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Pokemon Umbral Theatre 2: Devoted to That She-Devil, Charlotte Beaufort
Forgot we hit over a hundred post. My last search in gelbooru turned up some pictures which remind me of Bard's character, Charlotte Beaufort.
First off, check this babe. Reminds me what I envision Charlotte as, right down to the claw-like fingernails. http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/...onUmbral58.jpg And this is without a doubt Charlotte's Houndoom, Sol-leks. http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/...onUmbral73.jpg Anyways, I don't have anymore information to post, so I'm just going to post two more images. Funny ones. You don't mind, right? First up, I had to save this image. You can blame Bard's avatar for this one. http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/...onUmbral76.png And this image makes me feel what Satoshi (Ash) would ever feel if he came to Honmyr. http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/...onUmbral84.jpg That is all. Carry on with your abuseful bickering. |
Makes you wonder, what if it was naked female pokemon? Would Ash get a stiffy then?
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If Ash can't put 'em in a pokeball, I doubt he'd give a shit.
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But read 2 pages' worth of semi-relevant (at best) bickering and insults which MAY OR MAY NOT contain anything of actual interest? Fuck that and the horse it rode in on. Quote:
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Look, when you multi-class, you don't suddenly get extra stats. You can't suddenly carry extra items. You don't gather extra rage. You get extra actions sometimes, but those are exceptions. Why should you get extra actions now? Quote:
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Also, what the fuck? "No reason given why"? I'd adivse that you read my posts more carefully. It doesn't make sense for multi-classing to give extra power, only more variety (except, like I said, in certain exceptions). This is not one such exception. So take the variety, stop whining about the power. Cause right now you're playing the victim, and you're anything but. Quote:
1: Based on existing abilities and classes (no inventing new classes, try to re-use old abilities if you can, but don't be afraid to come up with new abilities if nothing's been proposed yet that suits you) 2: Characters must be roughly equal in power throughout their development Other than that, total freedom. Seriously, everything you people are agreeing to is stuff I already said. Is that it? Does everything I propose need 1-2 threads to actually sink in (5 in AB's case) before someone goes "Hey, this is actually a good idea!"? Quote:
You get one action as trainer. You use that action to use trainer actions. Later you can also use it to use Pokebrid actions. But you aren't actually getting any extra actions. Since accessory slots take the place of the trainer/pokebrid action, you shouldn't get an extra accessory slot either. Also, stop whining about paradigm shift giving you rage problems. You don't want rage problems, you don't put a single level into a rage-specific class. YOU DO NOT, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, START MODIFYING THE UPGRADE SYSTEM TO SUIT YOUR NEEDS. Quote:
When we reach the point where we are quoting posts BY NUMBER, we have gone too far. Like, seriously. Way, way too far. Everyone. Take a step back. Consider. What the fuck are we doing here? I like discussions. But they don't always have to be so fucking LONG! Seriously, it's possible to say what you want to say in 25 words or less! I guarantee! Just try it! Honestly, Menarker you tell me I should read everything that's written if I really want to participate in balancing, and then you go on to write a great big long post that nobody could reasonably expect anyone else to read through totally. Seriously. I know this may be a pot-kettle-black situation, but even then. Let's all just try to write less. And be less officious about this sort of thing. And maybe even start taking it less seriously. Quote:
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Let us customize everything from level 5 onwards. We base what we do on the templates you've made. We'll be able to do what we want with our characters, I'll take care of the balancing, and by the time we're done, we'll be better for it. It'll be easier than balancing the upgrade system. And more fun, certainly. Come on. |
Yeah, we probably should forget all about it and just customize our advanced classes. I'm on board.
Anyway, question about Menarker's Valiant Rush: Okay, you probably (definitely) intended otherwise, but the way I'm understanding it you would only be able to do up to five hits with Valiant Rush. Or seven, if you get 150 RPs from Gaea's second Wind. Hell, maybe twelve if you can pay from from that Slayer accessory that gathers Rage (I forget the name), and take the time to charge it up. Because, the way I see it, it would only allow you to do as many hits as you can pay with the amount of Rage you currently have, regardless of how much Rage will get deducted when you take into account the downed allies. The Rage deduction would then get tacked on. So... did I get it right? |
No, it could go higher if there are people in critical or knocked out condition. The rage deduction comes before the payment.
A) Let's say there was no Second Wind, no Rage Tank. Let's say Renny had 60 rage. If everyone was perfectly healthy, Renny could only pay for up to 3 attacks. Frankly, Renny can do better with his rage as a support dude. B) If we assume the above example but alter it so three NPCs were in critical condition or knocked out, then he could either attack 3 times for free (no rage spent but he'd be unable to use it for three turns regardless of how much rage he built up), or he could attack up to 6 times, spending the required 20 rage for each one beyond 3. C) In the VERY WORST situation for the group, but the best situation for Valiant Rush: 1) Where Renny has no items to revive anyone with and thus doesn't spend the rage on something better like Prosperous Gifts. (Or if a boss is charging up an attack where it would nuke the entire arena in an instant gameover ala Sin from Final Fantasy 10, the bastard) 2) Where there is a full party set-up with no slot empty. 3) Renny has 250 rage from Rage Tank (100), Second Wind (50) and his normal rage gauge filled up (100). (This pretty much means that Renny would have to not spent rage the entire battle for attacking or supporting, and thus this example would never happen anyhow.) 4) Impact and his enforcer is knocked out (40 rage), Pierce and his enforcer is knocked out (40 rage), Charlotte and her enforcer knocked out (40 rage), Dante and his enforcer knocked out (40 rage), Renny's enforcer and all his pokemons knocked out (80 rage), Shock Trooper knocked out (20 rage), Medic knocked out (20 rage), Engineer knocked out (20 rage), and Sniper knocked out (20). (Destroyers can't be damaged) Basically, under the circumstances where Renny is utterly charged up to the maximum and everyone else in the group has their face buried in the dirt, Renny's pokemon included. (With the exception of the destroyer) Under those IMPOSSIBLE circumstances, which should really for all purpose be a TPK and is never to happen statistically unless AB deliberately wanted to showcase Renny (which I would find completely tacky and crude at the very least), then Renny could attack a WHOPPING 32 times! 12 from actual rage spent (10 rage left over) and the rest coming from deductions. Every 20 rage being an attack. Mind you, it would be out of character since Renny would not have horded that much rage if he could have used the rage he could get to use Serene Blessing or so to protect the party from getting to that point. Keep in mind, this is 130 Power Almighty typed after crit. It is powerful in big numbers, but individually, even normal pokemons do consistantly more damage if they use STAB and even more so with Super Effective hits. A fire type using a fire move with 100 power would have 150 power right there due to STAB, which would become 300 power if it hit something super effective or 600 power for the rare quad effective foes like Scizor. EDIT: Anyhow, I'm writing my customized class as I speak, although I'm still waiting for AB to post the templates for demon as well as the accessories. |
That's...
Yeah. Anyway, my customized class is really one level of Breeder so y'know, not much to do there. |
Do as you will. I've got duty today and, if time is merciful, I'll hopefully get a lot of stuff done (post, demon upgrades, even some of the sprite comic) and ready to post as soon as I get home Wednesday afternoon.
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Hehe, since Demons are already a custom class and we're just waiting for AB to set the standard.
