I feel so trapped

[Aerozord]

I don't expect any good to come of this. I'm just using the forum as, well a forum for me to vent about whats spiraled my depression worse than normal. Most other outlets people that know me in real life see and I'd rather not bother them with such things. I just thought the act of writing it out like this might help. I do not expect solutions, nor am I asking for any. Sure if it was as simple as asking then I wouldn't have much of an issue to start with.

At the moment my life is thus. I live at home, and its not the most healthy environment. I'm insulted, belittled, and have to deal with an unhealthy amount of alcohol. Actual threats against me are rare as long as I dont defend myself against any verbal abuse and continue to not slight anyone. Its not all bad, I've dealt with far worse when I was far younger.

I do have a job, its horrible and I can barely maintain it. If I call in sick one more time I'm fired for example. Typically I wake up, go to work, come home at around 11:30pm then I relax for abit before I need to go to bed again. I make around 800 a month, 500 of which goes to paying off my loans. My student loans are especially bad, rest is for my car which I needed after my last one got t-boned. To this day I think its a cruel twist of fate my car was smashed but I didn't even get a bruise.

The rest goes to cellphone, insurance, gas, ect. I get abit of spending money but put most into my savings in case I lose my job. So I still try to be very frugal. I almost never leave the house, my family gives me crackers so I have something to eat at lunch. I've had to ration my snacks lately though, down to one cereal bar.

Enduring this in and of itself isn't so bad. As I said I used to deal with alot worse, the difference is back then I still had hope. I was told I was smart, gifted, that I could do something with my life. So I endured life, "today was horrible but someday it will get better." This was my mantra. Reality doesn't work like that.

I can't succeed in college, even if I did I'd be further in debt and its unlikely I'd get a job. Unskilled as I am my paltry pay and hours is the best I can hope for. However even working this job for 10 years I will still be in debt and too poor to support myself. I do not qualify for any government aid. My family will not assist me beyond not abandoning me in the street. My poor health even disqualifies me from selling my life to the military. Even too much of a coward to put myself out of my misery or take risks where thats likely. And as tempting as it is I can't bring myself to commit crime or even dull myself with narcotics.

There is just no way out of this. There is no way this will ever get better. All I can do is put up with it and continue to pray that my life will be short. Though I'm not so lucky, I probably have a good 40 years to suffer.

This is not a cry for attention, or help, and I am sorry if this is a downer. Writing all this is just my way of trying to come to terms with my reality. I wonder if I'd have been better if I accepted this sooner. Was I better naive when I thought I could be happy one day, or did trying to improve my life only make it harder in the long run. I think this was better. Even without my debt I couldn't support myself. Atleast this way I had some time where I could atleast imagine a better life.

[Osterbaum]

Aero, I write this without a hint of sarcasm, or irony. I am not writing what I write to belittle your problems for they are indeed very real.

But it sounds like (apart from the family stuff) that you are suffering from a condition called capitalism. Now this all might seem like propaganda coming from me, but I assure I am being sincere and trying to be helpful to the best of my ability.

Different levels of depression are actually quite common amongst (anti-capitalist) political activists. The way people that I know or have heard of try and deal with it is by organizing together with others and together trying to better their condition at work or elsewhere. For work the IWW (http://www.iww.org/) is a union to check out, I know they have the most members in the US.

[tacticslion]

I don't expect any good to come of this. I'm just using the forum as, well a forum for me to vent about whats spiraled my depression worse than normal. Most other outlets people that know me in real life see and I'd rather not bother them with such things. I just thought the act of writing it out like this might help. I do not expect solutions, nor am I asking for any. Sure if it was as simple as asking then I wouldn't have much of an issue to start with.

This is an entirely viable thing to do. I'm glad you are!

I do not want to make things worse, but please permit me to respond.

At the moment my life is thus. I live at home, and its not the most healthy environment. I'm insulted, belittled, and have to deal with an unhealthy amount of alcohol. Actual threats against me are rare as long as I dont defend myself against any verbal abuse and continue to not slight anyone. Its not all bad, I've dealt with far worse when I was far younger.

I do have a job, its horrible and I can barely maintain it. If I call in sick one more time I'm fired for example. Typically I wake up, go to work, come home at around 11:30pm then I relax for abit before I need to go to bed again. I make around 800 a month, 500 of which goes to paying off my loans. My student loans are especially bad, rest is for my car which I needed after my last one got t-boned. To this day I think its a cruel twist of fate my car was smashed but I didn't even get a bruise.

The rest goes to cellphone, insurance, gas, ect. I get abit of spending money but put most into my savings in case I lose my job. So I still try to be very frugal. I almost never leave the house, my family gives me crackers so I have something to eat at lunch. I've had to ration my snacks lately though, down to one cereal bar.

This is terrible. I'm so sorry.

Enduring this in and of itself isn't so bad. As I said I used to deal with alot worse, the difference is back then I still had hope. I was told I was smart, gifted, that I could do something with my life. So I endured life, "today was horrible but someday it will get better." This was my mantra. Reality doesn't work like that.

