Log in

View Full Version : The Black Panthers were fucking awesome


Kim
05-23-2012, 12:24 AM
Enjoy this speech from Black Panther co-founder Huey Newton (http://hiphopandpolitics.wordpress.com/2012/05/11/looking-back-at-huey-newtons-thoughts-on-gay-rights-in-the-wake-of-obamas-endorsement/)

During the past few years strong movements have developed among women and among homosexuals seeking their liberation. There has been some uncertainty about how to relate to these movements.

Whatever your personal opinions and your insecurities about
homosexuality and the various liberation movements among homosexuals
and women (and I speak of the homosexuals and women as oppressed
groups), we should try to unite with them in a revolutionary fashion.
I say ” whatever your insecurities are” because as we very well know,
sometimes our first instinct is to want to hit a homosexual in the
mouth, and want a woman to be quiet. We want to hit a homosexual in
the mouth because we are afraid that we might be homosexual; and we
want to hit the women or shut her up because we are afraid that she
might castrate us, or take the nuts that we might not have to start
with.

We must gain security in ourselves and therefore have respect and
feelings for all oppressed people. We must not use the racist attitude
that the White racists use against our people because they are Black
and poor. Many times the poorest White person is the most racist
because he is afraid that he might lose something, or discover
something that he does not have. So you’re some kind of a threat to
him. This kind of psychology is in operation when we view oppressed
people and we are angry with them because of their particular kind of
behavior, or their particular kind of deviation from the established
norm.

Remember, we have not established a revolutionary value system; we are
only in the process of establishing it. I do not remember our ever
constituting any value that said that a revolutionary must say
offensive things towards homosexuals, or that a revolutionary should
make sure that women do not speak out about their own particular kind
of oppression. As a matter of fact, it is just the opposite: we say
that we recognize the women’s right to be free. We have not said much
about the homosexual at all, but we must relate to the homosexual
movement because it is a real thing. And I know through reading, and
through my life experience and observations that homosexuals are not
given freedom and liberty by anyone in the society. They might be the
most oppresed people in the society.

And what made them homosexual? Perhaps it’s a phenomenon that I don’t
understand entirely. Some people say that it is the decadence of
capitalism. I don’t know if that is the case; I rather doubt it. But
whatever the case is, we know that homosexuality is a fact that
exists, and we must understand it in its purest form: that is, a
person should have the freedom to use his body in whatever way he
wants.

That is not endorsing things in homosexuality that we wouldn’t view as
revolutionary. But there is nothing to say that a homosexual cannot
also be a revolutionary. And maybe I’m now injecting some of my
prejudice by saying that “even a homosexual can be a revolutionary.”
Quite the contrary, maybe a homosexual could be the most
revolutionary.

When we have revolutionary conferences, rallies, and demonstrations,
there should be full participation of the gay liberation movement and
the women’s liberation movement. Some groups might be more
revolutionary than others. We should not use the actions of a few to
say that they are all reactionary or counterrevolutionary, because
they are not.

We should deal with the factions just as we deal with any other group
or party that claims to be revolutionary. We should try to judge,
somehow, whether they are operating in a sincere revolutionary fashion
and from a really oppressed situation. (And we will grant that if they
are women they are probably oppressed.) If they do things that are
unrevolutionary or counterrevolutionary, then criticize that action.
If we feel that the group in spirit means to be revolutionary in
practice, but they make mistakes in interpretation of the
revolutionary philosophy, or they do not understand the dialectics of
the social forces in operation, we should criticize that and not
criticize them because they are women trying to be free. And the same
is true for homosexuals. We should never say a whole movement is
dishonest when in fact they are trying to be honest. They are just
making honest mistakes. Friends are allowed to make mistakes. The
enemy is not allowed to make mistakes because his whole existence is a
mistake, and we suffer from it. But the women’s liberation front and
gay liberation front are our friends, they are our potential allies,
and we need as many allies as possible.