I changed a few things on my custom class, but keeping mostly to what the upgrades sheet says. One thing I did include though was "Conditional Upgrades". Basically upgrades that we agree would only be granted upon fulfilling certain requirements. Like the entire Shock Trooper effect (Battle Masters fighting alongside their pokemon) we agreed would require around at level 4 levels of slayer and 4 levels of trainer or something like that. Heck, I might as well post those ones here... Conditional Upgrades Basically, they won't be granted on a specific level, but if the requirements are met, you automatically get them. |
That's... really unnecessary, the conditionals.
Because you choose when you get your upgrades, all you have to do is say "Oh, I want to get this at Pokebrid level 1", and specify that you're going to get a couple of levels of Slayer first. Also, conditonal upgrades really should be more of a proposal, rather than something you just assume you're going to get through customization. Because, see we'd only get to customize our advanced classes, that is, any class we're taking beyond level 5. And the upgrades you're suggesting apply to classes when they're below level 5. Basically, put it in orange. Also, if we do let you get conditional upgrades, all the rest of your shit better be severely underpowered. |
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^^; If it helps, I got a rough draft proposal here, although I'm still waiting for AB to see about demon classes and the accessories. So it's not final. Also not listed in any particular order, although I can promise that Pokebrid is coming up next. The only altered thing about level 1 to 4 was taking the changes that we all approved regarding Trainer Actions being 1 technique for every second level of trainer (2 and 4) as opposed to the old trainer attack at level 3. Already Earned Level 5 onwards Conditional Upgrades So... even though I'd still like to wait for AB to submit everything, you guys got any relevant thoughts? Mind you, I wrote this assuming that "customizing everything level 5 on" meant character level, although I kept it similar to the upgrades sheet in most respect. And once again, this is not finalized. Although it's as close to it as it will be before I see what AB dishes out. |
Overpowered.
Obscenely. I mean, it's disgusting. And yeah, Geminex meant that we only get to customize our classes once we get past level 5 in those classes. Not after our characters reach their fifth upgrade. Trust me dude. Specifically? I'm against your Protective Guard, and your upgrade at Breeder level 2 that makes your pokemon immune to domination. I'm also rather iffy at your stat boosts, and Improved Mobility Armored. |
Raise your hand if you saw this coming a mile away, Geminex.
Admit it. Anyone with two brain cells knew what was going to result from this idea of customizing your own advanced classes. It wouldn't stop thread long arguements, only change their direction and possibly make them longer. I'm going to go to duty now, and hopefully I can deal with the encroaching headache that will be this thread when I get home. |
Hey, they haven't gotten long yet!
Give us a chance, we'll change! |
Regarding Upgrades in general:
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Also, a good deal of the upgrades that Slayers normally get wouldn't apply since they relate to weapons, which my character gave up. So what I summed in was a "Follow Me" technique (useful if you're careful), the two "conditionals upgrades" and otherwise spread out the upgrades further, making getting one accessory at level 2 instead of the normal two and getting increased attack power a bit later. Regarding Protective Guard: 1) Doesn't take rage from other people, so it won't count as a way to gain rage. 2) Doesn't reduce damage at all. It's basically damage redirection. 3) Thematic in a caring/heroic "Body as a Shield" sort of way. 4) It's similar to your Mock ability except it's an actual upgrade that wouldn't be a free action. More like an item use action or so. Unless there is something else you're concerned about? Regarding Domination: 1) Removed Custom Item for it. 2) Very situational as only bosses seem to have anything like domination atm and not even frequently. And even the fact of confusion is that it only prevents damage. If it would succeed, it would still be a Null Turn on the pokemon. 3) BTW, it's on Breeder 1 not 2. 4) Very thematic given how loyal the pokemons should be to Renny. Regarding Stat Boosts: Pokemons/pokebrids are not equally effective attackers most of the time. Usually, they got one attack strong and the other weak. Pokebrids also got lower stats than Slayers except for a select few that are higher than normal. This would help more than stats all across the board. Slayers can use all around stats because they can use all attack types and such, but not Pokebrids. Plus, I intend to use a bit of speed, which is otherwise situational. Gem also proposed this sort of thing too and AB summed it up here. Quote:
Regarding Improved Mobility RDPA: It's not any bit more powerful in strength or defense. No additional uses either. Just a conversion in more freedom in which turns it is used, and a little boost in that Overdrive doesn't cause it to be rendered useless for the rest of the battle (as long as there are uses leftover). So yeah, I think what I proposed is strong, but since I kept mostly to the update sheets, removed some stuff and spread the upgrades thinner in places to keep it more balanced, I thought it would be appropriate. Anyhow, still waiting to see what the accessories are. And the demon template so we know how to scale things. |
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I'd get to customize four levels of Demon and one of Breeder, for five. You'd get to customize three levels of Overblade and one of Breeder. Yeah, you and me are tied. Geminex is the one that gets the most customization, which is understandable because, y'know, it's Demon class, and it's not like he'd be copy-pasting all the best upgrades from the other classes. If Gem was thinking ahead, you really think he would put it at level 5, which is really just two steps away? At least he'd try not to be so obvious about it and put it at like level 8 or 9 or 10 or something. Quote:
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Second, if you'll remember my proposed Magatama, I wanted Pierce to get an ability. That did pretty much this. He'd stand in front of an ally and take all the damage directed at them. Except, y'know, it'd have a Rage cost, and presumably the ally he's protecting wouldn't get any Rage either. See, my version is more balanced than yours. I mean really, what you're getting is a free action, since you didn't specify anything like "have to give up item use for that turn" or whatever. Also, have we decided that you can give up Slayer weapons for powering up Pokebrid moves? I mean, I know you proposed it, and I remember Geminex disagreed with it, and I don't remember if we even reached a conclusion. Now you're just posting it as it originally was, like nothing happened. Quote:
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"It's thematic" is not a main reason to justify anything! I mean yes, it holds some weight, but not much. I mean, if it actually mattered, then Pierce would be invincible because "it's thematic". Not to mention, it's extremely easy to change your character's development so that an ability that wouldn't have been thematic before suddenly becomes so. So we can say that "it's thematic" should really not be a valid reason. Anyway. "At the moment" does not mean that regular enemies won't be able to throw Domination and all the other effects like it around like party favors later. I mean, for fuck's sake, Domination was only introduced like, one RP page ago! You can't possibly know if any of it is going to be widespread or not. Custom item is not worth immunity to like two different statuses, NOT TO MENTION AN ENTIRE CLASS. Quote:
Also, I would propose that instead you get an upgrade that lets you rearrange your Slayer stats, so you don't actually have to have 100 across the board. Maybe some slightly weaker stat boosts to go with it. Quote:
So you spread out your accessory availability, whooptie-do. You're still getting them. So you gave up a custom item, and the Ricewood Rifle. It has to stay at relatively the same power level as the upgrades are now, man! I mean, for God's sakes, you made yourself immune to the Snagger class! |
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As for Snaggers, It's also not immunity to a class, but a class feature. Snaggers got more pokemons than trainers, so Renny would still have to contend with all that. The difference is that, out of all the targets that Snaggers can choose to steal from, Renny's pokemon would not be eligible. Quote:
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But yeah, I'll see what I can edit. I'm still waiting to see what AB says about Demon classes, but I'll take another look at what I can do. |
You're getting immunity to THE class feature that makes Snaggers Snaggers.