Reality doesn't usually just miraculously get better, no. But hope is incredibly important. Hope that it might get better.

I can't succeed in college, even if I did I'd be further in debt and its unlikely I'd get a job. Unskilled as I am my paltry pay and hours is the best I can hope for. However even working this job for 10 years I will still be in debt and too poor to support myself. I do not qualify for any government aid. My family will not assist me beyond not abandoning me in the street. My poor health even disqualifies me from selling my life to the military.

As an unskilled laborer, you may not qualify for government aid, but you might find several organizations within your community that can assist you. Osterbaum noted a socio-political organization. There are probably others, too.

My first recommendation is, of course, various religious groups: find a church, a charity organization, those sorts of things. By "charity" I don't mean, "we hand out clothes and soup to people with low financial income", though that might be great, too, but rather there are a whole slew of different organizations out there which can help with different elements.

One thing that my local church does, for instance, is hold classes, for free, that help teach people to get control of financial distress like you seem to be suffering from. They work with you in order to help you lower your debt, and create workable long-term solutions. See if you can find something like that in your local area. If you can't, but you have access to a cell phone, or, heck, even email, and you're somewhere in the 'States, try contacting my church (http://www.hopeinocala.com/#/home/contact) - it's unlikely that they'll be able to help you directly, but if you explain yourself, they may be able to recommend someone in your area. We have a surprising amount of connections around the world here, I've found.

Even too much of a coward to put myself out of my misery or take risks where thats likely.

This is not cowardice. This is "self-preservation" and it's the right thing.

Suicide is not the correct answer. It's a permanent end to a temporary problem. And rest assured, no matter how bad it seems, or how long-running it appears, your problem is, ultimately, temporary.

And as tempting as it is I can't bring myself to commit crime or even dull myself with narcotics.

These are both good things, Aero. This means that you do, ultimately, want to be yourself, and you have the strong ethical underpinnings to help you do that. Crime isn't a solution, and it's not something you should resort to.

There is just no way out of this. There is no way this will ever get better. All I can do is put up with it and continue to pray that my life will be short. Though I'm not so lucky, I probably have a good 40 years to suffer.

The first two things are not true at all. The third is misplaced, and the fourth is... I don't know, but not good.

There is a way. Things can get better.

Look, I'm guessing you're, what? 20? 30? Somewhere around there?

You're life has so much potential at this age. You may not ever realize all of it. That's okay. You may go through emotional crises. That's painful... but okay. The important thing is to keep living, keep breathing, and recognize that things will, in the end, get better.

This is not a cry for attention, or help, and I am sorry if this is a downer. Writing all this is just my way of trying to come to terms with my reality. I wonder if I'd have been better if I accepted this sooner. Was I better naive when I thought I could be happy one day, or did trying to improve my life only make it harder in the long run. I think this was better. Even without my debt I couldn't support myself. Atleast this way I had some time where I could atleast imagine a better life.

I've linked this before, and shall do so again. It Gets Better (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfQJ_V9K3EM). The message there is extremely important - not just about bullying, but the general message that, ultimately, life gets better. Listen to all those people who lost friends, family, or similar - life is important, and it's worth living.

But find a community. Find people who can and will support you - financial support is good, of course, but the most important thing is to find a non-toxic environment to immerse yourself in, which you are currently lacking.

As I noted before, I love my local church. The people there are awesome. If I have something wrong, I can turn to them, and they can grant me emotional support that I need. If you PM me, I can look into your local area to see if you've got anything similar there.

Hear me: I say this understanding that you might not be a believer. That's fine. Although I'd love it if you became one, this isn't an attempt to make you so - it's an attempt to help you find a community that will help you without abuse, which, regardless of where you find it, is extremely important.

And, to be clear, this isn't a bother, dude. You're an acquaintance, who needed to vent. Maybe you're fine now. If so, awesome. If not, here are a few things that might help.

But hope is always better. And hope, ultimately, is the correct response.

God bless you, man.

[Aerozord]

Work hasn't given me much time to reply to this, part of the problem. You also get more death threats than you'd think working retail. Now I admit I have a very bleak view of life. While it does "get better" better doesn't mean good. I dont have to deal with physical abuse, actual concerns about starving, and do get my entertainment. But an important thing to remember about psychology is a lack of abuse does not equate to proper treatment. Life does not get better than this, there is just no possible way it could. I've reached the apex of my quality of life and thats what depresses me the most.

I have attempted to lessen it though. I focus on self improvement. Expanding my skill set for example, working on various projects. Sadly the futility of it does still sadden me. No matter how many things I become competent in I do not have formal training to prove that I am, nor am I talented enough to succeed at more esoteric pursuits such as my writing or acting.

I guess ultimately I'm just trying to keep myself sufficiently distracted so I dont have time to think about it.

[Jagos]

Ever thought about taking some of that time and putting it to something new?

