Pokemon Umbral Discussion 36: Questions Are Overrated
 

Dawn, kill Dracorian for asking fucking questions.

http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/...onUmbral25.jpg

Love you.

Explanation: Yes, when something is killed, it's slot is disregarded in conjunction with splash. The only reason the slot is there is for two things: reinforcement placement and Atunhand possession of the corpse positioned there.

Explanation: Devil's Drift probably would launch Mio. Mio is very lightweight. Moera and the Asura Betas, on the other hand, are absurdly large and would have a sizeable resistance to knockback.

I'd let her put a bullet in me any time, if you know what I mean.

No, no. I was talking about an enemy being ejected from battle. Like if Lexhur used Devil's Drift on them.

What, like permanently?

...Wait one.

*checks Devil's Drift*

I imagine that would work on Mio actually. Ruin Harmonic won't be sung while she's out of play.

Honestly, I'm in awe of Dawn with a sniper rifle as well. Ever since Gunslinger Girl, Divergence Eve, and some other more comedic animes showcased adorable girls with military hardware, I fell in love with it.

I mean, if when an enemy is ejected from battle, if it's slot is disregarded like if it were dead. So that if I were to use Devil's Drift on, say, the Golduck Pokebrid right now, and then used Blizzard on Miyo, the second target would be the Asura next to the Golduck Pokebrid.

I see no image in the original post.

All I have gathered is that it is apparently Dawn with a Sniper rifle or something.

Edit: Found the link via quote. Not terribly impressive.

I don't get why you people can't see pictures.

I see hot sniper Dawn just fine.

Well, guys, I'm off to sleep soon, since I gotta wake up early for my plane flight.

Hope things turn out ok. (DON'T DO ANYTHING DRASTIC!) I should have internet connection over at the hotel, although I'll likely only be checking around at night.

Hoping my plane flight goes over safely and all that.

I hope you crash!

Also, I'm going to nuke Togekiss! And then send Renny in as a frontline fighter! He'll get slaughtered. It'll be great.

Bard's just jealous because Charlotte would never look that badass.

Good God man, the questions! Answer the questions!

They demand answering!

Plus I'm secretly hoping Dawn will snipe me again.

Yeah, you can do that. Good lord, man, I should think you would be able to answer these yourself.

Well, I wanted to make absolute sure so I could implement my evil plan.

They will be guidelines, but you'll (hopefully) be honor-bound to treat them at strict regulations. That's the entire point of the deal. I'm not giving up leadership for a chance to expound on my ideas of balance, which will then be treated as helpful suggestions but otherwise ignored. I want a guarantee that, even if I kept devoting as much time as I have to this RP, and read every post, considered every suggestion minutely, I would find nothing balance-wise to complain about.

Mind you, that'd be rather machiavellian and impossible to actually organize. So, once again, the idea is this:

I post a few rules regarding what's overpowered and what isn't. Not sure how I'll phrase it yet, but I'll probably use three main principles: How strongly it potentially changes Gameplay, How greatly it strengthens the character in quesition, compared to the rest (that is to say, how 'fair' it is), and finally, if it's an element that was already present in the games, how much the usage in the RP differs from usage in the games.

We'll discuss these rules before they're finalized, though obviously my willingness to compromise will be limited. Though of course, rules won't be set in stone. We can modify them if we need to.

Once everything's finalized, we all agree to abide by them, both passively (don't suggest overpowered shit) and actively (speak up against anyone else suggesting overpowered shit)

And finally, like I said. I won't have any way of binding you to these rules. You can interpret them in many different ways, twist my words howevermuch you like. But I'm hoping that even if you could get around the letter ("don't do this, don't do that)"you'll respect their spirit ("don't let people's desire to power up their characters screw this RP over").

Yes. Yes I do. And y'know what? Unless this deal goes through, this ass will remain firmly planted on the 'leader' chair. And, whelp, will you look at that, not only am I more than capable of tactically justifying a faceful of laser directed at Togekiss, I'd also be extremely enthusiastic about that sort of idea!

Seriously, if this falls flat because of you, I'll still be leader, and for a while I swear, I'd be chanelling motherfucking Charlotte all up in this bitch. ALL ABOARD THE FRUSTRATED MALICE EXPRESS! NEXT STOP: PAIN AND HUMILIATION!

Just tell me how he'll change emotionally. More cynical? More self-doubt? Tortured by his past? More of a chip on his shoulder? Less thereof? Wiser? More impulsive? Something along those lines, I don't need to know what happens. Though if you wanna/need to tell me, PM, I guess.

No. He will go "Why are you choosing to limit our autonomy and reduce our effectiveness? I am the team's chosen leader! I have the support of Charlotte, Renny and Pierce!"
And y'know what? He totally would. Because, once again, unless this deal goes through, all our other deals remain active. Including the ones where Pierce and Renny prefer Impact as leader over anyone else.

The way you phrase it (in that the choice is either between Pierce being the leader or the status quo of Impact's leadership and an inbalanced RP)? Maybe.
The way it actually is (in that Charlotte is a perfectly viable option for leader, so the choice is between Pierce, the Status Quo, or that one character whose leadership is incidentally supported by myself and the fucking DM)? No. Fuck no.

Not to mention that there's other ways to bring back balance into this RP. Hesitate much longer and hey, perhaps I'll find a way. And then Impact remains leader and I'll have achieved my aims, and did I mention? This is a once-in-a-lifetime offer. You said it yourself, there's really not that much you can offer me. If I find another way (and hell, I can think of two off the top of my head), then this great opportunity to limit mine and Impact's Control over this RP? Gone. So your only chance would be a coup, and if you've reached that point you might as well resign yourselves.

