Are YOU a Pokemon Master?!
 

ADVANCE NOTICE TO MODS: This is a thread to discuss the possibilty of something like this occuring. In an effort to garner the most attention, I have placed it in the General Discussion forum (where Pokemon has recently received quite a bit of discussion). If this idea is actually to become a reality, it would obviously take place in the more-appropriate Gaming forum. However, if you feel this discussion should be moved there, please feel free to do so.

It seems quite a few people around these parts are interested in Pokemon recently. Upon noting this, and also noting that a couple of people have PMed me about a potential league, I figure I'll go ahead and pitch this out on these forums to see if any of this grand userbase would want to do something like this.

WARNING: GIANT WALL OF RULES AND REGULATIONS! CLICK AT YOUR OWN RISK!==================================================

Welcome one and all to the Pokemon League!

This is a place where those who dare can challenge the league of Gym Leaders to epic battles of Pokemon, in an attempt to become the Champion of the Pokemon League!

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This basically works like any other Pokemon gym challenge. It's done with real games, over the Nintendo wifi. (Shoddy battlers and other virtual players need not concern themselves with this league.) Since this is actual PvP gaming, special rules will be put into place to provide a more challenging path for any who would dare to challenge the league.

As I have done in the past, I will be administrating the league, and as such will be appointing four Gym Leaders to begin this. I intend to start out as one of the gym leaders (given that I'm already prepared), so that leaves three positions left to fill. If you wish to apply to become a Gym Leader, please send a PM to me with the subject line "Gym Leader Application", and answer the following questions:

- What pokemon type will your gym be, and why? (Don't name pokemon you will be using unless it's part of the reason!)
- What city will your gym be located in? (This can be a current city in the world of Pokemon, or one you make up.)
- What will your badge be called?
- Why do you think you would make a great Gym Leader?

Applications will be accepted until three worthy leaders present themselves, whereupon the Gym Leaders will be declared, and the games shall begin! If the league grows in size, more Gym Leaders may be considered. I'd honestly like to have eight, but I'm starting small here.

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THE RULES

Basic League Rules

Quote:

- 4th Generation settings must be used. (Diamond, Pearl, Platinum, Heart Gold, Soul Silver) - Battles will be 6 on 6 Lv. 100 Matches. (Don't worry - the game can automatically set your pokemon at that level for the battle.) - Both the gym leader and challenger are allowed substitutions. - The first trainer to obtain all badges offered will be crowned the League Champion. - Any player obtaining all offered badges afterwards must challenge the current Champion to obtain Champion status. The winner gets the title, and the loser must start from scratch. - A Gym Leader, after obtaining every other badge but their own, may step down from their position to challenge a replacement Gym Leader (inducted by them), and then challenge for the title of Champion. - A trainer may not be both Gym Leader and Champion. - The Champion, while not restricted by type, is obligated to follow the code of the Gym Leaders regarding accessibility.

Gym Leader Accessibility Rules

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Gym Leaders will be expected to maintain a minimum set of accessibility guidelines: - Establish some gym information in your forum signature (Battling Friend Code, Gym Name, etc.). - Set at least one specific hour per week where anyone is free to challenge your gym, and post the time(s) in your sig. - Challengers may challenge you in whatever way they can reach you (forum post, PM, messenger, etc.). They are to be played on a first-come-first-serve basis. - Remain active. One hour a week may not be much, but it is still a commitment required of a Gym Leader. - Encourage good sportsmanship. Remain unbiased and free from ultra-reactionary emotions, win or lose. If it is determined that a Gym Leader is not fulfilling their duties properly, they can be closed down and replaced with another Gym upon decision of the administrator (me).

