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Astral Harmony 09-14-2010 05:43 AM

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No, I'm just getting into this again! Let's finish it quickly, sure. But let's, y'know, at least do that killing ourselves. At least another two turns or so.
As the leader wishes.

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Fair enough. Really, a plot-device-cum-signature-technique? Sure. Might be fun.

But if it's ever, EVER used in a PVP environment (or, for that matter, in the sequel, when the two PC sides aren't allied), I keel you. Seriously.
It could happen in a PvP environment. I have said, and will continue to say that the Infinity Crush is a fickle beast and is accessible only through the plot.

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Also, what the fuck? I spent at least a dozen posts hyping up the Scythetip that Impact dramatically took from Phantomere (seriously, just look at Renny's sidequest), only to be told by Mika that it won't really do very much unless I fuse it with a weapon, whereas Charlotte scoops up some slime, never mentions it again, and now it justifies an uber technique for her? There's some elementary unfairness here.
What can I say? It's a rinky dink scythetip from a weapon that wasn't really all that magical in the first place.

Tell ya what. Use the scythetip to cut a deep gash in both of your wrists. I promise it'll make you powerful.

*covers mouth so Impact doesn't see me grinning evilly*

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I'm not asking for Charlotte to not get her technique, or for Impact to get his before. But the whole "Hyping up the scythetip" thing I did was mostly because I wanted to use the Scythetip's influence to justify some of Impact's character development. When Mika told him "Well, it might improve your weapon", that hope got dashed, sadly, but I didn't argue. Until now. Cause if Charlotte can get an uber technique out of something that was merely mentioned in the passing, I'd hope that I can get some character development out of a minor plot device that I actually put effort into.
Justify how, exactly? Did you bother to send me a PM about what you wanted the scythetip to even do? All this time I thought you drilled a little hole into it and wore it as a pendant.

Your scythetip is as silly and ineffectual as Pierce's staff that...y'know, came from the same goddamned weapon? Not much to justify there.

No, wait. I got it. Impact was going to use the scythetip to slice open the throats of all his comrades in a bid to gain great power. Honestly, I dunno why you continue to claim that Impact's not evil. The fact that Impact wanted to murder Renny just because he got handpicked to be the leader, without even thinking about why, spells villain with a capital V in my book.

And let me just say that killing your friends with the scythetip does not make it or you more powerful. I'd rather you didn't entertain that thought because I'd rather I didn't find a way to kill your character in order to save everyone else.

Geminex 09-14-2010 05:58 AM

Edit: In fact, a lot of that came out wrong. I was feeling sorta down. Lemme rephrase.

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It could happen in a PvP environment. I have said, and will continue to say that the Infinity Crush is a fickle beast and is accessible only through the plot.
Eh. I can't stop you. But, when it happens, do try to keep things fair? I would be annoyed if I had set up some gambit to ensnare the other team, only to have them escape through not luck, or skill, but deus ex machina. Cause that's what this threatens to become, and being beaten because of it? Yeah, not fun. For either side, by the way, if they outsmart me, they deserve to win. Impact pulling a super move out of his ass would be bullshit.

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Justify how, exactly? Did you bother to send me a PM about what you wanted the scythetip to even do? All this time I thought you drilled a little hole into it and wore it as a pendant.
Well, I had sorta hoped that all the stuff I wrote in-character about the tip would sorta tip you off, but fair enough. The entire point was that some of Phantomere's influence would linger in the scythetip and... encourage Impact's evil side. This'd, for one, justify his becoming an asshole CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT, and, for another, give me the freedom to make a few other decisions, should they become necessary.
And hell, it's only a "rinky dink scythetip" because you say it is. If you say "It is affecting Impact's mind and making him more evil than he would be otherwise", then bam. It does that instead. If you say "It's a spaceship", it's a spaceship. Y'get my point.
In fact, screw character development. Make it a spaceship.

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Honestly, I dunno why you continue to claim that Impact's not evil. The fact that Impact wanted to murder Renny just because he got handpicked to be the leader, without even thinking about why, spells villain with a capital V in my book.
Look, there's a difference between "rational thought" and "massive rage". He was possessed by the latter. Temporary insanity and all that jazz. And he probably wouldn't have shot Renny, even if it had been practical. I don't know (I was pretty angry myself when I made that post), but that wasn't his Very Evil Moment.

