"It's Been Too Long Since We Fought Over Feminism" or "I Wear Skirts!"

[Seil]

In the show How I Met Your Mother, there's an exchange betwixt the characters that runs like so:

Ted: "She's going to tell some bogus story about a cooking class because she's embarrassed we met online.
Lily: Ai Chihuahua!
Ted: What? What? There's no stigma anymore.
Lily: Oh, there's a stigma. That's why people always say, "There's no stigma anymore.""

I'm not Frank N. Furter (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCZDWZFtyWY). But skirts are comfortable (http://ca.complex.com/style/2015/10/men-in-womenswear-is-a-thing-and-thats-cool), yo. Especially in summer. Why can women wear men's clothing and men can't do the opposite?

[RobinStarwing]

In the show How I Met Your Mother, there's an exchange betwixt the characters that runs like so:



I'm not Frank N. Furter (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCZDWZFtyWY). But skirts are comfortable (http://ca.complex.com/style/2015/10/men-in-womenswear-is-a-thing-and-thats-cool), yo. Especially in summer. Why can women wear men's clothing and men can't do the opposite?

You obviously have not been to Scotland...or Ireland! :smug: (Yes, this is a joke meant for the sake of being ridiculous.)

[rpgdemon]

Way into men wearing dresses and skirts.

http://41.media.tumblr.com/ad835b00dc61acb4ca582f938a3836bb/tumblr_n48pujADp61sqlrzjo1_540.jpg

[phil_]

From the article: Fly shit is fly shit no matter who it's intended for.I'd say I'm down with that, but then Maybe that's why when I got to shop Lemaire's Uniqlo collaboration, the items that caught my eye were a pair of pleated men's pants, a men's shirt jacket, and an off-white women's coat that makes me feel like a mixture of Patrick Bateman and Dexter from Dexter's Laboratory.I remember wearing a lab coat in nursing school. I looked good in a lab coat, and they have those awesome not-pockets that let you get at your pants pockets. But can I wear a lab coat, as some guy who will never step foot in a lab again? I don't know, but I don't think so. It would sully the lab coat's image.

So, maybe it's like some people make fly shit less-fly by wearing it? Or maybe having little preference or discernment regarding womens' and mens' fashion is a handicap to sorting out trucks for the great Satans, and as such is a weakness that should be resolved rather than something to be celebrated. Maybe having a job is bullshit and we should all just be naked in the prairie.

You Decide!

edit: And now I want to watch TRHPS. Thanks, Seil.

[Seil]

E_kvXeMv-2k

[Seil]

Phone, pink, too difficult.

Pride Month in Toronto. Haven't worn skirt out. Self conscious. Thin skinned. Hate crowds, but Parade seems like safe space.

[Nikose Tyris]

Okay well. I guess I can contribute here?

http://i.imgur.com/OTudWgql.jpg

Ain't nothing masculine or feminine about clothes.

[Bum Bill Bee]

How is it that there's seemingly a lot of stories about boys being abused into being girls ie:

Camp Sleepaway
The House At the End of the Road
The Perfect Daughter (creepypasta)

But there's no stories about girls being abused into being boys?

[phil_]

Probably because being abused implicitly involves a loss or absence of power, and, culturally, being a girl is a weaker position (with less power) than being a boy. So abusing a boy makes him lose power and thus puts him in a weaker position, akin to that occupied by girls in our culture. Edit: It doesn't work the other way because these stories achieve their shock value through that loss of power, and a girl becoming a boy, while a power loss in the denial of her identity, doesn't involve the same across-the-board cultural loss of power as the opposite./edit

But I think wearing gender non-conforming clothing is a different subject than fap fiction.

[Bum Bill Bee]

And I don't know what wearing gender non-conforming clothes has to do with feminism, so quid pro quo.


But thanks for the answer, that was helpful :)

[pochercoaster]

Strict enforcement of gender roles is pretty terrible, and in many cases results in violence. I mean how many LGBT have been bullied and beaten up for dressing differently or having different mannerisms? And there is an epidemic of violence towards transgender people simply because the majority of people view them as falling outside the norm.

It doesn't mean we should do away with gender (which is impossible) because gender is not the problem. Punishing people for not adhering to the gender roles we expect them to follow is, however.

I mean although as a white lady I'm basically the Princess of the Universe and experience enormous amounts of privilege, I deal with a lot of people, especially dudes, being surprised when I am assertive, or set boundaries, or have opinions, etc. Because women are supposed to be quiet and stand behind their man (https://youtu.be/LS37SNYjg8w), as prescribed by their gender role. If I describe the egalitarianism of my marriage I am told that I'm wearing the pants in the relationship, when actually we are just, y'know, egalitarian, and no one wears the pants.* Because having an equal position to a man is seen as unusual.

And that is just my own example. People with multiple marginalizations deal with much worse.

*Pants are an illusion, and so is death.

Despite all this I think I'd feel better if I never saw anyone on NPF in a nightie.

[Seil]

How is it that there's seemingly a lot of stories about boys being abused into being girls ie:

Camp Sleepaway
The House At the End of the Road
The Perfect Daughter (creepypasta)

But there's no stories about girls being abused into being boys?

Because women wear pants. Women wear shirts. They don't wear men's shirts, they're just shirts. Women aren't being bullied into being men, they've already got that option. Men being feminine is "unmasculine."

And I don't know what wearing gender non-conforming clothes has to do with feminism, so quid pro quo.

'Cause when I made the thread, I didn't think everyone would be accepting, and I thought that it might trigger a debate on inclusion and feminism.

Pocher has it right in that people should be open minded and not focus so much attention on gender, and this is coming from someone who likes traditional gender roles.

(Not that I enjoy my masculinity as a source of power used to subjugate the feminine masses, but I do enjoy the idea of being a supporter, a provider with a partner who stands by me as much as I stand by her or him.)