We should be willing to discuss the insecurities that many people have
about homosexuality. When I say “insecurities,” I mean the fear that
they are some kind of threat to our manhood. I can understand this
fear. Because of the long conditioning process which builds insecurity
in the American male, homosexuality might produce certain hang-ups in
us. I have hang-ups myself about male homosexuality. But on the other
hand, I have no hang-up about female homosexuality. And that is a
phenomenon in itself. I think it is probably because male
homosexuality is a threat to me and female homosexuality is not.

We should be careful about using those terms that might turn our
friends off. The terms “faggot” and “punk” should be deleted from our
vocabulary, and especially we should not attach names normally
designed for homosexuals to men who are enemies of the people, such as
Nixon or Mitchell. Homosexuals are not enemies of the people.

We should try to form a working coalition with the gay liberation and
women’s liberation groups. We must always handle social forces in the
most appropriate manner.

I am in awe of how fucking awesome this dude is.

Gregness
05-23-2012, 12:52 AM
Wait, "punk" is especially offensive to homosexuals?

Professor Smarmiarty
05-23-2012, 01:47 AM
Black panthers were sweet as maoists.

Amake
05-23-2012, 01:56 AM
In 1970? "Punk" probably would translate as "get away from me, you're weird". I can see how it would be used to curse homosexuals.

Osterbaum
05-23-2012, 06:49 AM
August 15th 1970. That's pretty rad.

Professor Smarmiarty
05-23-2012, 09:27 AM
Man Ost you let me down.
You supposed to say "If they didn't spend all their day blowing Satre maybe they would have achieved more". What kind of socialist are you.
Probably a maoist.

Osterbaum
05-23-2012, 11:18 AM
Maoism isn't even the worst. Besides, got to digg all of the revolutionary "people's war" stuff a bit, even if it's not a particularly good strategy.

Professor Smarmiarty
05-23-2012, 01:18 PM
Maoism is fine for tinpot artists drinking their espressos in montmatre and guerrilas from the darkest corners of the globe. Anywhere in the middle and its pretty sketchy though.

Premmy
05-23-2012, 02:07 PM
Wait, "punk" is especially offensive to homosexuals?

Some people, usually older ones, use it to imply "weakness" or Femininity in males, and is often extrapolated into homosexuality. Related to "getting punked" (not "punk'd"). Obviously it's not used towards lesbians. My mom uses it at me a lot.

Osterbaum
05-23-2012, 03:39 PM
I always figured it just meant like "damn kids!" or delinquent etc.

e: rude, brash, not a "normie"

Nique
05-23-2012, 06:33 PM
I was kind of thrown by his use of the word 'punk' as well. I guess you'd have to understand the way the word was being thrown around in the 70s or maybe even expierience it firsthand to really get the meaning but the etomology of the word sounds sort of interesting, and points to it being used against homosexuals.


punk (1)
1896, "inferior, bad," also "something worthless," earlier "rotten wood used as tinder" (1680s), probably from Delaware (Algonquian) ponk, lit. "dust, powder, ashes;" but Gaelic spong "tinder" also has been suggested (cf. spunk "touchwood, tinder," 1580s). Meaning "Chinese incense" is from 1870.

punk (2)
"worthless person" (especially a young hoodlum), 1917, probably from punk kid "criminal's apprentice," underworld slang first attested 1904 (with overtones of "catamite"). Ultimately from punk "prostitute, harlot, strumpet," first recorded 1590s, of unknown origin. For sense shift from "harlot" to "homosexual," cf. gay. By 1923 used generally for "young boy, inexperienced person" (originally in show business, e.g. punk day, circus slang from 1930, "day when children are admitted free"). The verb meaning "to back out of" is from 1920. The "young criminal" sense is no doubt the inspiration in punk rock first attested 1971 (in a Dave Marsh article in "Creem"), popularized 1976.

It's only less insulting or derogatory now, it would seem, because the culture around perceived 'punks' became sort of a popular or trendy counter-culture thing?

Nique
05-23-2012, 06:56 PM
'But Liz, aren't the Black Panthers basically a somehow even worse version of the KKK?'

Kim
05-23-2012, 07:21 PM
I'm gonna give you all some homework. The Black Power Mixtape is on Netflix Instant. Watch it.

No.

Really.

Watch it.