And fair enough. Charlotte's smarter than she looks...
But hell, that just makes it more fun.
And she's still neutral ground, so to speak. More so than Pierce, Renny or Impact, anyway. Indifference to non-murderous things pretty much means neutrality.
Also, and I didn't want to say this, but whatever: One of the conditions for this deal was that Impact's leadership isn't plot-necessary. It isn't as such. But there will be things going on, sidequest- and sequel- related things, and considering that Pierce is already to some degree suspicious of Impact, I do not think that these things would be as sucessful as if, say, Charlotte were leader. And these things aren't even nefarious. Well, ok, they are, but they're for a good cause. Trust me, limit Impact's success this RP? You'll be kicking yourself in the sequel. Kicking yourself.

Wiser. I expect he'll be less cynical, toward teammates at least. Less of a chip on his shoulder, I guess? More self-doubt, but nothing crippling (I'm actually not sure about this one, we'll see how it goes). Pierce is always tortured by his past. He just doesn't usually let it get to him, y'know?

He'll also be a lot more stressed out. I mean, you try juggling dealing with your sister being kidnapped, an evil soul-eating mastermind manipulating you without your knowledge and pretending to actually be an ally, Elizabeth's wacky shenanigans, Aria's wacky shenanigans, herding a pack of kittens wielding nukes (y'know, if he gets the job), and asking a girl out.

But there won't be any outbursts. He just probably won't taunt enemies as much, maybe, and not enjoy fighting as much. That's not to say he'll turn into Grumpy McCrankyPants either.

And then there's the whole "channeling his inner ruthlessness without going completely overboard" balancing act. You can thank Enmakki for that, though hell, maybe you can have Impact give him some advice too, if he gets the job, y'know "in the interest of ensuring the competence of our new leader" or some crap like that. Mind you, he's still not going to kill anyone, but you don't see him glaring at a teammate when they make a kill right now, do you?.

I think that's it. But let's face it, chances are I've forgotten a couple, so I'll edit them into this post or do 'em in another post if you've already seen this post by the time I remember them.

Well I wasn't going to go and say the other option. Good God man, it's the principle of the thing! You don't help your enemies reach any kind of conclusion, even if they're already more than capable of figuring out for themselves in a matter of seconds anyway.

And shut up. I know you're going to say something like "trust me, you don't want me to be your enemy".

I'm fairly certain AB is at least half-joking about making Charlotte leader. It's not that he wouldn't do it. It's more like when I talk about killing Renny, or torturing Matthias.

Hey, some of us are totally into chaos.

Oh come on. You can't possibly expect us to take this seriously.

Whether or not you're right is something that will be seen when the time comes. You're not giving us a warning, because that means you'd have to actually give us something concrete. It's more like a cryptic jerk-ass hint.

And the proceedure for cryptic hints is keep on going as you normally would. Except you'll be keeping your eyes open for signs, of course, but not actively looking for them.

Well, I just arrived safely, no thanks to Drac trying to jinx me. (Almost got stranded in a totally different location! Only sheer utter luck saved me!)

Looks like since AB oked the idea, my plan to eject Togekiss and focus the laser on Mio thus maximizing damage on bosses and minions alike is the best option.

...

You do realize AB said Devil's Drift would work on Miyo too, right?

We could laser her AND knock her the fuck out of the field, and we'd find out what happens to the Betas when they don't get their lullaby.

Why laser her and then knock her out of the field? We wouldn't be able to capitalize on the high damage that she would get until she came back.

>_> Plus, you're still trying to knock out Togekiss with the damn laser...

Why yes, yes I am.

We wouldn't need to capitalize on the damage yet. It's not like she's going to heal herself while she's pulling herself out of the dilapidated remains of the building Lexhur knocked her into that she brought down.

And it's not like the enemies can heal her while she's ejected, either.

Geez, at least if AB chose Impact or Pierce or someone else to dominate, at least there might be discussions or people actively trying to protest harming a team-mate... but NOO, he had to choose someone whom everyone else seems to want to knock out despite it being practically a saint with Serene Blessing and all. How twisted.

How about we try to decide how everyone else is going to attack what moves they have, since we're volleying back and forth here?

We did seem to accept Wilhelmina finishing off Toxicroak with Flying type bullet and Shannon and Moon doing Moonlight Disco on the 3 betas and on Moera...

BTW, pretty much off for the night since I got a big day tomorrow checking out the sights.

You know me, Goshujin-sama. You know that I like to bend over backwards on occasion just to keep the players happy. Why else would you get Lola? Why else could Pierce lay Shizuka and still have the possibility of hooking up with Chizuru? Why else would Impact be able to conquer the world? Why else would I let Charlotte get away with shooting someone? Why else would I give Matthias the ability to hack mechanical foes?

Well, maybe I should've asked if he was okay with it before I made it Porygon Z's Synchronicity Technique? To me, it just made sense. I mean, Porygon is made out of data like a Digimon or something, right? What's the best way to use electronic data in an awesome way?

Matthias could have all kinds of fun with that even between missions. Like if Impact was using a computer or something, in goes eMatthias and when someone walks by, up comes a bunch of popups for gay porn sites with high volume.

If Matthias was like that at all, he'd out-douche Pierce and Charlotte.

Matt's Porygon's Sync Tech is A-OK in my book. Although, why stop there? He could replace all the assigned sound bits with some fake orgasm sound. Every time he double-click. Every time there is an pop-up or a prompt, everything he resets, load a file or anything like that, it'll cue that sound!

What I meant was that out of all the characters that could have been chosen for Domination, you chose the one that everyone WANTS to knock out, out of character wise. As if you disliked Togekiss for some reason too! Crazy, uh?

Anyhow, at best, I'll probably try to have Renny use both actions to try to convert Togekiss before Lexhur uses the laser and Devil's Drift on Mio... If it works, great. If not... well, the chances of the worst case happening is 25%... >_>

Dante, Dante.