League Clauses

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- Sleep/Freeze Clause - Only one Pokemon may be asleep/frozen at the same time as another. You can, however, have one asleep and one frozen at the same time. Once one unfreezes, that Pokemon or another may be put back to sleep. Pokemon asleep due to the effects of Rest, Effect Spore, or accident do NOT count towards that limit. (Ex.: one trainer switches out a pokemon that was frozen by ice beam, and the other player used another ice beam on that swap-out turn, freezing a second pokemon) - Dodge Clause - Moves that increase or decrease evasion or accuracy are banned. (Ex.: Minimize, Lock-On, Sweet Scent, Sand Attack) - OHKO Clause - Moves that cause a One-Hit Knock Out are also banned. (Ex.: Guillotine, Fissure, Sheer Cold) - Species Clause - Each Pokemon on your team must be of a different species. A different Pokedex number means it's a different species. - Hax Clause - Luck-based items, a.k.a. "hax" items, may not be used. These are items that, through a percentage chance, give pokemon a special advantage. (Ex.: Quick Claw, Focus Band, Scope Lens, King's Rock, Razor Fang) - Self-KO Clause - If both players are down to their last Pokemon and one uses a move that kills itself, such as Explosion, Self-Destruct, Destiny Bond, or Memento, the trainer who used that move is considered the loser of the match. - Uber Clause - The following pokemon, considered "uber", may not be used in gym battles: Code: Arceus Darkrai Deoxys (all forms) Dialga Garchomp Giratina (all forms) Groudon Ho-oh Kyogre Latias Latios Lugia Manaphy Mew Mewtwo Palkia Rayquaza Shaymin (all forms) Wobbuffet Wynaut Please take note that this list includes some pokemon that are non-legendary, and omits some that are legendary. Let it be known that both challenging trainers AND Gym Leaders must follow all clauses set forth here, or that trainer/leader will be disqualified.

Gym Leader Insurance Policy

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Because of the aforementioned extra challenge in a PvP format, Gym Leaders will be given special handicaps to prevent instaloss, thus adding extra challenge and cultivating fairness. These allowances are as follows: - Tweak Rules - A Gym Leader, at his or her discretion, may institute up to two custom rules for their gym WITHIN REASON. (Ex.: 3 on 3 match instead of 6 on 6 match, only one item type allowed per pokemon, only one self-KO move allowed per team, etc.) If made, the Gym Leader must also follow those rules and display them somewhere in public view (perhaps a Gym post?). - Wildcard Pokemon - A Gym Leader is allowed one wildcard pokemon per two gym type pokemon, rounded down. (Ex.: 6v6 matches = 2 wildcard; 5v5-4v4-3v3 matches = 1 wildcard.) A wildcard pokemon is a pokemon that does not match the gym's type. - Challenger Pokemon Restriction - A Challenger may only have two of any type of pokemon that would have an advantage over a gym's type, and dual-type pokemon count once towards each type. (Ex.: a Normal type gym could not be challenged by more than two rock, ghost and steel pokemon, but could be challenged by two of each.) - Challenger Move Restriction - Of the 24 moves available over 6 pokemon, a Challenger may only have up to 4 of each movetype that would be super effective against the gym, with the exception of Normal and Electric gyms, where 6 are allowed. (Ex.: an ice type gym could not be challenged with more than four fire, fighting, rock or steel moves, but could be challenged with up to four of each [16 total moves in this instance].) - If the challenger or leader believe the Insurance Policy has been breached, they may request a Trade view of your pokemon team after the battle. If such a view is unable to be accomodated, the trainer in question will be automatically disqualified. Such a disqualification can be appealed to the administrator (once again, me).

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This has turned out to be a rather solid (albeit lengthy) set of rules that has worked out nicely when running this at other places. The largest problem I face when running one of these seems to be finding participants that actually own the game with wifi and are willing to participate. (This is meant to be a FULLY LEGAL game, after all.) Comments would be greatly appreciated; specifically, comment on whether or not this is something you'd want to participate in, and whether or not you would be able to.

Is this purely with the DS, or can people with Battle Revolution join in? I haven't been able to get my DS hooked up to Wifi, but I'm quite interested in this idea.

EDIT: In retrospect, I am probably the only person who has/will admit to having Battle Rev. Never mind. :/

Yeah, this is purely DS... sorry. :(

Ah well. That just gives me an excuse to get off my lazy ass and hook it up. :D

I don't know why OHKO or luck based items or dodge things are banned. Or the sleep/freeze restriction.
Is there some sort of unbeatable super-combo involving these or something?
And all those things are some of my favourite strategies.

Honestly, I don't know the details on them. However, other people have assured me that they are standard rules for any Pokemon tournament. My best guess for each:

- OHKO moves can be abused on (and by) tank types
- Luck based items can bring a pokemon up to hax level (example: Serene Grace Togekiss w/Air Slash & King's Rock = way too much flinching)
- Dodge stuff makes the battle one-sided or endless
- Sleep/Freeze can be abused by speed types to lock down an entire team

The way I see it, these rules were imposed to make the game more fun and less one-sided.

