Useless

[Overcast]

I tend to stay out of the main area a lot, I see topics here and there as they go. Questions of radical reform, gender equality, gender identity, human rights violations, war atrocities, tragedies of all given sorts or troubles that plague us on a regular basis. And I just don't respond because I have found it very hard to care.

It isn't that I don't have feelings on the matter, but for a great deal of my life I've been robbed of a certain degree of my agency. My feelings on matters, my desire for the way things to go, my hopes dreams and ambitions. I've watched most of them get worn down to a very basic desire for contentment and immortality.

I don't feel like I am capable of changing anything with my choices or actions on a greater scale, I might intrude on someone's life specifically if I see them doing something I don't agree with. But when it comes to just discussing a greater change it all just feels useless.

I'm just one person, no matter how often anyone has tried to prove to me that one unimportant person can make a difference on a grand scale I've never seen it myself. Every year I feel that much smaller, that much more disconnected from the problems that plague the world today. And I just want to live far away from anything that would bother me forever.

How is it you guys can sum up the strong drive to slam your opinions into others? Whether about rape culture or anarchism I found it hard to even try to bring this up, cause it seemed to have no place to exist. This doesn't feel like it is hurting me, it just seems curious to me to see all that pluck in others.

[Amake]

Well, I'm about in the same position as you as far as agency goes, but I keep talking cause I have hope that someone might listen. If I can make just one person have a thought they might not have had on their own, that's enough for me to justify any efforts. There's too many people for me to hope to affect everyone at once, but I think you can change the world if you do it one person at a time.

Which is how much attention each person deserves anyway.

[Kim]

You might not be able to influence change on a significant scale, but you can change a person's mind to being a better person than they might otherwise be, or by speaking up you give someone else the courage to speak up about stuff, or by voicing feelings you might even just be letting someone else know that they aren't alone in their feelings. Most individuals can't accomplish great things on their own, but their individual accomplishments still matter, and they add up to something more.

[Aerozord]

I dont think it will change anything. I am often the voice of dissent around here, and I know its futile to point out the perspective of the other side. To try and explain that no one is "evil", there is no "enemy" just people trying to do what they feel is best. Or that reform is not accomplished by arguing on the internet or sharing memes on facebook. It requires real sacrifice. Many reformists died for their beliefs. Those that didn't suffered. However people don't try to understand the argument, they just make a shallow judgement and get all their information from bias sources. Then from their ivory towers whine and complain thinking if they whine enough the world will change.

You want change? Organize people, grab some weapons, and prepare to kill or be killed for your beliefs. You really care about the poor? Get ready to become one to help them.

In other words, I don't think anything will ever change from debating on here. But I literally have nothing else to do and am self destructive enough that I dont care about being hated and persecuted. I do it cause it wastes time. Everyone here already has made up their minds on a topic, nothing others say will change it. Myself included.

Though people do often make the mistake that just because I offer up the other sides perspective I agree with it. I often don't, but not much point in posting what people already know.

PS

I will also say for most people not just on here but in general like venting their rage and hate. You'll notice topics about things that are objectively good get very little attention. Its only tragedy and violations of rights or hot button issues that get any attention. People want to express their hate here, not celebrate joy.

[Kim]

Venting about bad things to others is a valid coping mechanism. You do not need coping mechanisms for good things.

[Aerozord]

Venting about bad things to others is a valid coping mechanism. You do not need coping mechanisms for good things.

I argue that it is better to celebrate life than mourn death. Especially since focusing on the bad eventually desensitizes you, you just accept that their is suffering. It makes you cynical because people only talk about whats bad it gives you the false impression that nothing good happens.

As an example, due to the media (I'm including internet forums and social media in this) people believe that the world is going down the crapper and crime is growing more and more common since we hear about it constantly. Though statistically violent crimes have been going down since the 50's. Only talking about whats bad leads to this feeling of hopelessness. You need to focus on whats been improving because if you don't eventually you will think improvement isn't possible as we have seen in the opening post.

[Red Mage Black]

OC, I can honestly say that I feel the same. Things might affect the both of us way differently, but it doesn't mean I don't understand how you feel. Anything I could say would just be a reflection of my own limited experiences, which don't count for much on the grand scale. I myself have nothing to fight for as there is nothing actively opposing me for me to give much of a damn what happens elsewhere.