Not to belittle you or anything, but how about learning modeling in TF2 or something of that nature?

If you're trying to be distracted, you can learn something that helps you bring in new income. It's something that I'm learning to get out of the problem that Osterbaum has been talking about.

And trust me, I know about retail... It's amazing what happens when you have people get mad at you for 40 different things of which none of them are your fault.
but honestly, if it's writing you want to do, that can be done for free on some self sufficient sites to try to work some extra income on the side.

Just don't give up. There are ways to pick yourself up.

[Osterbaum]

Working with other people for their benefit and yours can be a very uplifting experience. Organizing together to fight for the good of everyone involved can be quite rewarding.

[Fifthfiend]

Gonna try and keep this short cause I'm tryin to keep outta the npfs a bit, but having seen this I do wanna say, Aerozord:

The place you're at sucks, but one of the things that makes it suck is how there's a lot of things and a lot of people who've told you, and who'll tell you, that you suck for being in that place.

And hearing that so much in so many ways makes you believe it, but the shit you're under isn't about you. And you believing the shit you're under is about you is, also, another thing that isn't about you, but is actually about the people who tell you that it is.

And I mean - my saying that won't make any of the people treating you like it is that way stop treating you like that, but hopefully it lets you know a little bit that that shit is about them, and not you.

I can't help you with the shit you're under, cause i'm kinda too much under my own, but I can tell you that - whatever anybody else tells you - the shit you're under isn't some shit that you are.

And maybe one more thing I can do is, I know you're outta hope these days, so I'll hope a little bit for you. And maybe that'll help.

[Overcast]

I don't particularly like my time in the military but I can say this much for it.

Its easy, its stable, and for the most part the presences around you are incredibly liquid. Now I am not usually the kind of person who would suggest a military movement, like I said I'm not really all that happy being in it because I don't have a lot of control over my own life, but what it has gifted me with is time to prepare for the real world when I really didn't have anything going my way. I've built up a passable egg of money for rough times, started a retirement fund, have something dumb but appreciated to tack on a resume.

The military separates you from reality. It has you living in an alternate one where people pay for your healthcare, your home, your food. With effort you can put just about all your money into saving for the future, or paying off debts.

I'm not saying join the Marines or Army, but like the Coast Guard is technically the military, they get paid just as much as all the other branches and don't take nearly as much risks, they aren't required to have nearly the same physical standards, and get just about as much job training as the Navy without having to go stare at Korea at a moment's notice.

It's a thought, and it'll cost you about four years of your life but it could be a way to reset the balance on your current state and walk back into the real world with what you know now.

[tacticslion]

Take Fifthfiend's post, and pretend it contains more words, less profanity and clarity, and probably more Christian-centric things. That's pretty much what I would've written.

Hope is really hard to come by. You're not feeling it right now. That's okay. But you can get it back. A community to help and support you is a good thing. It's what people are for.

Overcast's suggestion isn't a terrible one - especially the Lifeguard part.

Peace to you, and you're in my prayers.

[Aerozord]

I cant join the military, poor health. Thats one reason I get so overly defensive about healthcare. I know all too well what its like to live with medical problems just minor enough to avoid any actual aid but still bad enough to greatly reduce your quality of life.

Which kind of brings up a new issue. I hear my work is changing its policy, if you call off more than three times in a 6 month period for any reason you are fired. I've had to call off more than twice that due to illness (no they dont excuse those). So I better find something else before winter hits. No way I can make it through that with only three days of absence.

[Death by Stabbing]

Things pretty much suck all around. I'm living with my parents, I have no job, and my check engine light has been on for months (I use the Homer Simpson method where if I cover it up with electrical tape then it is fixed). I am getting money from where I can but it really isn't enough to meet my needs. Student loans are a real killer. Even after consolidation I'm still paying several hundred dollars a month. You know when I haven't deferred payments which has happened way too much.

So what I'm trying to say is you aren't alone. Lots of people are in the same boat. So we should just keep trying, right? I mean something has to break our (and everyone who is in this position's) way at some point.

[Osterbaum]

Which kind of brings up a new issue. I hear my work is changing its policy, if you call off more than three times in a 6 month period for any reason you are fired. I've had to call off more than twice that due to illness (no they dont excuse those). So I better find something else before winter hits. No way I can make it through that with only three days of absence.
Organizing with others in your workplace or same branch of work often delivers results.

[Death by Stabbing]

Organizing with others in your workplace or same branch of work often delivers results.

I did not have that experience when I was working. If they aren't afraid of you then it won't matter. We weren't allowed to form anything even close to a union. If we did we would be fired. At least that's what we were all threatened with. Our boss had absolute power and could say anything he wanted. For instance he kept at me that I was late. I wasn't late at all but he needed to look like he was doing some kind of boss work sometimes. I wouldn't have put it past him to "modify" records if I had decided to press the issue with his boss.