You must make Matthias that much of a douche-bag. There is simply no other option.

Although, on top of doing everything Menarker and AB said, you should also take Impact's voice, paste it over one or both of the males so that it sounds like he's the one saying "oh yeah ffuuuuuccckk meeeee" while getting assraped, and then play it all over the PATCA building's PA.

So basically what your saying is.

Step A) Matthias becomes addicted to Rage Rockets.

Step B) Fuck with everyone's computers and their reputations.

Step C) Somehow not get brutally murdered

Step D) ?????

Step E) Profit!

Hell, why stop there? You could probably hack bank accounts 'n' shit. Hack an online game, hack a max level character with the best weapons and armor right off the bat and then hack the game so you can kill anyone and laugh at their Livejournals.

Ye gods, what evil hath my heretical hands wrought?

Something beautiful.


Anyway, plan:

Rachel: Spend 50 Rage and use four Rage Rockets on Lexhur.
Impact: Max Revive on Shaymin. Swarm Bow on Moera.
Renny: Deploy Swampert. Shaymin to use Air Slash on the Fog and Swampert to Mimic Air Slash.
Charlotte: Arceus to use Judgment on Asura Beta A. Sol-Leks to use Fire Blast on Asura Beta A.
Wilhelmina: Piercing Shot on Toxicroak Pokemerc.
Pierce: Max Revive on Tyranitar. Tyranitar to use Earthquake on Toxicroak and Asura Beta D (backlash on Shaymin). If Toxicroak is dead, Crunch on Moera. Palkia to use Spacial Rend on Miyo.
Matthias: Hyper Beam on Moera.
Moon: Lanturn to use Signal Beam on Moera. Split Rage with Shannon to use Moonbeam Disco on Moera and Asura Betas D, E and F.
Harliette: Wormadam to use Bug Bite on Moera. Illumise to use Bug Buzz on Moera. Aqua Shot on Moera.
Lexhur: Lexhur Laser centered on Millenium Battlebot. Devil's Drift on Miyo.
Trainer Attack: On Asura Beta A, or if it's dead, on Moera.

[Evolith/Device Space 1] [Matthias] [Sol-Leks] [Arceus] [Bastiodon] [Wormadam] [Harliette] [Illumise] [Swampert] [Shaymin] [Tyranitar] [Palkia] [Lanturn] [Kingdra] [Impact] [Evolith/Device Space 2]

Not gonna quote, just gonna write.
Drac:

New Pierce sounds... interesting, I guess. Should be fun. Though not as fun as Charlotte.

Cryptic jerk-ass hints are all you're getting. You don't have to react to them. But come on. Would I waste my breath on cryptic hints if there wasn't a significant chance that I'd get to say 'I told you so' in several years time? Has any of my frustratingly vague information ever not been right on the mark?

And I'm sorry. Since when did 'Impact being leader and controlling the team with an IRON FIST' ever count as 'chaos'? That is the exact opposite of chaos. It is anti-chaos. It is the exact opposite of anarchy. It is Control, motherfuckers. And the only chance you guys have to prevent it is graaaadually slipping away from you. And another cryptic hint? If you do so, you better buy a new pair of kicking-yourself boots, because OH MAN YOU COULD CERTAINLY USE AN EXTRA PAIR OF THOSE.

Because, see, you're arguing. You're refusing to listen. You're too caught-up in the heroism of your own character that you have to, HAVE TO take this chance to make him leader. You're not being... reasonable.
Let's talk about our literary preferences for a moment.
In the past, for me, mostly fantasy and sci-fi. I read those by the dozen.
But now time is short... I don't bulk-read anymore, I've become more of a conniseur... I read eagerly, but only books of great quality. The latest was a fascinating book called 'Special Topics in Calamity Physics'. A mystery, I guess, but in a really interesting context, and told from the point of view of a fascinating-incredibly-acute-but-slightly-insane young woman.
Right now? I'm reading "The Godfather". Just as fascinating, though in another way. I'm sure you know it. Don Corleone really interests me. In a PM to you I once mentioned something called 'tactical diplomacy', just something I came up with off the top of my head to describe what I was doing at the time. And Corleone? He's fucking mastered it. Seriously, on the 'magnificent bastard' scale, he comes just under Vetinari, and certainly above Artemis Fowl. Way above Impact, for now. Above me, even!
Above me as well, for that matter. He just has more... style, I guess. He's better in the long term. His personal philosophy is far more effective, as well. He really knows how to compromise. How to be reasonable. How to make sure that everyone gets a little, that everyone's happy, but that he's happiest. He rarely has to use force. Barely ever threatens!
The only time you really have to worry for yourself when you're negotiating with him is when he despairs. When he throws up his hands in frustration and walks away and calls you... unreasonable. Because that means that you've resisted his best attempts at persuading you to see things his way, it means that there's literally no way but force, through which he can get his way. It means he made you an offer you can't refuse, and you refused it anyway. Unreasonable.

But I'm not like him, sadly. I'm not as strict as him, not as competent. I propose a lot of ultimatums, every time one gets rejected, a new one pops up. I get more likely to employ force each time, but it's nothing final. Nothing so very consequent. It's a slippery slope. And though it's getting quite slippery now... And hey, I certainly aspire to be like him. In these negotiations, anyway. But until then... here we go again.

You owe me a favor. Moderate, I believe. Now, there's a variety of ways to interpret that. But I'm not even going to call it in right now, as such. Instead... I'll make an offer. Not necessarily one you can't refuse, but an offer. If this deal goes through, with Charlotte as leader, with unanimous agreement from everyone, that favor will be forgotten. That is fair?

And finally, I'm not your enemy! It would be unpleasant for both of us if I was. So consider, eh? Consider carefully. Slippery slope and all that. ^^


Menarker: I assume that your lack of reply is to be interpreted as agreement.

