Seeking housing. Any tips?

[Loyal]

Recent events have led me to believe it's finally time for me to move out in the world. Granted, I still have a fair bit of schooling to get through, and I don't exactly have the networking to just pick up and start a new life somewhere, so I'm not gonna move halfway across the country or anything. Right now I'm just looking for a local roommate(s), something affordable and sufficiently close to where everything important in my life is.

However, I've never actually done this before, so I have no idea what I'm really doing. Right now I'm keeping my eyes on Craigslist and a particular subreddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/bostonhousing), and already a few promising options have shown up. But I don't know if there are more options I could be using to search for housing, and I don't exactly know the "etiquitte" for handling these sorts of interactions in such a way that won't immediately get me rejected from consideration.

So, dear friends, acquaintances, and miscellaneous: any advice?

[Magus]

Well if you are in college you can also go to your local university and look at the bulletin boards, undoubtedly you'll find a ton of postings on there from local owners renting out houses. Usually they take care of finding you roommates.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Live in student areas- they are the cheapest, you will have fellow students as flatmates, they will be catered to your needs- (getting hard out boozed and having sweet parties)- and will often have lots of shift work employment for fitting in schools.

[Nikose Tyris]

It is generally considered that your housing and your bills shouldn't total more than 30% of your income; what with you being a student and probably not working full-time, we can throw THAT idea right out the window though.

Generally, I'd suggest two very important things; first, watch for all-inclusive places where the water, electric, heat, etc is covered by not-you. Those bills vary and can spike ridiculously, even with careful planning. (If you're not going all inclusive, you could probably safely budget about $80 for heat in the winter, $30 otherwise; $150 for electric a month; $120 for water and waste every 6 months.)

Second, how much can you comfortably afford? My general rule (with full-time pay at minimum wage in Canada) being $650 the maximum I would pay for a 1 bedroom apartment. $650 represents about ~40% of an entry level person's wages (before tax) and keeps your household costs low enough that banks still feel REASONABLY safe lending to you in a pinch (Which as a student would be very important). (Ideally you'll pay no more than $450, which puts your income level at a point where if you could find full-time employment easily, you could open a much lower interest bank loan than your student loan's rate and do a lump sum payoff on that, dropping your bills. That's a whole other conversation though.)

[Nikose Tyris]

in terms of FINDING places, I recommend browsing Kijiji/craigslist for your local area, and the ettiquette is the same as you'd assume meeting a new lady or fella; you're going to want to be well-kempt and tidy looking, and put your best face forward. Charming and confident, and polite.
Really date ettiquette is pretty much forefront when talking to potential landlords.

Potential Roommates though, same advice but be adaptable. Meeting a guy to hang out and see if you're compatible, it doesn't hurt for the two of you to end up at the bar together and having fun. The point is to see if you can relax together and not feel stiff or awkward.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

As someone who has vetted new roommates I'd say the opposite- if you turn up all clean and tidy you going to get the rent spiked up or be turned down because you look like no fun- assuming you are looking at cheap/student places. Nobody wants to live with some kind of dull ass businessman and if you look like a richo they'll charge you like a richo.

[RickZarber]

It is generally considered that your housing and your bills shouldn't total more than 30% of your income!!?!?!?

I'd like to know just of whom this is true, and how much they actually earn, and where they live. Because I don't think I know anyone like that. Myself, my bills total at least 60% of my income.


I don't have any advice for Loyal, sorry. That bit just tripped me up.

[CABAL49]

Just check how many shootings vs rent. You want to aim somewhere in the middle. That's what I did.

[pochercoaster]

!!?!?!?

I'd like to know just of whom this is true, and how much they actually earn, and where they live. Because I don't think I know anyone like that. Myself, my bills total at least 60% of my income.


I don't have any advice for Loyal, sorry. That bit just tripped me up.

I've heard this bit of advice too but if you're making minimum wage it might be impossible depending on where you live. Up until this year every place I lived was 50% or more of my income, but I kept all my other living expenses very low so I managed alright.

Don't forget to check newspaper listings.