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And let me just say that killing your friends with the scythetip does not make it or you more powerful. I'd rather you didn't entertain that thought because I'd rather I didn't find a way to kill your character in order to save everyone else.
Oh come on. This is from a Ruin General. Make it a source of character development, yes. Make it a source of power? Fuck no. Seriously, what gives you these ideas?

And why the threat? You can't honestly think that that was my plan. For that matter, you can't honestly think that any other character would die without your and that player's approval. Seriously, what do you take me for? Outside of PvP, no. Almost certainly not, unless, like I said, I get permission. In PvP, depends. If we play a real Free-for-all, no deals, no rules, then I'd be pissed if you stopped Impact from inflicting permanent damage.
But hell, if we make deals, if we agree on rules, if we ally, why'd I want to kill?

And even if I did, there'd be no need to threaten me with the death of my character. Like I said, if another character dies, only with your permission. I feel mildly insulted that you'd even think it necessary to warn me. Do I really seem that power-mad?

Menarker 09-14-2010 10:06 AM

I know Gem doesn't want the mission to end prematurely, but I'm personally getting tired of fighting Moera with all her delays and her respawning minions that take away all my hopes.

Would be nice if Irene infinity crushed the rest of the minions, and we're just left with fighting against Moera and Mio (packing several tons of cinderblocks to prevent being ejected again). Fight against two bosses and whatever personal power they can muster (and no minions). I mean even by himself, Phantomere was a threat. And it was exciting to deal with a threat that we couldn't analyse and only knew it was a menace even by itself. At least it would be more exciting to me than having to slog through all the minions and being disappointed when even more comes. Also means less time wasted trying to plan who attacks what. ^^;

I mean, fighting minions is to be expected for a genre like this, but when it comes to this extreme, I feel runned ragged a bit. At the very least, I want to be able to attack the boss when they send out their minions, even if it means some extended risk as the minions attack you for leaving them alive. This "she summons minions and hides behind a shield" just screams "extended minion fight" since the boss isn't actively partipicating and we can't attack it back.

At least with Cerulean Wildfire, we could attack her, even when she came with minions. That and she came packing power that was deserving of her status. Moera? Hides behind a shield and her minions and otherwise lashes out randomly with her uncontrolled emotions via a totally random weather effect? Not quite that exciting personally... but that's me.


TLDR: Bosses with minions are fine. But I don't want bosses that can't do anything but hide behind minions, especially to the point where it is basically a boosted "random battle" that we can't run from. I want bosses to be able to fight with their own ability. If we finish off their minions, they should not come back, or they should only come by trickles. That should force the boss into getting serious and fighting with his or her unique powers. (Possible exception is if we delay or take way too long and the minions come in delayed waves)

^^; And that's my little rant. Sorry.


On a side-note, for cowards or evasive foes (or something incredibly large that only have a small number of tiny weak-points that are constantly moving) it would be AWESOME if we had some sort of bitching chase-scene or multi simtanleous multi-scene battle! Trying to outmaneuver the foe, Renny riding Togekiss by air, Pierce chasing underground alongside Adamitatar, Charlotte and her Hounds of War while riding Hammond or Buck, Matthias flying under his own power with Venomoth form as he scouts the area/boss for weakpoints or stragetic locations. Impact probably working with the other NPCs giving orders like postioning the destroyer or the sniper in key ambush locations. Plus, he can probably contribute a bit too by riding Latios!

^_^

Geminex 09-14-2010 10:20 AM

I don't actually mind the slogging through minions and getting "run ragged". Mostly because, even if they're just psytellites. We're killing them. By god, we're doing damage, massive damage!

Same thing with Renny's sidequest: Sure, our side was getting hit by wave upon wave of Ruin types, and we were taking one hell of a lot of damage. But we were dealing way, way more.

And if there's one thing more satisfying that knowing you killed about 200 enemies that last battle, it's knowing that you did all the damage you could, cause you're exhausted as well.