I mean, it'd be like me giving Pierce an armor that instantly breaks Slayer weapons, or makes him immune to pokemon moves. Simply? It's a no-no. The whole point of Snaggers is that they can steal your pokemon and fuck up your whole strategy. Sure, they can still target anyone else, but Snagging isn't a status effect you can protect against. Also, Snaggers only GET more pokemon than Trainers if they can, y'know, SNAG 'EM. Not to mention, your proposed Shock Trooper conditional upgrade would certainly even the odds. Or, more accurately, tip them in your favor. |
Level 5 onwards
Ok. I did the following edits from the last submission: 1) Removed Protective Guard entirely. 2) Heavily altered Domination/Snagger immunity to more of a resistance. 3) Edited the stats so I can edit my stats at the start, but get less total stats growth than normal slayers do. 4) Kept Improved Mobility RDPA as is. Thoughts? AB: How would a pokebrid who goes slayer have their stats change? Pokebrids got one formula and Slayers are all arounders who are stronger in almost every stat due to having psuedo legendary builds. |
Seems more acceptable.
Now let's see what Geminex has to say. Though, I'd suggest dropping Renny's chance to snap his pokemon out of Domination to something like 70 or 75%, or even less. Seems like you're taking advantage of AB's guesstimating. Basically, as it is, Renny would instantly get his pokemon back from Domination. Maybe if Renny's pokemon got dominated one or two more times, THEN it'd fail. What I'm suggesting is that you make a realistic chance that Renny's pokemon won't snap out of Domination on the first try. 20% is, I think, not realistic. |
What I'm starting to get curious about now is what Bard or Dante are planning for their future levels. :3
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I'm curious about Bard. I remember him saying that he might not take Charlotte to Slayer, so I wonder what he'd make her. Pokebrid or Demon? Or maybe both.
As for Matthias, I think he said a while back he was considering Snagger. |
Except that Bard said that Charlotte doesn't trust Pokebrid OR Demon. He DID want to combine Snagger with Trainer, but with the conflict in the classes, it was a no-go...
Until now, since we're customizing our classes. YOU HEAR THAT BARD? Now is your chance! |
Heh. Suddenly I'm wishing I were taking Sophia past 5 in any class. Maybe I could shave off a level of Trainer, but I really don't want to.
I dunno, maybe I can something with her Demon levels. Also AB, do I customize classes for Elizabeth and Sam too or just follow your pre-existing upgrades? Them being NPCs and all. |
Man I stopped comprehending this long ago.
Explain to me what the verdict is again? |
Bard, we're making custom classes *to an extent* , AND YOU get the chance to make your trainer/snagger character like you wanted in the first place.
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Apparently we're customizing each of our upgrades for every class past level 5.
Well, Menarker has some confusion about it, but he's a stinky dummyface. |
K
I got an idea then. |
STOP.
HAMMERTIME. Or something along those lines. First, AB: Come on. Your way was just as bad, there was just as much discussion. And besides, this hasn't really started yet. Lemme handle it, for now. Secondly, all of you fuckers: I'm glad to see you're suddenly so enthusiastic about this, but when I suggested this, my suggestion wasn't "Let's just start customizing our classes!". It was "Let's start customizing our classes after we get a template from AB and we agree on specific restrictions. " I'm not gonna utterly ignore what Drac and Menarker discussed, but I think, for now, it should be put on hold until we've at the very least finalized the BR. In fact, HERE HAVE SOME BR: 1: REASONS AND GOALS - The reasoning behind this, is that this, quite simply, isn't a competitive RP. A gain in individual power of one character over all other characters will do nothing but increase the importance of this character in battle, and prompt long, long, LOOOOONG discussions. These discussions are not enjoyable, to anyone. Hence, the best way to avoid unenjoyable-ness, and to make the RP equally enjoyable for everyone, is to make sure that characters' power remains roughly equal throughout the RP. This is the First Goal. - In addition, the battle system we use is becoming increasingly complex. As such, it has a variety of flaws. While it's not an absolutely horrible thing to exploit these flaws, abusing the existing ruleset to a degree that changes the face of Combat As We Know It, also out. The system works, let's keep it as it is by not actively abusing the rules. 2: ACTUAL REGULATIONS a) CHARACTER POWER There are only three "real" constraints to an individual character's power: Firstly, that all characters have equal power, Secondly, that no character be more powerful than AB wants them to be. Thirdly, that specialization should pay off. More on that later. As long as these three are met, we're free. To help those three be met, here's some additional constraints: - Unless it's agreed beforehand that every character should get a pretty massive power boost, you should refrain from suggesting such boosts. "Pretty massive" is stuff like "Huge (factor of 2.5 or more) increase in rage generation", Pretty great increase in stats (Anything more than 300 in total), or large increases in offensive or defensive power. Or, y'know, something equivalent. Mind you, that's only what I see as the "absolute upper limit". That's only the stuff you probably shouldn't suggest at all, unless, like I said, it's been agreed that everyone gets something like this. Even if what you're suggesting is considerably weaker than this, consider: -Is anyone else likely to get a similar power boost? -Have you correctly estimated the power of this upgrade? Even if it seems weak alone, does it synergize with any of your other upgrades, upgrades that were strong enough in their own right? - How's your character specialized? How does your proposed upgrade change your character's specialization? By all means, feel free to spread your risks, to specialize on different things! But if other characters have put more time and effort into specializing in a certain area than you have, any upgrade that makes you their equal is, once again, a no-no. b) THE SYSTEM What counts for individual character upgrades also counts for the system in general. Consider how any change you propose in the system will affect character power and specialization. Also consider how it'll affect the way battles work. What we're doing right now seems pretty cool, and while I think it should develop, I would be loath to have it change drastically and force us to rethink basically everything. So, try to regulate that kind of change. I'll probably add a bit on to that, to give specific examples and suchlike. Probably also give you guys a way to compare power, maybe a scale of sorts. But does this sort of make clear what I'm trying to say? And d'you think you can agree to that? Edit: Quote:
Would that, in your view, be a problem? I mean, more customization, less customization? |
Meh, I thought you were reproposing the same thing you suggested a while back, which I understood was customizing our advanced classes.
But I'm fine with this one too. |
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^^ I knew I was right and not the stinky dummyface that Drac accused me of being! =P Anyhow, I don't think Drac would argue against it, since he had wishes and particular designs that he wanted to do in class levels before 5 as I quoted above, but he misinterpreted the customization process you proposed. Anyhow, now we all got nothing to do since all we can do is wait for AB to come back and post the templates before we can even proceed since Gem said we shouldn't continue unti then. Good Night |
Ok. Glad we all agree on that. Now how about the stuff that actually matters. Y'know, the stuff in red.
What objections, if any, do you have? What suggestions, if any, do you have? And how would you interpret these rules? Gimme a few examples, what goes, what doesn't go? |
What doesn't go?
Getting an ability that makes me immune to an entire class! Like, I dunno, making my pokemon unSnaggable. Even making them resist Snagging can be a little iffy. |
Now, you're just trolling me again.
