The last thread (get it?)

[Amake]

So I was typing up a serious, name-names, burn-all-bridges, if-you-listen-to-me-just-once-then-ban-these-jerks-along-with-me, thank-you-for-these-years-of-peace, sorry-about-the-slow-decline-into-nothingness goodbye post when I ran into this quote of Arundhati Roy:
http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/immortalpictures/arundhati.jpg

And I thought, there's no way to even try to actually live up to those words if I'm bailing out. I live probably one of the most isolated existences of any human being in a populated region of Earth, and if I'm being honest that's only partially because I don't function socially as most people, but also because I have a very low tolerance for human imperfection, and I often find it easier to shut people out of my life than endure any amount of uneducated, self-involved hateful bullshit (or really anything up to an including annoying taste in music.) I'm in the privileged position to be able to afford to have many disparate kinds of people in my life, in fact much more than I can afford turning away anyone who can possibly stand being around me, and it occurs to me I should really make an effort to do so.

Not sure what point I'm getting at here, other than Arundhati Roy is a brilliant writer, NPF deserves another chance, and most of us (okay, me) can probably try harder to get along with people who hold different, even wildly stupid opinions, without retreating away as if worried about catching infectious disease.

Now, I'm not trying to say I want our forum's oppressed minorities to suck it up and not complain so much, not at all. You set your own limits; you decide for yourself what it means to "reach out". Maybe you want to just peace out. (Goodbye, Token.) I don't judge. I believe in all possibilities.

Fresh start? Feels like it to me.

8SbUC-UaAxE

[Flarecobra]

The part above the highlighted text deserves consideration as well.

[Nique]

I like to think that with enough exposure and a willingness to listen to diverse perspectives (even seemingly angry ones), that anyone can understand and empathize with the plight of others.

The real core problem, IMO, is failing to give a group who says 'I am suffering' the benefit of the doubt, and rather choosing to trust ONLY one's own understanding of the world when considering a solution. I mean, imagine doing this on a personal level? How shitty of a person would you be to tell your friend 'You're not really depressed, just snap yourself out of it' or to a rape victim 'maybe it was just a misunderstanding'.

The smug, self-satisfied demand for 'pure unemotional objectivity' and just the exact right amount of evidence in every example of, among MANY other things, police brutality, denies the impact of already established and unresolved problems, and is cruel. It furthermore creates a false facade of 'calmness' by which understandably heated l responses are seen as unreasonable.

[shiney]

I'll hijack your thread and use it for my own purposes then if it's all the same to you.

I am not going to make a big name names post either, but anyone who has been here for more than a week already knows that I have a long history of being on the wrong side of things because I have usually been more concerned with trying to keep the peace and avoid escalating conflicts. But oftentimes at this forum it feels like you can't be neutral. Either you passionately defend one side or the other. Remaining silent or neutral means you implicitly endorse a side because you agree with their viewpoints, or their tactics, or refuse to condemn them, or whatever. There's no real win condition apart from intentionally ignoring the discussions altogether, which is always a recipe for sure success. As a mod I didn't usually have the option of remaining neutral but I still tried to do the best I could to represent all members of the forum while staying true to what I felt was the right path toward becoming a good person.

I will continue to strive toward broadening my horizons and learning not simply how to treat people "equally" but just to be a good decent human being to everyone regardless of any of the circumstances of their lives. I have come a long way toward this and I am proud of my own changes even if they have come too slow for many of our past and present friends.

I love this forum and community and it has been my home online for almost 15 years. 15 years of watching everyone develop into new people, to discover aspects of themselves they either didn't know about or kept hidden. I've watched the world become a much scarier place and seen it affect my friends here directly. I've seen a lot of shit and dealt with a lot of shit as leader/owner/operator, and more recently as a member of an amazing team of dedicated mods and admins. During my tenure at NPF and its prior incarnations I watched as 9/11 happened, war were declared, enlisted in the Air Force, mission accomplished were declared, got back out, broadband became widespread, lived in England for over a year, started and killed multiple comics of my own, got married, had two children, enrolled in college, obtained an associate's degree with my bachelor's due in June (with a 4.0 I will add). I watched America elect its first black president. And re-elect him.

My dad's wife (my stepmother) died while I was in the military. Five years later he came out to me as gay and lost most of his friends and much of his family. He ultimately moved out of state. Around the same time my grandmother shifted from a loving and caring woman to the most hardcore FOX News parroting asshole you'll ever meet in your life.

