There have been day investigation POs before, so he could have during the day. Usually they'll come with some restriction, like potentially wrong, or one shot, or something. Also, like you, he could have started with knowledge of someone's role. There are several possiblities for the specifics, and I'm certainly not saying my suspicions are enough to act on by any means. Just, my something senses are tingling.

Same reason I didn't post as much, we try to keep up on the topic but then you and Nikose rip it out of the ground and run off laughing like SpongeBob. It's intimidating trying to squeeze in a post when walls of text grow within five minutes.

That was answering Snake's question to Ryanderman.

nikkkk. voooteeee nicckkkkk

Holy fuck you guys, I go to work for a couple hours and I come back to 15 pages of posts.

Lemme work through the backlog as the relevant bits stuck out to me.

You wound me.

I've been saying we should get rid of the inactives since almost the very beginning, it's nice to see that folks are coming on board.

With that in mind

VOTE: Julford Hajime

until a better suggestion comes along.

I'm too lazy to track it down amongst the 60+pages of posts, but what he actually said was that the cult couldn't turn him. He said nothing about being bullet proof.

I would actually be okay with this as a lynch plan B.

Last Wednesday: Flew from San Francisco to Atlanta for Team Building Exercise.
Thursday: Spent all day in a conference room doing a team compentition business simulations (we sold imaginary computers in South America like nobody's business!)
Friday: Finished simulation, flew to New York (Buffalo). Dealt with crisis, as wife missed her flight from San Francisco to Buffalo, and had to go on stand by to a later flight. Finally arrive around 1:30 AM. Her bag was left in San Fran, ended up staying in the Buffalo airport the entire time we were in NY
Saturday: Preped for and had wedding reception for all the folk in New York who couldn't come to our wedding in Florida
Sunday: Went to church and hung out with people's I haven't seen in years.
Monday: More spending loads of time with family and friends in NY.
Tuesday: Flew home. Flight was canceled, had to go stand by for last flight of the day, was rerouted through Las Vegas, ended up catching the last BART of the night. Got home around 1:30 AM. Bags were left in Buffalo.
Wednesday: Drove an hour and a half south through crazy San Jose traffic to do vibration testing for my job. Drove 2 hours back. Their waiting room is under construction, sp they have no computers, and I had limited internet access on my pohone.
Thursday: Rinse and repeat.
Today: Finally had a break at work, wrote my post, did some work. Came back a bit later and went, oh hey, I never posted that. Posted it, then saw you calling me out.

Ok, well I've got work for the next 8 hours, so you guys bicker among yourselves and see if you can develop some more suspects.

This made me look for his post.

Turns out Karesh does only claim an invulnerability to Cult. So Hawk's suggestion to have the Vig test Karesh was a really bad on.

he said later on he was bullet proof, Also the Vig attacking Karesh doesn't role prove because well unless he reveals himself it's useless and if he does we lose the vig

The only thing we'd learn if it didn't work is the name of the pony that's the Vig (and we think the Vig is Rainbow Dash at this point), not the player's name.

Like "Rainbow Dash tried to take out Fluttershy, but Fluttershy survived!" Or some such.

Unless Fenris follows the method of not mentioning failed night attacks.

Surely killing me D4 is much much worse day four will be very close to the endgame unless we luck out and killing me then to prove a role claim seems rather counter intuitive.

My walls are rarely joking. It's my one-off sentences that are usually simple and silly.

GOD LEARN TO READ SNAKE

Trufax

I'm home but in like 5 minutes I won't have any more internet. so Imma VOTE: JULFORD for now and if he's not dead by morning, will read additional evidence then.

Given the shellacking Cult was just dealt, I highly doubt we'll be anywhere near endgame by D4, particularly since if there's an SK and a Cult in this game, the Mafiate is probably smaller than usual / Town has powers to compensate. Hell, Homestuck Mafia didn't end D4 and that game was a series of terrible blunders by Town and a Mafiate never died.

You don't need to keep doing that.

Oh, shit. I could have sworn I mentioned later on that it was a terrible idea for a doctor or anything to protect me since the mafia wouldn't work either.
It's actually worded as "Immune to night targeting"

Oh, yeah. I just re-checked. You did mention that mafia targeting wouldn't work on you either.