You're just bitter that I was right in the first place.:knowledge: Anyhow, Gem, in case you're wondering what the heck Drac is going on about, he's referring to my tenative and not finalized proposed customized class where one of the features was "ensured pokemon loyalty" as a Breeder 1 feature. At first, it was immunity to be snagged and domination immunity, but it got reduced to heavy resistance to it. It also replaced a custom item and generally impossible to exploit since it's a preventive/defensive feature that is extremely situational. Hence why I stand by the heavy resistance. Oh and Drac is totally jerking around when he said immune to a class. He means immune to a class feature. Snaggers could still cause problems with their large numbers, since a higher level Tuner apparently has 7 or even 8 pokemons before counting pokemons they snagged (which may include other PCs or NPC's pokemons) As for your stuff in red, I think the hard part is not whether those proposed limitations are appropriate since they look good at first glance, but arguing or debating whether a proposed ability or set of abilities actually follow those rules or not. That's usually where all the frustrations and arguments comes from. |
Yeah, I saw that.
But why would you describe it as "situational"? It weakens the "confusion" effect, it prevents snagging and it prevents domination. And unless we know how frequently we're gonna meet that sort of ability, we don't know how situational it really is. Considering that Snaggers are probably gonna get more frequent (they have been rather under-represented), confusion is, if not common, then at least a possibility, and domination has just been used, I'm... uncertain. It's a defensive boost certainly, and from what I judge, more powerful than a custom hold item. But that can wait.\ But back to DA RULEZZZ. I asked several questions regarding them. I'd appreciate a response when I wake up tomorrow morning, cause I'll be off soon. |
You're looking at the old one if you're talking about confusion effect. I'll repost the new one in a sec.
EDIT: There Already Earned Level 5 onwards Conditional Upgrades |
Ok. That's all cool. And I'll be happy to discuss that once the important stuff is done. I already have a few opinions, I'm most iffy about the Integrated Combat training (plus, I'm thinking you should just put the conditional upgrades somewhere into the earned-by-level stuff, but it looks allright.
But the important stuff is, by definition, more important. Please. I proposed this two threads ago, you could have started doing this ages ago. Waiting a bit longer, making a few more posts finalizing the BR won't kill you. |
I did put the conditional upgrades in their respective levels (Slayers 1 and 4 respectively). Just didn't want to clog the respective upgrades section with the fine print for Integrated Combat Training.
At least I'm happy to know you're more or less fine with what is there so far. But like I said, it's all tenative as I'm waiting for the results of Demon templates and the accessories. Plus, I don't have any specific rules in mind regarding the rules for customization since not only do I look at things on each individual basis rather than setting rules in advance (the ones you already suggested seems to make a good basis), but I'm also the more lenient and relaxed of the three of us most of the time. :3 |
Eh, I don't really have anything to change about the BR. They seem okay.
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I decided, due to boredom, to give an example of what sort of effect Intergrated Combat Training would do.
For this example, I'm using Mamoswine and his pre-evolutions as the pokebrid form in question. Whether or not I'm actually using it or any of his types is up to you guys to guess futilely. I'll explain all the rules regarding the moves, one by one. A) Unlimited Slayer empowered moves belonging to the respective pokebrid's type/s. Mamoswine is an Ice/Ground type. Thus all Ice moves and all Ground moves that don't violate the other rules get the benefit of the power boost and slayer benefits. This apply to all Ice and Ground moves, whether naturally learned or by tutoring or Breeding or TM. B) Unlimited Slayer empowered moves to moves learned by level-up. This doesn't apply to moves that can only be gained by breeding, tutoring or so. This means that all moves in addition to Ice and Ground type moves that are learned naturally by level up by Mamoswine or the evolutions below it counts towards the boost. But moves from tutoring or breeding does not count. This means in Mamoswine's case, that in addition to Ice and Ground moves that it automatically gains, it can also learn Double Hit and Take Down which are normal type moves, Peck which is flying type, and Ancient Power which is Rock. Note that sometimes a pokemon pre-evolution will have a move that its evolution will not have. An example would be Mudkip who learns Hydro Pump which Swampert would never learn. If the move of a pre-evolution would fit the criteria, then it qualifies for Intergrated Combat Training. (AB mentioned to me that Pokebrids can use moves of all their previous evolution stages.) C) Extra moves for 3 other types. Each of those types enable 3 empowered moves. This means I can choose 9 extra moves, up to 3 from 3 types. No more than 3 for any single type and no more than 3 types getting more than 1 attack. In this case with Mamoswine, I'd choose: Normal: Giga Impact, Facade, Body Slam Rock: Stone Edge, Rock Slide, Rock Tomb Fighting: SuperPower and Rock Smash. There is no third Fighting move in Mamoswine's movelist, so that one doesn't get filled in. D) All other element types only get 1 attack. If the pokebrid does not have an attack of a certain element, that attack type is unavailable and only accessible by RDPA if chosen. All other elements only get 1 representative move. Thus, Mamoswine gets: Steel: Iron Head Dark: Bite All other elements that Mamoswine has not been able to cover, it'll have to do without or access only via RDPA with its additional attack types to offer. E) All the above only applies to moves with Attack subtype, not Special Attack. (Status moves don't need buffing anyhow) This means that all moves with the Special Attack subtype does not count. They can still be used, but they only count as fighting as a Pokebrid. As noticed above, I mentioned that Mamoswine gets Ancient Power for leveling up. However, since that is a special type move, it doesn't qualify anymore. Same with moves that belong to its type such as the AOE move Blizzard or the accuracy reducing Mud Bomb. It can only use physical moves like Earthquake and Ice Fang. This restriction applies whether it is breeding, TM or tutoring or level-up. F) All the moves that fit the above count as Slayer attacks and thus qualify for any upgrades or factors that influence them such as base power, slayer armor STAB bonus and rage generation and anything else Slayer Related. So for all the moves that fit the criterias, they count as Slayer attacks and thus can be used with accessories like the Double Attack Accessory, using them count toward Overblade's boosted rage and so on and so forth. Hope that example gives a good example of what is meant for Integrated Combat Training. It also occurs to me that there should be a power reduction or even a restriction against multi-hit moves like Double Hit or Icicle Spear. (Not that I ever planned to use them in the first place, since all the moves I planned to use are single hit). Anyhow, this blends the combat diversity that BOTH Slayer and Pokebrid (pokebrid more so) possesses while keeping power high (slayer more so). However, as a drawback, the side effects of most techniques tend to be weaker than normal slayer weapons. Most pokemon Ice moves only have a 10% chance of freezing while the Slayer's Ice weapon has a whopping 50% chance of doing so. In general, most status effects moves from pokemon moves do not work as well as slayer weapons. In addition, depending on the pokemon chosen, some elements will not ever be accessible without the RDPA. |
Couple of qualms:
1) I don't remember if Pokebrids can use the moves that aren't available to their forms, but are available to the pre-evolutions to their forms. Though I notice you didn't actually list any moves available to Mamoswine's pre-evolutions, there. Still, part B) says that you would be able to use them. 2) Even though Pokebrids still have the most diversity, the fact is they have some moves that are worthless because they have access to more powerful versions of those moves. For example, Mamoswine has no reason to use Mud-Slap when it can use Mud Bomb, or Ice Fang or Powder Snow when it can use Ice Beam. Therefore, the argument "but I'm only getting a few powered-up moves out of Mamoswine's HUGE movepool" has slightly less weight when that huge movepool is reduced to the few moves that are actually, y'know, useful. 3) Though the "only moves that take Attack into account get powered-up" limitation is nice, how would you justify it ingame? |
1) I didn't list them in Mamoswine's case because he's a case of more or less straight out evolution (his only quirk is that he evolves when he knows a certain move). For some pokemons that evolves through evolution stones, they know different elements moves that their pre-evolution would not know.