Well I don't use any of the uber pokemon mentioned but like three on my standard team use one of the moves in those clauses. So fuck your clauses!

Also, substitutions = horrible. Every freaking time I've had a battle where substitutions are allowed, it's not even a battle, it's a god damn fashion show.

Depending on how hard it is to participate in a battle, though, I will consider trying to become the Champ at some point.

I might try challenging this, but holy crap so many restrictions.

I am intrigued; this is the first time I've heard so many negative comments about the restrictions. These restrictions actually aren't mine; they're from official tournaments. <_<; I'm sure if people could all agree on changes, changes could be made. What I've posted here is the main guideline; it isn't written in stone.

There are a good bit of unexplained restrictions on here, like the Challenger Move and Pokemon restrictions. They seem rather pointless, considering the entire basis of the game is a rochambeau of type-fighting.

Yes, and thus they're made by stop having fun guys and are given a crazy focus on some things. I mean, geez, Wobbufet and Wynaut on the uber list? Oh, right, of course, they completely break the game when you have pokémon specially trained to be one kind of attack - physical or special - only. Having a restriction on number of moves and pokémon of a certain type is also weird - I can see the problem with unrestricted use of, say, fire pokémon in a ice gym, but the number of moves, too? That's a bit excessive and will require more regulation on each and every battle. And if you want to get rid of items because of the luck factor, well, dang, there goes every move with a high critical ratio, too, it's luck.

Yeah, team building is an integral part of Pokémon and limiting it like that just makes it harder and greatly limits the pokémon people will use in each and every gym. Do Gym Leaders have to post what pokémon they have? It gives the challenger an option to counter - and hard.

I'd like to add that having Wobuffet/Wynaut on the uber list is only a required thing if everyone'll go crazy championship mode where you have physical and special sweepers and no hybrids of any kind - and even then, 50% chance to get it right each turn.

Ryong, what you said about Wobby would be correct, but it has Encore ever since the Third Gen. It actually is a game breaker.

They're made by "stop having fun" guys? I don't know about you, but I certainly wouldn't have any fun as an ice gym leader facing six fire pokemon. The rules are put down to make things equal for both sides.

EDIT: Also, yes; between Shadow Tag (Wobbuffet's ability), Encore, and Wobbuffet's defenses, an opponent's pokemon could be locked into using a move it doesn't want to use over and over again, while the person with the Wobbuffet just counters it or switches out and obliterates the opponent's pokemon with something else.

...I totally didn't know Wobbuffet had Encore.

Not letting people use most items, because they rely on a luck factor? See, if Serene Grace makes Togekiss crazy good with items, just...Ban it? There's always a luck factor, but if it gets broken completely, then ban it like it gets done with other pokémon.

I tell you what then - get back with me on a list of every single pokemon that could abuse every single luck-based item out there. Once I get that list, I won't have to ban those items; I can just ban the pokemon!

1) I am the greatest pokemon master and fuck you.

2) I am totally interested in this.

3) I need to finish leveling my team on Pearl first. I just restarted and I all I have is my Raichu right now. [Also reserving electric gym.][Also I think I win by default for reasons only Newb knows.]

For a sec I thought this might be an RP... now I am sad.
I totally had fire gym in the bag...

But yeah, sold my DS a while ago.

My problem with the luck based banning is it seems way similar to super smash brothers where they ban all items because "They too random, ZOMG! How can we play!" The games are all luck based and hhave probabilities built into them. YOu can take this into account when you build.
If there is a genuine breakage of the game then that is a problem but every other time I've seen luck-based stuff banned it's because "Oh noes! Luck based attacks are 4 newbs. No way do they involve skill! Lamzor!"

I was totally going to do the Smash Brothers comparison, dammit.

But surely if we're a tightly knit community we can just regulate ourselves and go "Don't be a dick and abuse the hell out of the game". I'd like to think every player knows the balance of this and the point is to have fun (Oh and winning, but not to the point where you anger the community.)

Also, screw you and your DS's! I wanted virtual dammit.