[Osterbaum]

And that's why you organize! The only time workers ever made gains and bettered their conditions is by fighting for them, together. Your employer can threaten you and they will of course use any means at their disposal to discourage their workers from organizing (https://libcom.org/organise/workplace). Because they are afraid of the results. So organizing is what we should do, what we must do if we are to ever take back control over our own lives and achieve a just workplace.

[Fifthfiend]

I cant join the military, poor health. Thats one reason I get so overly defensive about healthcare. I know all too well what its like to live with medical problems just minor enough to avoid any actual aid but still bad enough to greatly reduce your quality of life.

Which kind of brings up a new issue. I hear my work is changing its policy, if you call off more than three times in a 6 month period for any reason you are fired. I've had to call off more than twice that due to illness (no they dont excuse those). So I better find something else before winter hits. No way I can make it through that with only three days of absence.

Sorry to hear that, that's a really incredibly shitty policy.

You def. should look around at any other options that are available.

Of course like.... part of what makes a situation like yours a trap is the knowledge that there's no given that any way you try to improve your situation is gonna make it any better, or even not make it worse.

And then like... the people around you who're trapping you in that situation will also react to you trying to get yourself out of it by sabotaging you in all kinds of ways that they won't even recognize and absolutely won't admit are sabotage, because some part of their own worldview is based on you being in and staying in that place they have you at.

None of which i'm saying to cut you down or to psych you out, but like...

The same way as you posted this thread to vent and let some of these things out, I'm saying some of this stuff to you because when you're able to recognize that these are the obstacles you're going to face in trying to improve your situation, you can prepare yourself for them and recognize them for what they are, and maybe armor yourself a little bit against them.

There's lots of shitty work environments that involve shitty people, but there's also lots of work environments that aren't shitty, or aren't as shitty as whichever one you're currently at, and... you know, based on what I'm hearing, another work environment definitely isn't too likely to be MORE shitty than the one you're currently at.

On the topic of one thing you mentioned:

Most other outlets people that know me in real life see and I'd rather not bother them with such things.

You should probably consider whether there's anyone IRL you can reach out to about any of this.

Which, you know, don't listen too much to me cause you know a whole lot better than anyone else whether that's actually a reasonable thing to do.

But like... one thing about being someone who's dealt with stuff like

At the moment my life is thus. I live at home, and its not the most healthy environment. I'm insulted, belittled, and have to deal with an unhealthy amount of alcohol. Actual threats against me are rare as long as I dont defend myself against any verbal abuse and continue to not slight anyone. Its not all bad, I've dealt with far worse when I was far younger.


Is that you've been taught in a lot of ways that you 1. can't and... more importantly really 2. aren't supposed to, or even more like... aren't allowed to reach out to other people, and that's part of the trap that you've been put in.

It can still go bad cause your perceptions of who to reach out to and how to reach out to them are also pretty skewed, and you know, there's just legitimately crappy people to reach out to.

But there are people who'll help you when you need it, and odds are you know at least one person who'll hear you out and help you - like, actually for-realsies help you - and like... if you reach out to one person and that didn't work, you need to recognize that it wasn't about you, it was just like... part of the process of finding the person / people who will help you.

Anyway. I hope you're able to get something out of any/all of that, but if not then just, you know, I hope you continue to feel able to vent about it here and that doing that is helpful for you.

Also I noticed you posted up a thread of some of your creative writing, I hope you're getting some pleasure out of that and that it's a bit of an escape from all of this other shit.

[Aerozord]

When I do talk to family about my depression I get "if you are depressed than you need to be on medication". They literally cannot comprehend that someone can be unhappy with their life (no matter what that life is) unless they have a chemical imbalance. Yes I know this is stupid for many many reasons, I tried to explain it to them but they dont understand.

Friends, better but you eventually just go around in circles. Plus alot of my friends aren't all that chipper either. They dont have my crushing debt but they barely have work.

I have tried looking for work but the few places hiring don't give me enough hours. I need to make atleast 500 a month to cover my loan payments, car, ect.

And that's why you organize! The only time workers ever made gains and bettered their conditions is by fighting for them, together. Your employer can threaten you and they will of course use any means at their disposal to discourage their workers from organizing (https://libcom.org/organise/workplace). Because they are afraid of the results. So organizing is what we should do, what we must do if we are to ever take back control over our own lives and achieve a just workplace.

Many things prevent that, even if a strike crippled a store and somehow no one new wanted to work there, this is a multi-national company handing down these decisions. They see stores opening and closing daily. Their labor force is in the millions. The scale would need to be so massive it will never work.

Remember this new policy is to make it easier to fire people. They are actively trying to get rid of people. You cant threaten them with quitting, they want you gone so they can hire someone new at minimum wage with no benefits. All a strike would do is save them the trouble

[Jagos]

You might find this helpful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPwlunKzxnI

Maybe you and your friends could get together and learn a new trade on the side with a little assistance. If you want, I could look up ways to start a co-op and maybe that could help you out of your funk and learn some new skills.

