets are off. Unless you bet on Snake talkin' about dicks. Then you win big.


That was my strategy all along.

[Archbio]

This isn't Snake's PM box?

[Solid Snake]

This isn't Snake's PM box?

Man it'd actually be fun to have a public PM inbox, now that I think of it.
Everyone else could write like, commentary and snide jokes for each message.

[Nikose Tyris]

I don't think you want that. Because I've saved all the really embarassing stuff about Vegas and different ideas you've had in all my chatlogs.

[Solid Snake]

I don't think you want that. Because I've saved all the really embarassing stuff about Vegas and different ideas you've had in all my chatlogs.

Oh man Nik
You keep digging that hole for yourself
Like there is this hole
And the hole represents "the depraved failings of our friendship"
and you're like
"Man, maybe if I keep digging I'll go to China!"
But in fact you're really just digging a hole that will cut into the Earth and cause lava to seep up and create a massive fiery explosion that will engulf the world

[Nikose Tyris]

<3 We'll always have Paris.

[Geminex]

Man, I just wanna say, snake, fair warning, when nikose promises to help you lose your virginity, he generally means losing it to him.

Edit: Not that I speak from experience

[Archbio]

This spyware is worthless.

[Nikose Tyris]

Man, I just wanna say, snake, fair warning, when nikose promises to help you lose your virginity, he generally means losing it to him.

Edit: Not that I speak from experience

Your fingers were so gentle that night

[Loyal]

Man it'd actually be fun to have a public PM inbox, now that I think of it.

I'm not sure you understand what "Private Message" means.