I'm gonna go...

[batgirl]

I think I'm gonna have to leave here. I know, I barely post, but I think I need to delete this place from my bookmarks for at least a good long while.

I've been around these parts since the absolute very beginning of EZBoards, the little internet forum about a Final Fantasy webcomic. Over the years I've seen this place grow into so much more, and finally degenerate into so much less.

I rarely post anymore, not because I don't have anything to say, but mostly because I don't feel like it matters and that I don't feel like I would be respected. This place has turned into a toxic hate-filled environment where if you don't feel a certain way, you are immediately chastised and forced into some half-assed apology or you are forever labeled a pariah.

This place used to be an environment where you could chill, enjoy some amusing posts, hang out in AIM Chat, and make friends. I have so many lifelong friends from this place.

Don't get me wrong, it's not just this place that's changed, of course I've changed. I was 15 when I joined initially, 18 when we moved over to this forum. I'm 30 now, have a career, 2 jobs I love, a house, a fiance. My opinions have changed on numerous subjects and I see the world through some very different eyes.

So I guess that's it. I'll go sweep out my little batcave corner, grab my Cyber Wars RP pages and hit the trail. I'll still be around on Steam and Facebook for the select few who have that and want to talk.

To all of you who joined me on this long ass ride through the interwebs:

Stay as awesome as you have always been.

[mauve]

We'll miss you batgirl. Stay safe, good luck, and never stop being awesome.

[MasterOfMagic]

So long, good luck, happy memories :)

[MSperoni]

I agree with Batgirl about a lot. If not for my comic I probably wouldn't have stuck around as long as I did.

Then again, I dunno, I think my being relatively new doesn't make the problems hit me as hard. I have met a lot of good friends here, and I'm a glutton for outrage.

A certain person whom I respect warned me about the toxicity levels but I kept on because I really like talking to you all when there isn't a temper tantrum being thrown.

This whole thing with people getting into self-righteous shit rages at anyone who slightly disagrees with them needs to stop (and no, I'm not siding/attacking a particular political view, I'm speaking generally).

Dunno if it'll take eliminating news and "Justice/Social/Injustice" type threads, building a new forum from scratch or what, but changes will be made because this is ridiculous.

A "safe space" doesn't mean "bullying anyone who disagrees with me till they quit the forums".

Anyway, sucks to see you quit, BG. We didnt' talk much, but in your last hurrah in chat I realized that there were many things we could have discussed. Such as Batman!

Also I love cooking and am always looking for tips. It was nice seeing you on Food Network (and you should've not been cut early. Presentation? Shmesentation. That guy's food was undercooked!)

[Fenris]

See you later, Space Batgirl.

You've always been a great addition to this community! Wishing you happiness always.

[Aerozord]

I go through periods of abandoning this forum for similar reasons. Originally I posted here because it was a place of diverging opinions, a place thats hard to find on an internet forum. Where I didn't have to worry about my natural instinct to be antagonistic to group-think mob mentality. Now, yea its agree with my the groups specific flavor of leftist philosophy or be dogpiled and labeled as whatever the respective slur is for the topic. Try posting even something positive about religion and it gets hijacked for hate rants

Though that doesn't bother me, or rather I tolerate it. I have lived a life of being ostracized and bullied. So I return out of habit and because its the only forum (in the traditional sense) for me to talk about more general topics. That and I hate how insular the internet has become. Just like minded people circle-jerking their personal beliefs, hiding away from voices of dissent. The toxicity doesn't bother me and I still hope to inject some alternative points of view into discussions.

[MSperoni]

Alternate views are one thing. Racist, transphobic, homophobic, misogynistic views are another.

(Not that you do that, just speaking generally)

Many people have a rightly low tolerance for anything that resembles that, and I'm not gonna sit here like a smug douche telling people they're "overreacting".

Still, I wish we could critique the view without attacking the person who has the view. Pages and pages of profanity laced posts or snide remarks by people who take things too personally make it pretty evident that's not gonna happen.

Not everyone has the time or inclination to become an expert on the subtleties of the various isms. Not everyone shares the same background.

But if the differences result in us treating people in the community like scum, hatefully and without mercy or forgiveness, then we've failed as forumites, IMO.

So, yeah, maybe a forum reboot is in order.

[Marc v4.0]

Alternate views are one thing. Racist, transphobic, homophobic, misogynistic views are another.