My bad.

I can't really determine whether Karesh is being honest or if this is an ingenious plan for a scummate to avoid an investigator scanning him because he's "immune to night targeting."
Fortunately I don't think it's a question we need to answer just yet, unless Karesh is the strongest scum role who really just wants to get one of his powerful abilities off before he's killed.

There's something I find inherently skeptical about any "immune to night targeting" roles. I mean, that's almost a brokenly powerful role.

And for a fellow Townie in Sifright to presumably be offered the critical tidbit of information that "Fluttershy is town?"

Here's why I don't necessarily buy this:
1) If he can't be nightkilled or converted, the only way Cult, SK or Scum can get rid of Karesh is by lynching him.
2) If Sifright (another Townie, presumably) is told who Fluttershy is and can announce this, Scum, SK and Cult can no longer lynch Karesh. The entire weakness built into the character design is nullified.

Particularly since it makes intuitive sense to lynch Sifright before Karesh because Sifright flipping Town means that Karesh is Town and Karesh will remain alive for the rest of the game, unencumbered. It's like a free pass, a guaranteed Townie who we can not only trust implicitly as confirmed but who also cannot be eliminated by Scum or Cult or SK by any means.

My reaction to this isn't "Oh, what a huge break for Town!" My reaction to this is "Fenris knows how to balance games better than this, he's not going to give Town a free handout of a confirmed Townie who cannot be killed."

Well remember Sif didn't know what my role was, only that I was Fluttershy.
With almost any other person in mafia I don't think you could find somebody so stupidly honest as me, and speaking realistically I think the events and circumstances that lead up to what is potentially a righteous boon to the town (lol modesty) were rather unique.

If he's being honest, not many players under Sif's position would have revealed they knew something special to begin with, let alone specifically that it was related to one player who may have a power role.

And, again, given my position I think it's fair to say that not many would consider openly revealing their roles at such an early stage. Even given the security involved in mine, a role claim of this level is a magnet for suspicion. But I'm taking that gamble.

Truth be told, as you said earlier I could have baited Sif more, but I felt that having a drawn out back and forth between the two of us could have...I suppose the word would be 'tainted' the truth. That it would seem more like a spiteful attempt to kill him off than a genuine attempt to get my role and place in the town into the open.

Also
No.

You're missing my point.
Whether Sif knows your role is irrelevant. What's important is that Sif is told that you are Fluttershy (and let's face it, Fluttershy is never under any circumstances a character presumed to be a Mafiate.)

So the conundrum here is simply this: If true, Sif has been given information that would effectively, if played correctly by Sif (admittingly, he jumped the gun) would prevent any lynch attempt on you. Whether or not Sif even knows that "Karesh is Town," the prerequisite two-minute Wikipedia research would inform him that Fluttershy's a good pony, and so if all of this is true, Town-Sif is given the incentive to specifically go to bat for you.

And there's a huge problem with that.
Like, it's not unbelievable that Karesh would be given a Townie role that's unnightkillable and can't be converted. But such a role needs a weakness. The weakness of the role is that Scum, SK, Cult, etc. need to be able to lynch you. And Sifright knowing that you're Fluttershy eliminates that possibility unless Sifright happens to be killed before he can reveal what he knows, which is very unlikely. (He'd tell us what he knows before he'd let himself get lynched.)

For that matter, it's not unbelievable that Sifright, as Town, would be given information in the form of the knowledge of the identity of one other Townie. But it is unbelievable that the knowledge he'd have would correspond to the one and only person who cannot be targeted at night. He effectively would then be given the power to stop the lynching of the one Townie whose one and only weakness is an ability to be lynched.

But here's what really doesn't make sense to me, this hemming and hawing at the notion that Sifright could possibly still be scum, almost as if you want to have an excuse to rely upon in the event that Sifright actually is lynched and he flips Mafiate.
It's like you want to be able to say: "Whoops! Well, I did account for the possibility that he'd flip Scum. Clearly he and his scummates just made up the idea that he knew who Fluttershy was and I just so happened to jump the gun and reveal who I was before bothering to test his knowledge adequately. I'm still Town, and by the way, you still can't investigate me."