I'm interested in this, but I haven't picked up my Pearl version in over a year, and I don't know if I can muster the willpower to raise a whole new team.

I'm also chiming in about the rules being unnecessarily strict; the challenger restrictions are completely pointless, as exploiting your opponent's type weaknesses is a main element of the game. If you want to place a restriction, why not make challengers face all the gyms with the same team of six instead? That seems like a better way to implement strategy and balance to me.

About the dodge clause: moves that increase your own evasion such as Double Team or Minimize are banned because they give defensive Pokemon too great an advantage, but moves that lower the opponent's accuracy or evasion are not generally banned because you can reset your stat ups and downs just by switching out. Although Acupressure can raise your own Evasion, personally I don't think it warrants banning due to the randomness of the move.

Also, Quick Claw and Brightpowder are the only "hax" items that are commonly prohibited. King's Rock doesn't add a straight 10% chance to moves that can already flinch; it adds less the higher the base chance is. For example, it adds a straight 10% to a Golduck's Surf, but it only adds 8% to a Poliwrath's Waterfall and merely 4% to a Serene Grace Togekiss's Air Slash. Focus Band has such low chance of activating that it's practically useless. Scope Lens and Razor Claw are potentially powerful, but keep in mind that since each Pokemon can only hold one item, by equipping these unpredictable, low-activation items they're foregoing the guaranteed, reliable usefulness of items like Leftovers, Focus Sash, or Lum Berry.

I don't think the challenger restrictions are really that strict, you can still have a complete lineup that has resistances against a gym's type, except against dragons.
Same with the movesets, you get 4 super effective moves per weakness, except when dealing with electric or normal, and those are the only types with just one weakness. So you can put at least one super effective move on each of your pokemon, and you often don't want more than that to avoid limiting your options, especially when wildcards and resistant dual-types can come into play.

Damnit, now I have to go play pokemon some more to get a well-set-up team to play this with.

Just a few notes on the regulations:

Banned pokemon: Yes
Limites on Sleep/Freeze: Yes
Banned Items: Needs a bit more thought maybe
Gym Leader Pokemon Types: No.

Lets face it, in the TV shows they started out as Water/Rock/Fire gym leaders, but the TV show is for pansy little girls and this is OUR show. What if we were to let the gym leaders pick something other than a specific TYPE of pokemon for their gym, such as an overall theme. Perhaps on gym leader can focus on fast pokemon and another go with pokemon based on dogs. (between Arcanine, Houndoom, Evee^7, there are plenty of options there). This makes it so that a player can have an idea of what to expect going into a gym, but allow the gym leader to retain enough variety in their list to not get owned by one pokemon. Another way this can be done is by having challengers register a pokemon list of up to maybe 12 or 16 before the start, and allow them only to use those unless they start over with a new list. This way challengers have the room they need to tweak their team a little here and there, but can't go all out with a whole new set specifically designed for each new gym leader.

Later, I need to go play pokemon now.

EDIT: And as a means of tracking a challenger's progress in our little home-made pokemon thing, we could use this as a means of displaying our current progress and team. The forum doesn't allow images in signatures, but I'm pretty sure a while back they permitted them if you use the [hidden] tags around them so they don't take up space.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/d...NISAWESOME.png

Here is an example. It shows 6 pokemon, a friend code (to make finding each other more convenient without a SWARM of PM's going to each gym leader, and shows how many badges one has so each challenger can track their progress (assuming we have each leader assigned to a badge and they are fought in a specific order)

There seems to be a general consensus on the "overbanning" of certain items. What if we were to just ban the use of Bright Powder and Quick Claw? Those two seem to be the most "hax" items.

I re-read the rules and maybe they aren't so bad. I dislike the move restriction thingy but I guess it makes sense.


My big problem is with the substitutions. I say each side gets one substitution per pokemon (so in a 6v6, you get six substitutions). Any more than that is just silly. Alternatively, like I've seen it done in the show: You can substitute, but pokemon you call back are out of the fight.

How would you rule on Baton Pass in this instance? Some strategies rely on that substitution to be effective (example: running Vaporeon with a ground or fire team to negate water moves). I don't feel such a restriction to be fair, and I have yet to see people constantly substitute in all the runs I've had with this system. (In fact, some people don't even substitute when they should. >_>)

Substitutions seem pretty balanced to me, since you have to lose a move to do so anyway.