Dante:
...
Do me a favor. Go on youtube, look up 'g-mod idiot box hax'. That will give you my opinion on all of the unorthodox uses thereof. Especially those involving Impact.

Oh for the love of God.

Yeah, I'm not saying it won't be right. I'm saying we're not going to act on it. Or at least, we shouldn't.

I meant about us being forced to depose Impact via coup.

Hey man, I already said I agree to the overall deal.

For the most part, I'm just arguing with you on some comments you make for the sake of arguing.

The only parts I'm seriously arguing about are the ones directly related to Pierce being leader. Riddle me this: how would Charlotte be a better leader than Pierce? Not fun, better.

Hey man, just because I'm generally unreasonable doesn't mean I'm always unreasonable, and it certainly doesn't mean you should assume I'm being unreasonable.

If you can convince me why Charlotte would be a better leader than Pierce, sure.

I said you'd say that.

There would likely be less internal conflict with Charlotte as leader.

She would tell all y'all to shut the fuck up and just clear house. No room for inner conflict until after the mission, and it is not important by then.

And also just wanna say the Godfather was a pretty awesome book. I could never get into the sequel though.

Oh come on! Pierce is more than capable of telling Impact that "you're wrong now shut the fuck up".

Would he take it seriously if it came from Pierce?

More seriously than if it came from Charlotte.

Charlotte shot Moon in the first mission. She has also expressed a willingness to kill even children several times.

Keep in mind, she shot at Shannon because she didn't get taken seriously. Impact saw it.

And I'm sure if it came down to it, she could retaliate with something besides violence.

The gun in question came from Impact in the first place.

But I'm pretty sure Impact is sneaky enough to steal the gun away from Charlotte, not to mention the shotgun, prior to a mission so she can't just shoot him.

And this is Impact. You can't possibly come up with a cunning enough plot for vengeance that he couldn't figure out.

Since when did you respect Impact?

Since it gets me to prove Pierce is a better leader than Charlotte.

Oh SNAP.
...
Wait a minute...


Also, dude. This isn't about better leader, worse leader. If this was about having the best leader, I never would have made this deal and Impact would keep his position. So hard. You wouldn't believe how hard he'd keep it.

I want Charlotte for a leader. It is part of the concession you have to make to me in return for concessions I will make to you. That is what is called a compromise. Of course, I've made arguments for why Charlotte would be a good leader, even tried to argue that she'd be better (and I think she is best suited, for the purposes of this deal, since, like I said, neutral ground). But I did so less because I have any duty to prove, but to persuade you to agree to this deal.

Saying that I do have a duty to provide sufficient proof that Charlotte would be a better leader than Pierce, and you'll refuse the deal otherwise...

Well, perhaps you're right in saying that you haven't been unreasonable so far. Probably, in fact. But refusing on those grounds? I'm not so sure about that. I have made you a fair offer. Modify it, if you will. I might be willing to make a few smaller compromises. Depends on what else you want. So make me an offer. But please, cease this unimaginative rejection of my every attempt at finally bringing this infernal business to an end.

I don't need to know about the state of Impact's penis, thanks.

Technically it should be about who can be the better leader if we shaft Impact out of the position.

This deal doesn't encompass every possible thing that might happen in the future. Even if Charlotte is best suited "for the purposes of this deal" or whatever, there are likely to be several other occurrences in the future that she's not best suited for.

And I thought you said you would sweeten up the deal more if I told you how Pierce is going to change after his sidequest? You can talk about concessions all you want after you do that.

I've already agreed to the overall deal, whether the leader is Charlotte or Pierce.

First I asked you to tell me why Charlotte was a better leader. Then you proposed your little mini-deal where you eliminate my moderate favor if I vote for Charlotte, to which I demanded that you prove Charlotte's suitability.

You could still not prove Charlotte's suitability and I'd still owe you a moderate favor, of course. Though you'd still have to come up with some other argument to convince me to vote for her.

Oh come on. We're almost done with it anyway, we're just ironing out one last annoying detail.

As for how to end it... well, you could just concede that Pierce should be leader.

But on to serious suggestions now... umm, you could declare an ultimatum. Though of course, that would probably push me to reject. This whole thing is already one big ultimatum anyway; you practically forced a choice that wasn't really a choice down our throats.

I'm not saying I'm going to reject, of course. I'm saying I don't like it, and I am allowed to so don't you dare do that thing where you get all pissy and write up a huge-assed threatening post. I am not rejecting the deal.

Anyway, another alternative: I'm asking, and only asking this time, that you prove to me that Charlotte is a better leader.

You could also make a brilliant, heavily detailed argument that perfectly outlines how I'm only doing this to put Pierce in a leadership position, rather than it being about who the best leader is in the absence of Impact like I've been telling myself. Then I'd have no choice but to concede.

Or you could just call the deal off forever. I'd be left kicking myself, not to mention everyobe else would be kicking me for depriving them of a sweet deal.

Man, I'm trying to be reasonable here. I have a certain opinion and I believe I'm right in that opinion. I'm asking you to prove me wrong if you can. We both have stances and we both believe we're right. That's the way discussions go, man.

Well I have a Vriska Avatar so Nyeh!

I am superior to all of you.

I plan to have the RP post finished Monday night. Tomorrow's my duty day and I'll more or less spend the day working on the sprite comic if I can get a good idea by then. Not sure what it'll be about, but I think it'll be an interview of the PCs.

I expect a beautifully witty flame war of how I misinterpreted your character's personalities almost immediately after I post it.

No, it should be interpreted as the fact that since I'm still on vacation, I might have been terribly busy.

I'll however more or less hold to the agreement. I wasn't in total disagreement as more on concerned on the "fine print" that one player (You) would be more or less deciding the standards of power of techniques.