And even some level up pokemons learn different moves. Lombre, the evolved form of Lotad learns Hydro Pump as his most powerful move, which is water type. The opposite is true with his earliest form, Lotad, which his most powerful level up moves are grass, Energy Ball. Ludicolo, the fully evolved form on the other hand, doesn't learn any new moves, just like how Pikachu doesn't learn any new moves if it evolves into Raichu too soon. (A plot point in an early anime episode against the Electric Gym leader Lt.Surge) Also, with my Mamoswine's case, its pre-evolution could learn Amensia which Mamoswine replaces with Scary Face. AB allows me to use both of them. I just didn't include that in the example because it's a status move that couldn't care less because it doesn't have a power to boost. Anyhow, AB said that Pokebrids could use the attacks of all their previous forms. Mind you, the key word is PREVIOUS, not ALTERNATE. A Leafeon pokebrid would be able to use any of the moves that Eevee could, but it could not use any moves that Flareon or Umbreon could use if Leafeon or Eevee couldn't learn it normally. 2) Well, that is more or less true with some moves, but some moves have different effects that could be terribly useful. Ice Fang has a chance of freezing OR flinching. Avalanche has double damage if the user gets hit first. Icy Wind lowers Speed. Same with Ground type. Mud Shot lowers speed. Mud Bomb lowers Accuracy. There is a bit more variety as to which effects you want to use. Normal type moves has Body Slam for paralysis, Facade for more power when afflicted with status and so on and so forth. 3) I already explained this, but I'll explain again. The only reason why Slayers (They are mere humans if you remember) benefit from Special Attack is because they use energy weapons like Water Cannon Guns, or Ice Cannons or Electric Shock Weapons. Humans innately don't have the ability to use special attack. (People who claim to be extraordinary like true Psychics like Sabrina are the exception) It's all part of the weapon. So if Slayers lose their weapons, the only thing they can naturally use is their attack stat. Now, take Renny. He sworn off (or will swear off) weapons in general. What possible training can Slayer teach him now? The answer? How to train his body. How to make himself stronger. How to be more durable. How to fight hands on or improvise weapons out of himself or his environment. Slayers can't teach him to do Air Slashes or teach him how to breath fire, even if Renny's Pokebrid form could allow him to do that. But the things that come out of using your own physical body... Slayer can help teach that. That is why the Attack Stat is used as the restriction. |
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Because I don't think he said he'd let you specifically use them either. Quote:
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Yes he did. I even asked via PM. I wanted to clarify the rules regarding Pokebrid when I was pondering which classes I would branch out to. Quote:
Remember how I said that that the pokemon moves would be buffed to be equal to Slayer Weapon power? Mud Shot and Mud Bomb would not have a difference powerwise. I would be able to choose which effect would better suit the situation. Do I want to attempt to lower a foe's speed and thus their crit rate? Cool. Do I want to attempt to lower a foe's accuracy? Excellent. Otherwise, their power is the same as if it was a slayer weapon. The reason why I said "could be" is because several moves DO have the same effect and their only difference would be attack power, such as your mentioned Ice Beam in comparision with moves like Powder Snow. But moves with different effects would be able to come into play more effectively when their power are equal. Glad you understand the entire Attack limitation thing. |
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Mud Shot and Mud Bomb was a bad example. I dunno if there are any, but say there are two Physical moves of the same type. Both have different power and have a chance to cause different status effects. You're telling me you'd pick the one with the least power, even if the status effect it could cause is better? Fuck no, because like I said, the chance to cause status effects is negligible when it comes to pokemon moves. You don't take it consideration. And when you pick your three moves of that type to power up, are you really going to pick the one with the least power over the one with more? Quote:
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PS: Geminex, when you said this: Quote:
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You're not getting it. Moves that qualify under Intergrated Combat Training have a power of 120 (130 when the Slayer Weapon Upgrade activates). So the difference in power between moves would not matter.
Alright, let me use another type example. DARK Dark is known for very weak move power normally despite most dark type pokemons having high attack power. In fact, the highest attack power for Dark is 80, unless you count Dark Plate Arceus with Judgement for 100 Power. However, if I was to use a dark pokemon with Intergrated Combat Training... or choose Dark for a type for extra moves. Knock Off: Knock off an item from foe. Thief: Take the item for myself. Punishment: Deals heavy damage to foes that have buffed themselves. Night Slash: High Crit Ratio Crunch: Chance to lowers Defense. Bite: Chance to Flinch Under the system, power would not matter so much, since it would be equal power. Only the effect that comes with the pokemon would matter, and I would not have to push certain moves that are useful on the wayside just because their power is weak. Am I facing a buffed foe? Punishment it is! (Only a select few have it though) Does that foe have an item I could use? YOINK! THIEF! Is that foe using an item that is useful to it but bad if I take it like Toxic Sludge? Knock off! Mind you, I don't think there is a pokemon that has all of those moves or close to it. And if it did, it's probably a Dark specific type that doesn't have a good type coverage for other elements. Or how about Flying type? Aerial Ace? Never misses! Pluck? No berry for you! Fly? Anyone who tried to hit me on the first turn just wasted their action! You get what I'm saying? The only difference in power would be in regards to STAB regarding Pokebrid type and Slayer Armor and Super Effectiveness. |
Hm, well, fair enough.
My bad. Though, I hope you're not thinking you can change the moves you power up all willy-nilly. |
No, the moves chosen are set in stone.
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Good!
Though, read up a couple of my posts back and look at that note I left for Geminex, that might affect your upgrades a bit. Though, all you'd have to do to fix it is take Trainer 5 before Pokebrid 1. |
I think Gem meant starting from level 5 onwards, since he might be getting a head-start on Demon by getting demon at level 5 and thus get two demons levels at level 6.
I pretty much have my heart set on getting Pokebrid next mission, especially because I don't want to reveal what pokebrid I chosen, and I don't want to wait and risk anyone taking a level of pokebrid and randomly choosing the one I chosen. There is also a little bit of roleplay reasons for it too a bit, stemming from the fact that Renny is not feeling that happy about his pokemon being put into danger like with Lexhur/Togekiss example or the fact that he's personally scared of being sniped or attacked directly like Regina was without any manner of protecting himself. ^^; This mission was a steep learning curve for Renny! The Pokebrid upgrade has not changed much from its original state, so hopefully that'll be allowed to proceed. EDIT: Just for reminder, the build I proposed is still tenative, meaning things might be edited after AB posts what he promises. I might very well get rid of Sweep for an extra armor or something like that. |
First: I meant we take levels 1-5 as they are, and customize everything from then on. Meaning customization starts at level 6.
And Menarker, that seems allright, sorta. One major qualm is that you'd be getting an extremely large movepool. I know, I know, you're sacrificing the Slayer Weapon effects for that. But still, Slayer attacks are very powerful. To compensate for that, they only get 6 of them (and even that's stronger than it should be, I think). The movepool available to you, of course, depends on the form you pick. And, really, I'm thinking that's what the strength of this change depends on. What move you pick. Also, what's up with Armor and STAB? Edit: Ok. So you don't have any problems with the BR. Now. Both of you. Examples. How would you interpret them? I know it isn't as interesting as our current discussion, but for god's sake, let's just finish that! |
I already totally gave an example!