I hosted arguably the most hilariously drama-packed Ragnarok Online server that could have existed, and allowed that poison to fester like an open wound on the bottom of the forum. I loved it. Even if I sucked at it.

I worked at a plastics factory, at the American Heart Association (and got in trouble for surfing NPF too much during work hours), worked at a stock & bond registrar in England, worked a soulless and hateful corporate America office job, and most recently my career of choice as an IT administrator. I watched and participated in fights and conflict here, and witnessed other forum members fall in love and get married...

But I can't do this anymore. I can't remain a member of the leadership team while I, myself, am becoming more jaded and cynical toward the motives of so many. I can't call myself unbiased and I don't deserve to lead. If I could go back in time, I never would have brought the discussion forum back. It brought life to the forum, for a time, but now it only brings death. Of all the people who have quit, the discussion forum is definitively far and above the leading cause and I don't think the trade-off of having serious discussions has been worth watching friendships broken and people quit or be driven off. The end of Brian's comic didn't help much either since his website was the major driver of traffic to here...I would have hoped that Matt's comic could bring in new life as well, perhaps if it had its own site (sorry Matt) there would be greater opportunity to pursue that as an option.

Word salad aside, I don't really want to leave I guess, but I'm going to anyways because in the past several months I've come here wanting to be able to kick back and relax but I just can't shake this feeling of being "shiney" and all the bridges that have been burned. It just hurts to see people fight, all the time, even if they often agree on most points, and to just want people to not do that here. The forum represents a place of disappointment and pain and sadness for me, and there's no small portion of it that is an echo of what could have been, "if only I had done this differently." Maybe I couldn't have done anything, but I look at our members list of 11,278 and our recently active list of mid 30s? Ish? and can't help but feel like I've failed you all somehow. So.......

See ya.

[Kim]

Sorry for my own contributions to you leaving. I wouldn't have wanted that. I hope you're doing well in the future. Good luck with everything.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

shiney, I criticize, mock and belittle the you and the mods (in my own way) and I am generally an all around nuisance to the forums. But I could never say you failed the forum. If anything you were the binding agent that kept us here, whether we knew it or not.

Yes you have fucked up on occasion in the past and there have been moments where you get slammed for some of your decisions you have made. But to say you failed is wrong. If the forums are dying, it is not your fault. Well not all of it. People are moving away and there are two reasons for that. Firstly, Matt does not have the same pull as Brian did (no offence meant). Once 8 Bit ended and Robo started picking up steam, he cut us loose. Now I am not blaming Brian for what he did. He made a choice that would prove beneficial to his work and as you said, this place can be a toxic nightmare. If I were in Brian's position, I would have done the same.

Secondly, forums have become archaic in an era of social media with places like Facebook and Reddit. Those two sites (for the most part) can replicate the forums quite well with less hassle. It is also far more welcoming. On Reddit (or Facebook), someone can browse what they like and if they feel the need to comment, they already have an account. With forums, they really don't have a chance to comment without first having to make an account. Now while that sounds like a silly reason, to many it is way too inconvenient to do so. Why make an account for some site you are going to show up once in a blue moon.

shiney, instead of seeing this as a failure, see it as a kid that you have nurtured into adulthood. For 15 years you stood by and helped shape this place into what it was.

When I first joined up here, I was a fan of 8-Bit theatre and wanted to talk to like minded people. Over time I grew to know others here and slowly moved away from the comic discussion and became with friends with quite a few people here and until it dies, I will stay.

[Flarecobra]

Shiney, you were there before I joined the military, and some of your advice helped me get through Basic. You ran the server that got me into Ragnarok Online, which I still play off and on to this day. I can understand why you're stepping down, as oftentimes the stress caused here is just plain not worth it. I also agree, this forum's glory days are most certainly in the past... I do hope that at least you'll keep in touch just as a friend, and not as an admin.

[mauve]

We'll miss you, Shiney. It's been a good 10+ years having you on the mod team and it won't be the same without you. I understand why you're leaving, though.

Please remember all of us as friends. Good luck, thank you for everything, and don't be afraid to drop in and say hi sometime.

[Amake]

I don't think forums are getting archaic. There's a lot to be said for having a community infrastructure that doesn't depend on the questionable business practices of reddit, facebook or twitter.

But anyway, it's been nice knowing you, shiney. Thanks for putting up with us as much as you have.