But eh, that's just me. I don't think the minions will survive much longer anyway... if anything, Moera should be getting infinity crushed, since fighting against her will be pretty much nothing but piling attack upon attack.

Menarker 09-14-2010 10:26 AM

>_> Then maybe I'm just annoyed that I was slated to Defog duty and nothing else for the last several rounds? I mean, really, I might as well have left for a month and no one would miss my character.

Basically, you're (you and everyone else attacking) Legolas on top of the walls of Helm's Deep with your bow and arrow, shooting all the orcs and having fun with that. I'm Gimli, stuck on the wall with my melee weapon unable to make any sort of meaningful contribution until the situation changes to the point (wall blown up degree of change) where I can contribute without being called to sit on the sidelines again.

I mean, really, I'm being held hostage by the system and unable to join in the fighting because not doing so would screw up everyone else.

I mean, if it only happened once or twice and no one knew when it was going to happen, I can see the character being appreciated for utility. But as long as the source of the fog is constantly renewing every turn, the character is being locked down to prevent a fog that is known to come next turn if the required action is not done. And that takes away a lot of the enjoyment from that player (which has been me for the longest time because no one wants to do it, and everyone votes for me to do it).


As for the psytellites, I don't like them suddenly respawning all like that. I mean, why couldn't Moera have summoned all those in the first place and cause more trouble? It's all sorts of false hopes and expectations taken to the extreme. I would prefer if they had more health, but when they went down, they STAYED down. THAT would be more statisfying, and the remaining foes left would be the goal-line that I can look forward to. But with them respawning, I'm feeling adrift because it's like we're repeating the same round over again because it wasn't good enough the first time. The difficulty could have been raised by other means like the psyshades going berserk, the storm getting worse, Moera directly attacking someone. But repeating the previous round with one or two little changes takes out a lot of the excitement.

Minion fights are fine, but bosses are bosses for reasons. They should be able to summon attacks that far exceed their frame or what level of power any of us can do individually (never mind 2 or 3 of us combined). Even if we're piling attacks on her, she would probably have a myriad of attacks that would keep us on our toes. Maybe have counterattacks, or weak points that need to be unlocked like in your battle with Lexhur.

Dracorion 09-14-2010 11:30 AM

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Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo (Post 1073071)
As the leader wishes.

Goddamnit fuck you Geminex.

No, seriously, Gem should not be able to pull this bullshit. His character is leader in-RP? Sure. Geminex himself is in charge of balancing? Okay. Geminex can decide when we end battles, without consideration for the rest of our opinions? No fuck you.

Menarker 09-14-2010 11:58 AM

Language aside, I agree. Geminex is a player just like Drac, me, Bard or Dante. Despite the fact that he has been granted privileges of balancing and leadership IN THE RP, that doesn't take away that he is still a player of equal standing. His words should not have any more weight than anyone else when it comes to any particular matters. The only exception we have allowed was the LITTLE extra power he has for balancing purposes, since that was agreed on by everyone else. But that should not spill into unrelated issues.

Astral Harmony 09-14-2010 01:12 PM

Understood. I'll go ahead and end the battle tonight.

I'll also think very hard about what I can do about that scythetip. The thing that happens to Charlotte's jar of ectoplasm leaves me with very little to think about in terms of any great things for the scythetip and the staff except as weapon components.

I have a good idea as to how Impact does acquire his Infinity Crush. I just need to think it through a little. Find a way to flesh it out.

Bard The 5th LW 09-14-2010 02:41 PM

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Also, what the fuck? I spent at least a dozen posts hyping up the Scythetip that Impact dramatically took from Phantomere (seriously, just look at Renny's sidequest), only to be told by Mika that it won't really do very much unless I fuse it with a weapon, whereas Charlotte scoops up some slime, never mentions it again, and now it justifies an uber technique for her? There's some elementary unfairness awesomeness here.
Fix'd it for you.

Don't blame me for having the proper foresight to grab the seemingly insignificant item.

Dracorion 09-14-2010 03:21 PM

And Pierce at least had the sense to grab the one that was of practical use.

Face it, Gem, you fail at genre savvy.


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