"I will not make my pokemon unSnaggable." |
Well, it's not like you can switch on and off your training. And as I said before, there will be elements that the form would not be able to use. Normal Slayers don't have that limitation.
Also, I'm really trying to not give away what my pokebrid form is. Giving the movelists is pretty darn close to that. Quote:
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I know. And that was kind of a stupid question, cause I take it that you were envisioning that you'd get Slayer Armor in addition to your pokebrid typing?
And just tell me, which pokebrid form were you thinking of? That's what I need to know to judge. And Drac, could you slap yourself for me? |
Nope.
So Renny could get x1.5 and x2 STAB at the same time if he used an attack that matched his type and he wore the same element armor? |
Nooooooo. Almost certainly not, cause, see, that would go under the heading of "massive increase in attack".
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I'll see if I can reveal some of the moves, but not all. I still want to keep it more or less a secret.
And presumably, that proposed STAB situation would happen. It would like a Helping Hand on top of STAB for 2 types at most. But yeah, I could see that being a bit on top. But the armor bonus for Slayer is more than the one from Pokebrid. |
Ugh...I worked on those demon upgrades for like, three hours last night and they look like complete garbage to me.
Man, I've been melancholy all day today. I dunno what it is. If you're going to customize all your ranks, then I'm not going to bother trying to create a balanced template. That's just adding more fuel to a fire that's already burning a little too hotly in my opinion, and as of this afternoon, I'm pretty much burned out. Maybe I'm just tired. Remember what you want those Magatama to do, right? Then hopefully you can do better than me on it. I think the main problem is I was trying to juggle three demons at the same time (Impact, Pierce, and Sophie) and attempting to maintain some kind of balance despite the difference in requests. Having other templates to base the upgrades on didn't help me any. Additionally, I think that it's best that any upgrades you have in mind be withheld until the very rank that you want the upgrade on. That way we're not creating one confusing mess of hurl that even I don't want to go anywhere near and we can deal with balancing issues rank by rank by rank. Honestly, I don't mind the arguements. Some of the time, just like Krylo, I find them downright amusing. But even the funniest things in life should be exercised in moderation, yes? Besides, you may decide that you want to change a certain upgrade to something else, and so long as that upgrade hasn't come around yet, you have plenty of time to change it to your liking. A Pokesoldier, whether they were originally a Pokebrid or Slayer before the dual classing, still goes by this simple formula: Pokemon's Stats/2 + Slayer's Stats/2 You can customize your NPCs like PCs, Drac. They just won't have the permanent place in a DSS like the actual PCs do. I wouldn't worry so much about the issue regarding rendering Pokemon unable to be Dominated and Snagged, since both are actually kinda rare cases. To my knowledge so far, there are four characters who practice Domination: 1.) Impact, when he becomes a demon, 2.) Moera, the only one who has done it yet, 3.) Marionata. She's the Psychic Ruin General. It wouldn't make sense if she couldn't, and- 4.) Gardenoir, who I think is getting more and more dangerous with each passing day. Snaggers aren't the most common enemies, and chances are that there'll be other foes like them so they won't be the only concern Renny will have when it comes to his Pokemon. I'm going to surprise you with them in a very cruel way, so I'm withholding intel on them for now. So hang onto your ideas for future upgrades. You may want to change them in order to cope with future challenges. By the way, here in Guam, a new product that they're selling has me floored. Over in Thailand, they have a branch for Pringles (y'know, the chips in the cardboard tubes) and I'm guessing it was only recently that they started selling one of the best-tasting snacks I've ever had. Pringles Pocky. Well, that's what I call it. I guess the official name is Pringles Baked Wheat Stix. It's basically like Pocky, except instead of chocolate or strawberry coatings, these sticks wield the deadly trio of honey, butter, and sugar. All I can is...dayumn. |
Look, AB, let me do the preliminary shit. We'll put stuff in orange if we need you to read it, but I don't want this to result in extra work for you. Let me smooth things out, I'll write up the template (because I think it'd help a lot more than it'd do harm) and PM it to you for approval. You don't need to go through this stuff.
And I know the feeling. I always listen to this. http://homestuck.bandcamp.com/track/...vered-in-blood Though mind you, if naked girls don't help, that might be futile as well... :( |
Still, we should make even the preliminary shift as easy and smooth as possible, right? So I figure we should handle balancing one rank at a time instead of having people try to come up with no less than ten ranks worth of original upgrades.
Let's be reasonable, here. Would you want that kind of paperwork? Five players, yourself included, each throwing out ten ranks of upgrades, then it falling into the hands of...oh, four of us to find a balance that the templates I worked so hard on couldn't? I appreciate what you're doing. I'm just saying "don't work harder than you have to, even if you feel motivated to do so". Because I'm physically unable to support you in other ways like massaging your shoulders or giving you a footrub or fixing you some homemade buttermilk buscuits, creepiness factor be damned. |
Ok... To elaborate on moves a bit for Intergrated Combat Training.
2 moves from one of its type. 6 moves from another of its type. (Two of them are practically effectless) 6 moves from level up that are not the same as the above. 8 moves from the 3 types with extra moves. 8 other moves: 1 each from their respective element. Does not have access to 4 elements (Ruin being one of them) |
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And I'm succeeding. Sorta. Balancing this is kid's stuff, compared to that. I guess you're right, though. We should balance it one level at a time (though since our abilities are gonna synergize like hell, and what we get today depends on what we're allowed to get tomorrow, so we should keep an eye out for the future). Ok... Menarker, no offense, but I really think that anything that gives you access to more than 8 elements is too much, unless you sacrifice more than one level for it. And did you actually write that you meant for STAB to stack? That is... not good. And well, the goal is that in three weeks' time I'll have finished all the negotiations and all the balancing. That's why I may be doing a bit more that is necessary now, and, admittedly, neglecting the actual RP thread. |
Well, I can't think of what to do with the two different STAB bonuses. Unless you wouldn't mind that the STAB bonus converts into a bonus of a different kind like extra large crit chance or extra effects on moves that I would get STAB on. So basically, damage bonus would max out at 2.0 but extra bonuses of a different type would apply to STAB moves (or maybe just the ones with double STAB)
As for upgrades, I would be willing to give up Sweep for sure. Dunno what much else, although looking at it, I'd be willing to cut down "extra moves" due to 2 moves each instead of 3 moves each. That would take two more moves off. Anyhow, I'm not planning on getting Breeder 1 for some time, so I guess I can put the upgrades for that specific level on the side since AB says Domination and Snagging is not going to be a very present threat. |
No, I'm saying I don't think that pokebrid STAB should apply in any way at all. The ability to paradigm shift, plus your Integrated Combat Training seem sufficient. I mean, yes, level 1 pokebrids usually get STAB, but we're just basing our upgrades on what already exists. And what's paramount is to keep equality, more than remaining true to the template.
And right now, I think what you're getting is already sufficient for "equality" to remain. |
Maybe make it so Pokebrid stat counts like Slayer STAB but not stack or anything at all?