[tacticslion]

Guys, I would like to say right now that, insomuch as I, at all, cause problems, I apologize.

Based entirely on the subtext of this thread, I'm guessing the latest thing to go down is something in the News and Current Events thread on the Police brutality thing.

I participated in that thread a couple of times before backing out.

I can see how my participation may well have been taken as problematic. I don't know for sure - it looked that the thread was headed to bad places, and I left. If anything I said was somehow directly offensive, I apologize. That was not my intent, though I suppose I could have worded things a little better.

But seriously: shiney, I'm really, really sorry. I'm sorry this isn't a place to relax. I'm sorry it's a place that brings you down. You can't know how sorry I am.

I have appreciated you guys and what you do, and have been thankful for NPF. The oldest post I have access to is from 2011, but the oldest post I've got rep for that I've seen is around 2009, if I recall. As I remember it, I lurked from before I joined, and I kind of think I joined a while before I got my first rep (in fact, after reading the thread, I'm certain of it - I recall many other conversations prior to that one, and certainly I was around the forums significantly before 4E ever became a thing that was considered, much less existed... in fact, as I was introduced to 8-Bit by my college roommate, I can say for sure that I lurked sometime around 2003, though I don't know when I actually joined). Ah! Just found it: 2006 was a join-date, with reading around... I dunno, 2003 probably, and lurking starting 2004-5.

Anyway, the point is - I've been here for a while (though not as long as many), and I've grown to love this place and the people in it, even as those people have dwindled. The fact that, of all the people I've befriended, not one of them is still here (that I know of), is telling.

Is NPF dead? No. But it's been dwindling for years. That makes sense, really. It's the way of things.

But even as it's dwindled, it's been amazing and will continue to be. Until it goes away, I'll continue to enjoy hanging around here and loving you guys, and praying for you and that your lives go well. I'll probably continue to pray for you even after it does (whenever that is).

I don't want you to go, shiney, as, in my opinion, while you've definitely been wrong or made bad calls, you've over-all been awesome; but I don't want you to stay somewhere that's toxic, draining, or unhappy for you. If you need it, go. Just... keep in contact with me, if you do, okay, man?

I, for one, appreciate what you've been doing. You and all the mods. I know I'm not alone. I also know it's not easy - taking care of people never is. Thank you.

Peace to you guys.

QUASI-EDIT: mmmmmmmmmmmmmeh, my internet connection sucks. I dunno if this will be the time I'm allowed to submit or not. I started this wreck at 5:45-ish PM or thereabouts.

QUASI-EDIT 2: nope; m'kay, it's dinner time, be back later

QUASI-EDIT 3: unsurprisingly, totally ninja'd by a lot of folks; I'll read 'em later :)

[RobinStarwing]

Editted for Assholery that made no contribution to this thread what so ever.

[shiney]

Thanks guys. Kim: I won't lie, situations involving you contributed to this but you weren't responsible for this. please understand one thing if nothing else: my truest desire for you and your community is to go unnoticed by society. let me qualify this before I misstate my intentions. I want people to genuinely not give a fuck if someone is T (or GBLQ). or black or Asian or disabled or WHATEVER. You deserve the same kind of treatment white cis people get: unqualified societal acceptance. I love what you and Terex do and I'm so damn proud of you guys and please, please, never stop. You have a staunch ally in me. Absolutely unwavering in my commitment to see you and yours get true justice. But I just can't deal with the anger here at this beautiful tragic forum anymore.

also since I am checking out: Jesus fuck my eye Christ robin. you are an actual for real idiot. Let me guess? During communion at your church you probably fart on the altar due to not recognizing the gravity of the situation?

It's also possible you are an atheist so if that's the case I can only imagine your eventual spouse is going to spend a LOT of time apologizing. I am DDisappointed. double d for a double dose of dis appointment.

<3 NPF 4lyfe

[RobinStarwing]

Well, after being caught up on everything...

First apologies. Came home as I said from what I thought would be a short trip out being turned into a five hour excursion that took three hours before getting something on my stomach with at least half of that being my dad's shopaholic wife having to look at everything NOT having to do with why she went into the store she went into in the first place. >_< Then get home to end up in a five hour food coma from the bacon cheeseburger and fries I had for dinner to wake up at 1am and not end up going back to sleep till 5 and wake up again at 10:30 this morning.

Second, happy trails Shiney! No, I am not an aethist though I've thought of farting in church before...recovering Catholic.