(Not that you do that, just speaking generally)

Many people have a rightly low tolerance for anything that resembles that, and I'm not gonna sit here like a smug douche telling people they're "overreacting".

Still, I wish we could critique the view without attacking the person who has the view. Pages and pages of profanity laced posts or snide remarks by people who take things too personally make it pretty evident that's not gonna happen.

Not everyone has the time or inclination to become an expert on the subtleties of the various isms. Not everyone shares the same background.

But if the differences result in us treating people in the community like scum, hatefully and without mercy or forgiveness, then we've failed as forumites, IMO.

So, yeah, maybe a forum reboot is in order.

We'll honestly never get there because people still take any critique of a problematic view as a personal attack that singles them out by name, no matter how careful you are or how many times you outright say it isn't a personal attack.. Or get SUPER ANGRY for somebody that isn't actually angry about a thing.

[Amake]

I've always admired you, batgirl. You do the work of heroes, obviously, and besides that, from what little we've talked, you seem to me a person of uncommon earnestness, courage, fortitude, integrity and compassion. Hopefully this doesn't sound like too much ass-kissing. I'm just guilty about failing to show the respect I have for you.

I'm sorry to see you go is all. But I hope you keep being great, and do it with people who make you happy.

[Aerozord]

Still, I wish we could critique the view without attacking the person who has the view. Pages and pages of profanity laced posts or snide remarks by people who take things too personally make it pretty evident that's not gonna happen.

thats just it, simply calling someone sexist (for example) doesn't do anything but insult them and make you sound like someone that has no rebuttal but to insult them. Explaining why its sexist and how it hurts people or why its unfair is actual productive discussion. Though as was also stated responses like that are also often met with the same dismissive insults. You need to have both sides open to rational discussion, and it saddens me because this used to be the one place I could find it

[Marc v4.0]

thats just it, simply calling someone sexist (for example) doesn't do anything but insult them and make you sound like someone that has no rebuttal but to insult them. Explaining why its sexist and how it hurts people or why its unfair is actual productive discussion. Though as was also stated responses like that are also often met with the same dismissive insults. You need to have both sides open to rational discussion, and it saddens me because this used to be the one place I could find it

I lost track of how many times it actually has been explained, in great depth, only to be promptly ignored in order to keep accusing the person of making personal attacks.

We've had this song and dance so many times, and it's always the same number and the same moves.

[shiney]

I'm sure there's a better venue for this goddamn discussion than the "I'm leaving" thread from someone who has been a member of the community for 15 years.

15 years. She is a good friend of ours. And she's leaving.

This is a failure of every person involved in this endless circular shit.

[Flarecobra]

I admit, I'm very tempted to up stakes and leave myself. I've felt more comfortable speaking out when I was in the military then here sometimes as of late...

[Magus]

Aww, well I'll miss you batgirl.

Also, I thought this place always got a little heated, at least ever since I've been here I've noticed it can get pretty heated (which has been extended period of years), but it used to be kept to the Discussion forum for the most part...maybe that's spilling out into the others, I guess.

[Fenris]

I'm sure there's a better venue for this goddamn discussion than the "I'm leaving" thread from someone who has been a member of the community for 15 years.

15 years. She is a good friend of ours. And she's leaving.

This is a failure of every person involved in this endless circular shit.

^

[Marc v4.0]

Well, this seemed to be the place that it was going down in. Matt or Aero, if you feel it warrants a thread we can talk about it there instead.

[Solid Snake]

On the one hand, the fact that batgirl feels compelled to leave by virtue of our asinine inability to get along like decent human beings is certainly an indictment on NPF as a community.

On the other hand, it really feels like the criticism of 'every person involved in this endless circular shit' is really being utilized to just shame people here who care enough about certain social justice issues to become irate in overt cases of prejudice and inappropriate behavior.

I mean, it's pretty much implicit in the fact that Fenris and Shiney are posting that shit as a blanket condemnation of other people rather than critically analyzing their own behavior. The intent here is pretty transparently not to change anything systemic about NPF's culture or to actually engage in a productive conversation about where we've gone wrong or how we could become better. Instead, they're wagging the finger at anyone whose position contradicts the privileged norm as part of the problem that's scared batgirl away.

If there's any underlying message here it strikes me as like, "If you're an oppressed minority shut the fuck up if we say anything that offends you, otherwise you might scare good people like batgirl away, and we value her participation in this community more than we value your precious feelings." And that is like the complete fucking opposite of any message we should actually be sending when it comes to the kinds of controversies that have plagued NPF.