Like if the pokemon has 2 types, then someone with the standard 4 armors has 6 types for STAB? But wearing armor the same type as the pokemon won't do anything unless they REALLY need that protection from that type. Example being Ghost type wearing Ghost armor or Dragon type with Dragon Armor because otherwise, Ghost hitting Ghost or Dragon against Dragon would be bad. |
Yeah, that's might work. Or at least I think it might. If you're saying that, say, our Mamoswine pokebrid, wearing Fighting, Grass and Rock armor would have 2x STAB for Fighting, Grass, Rock and Normal moves and 1.5x STAB for Ground and Ice, yeah.
Though like I said... I think we're going beyond what you should get for one level. All the stuff you want, I think it'd work if you spread it across two... But I don't see it all fitting in one, unless you make this your "superpowered" level, and I had a feeling you wanted to save that for his Shock Trooper training. |
I think you should all just be glad that Elizabeth isn't any kind of psychic, so she can't get Domination.
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Anyhow, I'm editing my proposed set-up a bit. Spreading things out a bit hopefully, although that level 1 slayer would still be the same, since armor, it's fighting ability, and the altered stats as a pokebrid can't really be seperated. EDIT: Maybe it'd help a bit if I moved the Shock Trooper thing a level later? I know it's on the same level as the RDPA, but that means the strength gain comes a level later. EDIT: Posting my thing here so i don't keep switching back and forth. Already Earned Level 5 onwards Conditional Upgrades AB: Not to try to be any sort of pest, but do you have any suggestions for what you would find permissible for new accessories? If you don't already have some made up already? |
Renny's upgrades as I would balance them
I put my modifications and comments in red. Okay, here we go. This is pretty much it. I moved some stuff around a little, and put shock trooper classification a little later. Also nerfed ICT, but I think that was necessary. I was torn whether to make it 3/6 or 4/8, I decided on the former. Depending on what type of pokemon you choose for your shift, the latter might be acceptable. I don't know. Also, I think Paradigm shift is fine as it is. There's really no reason to change it, I think. Also also, were you at all intending for Renny to get custom accessories? I assumed you were and just hadn't mentioned them. |
Making my comments by levels.
Pokebrid 1) ...Fine. It seems out of place that once Paradigm shift is activated, it couldn't be turned off to save energy. BTW, just in case you weren't reading up the entire past discussions, it was decided that I could rearrange my stats a bit, just like your earlier request to AB saying that Slayers should be able to customize their stats a bit. The total stats allocated would still be equal to the formula AB posted. Basically going to rearrange it so Special Attack is the dump stat, but not pumping one or two stats skyhigh, but rather bringing up the lower stats so it's closer to the standards of a Slayer. Going to be tricky since even with the arranged stats combining slayer and the pokemon form, Renny is only going to be 5 point stronger than Charlotte's Arcanine, the strongest non-psuedo legendary pokemon in our group. (The pokemon form in question for pokebrid is not exactly top tier in terms of base stats.) Trainer 5) It's that scapegoat move for Umbreon I've been planning for ages. It's basically an improved version of Pierce's Trainer Action "Mock" technique. Breeder 1) Well, there hadn't been a real concensus regarding Ability Shift. I'm basically just assuming that I choose any new ability for any new pokemon and it replaced the old one and it was set in stone, although you had this idea of a pool of abilities and Drac allowing multiple abilities like Merc Pokemon do. (One of the few times where my idea was weaker than either yours or Drac) Slayer 1) Nerfing ICT like that REALLY upsets me and I will not take it as you put it now. Moving on for now so I don't fill up with rant. However, it should probably be reminded that AB said Slayer weapons started at 120, not 100. One thing that occurred to me. Slayers have an innate 6 item carrying capacity. I don't know why the upgrade sheet never mentions that. I don't know if Pokebrids have that too. (I think AB might have said that). But it's worth mentioning since Renny all this time had been at the 3 item restriction. Slayer 2) Yes, AB thought that 30 rage was a good place. Said that it "made it stand out from Sweep" which has 25 rage. Slayer 3) Once again, I'll discuss ICT later. Slayer 4) Cool. At least there won't be any confusions in the matter. Overblade 1) You moved Shock Trooper even further back... but ok. I'll accept that. I personally wouldn't mind a Custom Accessory for Renny, and maybe I would put that for Overblade 2, since that one looks a little weak. However, I thought between ICT and Shock Trooper, asking for a custom item for Renny (for himself to hold as a Pokebrid) might be a little much since I'm still in the attempt to negotiate for ICT as I proposed it. Plus that would technically be an upgrade meant for higher level Pokebrids. If you meant more custom accessories for my pokemons, then nope. I'm trying not to add too much stuff so the combination of ICT and Shock Trooper as I requested them isn't too much. I basically replaced them with the situational Anti-Domination/Snag thing. As for ICT Normal Slayers have: 1) All elements accessible. Not all at one time, but they can switch them out with a one turn delay. 2) All of their weapons have a 50% chance of a useful debuff or status condition or some other trigger (25% for Instant Death). That adds to their power because not only is the base damage of the weapon is potent, but because the debuffs makes them weaker for everyone else to take them down (If the Slayer attacked first with a Defense down weapon, then everyone else who attack with Attack types are twice as effective, like a Helping Hand) or remove the foe from combat for a bit (Flinch, Sleep) or hamper their powers (Burn, Paralsyis.) 3) Limit on how many elements they can carry, and which combination due to weapon size. That's the Slayer's limitation. Renny on the other hand: 1) Does not have all the elements. At best, he'd have to use the RDPA to gain those attack types. 2) The attacks he uses do NOT typically have good effects or good effect chance. Out of the 27 moves, not even half of them have effects that can rival what Slayers got (10% or even 30% chance of activating). And even half of those that do have special effects are situational like Facade. Some of them are even functionally effectless. An elemental version of Quick Attack? In this RP, that would simply be an attack and nothing more! Yes, I know I praised the effects of various moves such as certain Dark and Flying type moves. Those were example of some of the moves that CAN be used that would benefit from having their power set at Slayer Power instead of being useless because their base power was too low. As a whole though, most pokemons including the one I'm choosing only have a VERY small supply of moves with effects like that. 3) With the rare exception of Facade and moves like Giga Impact, all of the moves are equal in power to Slayer weapons. And not all the pokemon moves have 100% accuracy either. So, with Slayer weapons being functionally superior in all respect. The only thing that's left to mention is the diversity which is supposed to be the combined effect of BOTH the diversity of Slayers and the diversity of Pokebrids. The same thing you're trying to insist on nerfing. 4) Proposed ICT diversity enable for Renny to feasibly almost always hit for Super Effectiveness and half the time for STAB. This diversity basically trades off the more reliable effects of Slayer Weapons for more consistancy when attacking. The offensive damage isn't any greater than when a Slayer attacks with STAB (4 armors, which is pretty close to my 6) and for Super Effectiveness. The power is equal. 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I'm still shocked you suggested Renny can "switch the elements" like they were weapons. You think someone can just suddenly forget on and off their training? No in-game justification there. So seriously, don't nerf ICT's diversity of moves (which is frankly, don't nerf it at all). Especially not to equal that the number of slayer elements so it is the same which is TOTALLY UNFAIR (You're saying that Slayers should have equal amount of elements and power AND BETTER effects). The increased number of elements and the equality of damage power to the moves is pretty much the ENTIRE point of it! (Aside from any roleplay factors) On a side note, one thing did come to mind was that two of the moves were AOE. I'd be willing to nerf those moves down so it only hit single target (since Pokebrids and Slayers do not get focus). No backlash, no AOE damage reduction, no free sweep. And looking back on the moves, I'm removing one of the moves that doubles in power with every use. (There are a couple. Don't bother guessing which one) With starting power being 120, that would be broken and unsuitable. One thing does come to mind is that we can wait until some time into the next mission to discuss this, since I'll be revealing my pokebrid form then. Then I can reveal the moves in mind and discuss things further. But I'm still adamant that what I proposing is fair (or rather what you are proposing is NOT, although that's somewhat understandable since you don't have all the info, hence why I'm suggesting we wait until next mission). The most I would probably compromise is that I would divide all the elements into 2 sets, one set to get at Slayer level 1 and the other set to get at Slayer level 3. Roleplay justification being that he was still in the middle of training when he learned the second half. |
So Gem, AB said I could customize the upgrades for all my characters.