[Marc v4.0]

I think the major point being made was just don't fucking post if all you are going to post is 'I'm not going to post yet for reals' because your total contribution to the topic at hand would have been better had you not posted, because you wouldn't have been making it into some inane -thing- about YOU

Damn.

[RobinStarwing]

I think the major point being made was just don't fucking post if all you are going to post is 'I'm not going to post yet for reals' because your total contribution to the topic at hand would have been better had you not posted, because you wouldn't have been making it into some inane -thing- about YOU

Damn.

I was about to edit my post to reflect I should of just not posted at all last night with how I was feeling.

Still, apologies for being an ass with that post.

[pochercoaster]

Shiney, forums are a miserable place and you absolutely should GTFO and go windsurfing or something with RaiRai and your family instead. Spend too long on any one place on the internet and it becomes an emotional investment that doesn't yield returns (except when you meet your spouse online, but after that it's a waste of time.) Life should be awesome and NPF ain't that. Get the hell out of here because it's the right thing for you. Take up whatever hobbies or projects you've had on the backburner instead. You won't regret spending time on things other than NPF, trust me. Life is too short to spend it on here.

[Azisien]

Puttin' that forum on a pedestal. Take off those rose-tinted glasses and realize that all things must come to an end. You now stand within the inevitable and undefeatable heat death of NPF.

[batgirl]

Shiney, you and I, we go wayyyyy back. This forum and I go wayyyyy back. Back to before here, before TWC, to EZBoards. I was 15 when I joined EZBoards. Now here I am almost 30, a lot older and maybe a bit wiser.

I've always had the utmost respect for the mods here. You all spend a lot of time on an internet forum, putting aside your personal lives, free time, and sometimes real jobs to be on here and keep us little minions in check.

Sometimes the forums ran wonderfully. Everyone got along, the RP section was thriving, threads were active, AIM chat was always filled. Some of my best memories come from being on here and participating in threads, RPs and chats. There were also times of difficulty. Arguments, mass bannings, entire sections being closed down. Over the years I've taken a back seat, mostly due to not having as much free time as I used to. I lurk much more than I used to, not wanting to post in threads just because I can't think of things to say that might be contributory. So I lurk, a grandma of the forums, so to speak.

It's sad to see you go Shiney. You particularly have been a friend to me and I enjoyed our conversations. Conversely if I did anything over the years to make life difficult for you here, I'm sorry.

However, I understand why you need to go, and I applaud you for doing so and finally getting some time to rest. Enjoy your family, enjoy your free time and enjoy your life to its' fullest.

Ninaja will always believe in you.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

Puttin' that forum on a pedestal. Take off those rose-tinted glasses and realize that all things must come to an end. You now stand within the inevitable and undefeatable heat death of NPF.

I see it more like a phoenix. something will rise in NPF's ashes

[Overcast]

I should have put a pick to the roleplaying section years ago and sailed off with everyone that mattered to me.

[Terex4]

Shiney, if anyone's earned a break it's you.

Because of how long this place has been around, there are a ton of "what ifs" when it comes to how we've gotten where we are today. You can't kick yourself too hard over real or perceived mistakes, we all have and will continue to make them. What you have done is try to acknowledge and learn from those instances, which is what great leaders do.

One thing to remember though is that a community is the sum of its members. Leadership can only do so much, the rest is up to us. If we can't, even with guidance, create compatibility among ourselves, then shitstorms are going to be a recurring thing.

Even phasing in and out of activity over the years, this place has been a constant for me. It's a place I've always been able to come back to with new stories to hear and tell.

I hate to see you go, the idea of NPF minus Shiney just doesn't compute. Enjoy your new-found free time :dance:

[shiney]

I wanted to address how shit a job I've done of quitting 4lyfe.

NPF, I can't quit you.

Also it's so much less stressful not being an admin or even mod anymore. I feel like I'm able to connect a little better? I genuinely like you guys. All of you. Even the ones who frustrate the hell out of me.

[Flarecobra]

Maybe that's all that's needed? Just shake off the shackles of responsibility?

[shiney]

I kinda think so! I get to just be a part of the community and not have to Make Decisions.

[Hatake Kakashi]

Making decisions is overrated. All that leads to is more decisions, and more, and yet more still.

Fuck that.

It's good to see that, despite trying to quit us all, you're just too damned strong to be a slave to your own willpower.

Welcome back.