And Aero? Yeah, I've been the dissenting voice before, too. Yet I disagree somewhat. Acceptance of suffering isn't exactly a bad thing. Neither is talking about the bad things happening. Spreading awareness is a step in the right direction. Especially if it spurs people into action to actively change others around them for the good. Recognizing suffering and where it happens leads to those who would seek to change it.

Too much focus on improvement can also lead us to ignore the latter and some to use it as an excuse to dismiss it entirely.

Yet, I do agree that NPF has focused a bit much on suffering in recent times. There isn't much of an audience here to really advertise to. That and I think a lack of differing opinions on some issues causes some of us to assume what the right opinions are. I'm highly opposed to back-patting and ass-grabbing parties, because anyone with a different opinion is going to get bashed over the head by 5 or 6 other people telling them they're wrong.

[Amake]

You want change? Organize people, grab some weapons, and prepare to kill or be killed for your beliefs. You really care about the poor? Get ready to become one to help them. Or if you don't have any people to organize and/or don't want to hurt anyone, you can always set yourself on fire and hope people are moved by your dedication to your cause. Sacrifice can be done in any number of ways, some more extreme than others. But I don't think any sacrifice is entirely ineffective, even if it's just putting time and energy into a forum post.

[Aerozord]

Or if you don't have any people to organize and/or don't want to hurt anyone, you can always set yourself on fire and hope people are moved by your dedication to your cause. Sacrifice can be done in any number of ways, some more extreme than others. But I don't think any sacrifice is entirely ineffective, even if it's just putting time and energy into a forum post.

forum posts are pretty low on that, but I can say that it atleast takes effort. Its those that think hitting like/share actually means something or will change anything. THAT doesn't take time or energy. Why would anyone care about your issue if you aren't willing to put in more effort then that.


sorry thats just a peeve of mine. Take it more as a rant than a rebuttal

[Amake]

Yeah I'm totally with you there. Or I might be if I still used Facebook. That's a kind of boycott that takes a little noticeable effort by the way.

[Overcast]

I said that i don't mind attempting to convince someone near me about their ignorances when I happen to see them. But when it comes to talking about worldwide problems, anti-gay laws in Russia and Uganda, bombing of the Gaza strip, any decision made by the Supreme Court which I find unsettling. I can try to convince someone how i feel about it, and try to sway them to my state of mind. But the larger issue still looms in the backround like a killer behind the curtain.

I myself was already cynical so I have no reason to care about all the good things happening in the world, we don't have to solve those things and good things happening to other people affect me even less than the bad ones.


I want change to happen through progress. I want to believe in the power of inter-connectivity and technology to change us as a people toward something greater. I dream of a day that one person no matter how small can start the spark that truly can make a mark on how people think. What point do I have in changing a world I no longer live in? My corpse is empty and my mind is either ascendant, transitive, or gone forever. Why would I do anything self destructive to change anything. What is more important than myself in this universe?

And I don't mean that on a total scale, just on a personal one. I'd expect the same from anyone else.

[Aerozord]

always charity work. Honestly an evening at a soup kitchen will do far more good than arguing about something on the internet. Worried about those suffering from a natural disaster? Find a group thats providing humanitarian aid and donate some money. If you REALLY want to help out do some missionary work in a third world country.

[Overcast]

Donate yearly, volunteer at least monthly to a variety of scenes as part of a military expectation. I'm not made to be a missionary, I'd rather give food and education outright than bundle it with a book of ethics.

[Aerozord]

Donate yearly, volunteer at least monthly to a variety of scenes as part of a military expectation. I'm not made to be a missionary, I'd rather give food and education outright than bundle it with a book of ethics.

I think you have been miss informed about what modern missionaries are

---------- Post added at 09:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 PM ----------

missionary is not inherently a religiously driven thing. Many simply go to developing areas and help primarily with things like purifying water and various forms of infrastructure.

[Overcast]

Most of the ones I'm aware of are Mormon, so that is likely the case.

[Kim]

yeah mormon missionaries are purely about converting to mormonism for the most part

[Krylo]

I dont think it will change anything. I am often the voice of dissent around here, and I know its futile to point out the perspective of the other side. To try and explain that no one is "evil", there is no "enemy" just people trying to do what they feel is best. Or that reform is not accomplished by arguing on the internet or sharing memes on facebook. It requires real sacrifice. Many reformists died for their beliefs. Those that didn't suffered. However people don't try to understand the argument, they just make a shallow judgement and get all their information from bias sources. Then from their ivory towers whine and complain thinking if they whine enough the world will change.

You want change? Organize people, grab some weapons, and prepare to kill or be killed for your beliefs. You really care about the poor? Get ready to become one to help them.

