The Warring States of NPF - Mass Effect 3: It Ends Here

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I should note that I personally quite like the new versions of destroy and control and if they weren't attached to the Starchild I'd be pretty happy with them. The problem is Shepard appeasing and basically being a submissive little Quisling to Harbinger wearing a kid suit (as the Refuse ending implies). Well that and Synthesis being DUUUUMMMMMMMMBBBBBBBB. Like Synthesis sounded like soemthing from the Think Tank in OWB. It makes no goddamn sense. And it's kinda grossly immoral for the reasons Snake outlined, it's basically genetic rape.

Also that Refuse is as I said before really childishly handled.

Oh BTW Arcanum I think you can get Refusal through dialogue.

Edit: I especially like how while Paragon Control Shepard comes off like a more benevolent Shai Hulud preparing to gently guide the galaxy to a peaceful golden age, Renegade Control Shep sounds minutes away from going SHODAN on everyone's asses and sticking every living thing, organic or synthetic, in safety tubes for their own protection. And possibly some experimentation.

Edit x 2: I just realised the most horrible thing about the ending that makes it undermine everything. Saren was right. The ending is Shepard proving her worth to the Reapers and them letting us live. Exactly as Saren planned to do, but succeeding. Saren was right all along, everything Shepard did was utterly meaningless.

i heard some of that online, but ME1 is the one i haven't played yet... how does it relate?

As for the whole crucible thing, the original ending does not tell me that, but via the EC i could understand that the crucible was a huge battery that could override the Reaper's control (the machine part i would imagine) giving you power to take over them (but taking over their human conscience with yours) or to destroy them (by shutting them down) as the Citadel has always been a major part of the Reaper collective... the Synthesis thing was more of a "magical ending" where the Reapers somewhat "admit defeat" by bonding Humans and machine (and apparently allowing all to retain their individuality) to create a new paradigm that would make their cycle useless... i'm not saying it's not stupid, but at least now i can understand where the writers were trying to go with this...

Saren was the main villain of ME1, a rogue turian spectre. His idea to save everybody from getting destroyed by the Reapers was to appease them and prove our usefulness in the hope that they would spare some of us when they finally came. Also notable is the fact that his main flagship was actually an ancient Reaper called Sovereign that indoctrinated him enough to have him do its bidding.

Also, another funny thing I just realized on the Saren subject is in regards to the Synthesis ending. Once the first fight with Saren is finished on the Citadel, Sovereign takes over his body and he is revealed to have become partly synthetic, much like how people would be in the Synthesis ending right? Are the Reapers still alive in the Synthesis ending? If they are, it makes think that the Synthesis ending is pretty much the Reapers taking control of everyone instead of killing them.

During the synthesis ending you can see a soldier being attacked by a Husk, then the green flash happens and the Husk stops attacking and actually raises up and starts looking around, standing next to the soldier... as if it had grown a conscience and became aware and non-hostile.

I know who Saren is, but since i didn't play ME1 i can't comment on how well they connect with the events of ME3 endings... but it's kinda like with the Illusive Man, no? He was also under Reaper influence and he was also Right... the Reaper's are controllable, just not by him...

What sort of Magical space genetics set apart Saren, TIM and Shepard i don't know... maybe it's because Shepard's ideals were stronger and actually focus on the better benefit of the whole Galaxy (which the Reapers claim to do in their own way) or maybe it's just cause he is the guy with a camera floating over his shoulder... video games!

My complaints is that if reapers really had technology all along so powerful that they could simultaneously turn every organic being into a synthetic-organic hybrid, they really should not have had to attack as they did. They'd probably just have a kill button at that point that unleashed deadly kill-waves causing everything intelligent to die.

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Originally Posted by greed (Post 1203451)

Oh BTW Arcanum I think you can get Refusal through dialogue.

Okay yeah in that case it's pretty stupid.

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Originally Posted by Pip Boy (Post 1203483)

Wasn't the crucible something designed over however many cycles, with each cycle adding new bits and pieces to the design as they tried to build it in order to stop the Reapers?

Yes... the reapers never had that ability and were, in fact, trying to prevent this. They even mentioned that they had underestimated the other races and their ability to protect and hide the Crucible from them.

Through the new Dialogue the Starchild makes it perfectly clear that Shepard proved that the Reaper's solution no longer would work and that they would need a new one, using the Crucible's Battery and override as the method to do it...

Since Shepard was the man that made it all happen and the first to make it that far into a cycle, the Reapers offered to pass control over to him, allowed him to eliminate all Synthetics or fuse the two together....

Again, not saying it's perfect... just that NOW i can see that this is where they were trying to go with this.

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Originally Posted by greed (Post 1203451)

I'd be okay with the Destroy and Control endings if the Starchild didn't appear, Shepard was negotiating with Harbinger instead, Shepard wasn't submissive in negotiations, and you actually could contact other interested parties and inform them of the terms.

...If the Geth know what 'Destroy' implies and they're like "Shepard Commander, we understand you have no choice in the matter. We will sacrifice our race so that all others may live without fearing the return of the Reapers. Just ask the Quarians to rebuild us, so we can prove the reapers wrong in a future where organic and synthetic life know true peace." That'd have been an incredibly powerful moment. And it probably would have single-handily redeemed 'Destroy' for me.