I've never done a tourney like this but all of my battles ever with actual people, I'd say 75% of them result in near constant substitutions until one side is like "fuck it, I'll lose this pokemon just so you stop fucking subbing."

I dunno, a Baton Pass is like a substitution with benefits?

Perhaps playing with people here will be like playing with pros though (from the sounds of the strategic discussions), so they'll be less juvenile subbing.

Because theres nothing juvenile about NPF.

We're super mature.

EDIT: To educate those unfamiliar with the attack, Baton Pass allows you to change pokemon while still retaining status changes such as increased attack, defense, or evasiveness.

For those of us who are elitist nerds, serebii.net is a good source of info on all the attacks, pokemon, and breeding mechanisms that can be used to twink a powerful pokemon.

*substitutes super for spectacularly*

Oh and hey, is anyone who might be interested in this also interested in signing up for a Gym Leader?

I'll do that as soon as I have pokemon other than a level 4 shinx and the turtle starter.

UPDATE: Level 5 Shinx! I'll be ready in NO TIME.

I may, MAY consider being a Gym (the easy Gym!), since that makes my selection of a lineup less annoying. 6 bug pokemon, go! Just not sure if I have the time.

Whoomper, have you given any thought to the idea of giving gyms themes other than "Instert Element/Attack type here"? It would help break up the "This is the fire gym so I better use a water pokemon cuz I am LEET PRO" metagame.

It has been considered in past versions of this format. The general consensus was "no, but maybe someone could do a Pokemon Frontier with Frontier Brains to do that". Screw the TV series; all of the original games follow under the Gym Type system first and foremost. Never do you get to become Pokemon League Champion by fighting "that guy with the dog pokemon". I'd like this league to hold to that tradition.

Not to mention: The Wildcard pokemon in the gym teams. Like say I have a fire gym. Fire's major weaknesses are water, ground, and rock. I could have say, a grass-type and a water-type as my wildcards, covering my fire's weaknesses, and potentally the wildcard weaknesses too. And the gym leaders don't have to list what their team is, so you don't know what to expect.

As was shown at that other place Whomps did this, what some gym leaders did to keep things fresh was to choose three pokemon for each slot in their lineup and randomize their starters from there. That way the Gym Leaders have like eighteen pokemon to choose from and it is harder to stack the deck against the Gym. Granted all eighteen pokemon are listed for all to see, with each set of three in their corresponding slots, but it's still pretty fair.

Now that I'm not the only one without a DS/access, I don't feel bad about asking this: Is there a reason we can't use Shoddy? It would be more inclusive, we wouldn't have to deal with Nintendo WiFi, it's faster, and it would get rid of the whole Friend Code thing.

Edit: It's also got a chatroom, and people can watch the battles.

Should we make an NPF Pokemon social group or something?

This is meant to be a league rewarding effort, so while it is for fun, it's also meant to be a challenge. While Shoddy does allow all the things you just mentioned, it also allows you to basically hax up any perfect pokemon you want.

I lost my DS on the bus the week before Christmas and someone took it. Hey, if any of you NPFers found a white DS with a missing battery cover on the Metro in DC, give it back you bastard this is my second Pokemon Diamond and I still haven't beaten all the gyms.

I'm totally down for non-type gyms.
I could totally be a sweet gym leader but don't have a ds at the mo so would take me some time to get a sweet team together.

Also substitutions are for pussies. It's like the difference between American football and rugby. Well that and all the armour and the rest breaks.
I'm totally dwon for substitution limiting not for any strategy reason or anything, just to get people to harden up.

I mean, I'm not gonna be in this for lack of a DS, but non-type gyms but Theme Gyms suits me much more as it sounds more fun and would make it more interesting to plan against.
DOG GYM go!

I won't have unrestricted access to my DS for several months yet, but I would very much like to be a part of this.

See, another forum of mine started something like this, and as a result, I already have a gym pretty much all completed.
A Fighting-type gym, to be exact.
Some of the more interesting Fighting-types, too, like Lucario Breloom and Toxicroak, on top of my trusted Machamp and Hitmonlee and such.

And you said that Gym leaders can have a wildcard pokemon?
Oooh, I'm so totally raising a Froslass or a Weavile or a Gengar or something to screw with those jerks who try to storm the gym with Birds and Psychics.