Keep in mind however, since from what I'm grasping of this deal, it's freeing me from my obligation of supporting Impact as leader (and are you still obligated to the agreements you made to me, since you got leadership support during the duration of the agreement?)... and a good thing too since in-RP Renny will not be forgiving Impact for directing the laser in Togekiss's direction. That's going to send his trust rating into a tailspin.

Anyhow, hoping everyone is doing well. Be back in a few days.

Well, I was hoping you'd comment on the plan I posted.

But since you're not going to, I'm just going to go ahead and modify it a little bit so that Renny's pokemon all die, and then Renny tries to attack Toxicroak with his righteous fists of fury. Then Toxicroak's counter attack ability kicks in. And everyone lives happily ever after.

I'll get around to posting soon.

Oh, and something else: I propose that we rename Renny's Signature Technique "Valiant Rush" to "The Little Engine That Could".

All in favor say aye.

What is there to talk about? We keep going back and forth on the laser thing. On a tactical side, it seems "decent" since you apparently still want fog dispelling judging from the looks of Renny's pokemons actions. From an RP perspective, the orders might be given sequentially, so that everything looks good until that last order which is "WTF, YOU CAN'T DO THAT!" "I CAN AND I WILL!"

On a side note, your formation is incorrect if you want Tyranitar to use its Earthquake in such a way so it backlashes uselessly on Shaymin. Shaymin and Tyranitar are both on the opposite side of the formations!

Well you could just admit I'm right.

Anyway, I forgot to change Tyranitar's and Shaymin's positions. Oh well, it's fixed now.

Actually, I was hoping you'd modify it to show who gets STAB and whatnot so I wouldn't have to do it.

Ok. Fuck this shit. I had a nice, big-ass post all written out, forum swallowed it, I'm pissed.

Buuut here we go again...

Bard:
3XCUUUUUS3 M3?

Menarker: Renny shouldn't suffer any loss of confidence, cause Impact neither gave that order, or is likely to give that order. If the deal falls flat, I'll find more subtle ways to get venegance, and, as you've noticed, I haven't been very active in the RP thread. I certainly haven't made any post implying that Togekiss should get lasered.

Regardless of that, yes, you'd be released of your obligation to support Impact. Though I'd like to retain the relationships between our characters. That is to say, Pierce and Renny no longer have to vote Impact for leader. But going straight to massive misturst would annoy me. Not that you intend to, but I just wanted to... throw that out there.

Anyway, business.

Drac...
This isn't a discussion. If it were, I'd be debating vehemently. Making arguments. But it isn't. It's a negotiation. I'm not trying to change your mind, prove to you that I'm right. Hell, I don't even hold the view that Charlotte is more qualified than Pierce (though neither is Pierce more qualified than Charlotte)!
I can try to persuade you that you're wrong, of course. And I'm sort of doing that. But not out of belief that I'm right. Cause see, negotiation. We both have certain motivations and views. We are acting based on these. I'm not trying to persuade you that your motivations are fallacies. I'm trying to persuade you that it is in your interest to ignore some of your motivations (Pierce's leadership), while prioritizing others (Not Impact's leadership, The Favor, which, by the way, was the sweetener I talked about).

And I think that is certainly the case.
Mind you, that's not to imply that I don't think Charlotte would be as competent (and if not, then at least not much less competent than) Pierce. Certainly not less succesful. She'd have tacticians advising her. And I have a hunch that once she has power, Bard won't throw it away by acting murderous-impulsively. Unless it's for something really hilarious.

But that's just on the side. I think the ultimatum idea is pretty good. I am W34RY!
Three options:
You insist that Pierce be leader. Deal falls flat.
You give in. Deal works out.
You make me an offer, whereby you either make concessions in return for Pierce's leadership, or I make concessions in return for Charlotte's leadership. Preferrably both. Then I'll make you one, count it, one, counteroffer. Then you either accept or decline, and we're done.

So apparently I was supposed to make an illustration of Drac.

http://i38.tinypic.com/33w7028.jpg

Not sure why it was requested.

Yes, you did:

And also:

Oh, come on. (about the bolded part)

Fair enough, this is a negotiation. See below to see what parts of the deal you have yet to hold up to and then I'll make my concessions.

Impact not being leader was not the sweetener. For fuck's sake, Impact stepping down is the main reason we're making this deal anyway! Not a sweetener. Let me outline that you've promised a couple of times to make the deal better:

And no, you voting Charlotte for leader doesn't count as a sweetener either. We always would've had to choose a new leader. Charlotte being a candidate is just specifying.

Unless you're pulling this off. In which case you can't, because I totally called dibs on it right after Charlotte posted it.

Oh wait, heh, you already did:

And now you're saying:

So first you said it didn't matter who we picked as leader as long as we agreed to keep balance. Now you're saying if I don't pick Charlotte as leader the deal goes to hell.

You haven't quite pushed me there yet. I'm weary too. The question is, can you wear me out before I wear you out? Because I'm not going to be losing any sleep if this deal doesn't go through.

Anyway, yeah, if you can somehow keep pushing me I just might cave.

Fair enough. I'm going to propose something, but before we go through with anything, for the love of God, I need to know if you're going to do the stuff you said you'd do that I quoted above or not.

So here it is:

Impact steps down and becomes Pierce's lieutenant. Or some other sideways-shift to another position that establishes Pierce and Impact as equals, except Pierce can overrule Impact only when they're out on the field. Like, I dunno, Pierce being team leader and Impact becoming Head of Intelligence or some such. Alternatively: Impact becoming Head of the Watchmen and Pierce being promoted to Field Commander, as long as it's clarified in-game that both positions are equal.

In exchange, I myself will be less of a nuisance toward you fine people. Generally nicer, less whiny, and whatnot. It can be a drastic change that would last for a specific amount of time, and once that time is up I still wouldn't be quite as obnoxious as I am now. Alternatively, it can be a permanent change but of a much lesser order of magnitude.

