Time Zone Discussion

[BahamutFlare]

So me and a friend are arguing over time zones. And basically I have 2 questions, does 24:00 exist?

Part 2 which is the main part, what exactly happens where the time zone is +/-12. I'm a big calc fan, so when I look at a graph of the displacement, I see a no slope. Because the displacement of time goes from +23 to 0. In this case, I think it'd make more sense graphically and maybe mathematically for time zones to go from 0 to 12 to 0. We don't really need + or minus. Just take the absolute value using GMT.

It seems that if you travel around the world, you magically travel back in time 23 hours when reaching that certain point. Time flows so I just don't understand why reaching that point doesn't change the day. Why +0 isn't +24 also. +24 makes it a new day thus making it +0 again. You travel around in one way, so in a way, you experienced more or less earth rotations, I'd think.

In GMT, how does +12/-12 work? Both are the same reference point, but are the the same time, same day? Anyway that 'wall' where it changes drastically is my main curiosity in how it works. Thank you all for the discussion.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

1. Does 24:00 exist? You could just as well ask if 23:60 exists. The answer is yes. Both are 0:00.

We start counting at 0 because that's the first hour of the day. 1 o clock is the second. 23 is the 24th. The day only has 24 hours, though. So the most intuitive thing is to go back to 0 after 23, so we don't have the first hour of a day to be noted as 24:00. Some may do it, but I don't see why aside from confusing people.

2. Let's assume 12:00 in GMT. Let's also assume DST doesn't exist. That means in -12 the day starts and in +12 (they cover the same region, the difference is the date, see: International Date Line (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_date_line) which says what I'm saying with better words, but also more of them.) the day is over. Pass that mark and the date will change. It doesn't really work any different than time "differences" in different time zones. You are not "traveling through time magically" You are entering a different time zone. One that just happens to be a day "earlier" on the calendar.

[Bells]

To be more "florish" about it... the space between 00:00 and 01:00 is what makes 1 hour, not the "1 hour" it self. So, in reality, the "24th hour" would be the space between 23:00 and 24:00, but when 24:00 arrives it automatically cycles back, going to 00:00

[CABAL49]

Yes it exists. Can we talk about how DST is silly now?

[Krylo]

DST is super dumb and I hate it.

[Nique]

I would love it if we had DST but only if it was fall back all the time never EVER spring forward.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I don't understand whats so hard, +12 and -12 exist, when you go over them you lose/gain a day. American Samoa recentely swapped date lines so they had the same day as Australia (where they do most of their business now) rather than America (where they ued to)

[BahamutFlare]

My friend said that when you pass them, you don't lose a day. That it remains the same day. Time zones are just markers in which you add X hours to the actual time. In which I wonder, when you get to +23 hours. Why can't the next one be +24? He stated that 24:00 hours and +24 do not exist.

My big thing is if you graph it. I like my graphs to look neat without any breaks. However, at the dateline, it has no slope. If you would use GMT but with absolute value, then the graph would be perfect looking. But you just add or lose a day. When crossing a time zone to me should only add or lose an hour. Why is that one line an exception to the rule?

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I just don't even understand why you are saying. Your explanation makes no sense.
It is a different day on either side of the timezone- this is precisely the reason American Samoa changed because when they were on Friday Australia and NZ were on Saturday and closed. You do gain +24 or -24 hours when you cross it.
If it is 10:30am Monday on the Eastern side, its 10:30am Tuesday on the western side. Thus by crossing you gain or lose 24 hours, 1 day.
I think that is what your confusion is, your post makes no sense to me.

[BahamutFlare]

I just honestly hate the idea of time zones. You cross a line and you gain/lose 24 hours. When every time you cross a time zone line, you gain/lose 1. It just isn't consistent.

You're never gaining or losing an hour or day by crossing a time zone. The only thing time zones are useful for are making markers in the day.. Every day at 1 PM you will see the sun (weather excluded). It's just a marker saying "This is when these people see the sun rise."

[CABAL49]

It's just a marker saying "This is when these people see the sun rise."

Yes. That is the purpose. What is your point?

[BahamutFlare]

I dunno. Maybe a different phrase. Either way, I understand time zones. I just don't like the formatting of them.

[greed]

The fuck is this shit, it works, it's simple. You got a better idea to communicate that it is roughly a certain time of day in this location?