In other words, I don't think anything will ever change from debating on here. But I literally have nothing else to do and am self destructive enough that I dont care about being hated and persecuted. I do it cause it wastes time. Everyone here already has made up their minds on a topic, nothing others say will change it. Myself included.

Though people do often make the mistake that just because I offer up the other sides perspective I agree with it. I often don't, but not much point in posting what people already know.

PS

I will also say for most people not just on here but in general like venting their rage and hate. You'll notice topics about things that are objectively good get very little attention. Its only tragedy and violations of rights or hot button issues that get any attention. People want to express their hate here, not celebrate joy.

This is a meme that's been around for awhile, but it's inherently untrue and even the most rudimentary understanding of sociology will tell you that.

Change only comes from force of arm or protest when it has first come through change in the gestalt opinion of the society. Burning a car won't change minds, nor will working in a soup kitchen. The latter is certainly a good thing to do, but it won't change policy on how we treat our poor so they don't need soup kitchens. It's the equivalent of giving someone with e-coli some Pepto-Bismal. It treats the symptoms but not the disease.

The disease in our society isn't 'negging', or objectification. It's the idea that women are objects. The disease isn't laughing at trans people, or calling them the wrong gender, or even murder. It's the idea that their gender isn't real. The disease isn't sexuality reformation clinics, or the beatings of homosexual men or women. The disease is the idea that they are any different from anyone else in any real way.

You don't fight ideas with guns and fire. You fight them with other ideas. Every person you convince that transgendered people deserve rights, that women are actual people, that rape culture exists, that homosexuality is to be accepted and normalized, that the poor are not merely, nor mostly, lazy, but people just like us who deserve our aid. . .

That's one person who is going to try to convince another, and another, and eventually? Society changes. Other methods of protest are good. Some are even better, but this idea that changing minds, that the will of a society is somehow disconnected from the will of its people, it's both ignorant and inane.

And it does infinitely more harm than good by splitting lines and creating arguments and infighting in groups that should be working together.

Stop it.

[synkr0nized]

Questions of radical reform, gender equality, gender identity, human rights violations, war atrocities, tragedies of all given sorts or troubles that plague us on a regular basis. And I just don't respond because I have found it very hard to care.

How is it you guys can sum up the strong drive to slam your opinions into others? Whether about rape culture or anarchism I found it hard to even try to bring this up, cause it seemed to have no place to exist. This doesn't feel like it is hurting me, it just seems curious to me to see all that pluck in others.

At the risk of looking at the small picture (npf):
It's an Internet message board. Nothing says you have to be all active in threads or anything, so don't feel bad if this is how you feel.

I'm a cynic, so I have pretty big doubts that the various threads made on NPF are really having any impact on anything and are more a group of like-minded folks that share a social circle (perhaps several!) just chatting and keeping each other aware of news and events.


So I guess I hope you're not using, like, member activity and threads on NPF as some kind of measurement or guideline for your life and sense of agency.

[Overcast]

Well the issue of wanting to respond or care tends to reflect wider than here, but it is easier for me to leave some of my thoughts behind here to try to figure the why behind my very powerful apathy.

I don't use NPF as a measurement or guideline, but it is made of a few people whom I respect the intelligence and opinion of so it has some influence on me. So when I get a feeling like this I'd most likely try to use this as my dowsing rod to get to a well of inspiration.

Meanwhile, pretty behind Krylo as far as how I want to believe how I want to cause change. Though I don't like doing so by discussing larger issues, as much as being on the direct response when I see someone do anything I consider ignorant. I just don't feel like I'm doing much when I'm talking about problems far away, I want the way I'm responding to feel personal. To be almost about being between them and me.

Makes it hard for me to really fight for some things, but not others.

[Krylo]

I'm a cynic, so I have pretty big doubts that the various threads made on NPF are really having any impact on anything and are more a group of like-minded folks that share a social circle (perhaps several!) just chatting and keeping each other aware of news and events
I basically agree that NPF isn't going to make much of a difference talking amongst ourselves, for the record. But challenging ideas out in the world, whether at the mall or on facebook, can have a real effect. I mostly argue here out of habit or because I'm disappointed in something or because I know someone else will if I don't and I like to think it makes life easier here for them when I deal with things.
Meanwhile, pretty behind Krylo as far as how I want to believe how I want to cause change. Though I don't like doing so by discussing larger issues, as much as being on the direct response when I see someone do anything I consider ignorant. I just don't feel like I'm doing much when I'm talking about problems far away, I want the way I'm responding to feel personal. To be almost about being between them and me.