There's my offer. Feel free to specify whatever parts you want when/if you make your counteroffer. Though I'd suggest against making a counteroffer I can't refuse, because I might just refuse it.


This portrayal is entirely accurate.

Normally, I suppose I should be crapping in my pants because Geminex and Bard are plotting against me. But hell, there's a rather defiant part of me that wants to scream "Bring it on, mothafuggas!" And it's a really big part.

Though, you know, if you two feel I've crossed a line somewhere with my obnoxiousness, all you have to do is tell me

EDIT: Oh you've got to be shitting me. They finally fix the forum clock just in time to make this post not make any sense? I mean, shit.

I'm just going to wait until the clock catches up, delete this post and post it again so it'll show up after Bard's.

The details in the beer bottle are incredible. I wish I could sprite like that.

Anyways, about time for duty. I woke up this morning refreshed and ready to do a sprite comic with much of the dialog in my head. Especially Matthias. That's gonna be the best one.

So, Bard, you changed your title to Geminex? I don't get it at all, but I find it damn hilarious regardless.

It's something to do with an avatar someone made for Geminex (because no one in NPF knows who you are if you don't have an avatar) that Bard stole.

Also, those two have been like this for a while now, so it was the next logical step in their relationship.

I didn't know Geminex made avatars. I wish I could do that.

Nah, Gem didn't make it. Someone made it for him. In this thread, page 6.

And now they are truly inside one another.

Blues made it for him, I just took it for fun. Its a 'Gem' in an 'X'! Get it?!

Well, stop that. It makes me think you submitted yourself to become his mindslave and the seizure inducing avatar is his branding on you.

... What do you think I've been saying in my last two posts?

I'll change it back to Vriska or Konata after I see his reaction.

You do realize that now his reaction is going to be the opposite of what you want?

In hindsight, I will say this for a surety: Geminex, when Impact gets his world-conquering army, they will wear that avatar on their uniforms to show their alliance to you. I don't know if you're happy or sad about it, but it's final and so no amount of Tobasco Slim Jims will get me to decide otherwise.

Now I'm off to work. Have fun, pimps.

No, no, I have a better idea.

Brand it on their arms.

Pledge your allegiance to High Overlord Impact or Death!

Ok, first: The Laser Togekiss bit was OOC only. Nothing Renny knows about.

Yes. Impact being leader was not the sweetener. My offering to forget the favor, on the other hand, was. I was gonna make it something else, but I didn't have the proper authority to do so. Pity, that. Trust me, you would've been falling over yourself to declare Charlotte leader and polish my shoes and whatever else I wanted. Mind you, I'm not going to tell you what it is, but that the time of writing, I was pretty sure it was gonna work. So yeah, all those promises? I've pretty much fullfilled them as much as I'm going to.

Nnnooo. I'm saying that I'm unwilling to continue ngotiations if your responses just consist of declining, and asking for proof that Charlotte's better than Pierce. I am fully willing to consider Pierce as a leader, if the price is right. And y'know what? That price? It ain't right.

I mean honestly. You want me to take you seriously (... sometimes, anyway. I guess. Right?), but you make that kind of offer? 'I won't be an asshole'? Really? That only works when I do it. And even then, not well. And only supported by threats.
But I am going to wait with the counteroffer, because you have not yet made any kind of offer in regards to Charlotte. I would like to hear what compromise I'd have to make for her to be leader. Name your price. The favor is not sufficient?

And no lines have yet been crossed. You're just standard-annoying, not hyper-annoying. And besides, we're not conspiring! Much.
Though if we were, you would not want us to bring it on. You would not see the light of day ever again.

And AB, screw that. I'd have to get blue to make it more badass before that would be acceptable? And besides, what world-conquering army?

G3M1N3X, OUR 4VV4T4RS MUST B4TTL3 TO TH3 D34TH.

TH3R3 C4N ONLY B3 ON3!

M4Y 1 SUGG3ST B4CKGROUND MUS1C?

NOW W3 H4V3 4 SHOWDOWN. M4N1PUL4T3-OFF COMM3NC1NG!

YOU S33, YOU H4V3 F4LL3N R1GHT 1NTO MY TR4P.

1 KN3W YOU W3R3 GO1NG TO DO TH4T.

1 SHUDD3R 1N F34R.

1F YOU H4D 4CTU4LLY PR3P4RED FOR SUCH 4 S1TU4T1ON 1N 4 W4Y TH4T WOULD L3T YOU TURN 1T TO YOUR 4DV4NT4GE, TH3 4BOV3 ST4T3M3NT WOULD H4V3 COM3 1NF3ST1M4LLY CLOS3R TO B31NG TRU3.

YOUR3 NOT V3RY GOOD 4T TH1S 4R3 YOU.
W4NT M3 TO T34CH YOU?

OK TH3N, WHY NOT.

You two make me want to kill myself.

Umm... You might wanna check out my latest post in the RP thread. Read it carefully. And you should know that actually happened before you posted that Impact didn't support lasering Togekiss.

That's not sweetener! That's not sweetener at all! You're just cashing in a favor. Sweetener would've been Pierce being made Charlotte's second in command or something and the favor being forgotten. Basically, I'd have to get something on top of the favor being paid in order for it to be sweetener. Otherwise, like I said, you're just collecting on a debt.

Unless you were actually planning of calling in the favor at another time to make me do something that would prove detrimental toward myself. In which case you should've made it clear. But I doubt that's the case, since there's not really anything I can do for you, is there?

In the future, we might want to specify that favor means "binding contract that you will fulfill when it is called upon". Oh well.

Also, allow me to reiterate this:

I don't recall you making anything better for me in particular. Of course, I could be wrong.