[Hatake Kakashi]

Silly people. Of course 24:00 exists. Anyone who knows what Otaku O'clock is can tell you there are 27 hours in a day. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OtakuOClock)

[Amake]

We can keep timezones and have a globally unified, Internet friendly time as well. Prepare to become bitemporal, see, it's like bilingual except you have two times instead of two languages and it's totally sweet. The system is already in place, it's been for decades, it's just a matter of making use of it.

I give you: Beat time (http://www.swatch.com/zz_en/home.html).

[PyrosNine]

If you guys want, i can totally hack the solar system vis a vis pyrokinetic manipulation of the distance between here and a certain burning ball o'hydrogen, and give you an extra hour - that way there'll be a 24:00 and 0:00 will mean 25 o'clock.

The earth may begin spiraling out of control and out of orbit, mass chaos may ensue as a result of billions of living creature's natural biorhythms going out of whack/ planetary jet lag, and the dark lord Shabraniogsoth may rise from the infernal maw between demensions to gnaw at our perceptions of reality and give rise to an age of eternal waking nightmare....

But everybody could really use that extra hour, amirite?

[akaSM]

But, will 25 o'clock really exist?

[PyrosNine]

But, will 25 o'clock really exist?

Oh sure! Keep moving the goalposts why don't you!? :mad:

[A Zarkin' Frood]

Time is a fancy word people made up for shit moving. In case anyone missed that. And a clock does nothing but tell you when the sun rises on earth. I'm not enough of a time pro to tell you how long a mars day is in earth hours and I'm too lazy to look it up. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that you could find a planet somewhere that allows for a 25 hour day. If you're really lucky it's inhabitable.

[Bum Bill Bee]

Hmm, y'know I always wondered why there was never a metric system for measuring time. The vast majority of the world uses a metric system to measure everything else.

[akaSM]

Hmm, y'know I always wondered why there was never a metric system for measuring time. The vast majority of the world uses a metric system to measure everything else.

*Insert U.S. and imperial system-related joke here*

[Bum Bill Bee]

....Youre welcome akaSM?

[Sithdarth]

If you guys want, i can totally hack the solar system vis a vis pyrokinetic manipulation of the distance between here and a certain burning ball o'hydrogen, and give you an extra hour - that way there'll be a 24:00 and 0:00 will mean 25 o'clock.

The earth may begin spiraling out of control and out of orbit, mass chaos may ensue as a result of billions of living creature's natural biorhythms going out of whack/ planetary jet lag, and the dark lord Shabraniogsoth may rise from the infernal maw between demensions to gnaw at our perceptions of reality and give rise to an age of eternal waking nightmare....

But everybody could really use that extra hour, amirite?

Man if you're going to make a joke at least be factually accurate. Changing the Earth-Sun distance will change the length of the year but do jack in terms of changing the length of the day.

Hmm, y'know I always wondered why there was never a metric system for measuring time. The vast majority of the world uses a metric system to measure everything else.

There is in a way. Otherwise we wouldn't have femtoseconds and the like. The SI unit of time is pretty much just various powers of seconds.

And now that I've killed the joy with facts I must depart.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Pffft the Frenchies tried real metric time- 10 hours a day, 100 minutes per hour, 100 seconds per minute. Had a whole calendar too but not work as well- it was like 12 months of 3 ten day weeks with 5/6 holiday days.
Doing shit in base 12 is heaps more useful thouh (as our time is) and there was campaigns in the 19th century to change our entire math base system to 12 but it didn't catch on.

Though yeah, seconds behind themselves act metrically- its minutes and hours that aren't metric and they aren't SI units.

[krogothwolf]

Pffft the Frenchies tried real metric time- 10 hours a day, 100 minutes per hour, 100 seconds per minute. Had a whole calendar too but not work as well- it was like 12 months of 3 ten day weeks with 5/6 holiday days.
Doing shit in base 12 is heaps more useful thouh (as our time is) and there was campaigns in the 19th century to change our entire math base system to 12 but it didn't catch on.

Though yeah, seconds behind themselves act metrically- its minutes and hours that aren't metric and they aren't SI units.

Leave it to the frenchies to do something moronic and then scrap it after realizing it.

[RobinStarwing]

If we really want to slow the Earth's rotation down to make more time in the day...I think we need to do one of three things to slow a ball of rock rotating at roughly 1000 miles/hour .

1) Move the Earth close enough to the Sun to tidal lock the planet.

2) The entire Human population runs really fast the opposite way of the Earth's rotation.

3) Hit the Earth with a glancing blow with a really big asteroid opposite of the Earth's rotation.