Off-topic, anyone else disappointed that Hitmontop isn't named after an action star like Hitmonchan and Hitmonlee are?

Not like you can't rename it something else, no?

Thing is... Hitmonli just...well...Anyone else have something better?

Aww, I wanted a fighting gym... I'd be all shirtless and have my Medicham punch stuff...

Oh yeah, and my badge will be shaped like pain.

Already spoke with Whomper on this...but just letting people know

Fire gym here.

Sweet. What kinds of species you gonna have in that gym?

And re: Hitmontop. I was thinking perhaps Hitmonorris or something, because, you know, spinning and kicks and stuff.

Ain't telling ya. Want it to be a surprise. :D

Rememeber, you can populate an element themed gym with more then just that element of Pokemon. There's precedent for Gym Leaders having non-theme types that use theme attacks.

I know. Again, Froslass or something, because she screws with Birds and Psychics.
Where's your gym-killer now?

Not to mention the "Tweak Rules" which can affect what can be chosen.

Oh, I can make a gym killer for that set up so hard. It'll just take a little research and cunning.

As prior warning I shall beat all gyms with my team of 6 butterfrees. Varying pokemon in your team is for pussies.

So you'd have one butterfree then? :P

Hitmonja
Hitmoneef
Hitmonvan
Hitmonstath
Hitmonlo
PS. First rule of kung-fu flicks. If Pai-Mei's in it, you WILL get an ass whupping, no exceptions.
I'm on the fence about Lo, as I think Machamp or Machoke should be named either that, or the longer Hitmonbolo, because of the Big Ol' ChesticlesMASSIVE MAN-MARIES!
http://content9.flixster.com/photo/5...336179_tml.jpg
http://www.legendarypokemon.net/imag...artwork/67.png

Any rule which says I can only have 1 butterfree for power reasons is a stupid stupid rule.

Just know that my setup will accommodate for ways to kill all things Supereffective vs. Fighters, and stuff you might bring in to fight a Froslass.
And other stuff for fun.

So this is a stupid rule then?

I believe that his joke was that a rule meant to keep you from being overpowered is the rule that keeps him from populating his team entirely with butterfree, which is in no way overpowered.

I'm so pumped for this all of a sudden. That is it. I'm buying a new goddamn DS tomorrow if I can, the sooner to bring the noise and/or pain. Then I'll defeat Flare and become a fire gym leader.

Great for you, buddy.

My fighting gym will be unavailible for several months, because, well, College. I don't have my DS here. But I'll let you all know when I'll be ready.

The good news is, like I said, I already have a ton of Fighting Types trained up, for this exact kind of thing. And I spent my time training all of the cool fighting types. Machamp, Hitmonlee, Breloom, Lucario, Gallede, more than one Toxicroak, etc. and I'm hatching eggs for the other Hitmons, too. I like Hitmons. Chan and Lee for life!

There is a glaring hole in your plan and I shall be eagerly awaiting my chance to show it to you if you haven't figured it out by the time you can Gym Up.

Bah. By my count, I can potentially supereffective hit every type, save for Ghost/Dark.
And that includes Dragon/Water.

Is the glaring hole like, a deficiency of ways to hurt types the same as my team or something? Kind of an I-know-you-know-I-know kind of thing?

For one, you'll be spreading your move pool out a bit thin in order to hit EVERTHING, especially considering not all of those pokemon can learn 4 of the right moves that cover almost everything. This can set your moves into a predictable pool that a person knowledgable enough at the game can take advantage of against you. If you send out the wrong pokemon at the wrong time, it could spell Unrecoverable Disaster for your match.

You might find yourself open to a bit of a pounding from a few different types, but it might be better to focus on countering your main weaknesses then on trying to best everything anyone can throw at you all the time everytime. Smaller margin for critical error

The other part of the problem I'm just going to keep to myself for now.


edit: Against proper planning and strategy (Or a perfectly built and executed sweep), Super Effective moves are rarely the key to a victory

Oh, I'm trying to keep my main problems countered with just about everything. After STAB moves, stuff to kill Supereffective threats is the top priority, followed by further type spread only after I've got that.


Aaaand.... darn it.
The unknown flaw is making me highly paranoid about what it could be.
Is it failure to fight walls? Status effect use? Swarms of ghosts evading my Fighting attacks? Darn it.