Yeah, I'm feeling more comfortable with the idea that Fluttershy just might be a Scum safe-listed role that Karesh is exploiting.

I'm not gonna say Fenris is a super genius or that he's a total moron, but there's definitely a very large possibility that he just didn't see this shit coming. Truth be told, when I heard of Sifrights role I sort of suspected it was a roulette power that let him know the role of one pony, which just happened to be me. And Fenris without really considering the points you've laid out allowed him to enter the game with that knowledge.

Or, even if he had there's still a significant possibility of mafiate or SK victory at this point. At the end of the day I can't actually do anything to them any more than a regular townie can. Eventually they'll need to be the majority anyway, so all my role really means is they're going to have to save me for the last of the ponies.


To the latter point I really wasn't trying to paint anything like that. I just noticed that after I'd made my claim that someponies were calling it confirmed for both of us. I know I'm Town, so I know they're right when they say "Oh well Karesh is town" but I also know the town won't get too far if they take all this at face value. You can totally trust me, but logically speaking until later in the game when we can get more thorough confirmation on my role, you really shouldn't. Cause being that trusting is tantamount to mass town suicide.

Nikose 1
Verifiedz

Solid Snake 1
Nikose

Julford Hajime 1
Snake

Sifright 2
Sifright
Geminex

10 to lynch, deadline eventually

Also I hate to try and paint my own portrait here but I'm not one for double mobius roulette bullshit. If I was fully aware that Sifright was lying, why would I continually draw more attention to him and by proxy my own guilt?

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I agree with IHMN.

Wait.
Is IHMN suggesting that RD and FS is the best pairing or that Rainbow Dash should try to murder me?
Because on second thought I'd like to clarify that I am decidedly more in favor of one proclamation than the other.

would about solid snake? im starting to think about him. he is typing too much that i dont bother to read. im guessing every third letter is mafia code for something. someone convince me more and i wont vote nikose

I think IHMN stated agreement that you, Karesh, are Fluttershy. Then he stated his surprise that Snake thinks Fluttershy is a safe-listed role for Scum and wants Rainbow Dash (our supposed Vig) to test your claimed immunity to nightkills.

http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/a.../Applejack.gif

http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/a...a245o1_500.png

...Does that mean you don't like FlutterDash?

Ahahaha he doesn't like all my words
You know at this point I think I'd wear a Verifiedz vote against me as a badge of honor
It'd be like "Verifiedz hates me"
"This is proof that I am in fact Town"

im so confused. i dont watch my littly pony. although i do play with them.jk

ahhds ka alright i dont think that means anything. it must be some other code.

Actually, this is an altogether solid idea, particularly because I'd feel exceptionally confident with both Karesh and Sifright's claims assuming Karesh lives
Of course, it only is a feasible option if the Vig has unlimited kills; if his kills are limited he shouldn't waste a limited-use shot trying to take a presumably invulnerable character off.
Also if you are in fact Vig don't respond to this or acknowledge it in any way shape or form seriously k thx

I'm still not sure about that course of action.

However, I guess if the Vig was to waste a nightkill, it'd be preferable for that to be done earlier in the game when it's less definite who's Scum.

While I can't honestly say I'm in favor of wasting a night kill statistically we'd be more likely to see the death of a mafiate anyway, yes?
So I suppose if the Vig feels up to the idea she's free to stop by Casa la Fluttershy to get stared into submission.

In fact OPEN CHALLENGE. Lets have the weirdest goddamn night post ever. EVERYPONY TARGET ME. Mafia, POs, Doctors, SK and Vig. EVERYPONY IS INVITED TO MY HOUSE.
THERE WILL BE CAKES.

Gah LESS likely to see the death of a mafioso/scum in general than a townie.
I is tired. I is sorry.

Alright, just got back and read the backlog. My thoughts.

-Sif's suicide attempt struck me as odd. Almost like a bluff, as though we wouldn't kill him if he tried to encourage it. RPG did it though so maybe he's just genuinely offing himself?

-There seems to be solid reasoning against Julford, I don't know his normal habits though. I'd pitch a vote for him if I could see more reasoning.