If you get a basement apartment check that you have your own water heater/AC/heat etc, else your upstairs neighbours will control all of that- and if they like to run the dishwasher and washing machine every day you'll be taking cold showers. Also you'll either roast of freeze if they control the heat. In my experience basement apartments tend to be pretty shit actually and rarely up to code, actually, but they might be cheaper than an apartment complex.

Taste the water when viewing apartments. Turn on the taps to see if they work. Look inside the cupboards, see if there's mould anywhere. (DO NOT move into a mouldy dwelling. Even if the landlord says the mould's been taken care of. Just don't.)

Echoing Nik's advice, ask if water or heat is included.

If you're persistent you can find decent furniture second hand (tables, shelves, etc.- I personally wouldn't buy anything cloth second hand because ew.) Check for bed bugs though.

Oh, ask the landlord how they prefer to be paid. Avoid places that say they prefer cash over cheques because most likely they don't give a shit about their tenants and are doing something illegal. Should be obvious but it bears mentioning.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

Here's how I moved 300 km from home.

1. Get depressed
2. Befriend random strangers over the internet
3. Befriend random strangers long enough for them to identify you as a friend
4. Get a job in the area they live in without really knowing where they live
5. Learn that one of those people has recently moved there
6. Crash at their place until you find your own place
7. Regain faith in humanity, love and peace, dude

Always works.

In all seriousness: Don't be afraid to move out. It's generally only half as frightening as those old geezers make you believe. Just do your homework first and it'll work out all right.

[Bells]

before moving out i just suggest preparing to move out. As one that has done so and that experimented the sour side of leaving home and leaving with near strangers, if you can plan ahead, if you can do anything more contemplative than a leap of faith, you'll benefit from it.

Leaving home is certainly a big deal and one you will get a LOT from, but is not something you should ever do on a whim unless you actually have to. If you can plan it, then plan it 6 months in advance on the very least.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

!!?!?!?

I'd like to know just of whom this is true, and how much they actually earn, and where they live. Because I don't think I know anyone like that. Myself, my bills total at least 60% of my income.


I don't have any advice for Loyal, sorry. That bit just tripped me up.

It pays to remember Nikose is rich as fuck.
For us normal people in normal world you get whatever house you can find that you can afford.

I'm amused that Poch pays people in cheques though. Do you send these cheques by telegraph? Or maybe you hail the nearest hansom.
My browser is giving me the "this is not a word" red scribbly line under cheque- that is how 19th century you are.
Make sure the place you are moving has internet so you can pay the rent over the internet like a real person and not like a victorian dandy.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

Cheques is how they do it in America for some reason. No idea why, though. Just set up a standing order at your bank to transfer a sum of money every month and boom. Rent is paid for unless your account doesn't have the richies on it.

As a rule, though, I don't move into apartments if I can't pay the rent via PayPal. If the house doesn't have a PayPal donate button at the door you know it's a shit place too, so watch out for that.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I don't think I've ever actually seen a cheque. I wouldn't even know what to do with one.

[Bells]

rBI8uCKi2lI

[Professor Smarmiarty]

More like the man who came early.

[Loyal]

Thanks for all the tips, guys. I'm seeing someone about an apartment today and I'll be sure to keep all this in mind while I'm out (except the 30% thing - I'll be thankful to find a ~500/mo place on my 900/mo income). See how it goes.

[Aerozord]

Hey I wanted to see if this was normal or just my area. Pretty much all apartments around here give you free water and heating/gas, that everywhere?

[Bells]

is it free or "free"? Probably just diluted into your rent... i know some buildings do that, but it's usually one bill for the whole building divided over all apartments, which makes it pretty cheap.

If it's an average cost, they could probably just be including the diluted value over your rent and saying it's free cause it sounds way sexier of a sales pitch.

Either way, more important than being free is that you must know if there is a quota of any of it for you to use...

[Nikose Tyris]

It pays to remember Nikose is rich as fuck.
For us normal people in normal world you get whatever house you can find that you can afford.

I'm not rich as fuck, I work the same minimum wage jobs. I just had a healthy inheritance that I put to work for myself so that I could help others.

And living in whatever housing you can afford is brutal advice; the 30% is advice based on banks for calculating if you're in 'too much debt' or spend too much of your income to get any financial assistance. That's why I try and advise people to aim for it.

And no this is not an invitation to debate trusting banks.