Makes it hard for me to really fight for some things, but not others.
I'm pretty much the same these days. I don't start anything anymore, but I try to intercede when someone says or does something ignorant, or disappointing.

[Nique]

I don't think I'm going to ever create a huge difference in the world at large, but I'd like to know that I can act in a manner that reduces or at the very least does not contribute to someone else's suffering.

[Satan's Onion]

I don't think I'm going to ever create a huge difference in the world at large, but I'd like to know that I can act in a manner that reduces or at the very least does not contribute to someone else's suffering.

Exactly this. Even if changing the whole world is hilariously infeasible, you can always make your tiny corner of it a little bit better. (The funny thing is, the more people do this, the better things become overall.)

[Osterbaum]

Everyone has a different comfort zone, a different level of activism (be that for or against whatever, from convincing friends to striking to writing a blog to physically challenging the existing society on the street) and it's not only ok but smart to act on the level you are capable of or comfortable with. We achieve the most by having people give their participation in whatever way is best for them.

For me, trying to turn peoples heads or even make them aware of existing alternatives or different view is part of that. I do other things as well, with varying degrees of commitment and engagement. I would rather not go into details here.

And it is by no means useless, none of it is. If we all do something, if we all participate in whatever way we can, it adds up to something more. It's one of the great successes of the ruling establishment and ideology, of the established elite with the most to lose if we change things, to have created a world where we feel both elevated and inspired by all the supposed individuality but also atomised and disconnected from others so much that we often feel alone and powerless. But we can have both the feeling of our own self as distinct from all others and the feeling of being part of a larger community who together can achieve great things. "The And we can start making that world right here and now if we get together, organize and fight for what we think is right and just.

By striving to do the impossible, man has always achieved what is possible. Those who have cautiously done no more than they believed possible have never taken a single step forward.

If not you, then who? If not now, then when?

[Overcast]

Took little over a week to take consideration of the supportive attempts at convincing me my voice has a place in the larger world. I'm continue to be inspired to make the changes that affect me personally, but when I have an opinion on something greater I'm still having trouble. From reading into a thread where someone was making an opinion I couldn't formulate much better than me and seemed to inspire almost incredible levels of ire from people I came to the conclusion that I couldn't bring the energy up to fight someone who was unwilling to listen to reason.

Reality is a very harsh place, to face it requires a certain degree of callousness if you are going to actually see it clearly. You can maintain a degree of tact while you attempt to show people how that world is, but some people are unwilling to accept how dirty this planet is and how complex problems tend to be.

When you meet someone who isn't even willing to give you the barest inch by which to consider how you think, how you feel, what could possibly drive you to keep fighting them? People who aren't even willing to accept that feeling the way you do is acceptable in the smallest iota of sense, that having a different opinion is something you can have, those who are almost violently fanatical to their side of things.

Honestly, people who have the will I'm talking about, and are using it in such a way that it actually hurts me.

[Osterbaum]

None of it is easy and it's not always possible to convince everyone.

But revolution, defined as a profound change in paradigm, is a process.

I saw someone post these the other day:
Revolutionary:
a: one engaged in a revolution
b: constituting or bringing about a major or fundamental change

Revolution:
a: a sudden, radical, or complete change
b: activity or movement designed to effect fundamental changes in the socioeconomic situation
c: a fundamental change in the way of thinking about or visualizing something : a change of paradigm

American society is fundamentally capitalistic and classist, rooted in white supremacist, patriarchal, cis and heternormative values. This means-

buying a homeless person dinner and treating them with dignity in a capitalistic society is revolutionary.

When the world blames women for provoking partners and says being an abused woman is preferable to being a single woman-
Supporting a woman's shelter is revolutionary.

In a patriarchal that world blames victims of sexual abuse or seeks to discredit them-
Simply saying "i believe you and it wasn't your fault" is revolutionary

In a world that makes fun of men for having emotions- telling the males in your life it's okay to cry is revolutionary

In a world only values women for prettiness or fuckability-
Appreciating the women in your life for their intellect and capability is revolutionary.

In a world that functions on cis and hetero Normativity, accepting members of the lgtbqia community for who they are is revolutionary.

Non poc treating poc like equals is revolutionary. Poc loving themselves is revolutionary.

Treating people with respect and compassion because all humans are worthy of such things is one way to start a revolution.