-Verified seems rickety. Liek, I don't think he's scum, but he might very well be an ineffective town and that can be dangerous. Like, last game, Earl knew I was scum and instead voted RPG at the behest of both me and Fenris, who was also scum. A bad Townie can be just as dangerous as scum if left to lie.

- Ryanderman jumping in once the hoof of suspicion was cast upon him struck me as odd. HOS: Ryanderman

- I was at first inclined to believe that Sanke was pretty much town, but Smarty is sort of a shocking swerve because I trusted him for many of the reasons I trusted Snake, so yeah I'm going to be a bit leery of everyone now.

- I feel suspicious of Geminex. He was pretty eager to go for Sif's suicide. However, i'm withholding a vote on him because I already think Sif is a little bit suspicious for reasons lifted above.

I guess right now I'll cast my vote. Vote: Julford Hajime

RELATED

http://localhostr.com/file/T3bG5ac/6...ony_part_2.gif

If we could all observe proper voting technique, that'd be fantastic awesome.

so no one else thinks snake is mafia?

If you're seriously going to try to get me lynched, I'd strongly suggest you articulate reasoning for believing that I'm Scum that goes beyond "Snake types a lot of shit that I don't bother to read."

I mean that's pretty a null-tell with me, regardless of what role I'm assigned, I'm going to type too much text for poor Verifiedz's mind to handle.

ZING

damn brotha. you got me there. im staying with nik. good job

You clearly have the most appropriate user title in the history of the forum.

This sounds solid in theory, but have we established for certain that there IS a serial killer? Someone earlier today suggested that the entire cult fell just because smarty (the supposed leader) did and that the rest of the "deaths" were simple flavor text.

This is my first mafia game so I'm not altogether sure how power roles usually work...

Also, Fenris, I voted earlier but it was buried in amongst a multi-quote so I'll repost:

Vote: Julford Hajime

*sigh*

I was trusting your judgment of which of the inactives to target, Snake. I guess that's what I get for not doing my own research. :(

Anyway, I'm for booting an inactive and I'll stick with your choice for now.

Unvote: Julford Hajime

Vote: Fawfulcopter

Wow, lots of posts to catch up on. Can someone sparknotes it for me?

I'm going to try to catch up later, but I figure I ought to let you guys know that I'll be busy-ish, and probably not around too much.

And I have caught up.

Time to collapse into bed, and digest it all.

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Until other developments arise . . .

Vote: Fawfulcopter

Silently watching the thread explode while offing people every night would be a really sweet gig for mafia.

DERP, BAD VOTE

Vote: Fawfulcopter

Yes that is exactly correct guys I am a mafia player who is pulling a suicide gambit where in i vote my self to try and die so that you don't lynch me...... It's all just a bluff.

Thats why i'm voting to lynch my self and am trying actively to get every one else to lynch me to prove kareshs role.

Vote: Sifright

I haven't trusted him all game and now he wants us to call his bluff. I am inclined, upon hearing the words, "call my bluff" to do just that, because it's the last thing people expect. And if we can confirm one way or the other kareshs role then it'll be worth it.

actually my exact words are "Please do kill me" I mean seriously guys what the fuck. It's no bluff but you guys are acting like it is. Since when do fucking mafia ever go "Vote for me!" but regardless please do kill me safest way to prove karesh is fluttershy and killing me on day 4 like snake suggested is pants on head retarded by that point it's usually mislynch and town lose.

UNVOTE:NIKOSE

VOTE:FAWFUL

There's ways to prove it without you getting lynched, lets at least wait and see if the Vig will take this shot at me or not.
Or, alternately, if this party will go down.

Vote: Fawfulcopter

Hilarity:
Town aligned roles all target Karesh; mafia and SK are going to completely ignore him, attack random people, we will be down 2 roles.

Snake suggested course of action, confirming Snake to be the SK to me.

Sticking with voting Snake.

Yea I don't agree with having all the town power roles being used on karesh it's rather silly.

Also guys when you lynch me my request is you lynch the hell out of nikose because fuuuuck is he suspicious.

Suspicious actions: Pointing out a bad plan.