I'm amused that Poch pays people in cheques though. Do you send these cheques by telegraph? Or maybe you hail the nearest hansom.

Checks/Cheques are a very easy way to keep track of where your money went; it functions as it's own rent receipt, so you don't get screwed at years end by some scumsucker landlord who rents you an apartment for $600 a month all inclusive, then cuts you an end of year rent receipt for $400/month to claim on your taxes and tells you the rest went to "paying utilities so you can't claim that".

Cash is easy but has no security; Checks are safer than cash but will cost you $2 for a checkbook; and E-Transfers are safest and give a secure paper trail, confirmation number of payment, etc. but hit you with a $1.50 fee for every transfer, depending on your bank and account type. I only accept checks and E-Transfers, and I have them send $1.50 less to cover their fee.

[Flarecobra]

Out in California, the apartment complex I lived in had it in as part of the rent. Where I am now is free though.

[Aerozord]

is it free or "free"? Probably just diluted into your rent... i know some buildings do that, but it's usually one bill for the whole building divided over all apartments, which makes it pretty cheap.

If it's an average cost, they could probably just be including the diluted value over your rent and saying it's free cause it sounds way sexier of a sales pitch.

Either way, more important than being free is that you must know if there is a quota of any of it for you to use...

You still pay sewage, but the water itself is completely free regardless of how much you use.

[Nikose Tyris]

Followup: Echoing Poch, hunting Craigslist/Kijiji/Driving around in a truck in the spring/late summer, you can find half-decent furniture for free to furnish anything you need.

I've obtained three sofa's this way, and yes that does break the very logical cloth rule but I rented a steam cleaner and went to town on them. :/

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I'm not rich as fuck, I work the same minimum wage jobs. I just had a healthy inheritance that I put to work for myself so that I could help others.

And living in whatever housing you can afford is brutal advice; the 30% is advice based on banks for calculating if you're in 'too much debt' or spend too much of your income to get any financial assistance. That's why I try and advise people to aim for it.

And no this is not an invitation to debate trusting banks.
Oh thank you for your magical words of advice. All of us paying far more than that are just stupid and throwing our money away for no real reason. Thank god you are here to tell us off for paying too much.
If you are working minimum wage then either you live in an area of exceptionally low rents or you are paying 40-60% and there ain't much you can do about it. Even living in the most shitty hovel will cost you that much- this is just how much rents are.
And man you got like investments and a family business- that is like hovercar rich.



Checks/Cheques are a very easy way to keep track of where your money went; it functions as it's own rent receipt, so you don't get screwed at years end by some scumsucker landlord who rents you an apartment for $600 a month all inclusive, then cuts you an end of year rent receipt for $400/month to claim on your taxes and tells you the rest went to "paying utilities so you can't claim that".

Cash is easy but has no security; Checks are safer than cash but will cost you $2 for a checkbook; and E-Transfers are safest and give a secure paper trail, confirmation number of payment, etc. but hit you with a $1.50 fee for every transfer, depending on your bank and account type. I only accept checks and E-Transfers, and I have them send $1.50 less to cover their fee.

What kind of ridiculous bank charges for E-transfers. America totally is the 1980s. I have paid for 99% of everything I get by either E-transfer or some form of card and haven't paid a transaction or bank fee in my life. Change your bank because whoever you are with are terrible.
Also doing all your own taxes- that's another sign of the 1980s.

[Nikose Tyris]

Oh thank you for your magical words of advice. All of us paying far more than that are just stupid and throwing our money away for no real reason. Thank god you are here to tell us off for paying too much.
If you are working minimum wage then either you live in an area of exceptionally low rents or you are paying 40-60% and there ain't much you can do about it. Even living in the most shitty hovel will cost you that much- this is just how much rents are.
And man you got like investments and a family business- that is like hovercar rich.

Woah hey hostile much?
I'm not saying you're stupid, and I'm not saying you're throwing your money away. And yeah I think I've explained a few times lately that minimum wage and finding a place for $600 is about 40% of your income, and that would still be an excellent find and a great place to live.

And man I can't even afford a car right now. I never said I was following those rules myself; I'm already steppin' on toes to keep everything lined up for the next 5 years, or else this whole house of cards comes crashing down. My goal is to bring down housing costs in the area for rentals to make them more feasible, fuck hovercar rich. Have you seen my fuckin' eyes? I'd crash it straight away.