[Osterbaum]

Many things prevent that, even if a strike crippled a store and somehow no one new wanted to work there, this is a multi-national company handing down these decisions. They see stores opening and closing daily. Their labor force is in the millions. The scale would need to be so massive it will never work.

Remember this new policy is to make it easier to fire people. They are actively trying to get rid of people. You cant threaten them with quitting, they want you gone so they can hire someone new at minimum wage with no benefits. All a strike would do is save them the trouble
And that is precisely why organizing and resisting is important, to fight shit like that. It's a class war, and the capitalists and bosses are winning it. We either stand up or give up. It's not easy, I know.

[Fifthfiend]

When I do talk to family about my depression I get "if you are depressed than you need to be on medication". They literally cannot comprehend that someone can be unhappy with their life (no matter what that life is) unless they have a chemical imbalance. Yes I know this is stupid for many many reasons, I tried to explain it to them but they dont understand.


Yeah a lot of people are shit to people with problems, because they wanna take you having problems as there being something WRONG WITH YOU. Because if it's something wrong with you then they don't have to consider that there could be anything wrong with the way they're treating you.

As with a lot of things, there's even a name for it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error)

Not that your issues even don't have some chemical component it's just that people love to switch off any and all thinking at that point instead of considering that your chemical imbalance could have anything to do with them treating you like shit.

Friends, better but you eventually just go around in circles. Plus alot of my friends aren't all that chipper either. They dont have my crushing debt but they barely have work.


Yeah it's hard when the people around you are stuck in the same sorts of shitty situation you're in.

[Aerozord]

And that is precisely why organizing and resisting is important, to fight shit like that. It's a class war, and the capitalists and bosses are winning it. We either stand up or give up. It's not easy, I know.

I did stop putting up with their crap. I called my bosses out on them giving unrealistic work load, unclear direction, and having me pick up the slack of other people. Now I'm fired so... atleast I dont have to work now....

[Jagos]

... Please tell me you have something else in mind here...

[Aerozord]

In mind? Always, but this job was a last resort option to begin with. If I could get a job elsewhere I would have done so.

On the plus side I always prepare and have have about a years worth in savings if I go into full on financial survival mode, a good 6 months if I live how I have been. Longer with unemployment. So atleast there is no immediate danger and honestly I'm trying very hard to not think about what I am going to do when that money runs out.

[Jagos]

I'm gonna recommend looking into a worker co-op (http://institute.usworker.coop/find-a-worker-coop) or something in your area at least. I know it's a last resort, but damn... You gotta stay on your feet at the very least and maybe a new direction can help.

[Aerozord]

Someone shared this article (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alexander-kjerulf/top-5-reasons-customer-service_b_5145636.html?utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false) with me that sums up my main issue with my job. "The customer is always right" not only forces people like me to put up with alot of abuse but creates alot of resentment to both customers and management. I'm like, you dicks not only force ME to deal with this crap but then blame me because the unreasonable customer was still unhappy because the thing they wanted to buy DOESN'T EVEN EXIST!?

[Osterbaum]

I did stop putting up with their crap. I called my bosses out on them giving unrealistic work load, unclear direction, and having me pick up the slack of other people. Now I'm fired so... atleast I dont have to work now....
Getting involved with a Union in your area, even a mainstream one, might be a good idea! The point in mass organizations is that they can fight for all their members, both collectively and individually. Again, if there's an IWW in your area I'm positive you would receive their help to whatever extent they are able to provide. A mainstream union might be less interested in getting involved in the issues of a single worker, but even being a member of one of those would afford you some level of job security.

[Aerozord]

Getting involved with a Union in your area, even a mainstream one, might be a good idea! The point in mass organizations is that they can fight for all their members, both collectively and individually. Again, if there's an IWW in your area I'm positive you would receive their help to whatever extent they are able to provide. A mainstream union might be less interested in getting involved in the issues of a single worker, but even being a member of one of those would afford you some level of job security.

Unions are regulated on a state level so not sure if this is true everywhere, but thats not really how they work here. Different unions have different rules but most require you to get hired into the union. In many ways its one of those, you gotta know a guy, kind of situations.

[Osterbaum]

Which is one of the many reasons why so called "business unions" are bullshit. They, or rather their leadership, care more about maintaining their position than winning any real gains for their membership. That's why 9 times out of 10 I'd recomend a revolutionary union. Like the IWW!

I really wish I could be of more help to you. Hell, if I lived in those parts of the world I'd come down there and protest/picket/whatever with you. But as it happens we're separated by quite a distance.

[Fifthfiend]

I did stop putting up with their crap. I called my bosses out on them giving unrealistic work load, unclear direction, and having me pick up the slack of other people. Now I'm fired so... atleast I dont have to work now....

Sorry you lost your job Aero, it sucks that happened.

Hopefully getting out of there will free you up to find something that isn't as shitty.

How are you doing/feeling? all right? shitty?