[Aerozord]

Well, this seemed to be the place that it was going down in. Matt or Aero, if you feel it warrants a thread we can talk about it there instead.

Personally? Not at all, we all know of the issue by now and for some baffling reason it continues. Another thread about it would quickly devolve into another thread of hate launched bile.

[MSperoni]

If anyone here posts anything from this point forward that is not well-wishes to batgirl they're getting banned for a month.

[batgirl]

So I had a few private messages to look at and I poked my head back in here.

This shit is exactly why I'm leaving. Someone is trying to say something, goodbye in this case, and you guys turn it into a finger pointing game of who is the bigger dick. Yes, I have been here a long time, but I don't matter any more than any of you. That also means I don't matter any less. The total lack of respect in here is ridiculous. I'm a person, whose voice and opinion deserve to be heard at least, and hopefully respected, and I get none of that.

To those who have wished me well: Thank you for being decent human beings.

To the rest of you who decided that this petty shit was much more important to you than my last goodbye, and especially to you Snake, because I don't have to watch my words anymore, and because you are one of the main reasons why I'm leaving:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e340/batgirl39/Mobile%20Uploads/bb421c46a94d25a7cc049cde2b03c81b7a20ec2da65af0c69a 0ce5d5122e3b4d_zpsm3katppz.jpg (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/batgirl39/media/Mobile%20Uploads/bb421c46a94d25a7cc049cde2b03c81b7a20ec2da65af0c69a 0ce5d5122e3b4d_zpsm3katppz.jpg.html)

[MSperoni]

If anyone here posts anything from this point forward that is not well-wishes to batgirl they're getting banned for a month.

Friendly reminder! This rule is still in effect.


(Obviously Batgirl won't get banned since, well, y'know...)

[Solid Snake]

To the rest of you who decided that this petty shit was much more important to you than my last goodbye, and especially to you Snake, because I don't have to watch my words anymore, and because you are one of the main reasons why I'm leaving:


...Strange; I don't recall actually having insulted you personally anywhere here.

Which is a nice segway because, like, I feel absolutely no personal hostility towards you. You appear to potentially believe otherwise, which is unfortunate. I'm not sure where your hostility towards me actually stems from, but it saddens me to see it expressed, particularly as I can't say I anticipated that you felt that way.

You're a good person, batgirl. I do mean that. I respect the personal sacrifices you've made and your commitment to a daunting career. I wish you stuck around, and absolutely nothing I've typed here should be interpreted as an expression of any sort of satisfaction in seeing you go.

[Fenris]

I mean, it's pretty much implicit in the fact that Fenris and Shiney are posting that shit as a blanket condemnation of other people rather than critically analyzing their own behavior. The intent here is pretty transparently not to change anything systemic about NPF's culture or to actually engage in a productive conversation about where we've gone wrong or how we could become better. Instead, they're wagging the finger at anyone whose position contradicts the privileged norm as part of the problem that's scared batgirl away.

If there's any underlying message here it strikes me as like, "If you're an oppressed minority shut the fuck up if we say anything that offends you, otherwise you might scare good people like batgirl away, and we value her participation in this community more than we value your precious feelings." And that is like the complete fucking opposite of any message we should actually be sending when it comes to the kinds of controversies that have plagued NPF.

The message is shut the fuck up if you're being an asshole.

You're being an asshole.

Shut the fuck up.

Also @marc IDK maybe take this discussion to the other thread we already have about this exact conversation?

[MSperoni]

Dammit.

[pochercoaster]

The message is shut the fuck up if you're being an asshole.

You're being an asshole.

Shut the fuck up.

Also @marc IDK maybe take this discussion to the other thread we already have about this exact conversation?

*goes to report post button* Oh.

[Fenris]

If anyone here posts anything from this point forward that is not well-wishes to batgirl they're getting banned for a month.

Just saw this post - should have read closer!

[MSperoni]

Erm. okay, well, I'm gonna close this thread now since I think everything's been said that is going to be said.

If anyone would like to wish batgirl anymore well wishes, you can PM her!

[Fenris]

To clarify, the thread is being closed because it is hopelessly derailed to the point where the original intent of the thread has been lost.

Please send any remaining well-wishes to batgirl's PM inbox.