Hey, I haven't asked for proof of Charlotte over Pierce again. And I'm not going to anymore, now that we've determined this is a negotation and not a discussion.

Also, I don't want to decline, but you keep making offers that just aren't worth it.

But you know what? The hell with it.

I can't really make threats. No one ever really takes me seriously and then I have to go through with them and then we're all unhappy.

Okay, I have a counteroffer in mind, I do. It's one you'd love. But I want to see your response to everything else in this post before I tell you it.

Don't go there. I will start making threats and then everything goes to hell.

But you still have to brand it on their arms.

H3H3H3H3H3H3H3

BUT Y34H, TH4T H4S TO B3 TH3 LOGO FOR 1MP4CT'S 4RMY.

Blow it out your ass, Bard.

Ok yeah, that was getting pretty old pretty fast.

I suppose it got a rise out of you though, so it was worth it. And I figure Gem will keep it up so >:).

Well [now it won't work.

You just keep telling yourself that.

Don't mind if I do!

Oh, wow. You're god-moding! Very nicely done. Classy! That's totally a valid counter-argument!
...
Edit your fucking post. Impact never gave any agreement (as you can tell by the fact that I never actually posted him agreeing). Fire Lexhur's laser. But hell, Pierce is gonna be taking the fall on that one and don't you dare try to share responsibility with Impact for that.

And what do you mean, the favor's no sweetener? I'm not calling it in! That's the entire point! I'm offering to forget it if you agree to Charlotte. The deal becomes better for you, since you do not only gain a highly competent, effective leader (:3), but also don't have to do me a favor later. A favor which you most certainly would otherwise have to do at the worst possible moment.

If I were calling it in, the favor would be 'agree to this deal' and our discussion would be whether a moderate favor is sufficient to make that happen. But like I said, that's not what's happening.


...
Perhaps.

I really don't think they're all that 'not worth it'...
But very well. Let's hear your counteroffer.

... You do realize that if I had Pierce make these decisions for himself either you or Impact would be getting all pissy about it?

Which is why I decided to have Pierce clear it with Impact, and since you're not posting, yes, a tiny amount of god-moding was necessary. Or are we going by the assumption that Impact simply went mysteriously mute around the time that your posting became scarce?

Like I said, it happened before you posted. I never meant it as a counter-argument. But hey, post edited now.

See, now that you're saying it I don't believe you.

And, you know, since I don't believe that Charlotte would be a highly competent, effective leader, I think I'd rather have to owe you a favor later.

... That is what you did. You worded it in a way that made it seemed like the favor was being forgotten, but goddamn man!

I could've masked my proposal to depose Impact in a way that made it seem like I was doing you a favor, but that wouldn't have changed the fact that I was screwing you over!

You were saying that one moderate favor was worth having Charlotte as leader. And you were trying to get me to agree. However way you want to put it, that is cashing in the favor.

And here it is:

I'm going to shoot myself in the foot here. I'll vote for Charlotte. In exchange, you will forget the moderate favor and if for whatever reason Charlotte ever has to step down as leader, Pierce gets the job, no questions asked.

And of course, I promise not to organize Charlotte's downfall or have a hand in it in any way.

And now you've fallen into my trap! You're going to feel so bad about me selling out for such a low price that you're going to sweeten this up for me. Kinda like a kid resignedly giving you his candy.

First, thanks for editing. Though...

Sure, we can assume he had some feedback. But hey, he's a soldier in combat, he can't always devote his attention to leading.

Though, conveniently, his breaks from leadership will coicide exactly with mine. ^^
Also, because we're finally done here, apparently (I can hardly believe it), I'm willing to let Renny and Pierce share the credit for the last few turns. Mind you, I have time now, so the amount of credit they get to take ends with the latest plan you posted. Still. There's your candy.

In fact, lemme just resummarize the deal:

- I give up leadership. This means Impact no longer commands the watchmen, in-battle or out. We're gonna need to justify this idea, I favor that Impact would get promoted in a manner that's technically more advantageous to him, but that causes him to lose all authority over the Watchmen. AB, would it be feasible that he gets some sort of military rank, for some reason? Rayleen seemed pretty impressed with him, and there's gonna be a lot of Prideguard prisoners by the time the battle's over. Maybe put him in charge of integrating those prisoners into PATCA? He'd technically get more power, but he'd have no command over the Watchmen. I don't give up all claim to leadership, but unless some really, really drastic change happens, plot-wise or otherwise, I won't attempt to regain it. Impact's imperious, commanding manner will continue, but he won't actually have any authority to back it up, so your characters can retaliate however they please, should he be too much of a dick. One thing I reserve the right to, is to negotiate later to have Impact lead during the last mission. It'd be nicely thematic, and, quite probably, plot-important. I won't negotiate yet, but when I do, I'd discuss this with all of you, and you will probably be compensated.

- Charlotte replaces Impact as leader. This may be because Rayleen gets really, really drunk, or because Impact picks her as his replacement, which I favor. If Charlotte drops out, Pierce replaces her as leader.
...
Charlotte had better not drop out.
Just to clarify, though, Pierce is still a standard tactician, on the same level as Impact or Renny. He's not vice-leader, he's just a guy takes initiative if the actual leader is no longer active.
Also, I'll do my best to ensure Charlotte's competence.

-The moderate favor Drac owed me is forgotten.

- Within the next few days, I'll post several rules and guidelines, regarding which changes in character power, and general modifications to the battle system, are permissible. The goal thereof would be to channel character power, limit excessive growth, make sure all characters have roughly the same strength, and generally stop the battle system from getting screwed by not-thought-out changes. These are still sort of vague, but I've described them before, and they'd be in the vein of the arguing I've done so far. We'd discuss these, but my willingness to compromise would be limited. Yours, I hope, would be less so. Should our discussion of these fail and we be unable to agree on guidelines, the entire deal would have to be reevaluated. Please do not let this happen. Once the guidelines are all worked out, you'd agree to abide by them (meaning you wouldn't make imbalanced suggestions, and argue against all those who do make them). I'd have to trust you not to screw me over by purposefully misinterpreting them. Spirit of the law, people. Not the letter. But you knew that.