What's your family's reaction like, are they getting on your case about it?

I hope you continue to feel like you can talk about these problems openly here in this thread.

So atleast there is no immediate danger and honestly I'm trying very hard to not think about what I am going to do when that money runs out.


That's good, and sometimes a thing like this can work out okay, in that the bad thing you're worrying about turns out to be not all that bad and can free you up to finally move on to something better.

Of course that can be pretty hard to do, especially when you've still got a looming anxiety point up ahead of you like what you mentioned about money. But it certainly can work out for the best.

Just, you know, focus on doing what you need to do to take care of yourself, and again - if you feel all right doing it - try to let out some of the anxieties here.

Someone shared this article (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alexander-kjerulf/top-5-reasons-customer-service_b_5145636.html?utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false) with me that sums up my main issue with my job. "The customer is always right" not only forces people like me to put up with alot of abuse but creates alot of resentment to both customers and management. I'm like, you dicks not only force ME to deal with this crap but then blame me because the unreasonable customer was still unhappy because the thing they wanted to buy DOESN'T EVEN EXIST!?

It's part of a general disconnect I think happens in a lot of low-level positions between responsibility and authority. Higher ups come up with some broad goal like "every customer has to be happy" or whatever, don't deal with the obvious limitations of that, then tell you it's your responsibility to make that happen even though you have none of the authority that would be required to actually make that happen.

Like you could probably make a lot of angry customers happy if you could just go ahead and give them whatever they wanted for free, but you generally can't actually do that.

So you end up getting in trouble if you don't make the customer happy and getting into trouble if you do the thing that would actually make them happy. It's an easy way for management to make themselves feel good and important at other people's expense.

It's also not a given, and a reason why every sucky job is not necessarily the same as every other sucky job; a manager with a bit more willingness to listen to you make a world of difference in your job being sucky vs outright soulcrushing.

[Jagos]

Getting involved with a Union in your area, even a mainstream one, might be a good idea! The point in mass organizations is that they can fight for all their members, both collectively and individually. Again, if there's an IWW in your area I'm positive you would receive their help to whatever extent they are able to provide. A mainstream union might be less interested in getting involved in the issues of a single worker, but even being a member of one of those would afford you some level of job security.

Oster, America has 7% union penetration and they're dying out. It's not the way to go in the US because we've already crushed them. If he's in a red state (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_states_and_blue_states) he's basically screwed 20 ways from Sunday. The key to a stronger job is going to be through a small business route such as a co-op or something of that nature. The last 50 years of propaganda against unions has basically destroyed that option due to their influence on FDR to be progressive.

The rich basically halted that with the Taft Hartley Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft-Hartley_Act) and the crushing of the Socialists and Communists. That's why the co-op movement is far better if we can get more people to seek out such alternatives for themselves. It can happen once we get something like the Marcora Law along with a Co-Op type setup to a business which allows democracy in a workplace.

[tacticslion]

So, I'mma just say, "Read Fifthfiend's Posts, 'cause he's, like smart and stuff (and always saying things before I can)." as well as just continuing to post only to note that you've still got my support (whatever that means, considering the distance and limited contact we have).

I'm praying for you, sir, and hope things turn around for the better.

[Magus]

So, I basically just got laid off. They've been giving me sporadic hours for two weeks giving me and then yanking away case after case for one reason or another and just when I thought I was finally getting a new case it got yanked again.

My family is much more supportive than Aerozord's but it's just so freaking inane that I went to school for 4 years to be a teacher and I've been reduced to being a TSS who can't even maintain a full time job doing THAT.

Also, being a TSS sucks. It's nice to help the kids but so many of the families are completely uncooperative and unsupportive that it's only slightly better than being a day-to-day substitute as far as the abuse I receive. I can't go into detail due to confidentiality but it's just absolutely a gigantic downer.

I think most of you are college-age or beyond, but if there's anyone out there reading this thinking about getting into teaching or social work, forget it. Just forget it.

[Aerozord]

Well this isn't a pity party so I should post good news when good news is due.

I got another article published (http://hplusmagazine.com/2014/04/28/the-inertia-of-culture/). Its all non-profit and stuff but still nice to see

[Osterbaum]

A capitalist world order, the market or whatever, doesn't really put all that much value on "care work" like teaching. I know there are some hopeful/promising mobilizations by teachers in the US, Chicago particularly comes to mind. I'm sorry if I come off as repetitive, but anti-capitalism and organizing are pretty much the only medicine I've got to offer. I'm not qualified to prescribe anything else.

That's why the co-op movement is far better if we can get more people to seek out such alternatives for themselves. It can happen once we get something like the Marcora Law along with a Co-Op type setup to a business which allows democracy in a workplace.
The limitation with co-ops though is that they still function on profit driven capitalist logic competing on a capitalist market. From a purely personal work satisfaction perspective though I'm sure working in a real co-op, which tend to be less hierarchical than "normal" capitalist firms, is much more fulfilling and pleasant.