...And yes, Synthesis is the worst ending. Anyone who thinks otherwise has a very strange definition of what actions are morally acceptable.

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Also that Refuse is as I said before really childishly handled.

An extra two minutes of footage in which Shepard attempted to send an inspiring message to the fleet, attempted to rendezvous with other Citadel survivors (since Bioware is actually on record now as suggesting that there were other survivors present on the Citadel), doing anything whatsoever after the speech would have helped tremendously. His/her efforts didn't have to succeed; s/he just needed to make the effort.

EDIT: And Bells: Why couldn't the Starchild, upon suggesting that Shepard proved humanity's worth or some shit and showed the system had failed, have just offered to fly the Reapers the hell away from the Milky Way Galaxy? No need to commit genocide, no need to commit universal battery in the form of undesired genetic alteration, no need for Shepard to become Reaper Space Zombie Jesus. Shepard can just say "Hey Starchild, tell the reapers that the Andromeda Galaxy looks beautiful this time of year." Bam! Done.

The whole starchild thing seems to suggest that the Crucicble was a part of the cycle from the beginning, and that it was intended to be an override to the reaper solution should the reaper solution ever fail.

the starchild literally says they wanted the Crucible destroyed and thought they had done so, being surprised that the plans for it still existed. The "Reaper Solution" was imposed even upon those who created the Catalyst and they too resisted it.

It still doesn't make perfectly clear as to why the Reapers didn't attack the Crucible while it was under construction... the Crucible is an Override, that is made clear now. But it's not by Reaper design... maybe it has Reaper tech on it... we don't know how the previous battles went...

And it certainly seems more "practical" to find a way to Shut down this partially machine beings or take over them instead of some sort of magical space cannon to destroy every single one of them...

Also, i got the full list of changes

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Content added to or changed in Mass Effect 3 by the Extended Cut includes the following (see Priority: Earth for more details):

Cutscenes

During the final rush to the beam, Shepard's squadmates will be shown being incinerated by Harbinger's beam or getting critically wounded and evacuated to safety by the Normandy, depending on the player's EMS score.

When Shepard is making his/her choice (Destroy, Control, Synthesis), Joker is no longer seen in the flashback. Instead, a character who died during the course of the game will appear. Also, the last flashback is no longer always Liara, but whoever was Shepard's love interest.

When the Crucible achieves firing status, Admiral Hackett orders the surviving allied fleets to evacuate from Earth's orbit, thus explaining the Normandy being caught in the energy wave while in transit.

Scenes of victories against the Reapers on Thessia, Tuchanka, and Palaven.

Narrations of the aftermath depending on Shepard's choice, by Admiral Hackett (Destroy), Shepard as the new Reaper master consciousness (Control), or EDI (Synthesis).

Aftermath of various species, including humans, krogan, quarians, and geth.

Aftermath of Shepard's crew members, if they survived the war.

Surviving squadmates on Normandy place Shepard's name onto the memorial wall, with Admiral Anderson's already on it. However, if the Destroy ending was chosen, the Commander's name is not actually shown to be placed on the wall. This, coupled with the cutscene of Shepard breathing in the rubble (if the player's EMS is high enough), leaves the Commander's final fate open to suggestion.

The Normandy is seen either undergoing repairs or departing the planet it had crashed on.

Dialogue

The Catalyst's original dialogue has been largely altered and Shepard can now investigate for further information regarding Reaper origins and the specifics of the Crucible's abilities.

A fourth option is provided to the player as an alternative to the original three. Shepard can now refuse to activate the Crucible, either through dialogue or by shooting at the
Catalyst. This dooms the galaxy to another successful Reaper purge. This option triggers two unique cutscenes:

One of Liara's time capsules is shown on an unknown planet, and a recording of Liara explains that the capsule contains a record of her generation's war against the Reapers and information necessary to stop them.

After the credits, an alternate Stargazer scene is shown - a child and a female of unknown species (suggested to be from the next cycle) refer to how the previous cycle's experience helped them achieve peace.

Fixes

The required Effective Military Strength rating to achieve the best possible ending is lowered from 4,000 to 3,100.[6]

Ambient dialogue on the Normandy SR-2 between Kenneth Donnelly/Gabriella Daniels and Garrus Vakarian/Tali'Zorah is restored.[7]

Also this

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The Catalyst approaches Shepard and explains the purpose of the Reapers, their origins, and the ways in which Shepard can utilize the Crucible to stop them; Destruction, Control, or Synthesis. The availability of choices and the severity of the collateral damage on the galaxy will be determined entirely by the player's Effective Military Strength.

If EMS is between 0-1749, only one option will be availalable depending on the player's choice at the end of Mass Effect 2: Control, if Shepard saved the Collector Base, and Destroy if Shepard did not. Both will result in massive physical damage to Earth, with Destroy killing everyone on Earth.
If EMS is between 1750-2349, both Destroy or Control options are available, but either choice will cause some substantial damage to the galaxy.
If EMS is between 2350-2649, the Control option will cause no physical damage but the Destroy option will still cause widespread damage.
If EMS is 2650+ the Destroy and Control options will no longer cause any physical harm to the galaxy.
If EMS is 2800+ the Synthesis ending becomes available.
If EMS is 3100+ and the Destroy option is chosen, Shepard is seen barely alive, gasping for breath (if Anderson is shot by the Illusive Man, the player needs a higher EMS to see this short scene).