[CABAL49]

I don't think I've ever actually seen a cheque. I wouldn't even know what to do with one.

The only time I saw it spelled Cheque was in the UK. I haven't seen seen a check since 2005. My grandmother doesn't even use them anymore and she lived through the Great Depression. She uses a debit/credit card like the rest of civilization.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Man I kind of want to send people cheques now. I reckon I can not pay heaps of my bills because like I'll send them a cheque and they won't know want to do with it but I've technically paid them.

[pochercoaster]

The last few places I lived didn't have electronic payments set up. My current place does but it doesn't work so I still use cheques. You're from New Zealand, I thought you'd spell cheque the British way? Huh.

Canadian banks LOOOOVE fees. I had to pay $13 a month just to have unlimited debit transactions on my bank card and that is fairly standard for Canadian banks. I probably should have used a credit union when I lived there.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Isn't cheque the british spelling? That's how I was taught to spell it and we spell everything else british.

[pochercoaster]

That's what I meant- which is why I thought it was weird you would comment on its spelling, since its the one you use.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I didn't! Cabal misinterpreted my post in that I've never seen a physical cheque for saying I haven't seen it spelt cheque. Well I think that's what happen.

Also all your banks sound awful! They already make billions stealing your money without bullshit fees. That's just pissing on you after they beaten you up to steal your money just because they can.

[mauve]

I use checks for doctors visit co-pays and for paying bills in the mail. I generally don't pay bills online and I live in the middle of nowhere so most of my bills aren't the kind where I can walk down to the nearest office and pay in person.

[Bells]

Man I kind of want to send people cheques now. I reckon I can not pay heaps of my bills because like I'll send them a cheque and they won't know want to do with it but I've technically paid them.

Buy 2 packs of gum and a beer and pay with a cheque, the look on their faces will leave in your mind forever.

[Aerozord]

I haven't seen seen a check since 2005. My grandmother doesn't even use them anymore and she lived through the Great Depression. She uses a debit/credit card like the rest of civilization.

After working retail I have learned alot of people still use checks. Mostly the elderly however.

You'd also be surprised how many people still perform all transactions in cash. I saw someone pay for a 1600 dollar TV in cash.

Though the one I dont get is debit cards (not those debit credit cards straight debit) since every transaction robs you of a few bucks

[Magus]

You mean prepaid debit cards? They're a gigantic scam, yeah. Actual debit cards through a bank are not, though...well, my bank. On the other hand I know these ones are referred to as "check cards" so I'm guessing they might not actually be debit in the sense you are getting at?

[Nikose Tyris]

You mean prepaid debit cards? They're a gigantic scam, yeah. Actual debit cards through a bank are not, though...well, my bank. On the other hand I know these ones are referred to as "check cards" so I'm guessing they might not actually be debit in the sense you are getting at?

Magus has the right of it.

[Aerozord]

You mean prepaid debit cards? They're a gigantic scam, yeah. Actual debit cards through a bank are not, though...well, my bank. On the other hand I know these ones are referred to as "check cards" so I'm guessing they might not actually be debit in the sense you are getting at?

around here we call them debit/credit cards, or now just debit card which gets confusing. Its a debit card that can be used like a credit card. When used as a credit card they deduct directly from the checking account.

However when you use them as a debit card, or use an ordinary debit card, it charges a transfer fee. When you use a debit card to withdraw from your bank it transacts like normal. However when you use it say, at a store, the money is withdrawn from the store and then reimbursed by your bank. I am not sure where the fee comes from though. Probably from the bank to discourage you using other systems since credit card companies charge stores to use their services and the store just pays it for the customer.

[Magus]

around here we call them debit/credit cards, or now just debit card which gets confusing. Its a debit card that can be used like a credit card. When used as a credit card they deduct directly from the checking account.

However when you use them as a debit card, or use an ordinary debit card, it charges a transfer fee. When you use a debit card to withdraw from your bank it transacts like normal. However when you use it say, at a store, the money is withdrawn from the store and then reimbursed by your bank. I am not sure where the fee comes from though. Probably from the bank to discourage you using other systems since credit card companies charge stores to use their services and the store just pays it for the customer.