Professor Smarmiarty
05-24-2012, 03:45 AM
'But Liz, aren't the Black Panthers basically a somehow even worse version of the KKK?'

While the black panthers were initially about black nationalism they abandoned it pretty early on in favour of internationalist, raceless, socialist ideals. In their main period of activities they were not about black nationalism at all.

CABAL49
05-24-2012, 04:34 AM
Also J. Edgar Hoover was a racist fuck and wasted the FBI on making sure everyone considered scary. So a bunch of black people getting together saying they aren't going to be shit on anymore were turned into a terrorist group. This is not to say members of the Black Panthers were not racist. But most cases could be attributed to suffering from PTSD and then being shit on.

Professor Smarmiarty
05-24-2012, 04:42 AM
Also they were communists. Gotta demonise those commie fucks however you can. Which is why it so hilarious because like one of the principles of communism is anti-nationalism, imperialism and racism so it is pretty good manouevering to make them both scary communists and black nationalists in the public mind.

Osterbaum
05-24-2012, 05:41 AM
There have been and still are a lot of nationalist communists though, maybe best known are the ones from Latin-America, but there have also been some in Africa and Asia.

Professor Smarmiarty
05-24-2012, 05:54 AM
By "nationalist communists" you mean Stalinists who aren't really communists because Socialism in One Country was a complete misunderstanding of how communism operates on a macro level.
Man do you just read all the cunts of history?

Osterbaum
05-24-2012, 07:00 AM
There are a lot of movements that while in no way stalinist, still have incorporated nationality or ethnic background in to their socialism one way or another. Like hell, take Che or the Zapatistas for example.

e: it's all about fighting the imperialists, which are often represented by North-American corporations.

e2: In Latin-America it is often part of their socialist agenda to get back their natural resources from foreign corporations and to not allow further interferance from foreign powers. And the foreign power they have in mind is more often than not the USA. So in a way nationalism is often part of their ideology. I suppose they see the US, a major foreign power, as a root of many of their problems either directly or indirectly by being the main advocate of US brand capitalism in the area. The counter reaction to capitalism is socialism, but at the same time the counter reaction to US government and corporations influence is nationalism.

Professor Smarmiarty
05-24-2012, 08:49 AM
You're talking about socialism. Socialism and nationalism can be combined- thought the degree of socialism you can maintain under a national system is a point of contention but you can achieve some degree.
I'm talking about communism. Communism and nationalism can't be combined.
Like some of them call themselves communist groups but they don't make them communists unless you consider Stalinism as a legitimite path to communism (Hint: It isn't).
Also again the fight against "imperialism" is pretty much tied up with Stalinism. While say Marx and Lenin hadd lots to say about imperialism it was all to do with the economic factors controlling the world and never to do with viable alternatives to the capitalist order except in the extreme short term.

Osterbaum
05-24-2012, 09:08 AM
Hah, yeah you are right: communism and nationalism dont mix. Somehow I didnt register that you said communism instead of socialism.

And I agree, stalinism is bullcrap.

Nique
05-24-2012, 09:22 AM
While the black panthers were initially about black nationalism they abandoned it pretty early on in favour of internationalist, raceless, socialist ideals. In their main period of activities they were not about black nationalism at all.

That was essentially Malcom X's evolution as well, although he was not associated with the Black Panthers. He basically went from 'All White people are literally the devil' to 'White people are the devil because of a factual history of being awful' to 'Yeah ok I was being kind of a dick about that devil stuff white people can be cool.'

Professor Smarmiarty
05-24-2012, 09:40 AM
Hah, yeah you are right: communism and nationalism dont mix. Somehow I didnt register that you said communism instead of socialism.

And I agree, stalinism is bullcrap.

To be honest I went back and checked my posts cause I though "Oh shit maybe I did write socialism".

Magus
05-25-2012, 12:28 AM
The Black Panthers probably mostly get a bad rap because 1. white people can't tell the difference between them and the Nation of Islam and whoever all else and 2. Eldridge Cleaver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eldridge_Cleaver), serial rapist (who in the most ironic twist of all time became a Mormon and Republican later in life!)

Also there was that white Black Panther in Forrest Gump and all the white people were like "I am confused and disoriented by this film."