We need a 3rd party candidate!! Ron Paul for NPF Moderator 2012!!

Can we at least continue the stipulation that of the person banned is the one who is butthurt about it, they're not allowed to make the thread?

Because that's a pretty sensible stipulation.

Yeah, I'm pretty okay with that.

Or in some cases, avoid interacting with her altogether, when possible, for the same reason.

My opinion on Liz's rants:

She is almost always over the line. I don't care if I agree with the point or not, they're over the line, and I do not applaud them. In fact, they have caused me to leave threads because they're so awful towards the person they're against.


My opinion on Liz's banning:

The thing is, Liz has been told, many times, that when she's angry she goes over the line, and to cool down and leave. In fact, last time she got a temp ban, she was even told, "Anyone else and it would have been a permanent ban." I think that's telling that this wasn't a decision made to spite Liz, but instead because she's gone over the line one time too many. The fact that she was given so many pardons in the past shows that, barring the rants, she was a member of the forum who was worth keeping around. But this was (In the mod's opinion) the straw that broke the camel's back, and tipped the scale in the other direction. To me it looks like, the mods think that Liz showed that she was not willing to change her attacks towards people, and decided that even if they liked her everywhere else, it was harmful to the community as a whole to have those rants around.

I, generally, don't agree with permabanning. I think people ought to have second chances. I don't know if I agree with permabanning Liz, even if I honestly could not stand her attack rants, and am very happy to not see them anymore. On the other hand, Liz had many chances (More than a typical poster would be given), and that might be why the ban was made permanent.

That's MY opinion on it, but impartially considering the nature of the news subforum, and the actual rules, I don't think Liz ought to be banned from NPF proper. The news subforum rules say that bans would be carried out there, if people got too rambunctious, and I think those rules ought to be followed. Ban Liz from the news subforum, but until something happens outside of it that warrents banning, don't ban her from the entire forums.


My opinion on Snakes rant:

I skipped a lot of it, but I don't think having a regime change is in order. I think the mods just need to remember: The reason you have power is because there is a community here. The reason there's a community here is because people actually like to be here, not because they're forced to be here. If mods step out of line, nothing will keep the community here, doing what they're told. Mods have no real power, and to think that you do is a lie. Mods have to please the community, not the other way around. It's a sucky job.

I kind of figure that people get mad, some people more often than others. No one wants to put up with getting yelled at but I guess its just a part of the human condition. If you spend any amount of time on the internet you're inevitably going to lose your shit. Its just a question of when and where and under what circumstances.

I feel that if you like the individual enough to want to continue discourse with them in the future then give them the benefit of the doubt. Liz is an ok cat for the most part. This community is small enough that you don't really need any sort of by the book enforcement in my opinion.

What this boils down to is someone with an anger management problem and someone who that person upset who just happened to be a mod. But meh, if I were the one in charge I'd probably never perma ban anyone and just find great amusement in repeatedly temp banning the worst offenders forever. Then again I'm a pretty bored guy.

(Also I'm obviously biased since I've been pretty much ban dodging for over a year or something. I mean I'm sure that by the written law anyone could just ban me at any moment for no particular reason and I really wouldn't have much to say about it.)

Since this thread vaguely involves me, I am going to set aside an hour later tonight to read it! Beats the newspaper!

What? I thought Liz was banned for expressing her opinions in disrespectful ways and presented them as though they were 100% objective "opinions" and no other point of view could ever be valid no matter how justified it may or may not be. Because that has happened a lot. And it's the reason I don't argue with Liz, no matter about what. Because there's no use arguing with people who treat the people they are discussing things with like that.

People here make it look like Liz got banned because she was mean to Fenris. No, she was completely insufferable. Again. At least she didn't tell anyone to kill themselves this time. Don't get me wrong, I like her. But most likely only because I refuse to argue with her.

Of course I'm not a mod, so maybe Fenris really was all "fackyu liz ima ban u" I don't know.

That's a fair point too. I mean I'm not saying there was anything inherently wrong with banning her.

Given the number of second chances she'd been given I guess it makes sense. I guess I just don't get too phased by people calling me all manner of expletives on the internet. People will start screaming racist/nazi/republican at the drop of a hat anyways.

Oh and troll is something that seems to have lost its meaning in the common vernacular. I see it thrown around way too much these days.

"Hey you're wrong, I disagree with you."

"LOL TROLLLLLOLOLOL"

I probably shouldn't weigh in on this given my own feelings but I'm taking a stab at this.

Liz has had a serious history of rubbing people the wrong way. It's not like her behavior hasn't been done before. I've had my run ins and had to read Liz's tauntings where I felt that she's gone over the line but chose to ignore it and move on. So I feel that it's more or less karma here. Yes, I stopped talking to her because if I ever did, the supposed backlash is something I just didn't appreciate myself.

Having said that, it's sad to have to watch the same thing over and over. Other people have been banned much sooner for what Liz got away with in regards to berating others for perceived slights. Why? That's just uncalled for in a forum. I think the best advice I ever got here from Krylo was to move from the keyboard if I ever got angry so I don't say anything I regret. And Krylo was saying that to someone else while I read it on TWC.

How many times should this same thing repeat? The community should be more important than the individual in some circumstances and everyone knows the rules. Maybe Liz is an ok person, but after a while, it just felt like she took this forum way too seriously in a number of areas.

(Yeah, I'm biased against Liz, but that doesn't mean I ever wanted to see her banned. Maybe after a while she can come back.)