[Aerozord]

Ok look I always believe in tolerance to other ideas but one of the things I hated about my job was having to smile and nod at people soap boxing things I am against. So for that I will be blunt

I support capitalism.

I am not one of those people that blames the system just because it hasn't directly benefited me. Capitalism isn't the problem, its society. Its the greed of the middle class that resulted in my crappy job. The rich didn't shop there. The middle class were the entitled dicks that came in there and wanted me to call customer service because they were too lazy. The middle class were the ones treating me like garbage because they knew I'd be fired if I defended myself. The middle class are the ones shopping there and keeping it in business.

Is the middle class the problem? Hell no, I'd be a bigot if I made sweeping generalizations about people based on their income. Thats all anecdotal to point out its not just the 1% that are greedy self serving entitled pricks. Seen plenty of poor that are that too. The problem is society and how customers and employers, both rich and poor, treat the work force as slaves that exist solely to benefit them. It doesn't matter their own job or income level because let me assure you one of the worst types of customers were other Walmart employees

You can argue against this all you want, in fact I encourage it because I believe debate is a good thing. But dont do it in this thread. I posted this thread because I felt like no matter what I did the universe would smack me back down, having people attack my ideology is not helpful to my self-esteem

[Osterbaum]

Fair enough, I'm not here to hijack your thread. Maybe I'll make a thread about capitalism.

[Aerozord]

I have been productive

Got a third article (http://hplusmagazine.com/2014/05/07/the-future-will-be-boring/) published and made a blog (http://petredfox.tumblr.com/) about my recently adopted fox.

Now if I can just generate something that will earn me money

[Fifthfiend]

good shit man glad to hear you got some positive positivities going positive for you

i'm fairly sure the road to getting paid to shit is getting to be friends with people who're friends with people who're friends with people who can pay you some money so idk work on that?

but man i think the mainest main thing to do is to do some shit that makes you happy and then continue to do that and be happy about it and work on doing it better so you can be more happy about doing it

so man i hope you are able to do that

[Kirbyslaboratory]

Just read through some of this topic: Aerozord, you seem like an articulate, well informed, intelligent person - I can't possibly imagine that this world doesn't have a place for someone like you. It's clear to me you have purpose and are doing something with yourself (and certainly have the ability to put it down in writing). Let me say a few things:

I too know someone who works retail (my fiance) and I can corroborate just about damn near everything you've said - people can be awful. I too know what it's like to have poor health discredit you from benefits but be just enough to cause you pain - I have a degree of scoliosis which does cause me chronic back pain, several life threatening allergies, and some minor asthma. In all honesty it's not that bad, but it did stop me from ever serving in the military, benefitting from aid, etc.

My point is that I have a basis for at least partially understanding your problems and while I know there is much more to it than that, I just want to say that I'm sorry this all happened.

That said, it's great to see you are getting yourself published. I'm afraid fifthfiend is correct in one way; getting into an industry is usually about knowing someone who knows someone, but that is not to say it is the only way. Play to your strengths, research what others have done with your background and talents - and utilize it. That is not to say you haven't already. Just offering my advice for whatever its worth.

Best of luck.

[Aerozord]

Great, and unemployment was denied. They said it was a justified termination so I am not entitled to anything. If I'd known that I'd have quit so atleast I've have an easier time getting a new job

[Fifthfiend]

That's some shit man.

Best thing I can tell you now is focus on yourself and not be deterred by other people's shit, ain't nobody gonna help you so you gon' have to help yourself.

[Magus]

Great, and unemployment was denied. They said it was a justified termination so I am not entitled to anything. If I'd known that I'd have quit so atleast I've have an easier time getting a new job

Well the questions on applications are phrased "did you quit with the expectation that you were going to be fired". Honestly just don't even mention you were fired. Also lie when/if possible. The only thing that can happen is they fire you later on for lying--if you don't lie, you (probably) don't get the job in the first place, right? The only downside is some super positive scenario where they were going to hire you whether you were fired or not.

[Aerozord]

Also lie when/if possible.

I dont lie, to me lying is a horrible heinous act. Asking me to lie is like asking me to murder someone in cold blood. I'm not going to do it for money. As I said in my opening post, my morality is quite the handicap

[Fifthfiend]

I'm not gonna ask you to lie

I'm just gonna tell you to lie

There's no honor in playing fair in a game that's already rigged

[Aerozord]

I never said it was smart, but I'm very exacting in my morality with clear lines of right and wrong. Lying regardless of situation or intent is always wrong. This is a major aspect of who I am and a deeply personal and spiritual thing. Even if a lie was all that separated me from an easy life or suffering until death, I still couldn't do it. No point in getting something if I have to betray my principles to get it.

To put it another way, if I was willing to lie, I'd be willing to cheat, abuse, steal, even kill to get what I want. That is how horrible dishonesty is to me

[Fifthfiend]

I respect that but at the same time I don't believe ideology is the answer to things. I think you're a good guy who's been dealt a shitty hand and told that the rules say you're only allowed to take shitty cards and I don't think it's going to help you.