Less Chitchat, more battling. The rules work fine, been tested.

*unleashes a Spiritomb/Sableye combo against Locke*

Butterfree Sleep powder go!

Our point wasn't about whether the rules were balanced but whether they were reducing options and thus destroying fun for people who like to play in those way.

Needs some sort Deus Ex Machina/power of friendship in all gym fights, just like the cartoon show!

On second thought, let's not have it similar to the show...

Breloom, and every pokémon on my team without a sole dependency on Fighting-type moves: *laughs*

Hitmonlee: *cowers*

Supereffectives aren't all I have. I will admit I tend to make it priority one too often, though. May need to rethink some of my lineup.

I've read that synopsis before; it was quite elaborate, and I was thoroughly impressed by it.

My point with that comment was less that they're ghosts and more that no move is super-effective on them. I'm thinkinghoping you got that point, though.

Moving along: Does this sound like a good enough plan? Maybe go with it and see where we go? If so, I'll initiate the opening for applications with a new thread.

Yes, yes, I get the lesson here. Trust me, not all of my team is nothing but sweepers. I've got plenty of trickier stuff in the wings, believe me. I simply like to also give my 'mons type coverage, after I've got their other tricks set up. Can't be too careful, eh?

Speaking of those Ghost/Darks; it's a good thing you can't use Skill Swap on Wonder Guard, eh? Imagine a Spiritomb that you can't hit with damage. Be a friggin' nightmare, he would.


Anyway: yes, I do think this is a great idea. As I've said before, I was in another forum that had much the same idea. It never really got off the ground there (though I believe it's still on the back burner), but you appear to have this quite planned, or at least organized. I say go with it, and I hope I can still be a gym leader, despite my current state of inactivity (which will end once I'm on one of my breaks from college. Spring break seems to be the nearest opportunity, I'm afraid. That's late February? Huh. Yeah.
I'll be more availible in late february, so not too long.

No weakness? Foresight isn't that obscure, is it?

It typically is in the metagame, especially when you consider both sides can switch pokemon out.

Honestly, those moves wouldn't be as obscure if you were allowed to raise Evasion.

I often find myself wondering why, with moves like Foresight, Miracle Eye, Odor Sleuth, Defog, Haze, and all those "always hit"moves out there, that raising Evasion is taboo. That's an entire branch of metagame and strategy that's being neglected, it seems to me.

As of fourth gen, Steel resists Dragon. Hence why dragon moves aren't supereffective against Dialga.

Forgive me if it's already been said, just thought I'd add it for those who don't know.

Foresight, et al, doesn't cause one to always hit; that's what Magnet Lock and its kin do. All this does is reset the foe's evasion - One additional double team from the opponent and you're back to where you were before. They will always be one stage of evasion ahead of you, especially if they're faster (which, considering the pokemon likely to learn these moves in the first place, isn't a far stretch).

If you reset their evasion, they can either raise it again, or take a free shot at you because you're too preoccupied making sure you can take a shot at them. If you try to just brute force through the evasion... well, we know how fucking annoying that can be.

It overcentralizes the game, limiting viable strategies to evasion and counter-evasion teams; and that is why it's banned.

Actually?
According to Smogon, Foresight and its kin actually reset Evasion, and block all future evasion boosts from the effected 'mon. So the Evader would have to switch in order to do that trick again.

And those moves have uses outside of just removing Evasion. Ever wanted to go Supereffective against a Spiritomb? Foresight and then smack it with a Fighting move.

Or you could actually play the probabilites and not get stressed out by evasion. I don't know the numbers for later gens but I remember seeing someone do it for Gen 1 and evasion wasn't anywhere near as good as it appears.
It only gets bad if someone uses 4+ doubleteams but if they have pulled that off you deserve to lose.
This seems like a fear of "randomness" to me, especially when they ban not only evasion moves but held items which increase evasion.\
Not that I care much cause evasion is for pussies!


On the go-ahead front, I don't have a DS at the moment (broke the last one) or any of latest games but I would be keen once I've got one and got my team together. That might be a while yet though so can't really count me as a number.

And hey let's not completely rule out the "100% hit" moves that a mon could use after you've somehow let the enemy evade 3-4 times!