That's all, I think. Does everyone agree to this?

Oh wait, no I don't!

That's right! I'm betraying you! Again!

Ha ha!


...
Nah, just kidding. I'm in.

Though, I would like to clarify. When I say "if Charlotte ever steps down as leader" I mean even if it's a temporary stepping down Pierce will be put in charge. When she returns, Pierce will hand leadership back, of course.

And this is just an opinion: I've already expressed my views that Impact's job change should be more of a sideways motion. "Promotion" just has so many connotations to it, and I'd hate for Charlotte's leadership to be impaired by Impact technically being her superior and her having to follow, or thinking she has to follow, his "suggestions".

EDIT: I am going to laugh so hard if it turns out Dante doesn't want Charlotte as leader.

That wouldn't be nice. I'd have to... take care of matters.have a polite and civilized conversation with him outlining the pros and cons of his unfortunate choice. And besides, didn't he already say yes?

And Impact abandons all rank-based authority. That means, whatever we arrange to remove his leader status, even if he should become the sole remaining legitimate Prideguard general, we'd do it in a way that makes it impossible for Impact to use this authority to get his way during missions, or in any other PATCA-related context. The simplest case would just be for me to agree to avoid doing so, which I do. Impact's no longer leader, people. Once Dante agrees again. I won't try to get around that. In return, I expect that none of you try to get around the rules we'll set up.

And the Charlotte thing, yeah. That's what I meant.

I forget.

To be fair, who of us remembers what Dante does?

Oooooooh SNAP.
You just burned Dante. He is ON FIRE OH MAN SOMEBODY PUT HIM OUT HE IS DYING OH NO HE IS DEAD NOW because Drac BURNED HIM.

Do I make myself clear? Now, let's talk about something less inane. Not sure what.

Right, I've got a day off and I plan to put a lot of work in today.

Starting off with Geminex. You can't get a military rank because PATCA is not a military organization. Additionally, you are a squadron leader. Stuff like interrogation and integrating units into the squadron is not your responsibility. And no, you cannot make it your responsibility.

There isn't going to be a lot of Prideguard prisoners after the battle. In fact, the only thing PATCA gets that originally belonged to the Prideguard in Grant's Arceus.

Hell, if it comes to that, I'd actually have Matthias do it for interrogation and Rayleen's replacement to work on squadron assignment. With Porygon Z's hacking ability, Matthias is well capable of gathering all kinds of information, especially the kinds of information that even I as GM wouldn't want him to find. He could concievably break the plot in certain places.

Then he could go up to prisoners during interrogation with all of his printed evidence and be all Phoenix Wright on a motherfucker.

Speaking of Dante, I need more details on your character's appearance in order to create a decent sprite of him. All I have are details about what Venomoth characteristics he has. Nothing about hair color or eye color or the clothes he wears.

Same for Menarker. All I have for Renny is that he's a cute li'l munchkin with messy blond hair. No eye color or clothes to speak of. Please tell me that he does wear something. I'd hate to think that all this time, Renny as a 16-year old boy has been running around and fighting while stark naked.

As for the sprite comic, I guess it's about...oh, 70% done? The toughest part for me (dialogue) is finished. The sprites for Impact, Pierce, and Charlotte are all done. I just need expanded descriptions on what Renny and Matthias look like so I can create sprites of them. I imagine the comic will be finished probably Tuesday or Wednesday afternoon. All I can say for the sprite comic is, I think you're all going to hate me for taking one dimension of your character and focusing completely on that for the dialogue. But it is funny. At least I'm laughing.

I'll have the RP post finished this afternoon sometime. In my mind, Moera just seems to get more and more badass. I think she's going to end up becoming one powerful villain.

I'm not sure about actually branding the Geminex avatar on the arm. I had an idea where it changes color based on outside stimuli, the blue being all conditions normal, red when enemies are detected, yellow when unsafe environmental conditions are detected, and other crap.

YES.

YES FUCK YES THIS IS WHAT'S BEEN HAPPENING.

NO SERIOUSLY, THIS IS IT.

CAN YOU IMAGINE IF HE USED VALIANT RUSH? OH WOW.

Don't worry, I'll probably be laughing. Though, if you do Pierce wrong I'll be protesting in-between laughs.

Fuck no.

I swear to Christ, I will have Pierce go all OOC and behead her, torch her, dip her in acid then nuke the remains if that's what it takes to keep her from coming back.

That'd be cheating, wouldn't it? I'm totally against giving Geminex a way to detect spies.

Also, you can have all sorts of fancy toys for detecting unsafe conditions, so the avatar doesn't need that particular feature.

Well, yeah. We're looking for an excuse for Impact to no longer be leader. I don't want him to get demoted though, so what I'm thinking is this:

- For some reason or another, Impact gets rank in the military (my suggestion to justify this would have been military integration, but I'd be happy to make it something else).

- Because, as you said, PATCA is not a military organization, he cannot have both military and PATCA rank. He'd still go on missions because hell, he's still a watchman, he just can't be an officer in PATCA because of some technicality.

- This would justify his no-longer-being-leader without disadvantaging him.

And hell, all the stuff you state as fact is only fact because you say it is. If you change your mind, it's no longer fact. Can I get you to change your mind in order to facilitate this deal?

Edit:
And ok, I'll start taking the tatoo idea seriously. I'm thinking scythe-blades crossed behind a blood ruby. For certain, honored forces. They wear it as a mark of pride.