Everyone's told a lie somewhere in their lives and the world didn't end from it, and a lot of people have told much, much worse lies than you ever will.

I know it's hard when you've lost so much so recently; your job, your pet, you end up feeling like your beliefs are the only thing you have left to hold onto.

But I think you need to recognize when it's not you holding onto your beliefs, it's your beliefs holding onto you.

[Aerozord]

Like I said, I know NTs dont understand this. Lying to me is akin to murder. Just as I wont kill someone for a minimum wage job I'm also not going to lie for one. It has nothing to do with me thinking "its all I have" its just who I am and have always been. Trust and honesty mean more to me than literally anything. As long as I have free will I will not lie, period

[Nique]

Lying regardless of situation or intent is always wrong.

You gotta make this aspect of your life more principle and less law. Lying can actually be really great and 100% the right thing to do especially if you're like hiding your oppressed friends from the third reich and that's just the most obvious example.

---------- Post added at 08:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:02 PM ----------

I'm not saying lie on your resumes though

I am saying that IMO you should understand that relativism is in play on some level in your life even if you have previously not acknowledged it, and that there are ways to utilize this to your advantage while not betraying your more fundamental belifes.

---------- Post added at 08:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:06 PM ----------

Like, you know how employers ask about your weaknesses but really (between the lines, in BIG BLOCK LETTERS) what they want is for you to show how it's actually a strength?

That's not a kind of question you have to answer dishonestly, it's a question you have to answer creatively, because it reflects your attitude towards failure, success, and your willingness to learn and grow from your experiences in a positive manner.

---------- Post added at 08:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:11 PM ----------

If you are looking at that example and still feeling like 'nope that's still dishonest cause I feel like shit and if I don't answer in a way that completely unobtrusively & objectively let them know exactly how shitty i feel then that's a dirty lie' then, man, you're martyring yourself for not even a good or valuable reason, and also neglecting a shitload of other really important virtues like grace and discretion.

[Satan's Onion]

...
Like, you know how employers ask about your weaknesses but really (between the lines, in BIG BLOCK LETTERS) what they want is for you to show how it's actually a strength?

That's not a kind of question you have to answer dishonestly, it's a question you have to answer creatively, because it reflects your attitude towards failure, success, and your willingness to learn and grow from your experiences in a positive manner.

Nique has a very good point here; quite a lot of the time, the solution probably isn't found in outright lying but in finding a useful/fortuitous framing of the facts that you have. That's a skill that's well worth developing, and is exactly as moral as a person's use of it.

[Aerozord]

I can be completely honest there cause that is my biggest weakness. I'm too honest. I wont deceive people even if its to my disadvantage

[Nique]

What you gotta understand though is that you have can (and in fact have a right to) exert a degree of control as to how what you disclose is interpreted and what it says about you. You also have a degree of responsibility to exercise self-preservation, as well as politeness in the form of understanding what your audience/ interviewer/ conversational partner wants out of the exchange.

I'll give you an example: I messed up at work last weekend and caused my boss a bunch of extra work. Returning to work, I chose to approach her and proactively apologize and take responsibility for what went down, as well as explain why it happened and how I could improve so that it didn't happen again.

This was motivated by like 70% self-interest, because I wanted to show my boss that I could learn from my mistakes and keep a positive attitude and willingness to take correction/disicpline. So the manner in which I disclosed this information was completely calculated while also being 100% honest.

I could have gone into greater detail about my screwup, but complete disclosure, or over-sharing, would have added no 'truth' to our exchange.

[Aerozord]

Didn't get the job, They said it was because I had long nails. I dont know what upsets me more. That its just an excuse and they are lying to me, or that really was the reason and they had me there for two hours filling out forms for a job they decided in the first five minutes to not give me.

[Solid Snake]

Didn't get the job, They said it was because I had long nails. I dont know what upsets me more. That its just an excuse and they are lying to me, or that really was the reason and they had me there for two hours filling out forms for a job they decided in the first five minutes to not give me.

Did you offer to cut your nails? I'd be intrigued as to how they'd react if you just immediately said "Oh, I can trim those."

[Aerozord]

pretty much, I wasn't so blunt, but I didn't express any issue with the idea

[Solid Snake]

...Yeah, that's stupid then.
If you made that offer and they rejected it, it ain't really about your nails.

[shiney]

You're better off without a company that doesn't respect people enough to give them basic honesty. This may be disappointing in the immediate sense, but as a company they proved to you within the same first five minutes that they don't value or respect people. Imagine life working for a business like that.

[Aerozord]

You're better off without a company that doesn't respect people enough to give them basic honesty. This may be disappointing in the immediate sense, but as a company they proved to you within the same first five minutes that they don't value or respect people. Imagine life working for a business like that.

I worked at walmart, I dont have to imagine

[shiney]

Fuck me, dude. I'm sorry.