Well I know my bank has a higher interest rate if you make sure you use credit instead of debit at least 20 times a month because the bank gets paid a small fee by the store for electronic transactions, but I don't think I've ever actually gotten charged any fees even when using debit by any bank I've used. What was the bank you were using? I should probably check mine out just to make sure there aren't debit fees...

EDIT: Was it Bank of America (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204528204577011813902843218.html)?

Like essentially I thought it was just retailers getting hit with the fees, not consumers.

ANOTHER EDIT: Like in general I think you are just better off using the credit option regardless of the reasons why, anyway, since presumably using debit too much can cause there to be "holds" on your accounts, or at least that is the warning on various things I have bought from like gas station pumps. So for whatever reason people should be using the credit option on their check cards.

[pochercoaster]

IDK what everyone's nationality in this thread is but it's worth noting there are a few differences between American and Canadian debit and credit cards. Debit transactions with Canadian bank cards are instantaneous (IIRC Canada is the #1 country in the world for debit/Interac usage) and debit cards are not combined with credit cards, at least not commonly- it's not something I ever saw as a cashier. Also entering your PIN to pay for something isn't as common in the US as it in Canada which is a little annoying because it's easier to just enter my PIN than sign a receipt and pull out ID whenever I want to buy something.

Edit: okay that wasn't very clear. But if I understand right the difference is Canada uses Interac to communicate between financial institutions and America uses... Credit companies? That's why transactions don't poist instantaneously.

America, your banking shit is weird.

[CABAL49]

Banking in Germany was super easy. You would hand them your card, then they would hand it back and say cash only. You would then walk to the atm and withdraw the proper amount. My bank account was through Deutsche Bank, of which there was only on in Tübingen. So I had to walk to that one to avoid withdraw fees.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

IDK what everyone's nationality in this thread is but it's worth noting there are a few differences between American and Canadian debit and credit cards. Debit transactions with Canadian bank cards are instantaneous (IIRC Canada is the #1 country in the world for debit/Interac usage) and debit cards are not combined with credit cards, at least not commonly- it's not something I ever saw as a cashier. Also entering your PIN to pay for something isn't as common in the US as it in Canada which is a little annoying because it's easier to just enter my PIN than sign a receipt and pull out ID whenever I want to buy something.

Edit: okay that wasn't very clear. But if I understand right the difference is Canada uses Interac to communicate between financial institutions and America uses... Credit companies? That's why transactions don't poist instantaneously.

America, your banking shit is weird.

NZ has to be up there- I remember being in the middle of a forest, about an hour from the nearest town, no phone reception, small van selling icecreams and drinks and they had an EFTPOS (our debit card thingy) machine simply because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to sell anything (you did have to hold it up in the air and wave it around to try and catch a signal though).
Even like 20c at the dairy you chuck on card because why not.

Britain is getting better- like 95% of the shops have debit card machines and you don't have to pay shit but like if you're in a small village or something you might have to pay cash.

Also does anyone still sign for cards anymore? That seems hilariously insecure and so much easier to just pin machine everything. That's what I mean by paying with card- having a pin machine. If you don't have one you ain't paying by card, you are indulging in some arcane 80s magic.
Man get with the times Ameruikah.


Banking in Germany was super easy. You would hand them your card, then they would hand it back and say cash only. You would then walk to the atm and withdraw the proper amount. My bank account was through Deutsche Bank, of which there was only on in Tübingen. So I had to walk to that one to avoid withdraw fees.
Man that's bullshit too. In Britain you can use any ATM regardless of which bank you are with to withdraw money and it don't cost you nothing.

[rpgdemon]

I have no idea what Pocheros is talking about: I have a debit card, which can be run as debit, has me enter my PIN, and directly takes money from my bank to pay people, and does not take more money than that.

I also have a credit card which I use more often (As it has fraud protection and stuff so that if it does get compromised, I'm not paying it), which people don't like to take because it is Discover and costs them more. For me, however, I get free stuff! For example, there was a period where they were emailing me constantly, and my diet consisted of the food of the places which they would pay me to eat at. $10 off Texas Road House, $8 off some italian place.

...$2 off of Burger King.