Completely not suspicious actions: posting walls of text that force those who disagree into submission because it's easier to agree then put up with 3 posts in a row that are more essays, from a University student who's studying the art of Writing Much and Saying Nothing.

This is the man that we all are siding with here. I'm going to point that out, and remind you all again, this is the man that made arguments more illogical than mine, and continuously bashed my own- Arguments that Sifright agrees with, actually.

Despite how 'scummy' it apparently is to enjoy a game and continue acting as I normally do [That is, silly and casually accusatory], I'm actually writing a post with some seriousness to say, He's clearly the SK and stands out like a sore thumb, and if he survives tonight, we have a worse than 1 in 4 chance to lose one of our 3 power roles [Vig, PO, BG].


TL;DR Doing the maths after this point here:


Wait I'm actually going to do the math for that.


Currently 18 Players; assume 5 mafiates, 1 SK, 11 Town, 1 confirmed immune town.

Mafia kills 1 of 12 people. 3 of those are likely power roles[BG, Vig, PO].
Ergo, Mafia swing has a 1 in 4 chance of hitting a power role.

SK targets among the 16 players, and has a 1 in roughly 6 chance of hitting a friendly role, or a 1 in ~3 chance of hitting a mafiate right now.

Now Back to the good Part [Logic]:

So, NO, Town power roles, do not just hit Karesh tonight. Sifright was a better vote target as a way of confirming and not wasting night kills, BUT EVEN SO we could completely ignore Sifright and Karesh, have night roles act freely as they are meant to, so the Bodyguard could defend anyone they wished, Vig could swing and have a chance to hit a legitimate target, and PO could investigate, I dunno, ANYONE [Like Me, or Ryanderman, or Snake, or Sifright.]

The thing that leads me MOST against Snake was his continual Overthinking of Karesh's role when there's no reason to continue down that path. RO did that earlier today* [Game day] and Snake has been doing it continuously. There's no logic to "Aha you have fallen into my trap of voting for someone voting randomly and joining a bandwagon" "But what if Fenris knew we'd know that we knew that he chose to..." Snake is smarter than that. He's making purposeful bad faith arguements against Karesh, the only role that HE CANNOT KILL, and when he could not lead a lynch, opted to lead ALL THE TOWN'S NIGHT ACTIONS against Karesh.

If there is a scummier action then encouraging the entire town to blast Karesh, and waste every night action we have?

Snake is making arguments that would make Descartes proud.

Nikose makes some very good arguments there... despite my misigivings earlier.

Although your continued insistence that he is the SK is a little perturbing.

What role would you see him in, beyond SK? He always talks about finding Mafia, doubted the existence of an SK despite there clearly being one [Cluckles], and maybe most damning of all, did try to see a town outcry against Karesh, the only confirmed unkillable were he an SK.

It seems logical to me that he's the SK. He fits the role perfectly.

When you think about it, he was especially disturbed by the implications of my role. Who would such a role threaten the most? Not Mafia, they win when their number comprises half the remaining town. Even with only one Mafiate, they can win.

An SK, though? He can only win when he's the last pony standing.
Unless the SK gets me lynched he cannot win!

VOTE: SOLID SNAKE

We've seen through you, Seen your true colors.

im sticking with fawfull

Nikose makes some good points, I still think he is a mafiate though but I think your reasoning for snake appears to be solid, based mainly on your intial urge to kill me to prove kareshs role claim.

I don't care if you think I'm a mafiate- I'm more concerned with ridding the town of the SK, so that we have only one anti-town kill role at night. Then the PO can [relatively safely] step forward, confess his investigates, and Bodyguard can protect him each night.

Meaning that PO could build a decent collection of either Dead Mafiates or Confessed known towns, until the bodyguard gets hit/killed.

Follow my line of thinking, cause I'm not saying it right. :P

I actually agree with you Ideally i'd want some way to have conclusive proof that Snake is SK before we kill him but there is enough circumstantial evidence to potentially warrant a lynch.

unvote: Myself

Vote: Snake

Although i'm still interested to know what else we can see before day ends.

Also, You could probably find a much better Whooves Avatar than that.

like this one:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-__Mwt9NUyF...45-d3j1fvv.png