How do you want to handle that? Should I customize all their upgrades starting at level 1, or do I just pick 5 upgrades for them to get and treat them like standard, and only customize after that? How would the latter work for Sam and Elizabeth, though? They're NPCs, so they gain levels in both their classes at the same time. Do I just pick five ranks from either class, treat those as standard and customize the rest? |
Well, here's a good several ideas for some decent accessories.
- Action Amp: Activation type. Doubles the number and effects of the action for that turn. In other words, activate this accessory, then do two Actions at double their normal effect. - Environment Guard: Always Active type. Negates damage from Sandstorms, Snowstorms, and other weather effects that deal damage. There will be some custom weather. Moera's Psystorm is not one of them. Flying cars and hotdog stands are different than weather. - Holy Ring: Always Active type. Restores 5% of MaxHP per turn. - Holy Guard: Always Active type. Has a 50% chance of reducing any incoming attack by 50%. - Portal Ring: Always Active type. Stores a weapon or armor in a small dimensional pocket. Slayer can switch out gear as their Action for that turn. Daphne won't always be available to change your loadout for you. - Divine Blessing: Always Active type. Avoid the first attack that doesn't come from weather or a negative status or as the side effect of an Action. - Melting Beam: Activation type. Halves the DEF of the target before you strike. DEF is only halved for your strike and not those of any other unit. - Corruption Beam: Activation type. Halves the SDEF of the target before you strike. SDEF is only halved for your strike and not those of any other unit. I think that's a good number for now. Quote:
Anyways, I'm thinking about the post right now. And I think I'm going to make those psychic manifestations a good deal tougher than I originally thought. It's time for some real difficulty. |
Those accessories look pretty awesome. Especially interesting to see ones that are passive and thus don't require rage to activate for their effect.
Could I possibly request something to help with crit rate? Since the form I'm planning on using has a few moves that focus on crit chances (as well as decent speed). I rather have something that would effect the chances of it happening like the the ability Super Luck as opposed to something that made it stronger like Sniper. Page here if you need reference http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi...o#Critical_hit Also, can you give a sort of scaling ratio of how big a chance chance you get depending on how much speed you have? EDIT: I was kinda thinking that a suitable scale might be: 0-90 Speed: Normal (Stage 1 in the Crit Chart) 6.25% chance of crit. 91-114 Speed: Fast (Stage 2 in the Crit Chart) 12.5% chance of crit. 115+ Speed: Ace (Stage 3 in the Crit Chart) 25% chance of crit. Stage 4 and 5 reserved for those who have items or abilities or moves that improve crit rate. I kinda doubt you'll want to implement a stage any higher than 50% crit chance anyhow. Your thoughts? Or thoughts from anyone else for that matter? It was hard trying to decide where the cut-off from Fast to Ace should be. But 115 is where you get most of the really fast pokemons that specialize in speed while sacrificing other stats, although some of the lower ones like Infernape, Rapidash, and the Latios/Latias duo are also very fast, but just not quite that level... |
Didn't Geminex post a crit formula based on speed a while back?
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I don't remember him doing so, but maybe.
Keep the ideas for accessories flowing. Might as well handle their creation as one big bunch. |
I don't believe he did anything like that...
You said you were going to pump some of the existing older accessories, so maybe that's a start. (In particular maybe the infatuation and Toxic one so they are "improved" like how one of the original accessories was that the target would always fail their saving throw. Maybe turn Infatution into that proposed Love status.) Something that boosts crit (would be awesome if it was Always active even if it's just one stage boost), something that mimics White Herb (cure stat losses and stuff like that), heck one that mimic Haze would be awesome although probably overpowered on bosses... Just throwing ideas here. BTW, I can't seem to find some of your extra accessories that you submitted before, such as the Rage Tank and the one that causes the slayer to do OMGWTF explosion like damage but caused him to faint. BTW, a thought came to mind. Your upgrade sheet says that RDPA acts like Paradigm Shift except it doesn't costs rage. Does that mean it boosts stats just like Paradigm shift does? Would it stack with PS? |
Hmmm...
Maybe an activation type that has a chance of countering every attack done on the user that turn? Or an always active type that basically gives the Slayer the Simple ability. |
Well, there is your big idea AB. Just scroll down the ability page and choose ones you think would be appropriate to accessorize.
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ability Mold Breaker in particular would allow it to fight any foe regardless of what ability it has (good for dealing with Merc foes) Anyhow, I'm off to work. See you all later! |
Also, AB, I notice that Wilhelmina is the only Sniper that doesn't have a Sniper Skill.
I mean, Evangaleen, Callisto and Whitney all have Sniper Skills, but Wilhelmina doesn't. What's up with that? PS: HEY BARD CLEAN OUT YOUR INBOX. |
Ok, first, Drac:
Yah, 5 standard ranks from either class, the rest is customizable. What AB said. In regards to the accessories: I think everything except for the Action Amp is alright. I'd just forget about the action Amp, though. Double actions at double effect? That's the equivalent of 4 actions, instead of one, for 30 rage. That's... rather a lot. And I guess Menarker's speed scale works. But... I am uncertain. It's the fact that it rises so quickly after 90 that makes me nervous. I mean come on, 25 speed makes the difference between a 6.25% crit rate and a 25% crit rate? I'm not buying that. I'm thinking it should do one of two things: Either, it should be a more linear progression (as I, contrary to what you may believe, actually proposed ages ago, but I'm not going back to look) or, and I actually prefer this one: We make it digital, like the old speed was. In the games it didn't matter how much you had, it just mattered whether or not yours was higher than your opponent's. If you asked me, my proposal would be to make the base crit chance 10%, holding a crit item or using a crit-improved move gives you another 10% to the base chance, and attacking an opponent with lower speed than you, triples your base chance. It's faithful to the game, and it's, again, simpler. Buuuut... ICT. Wow. You really like that, huh? Quote:
Look, have you ever actually explained how you want ICT to work in-game? I though it was simply Renny using Slayer weapons to improve his own attacks, rather than attack with them independently. And even if that isn't the case, we can make up some bullshit about how he gets "elemental amplifiers" instead of weapons. It's easily justifiable. And I'm not going to reply to your post point-by-point. But I think you're really, really overestimating the power of status effects in this game. I mean come on, how long does an opponent usually survive? Two attacks? Three? Add to that sig-techs, and the fact that we frequently outnumber and overpower our foes (what with all the nice buffs and amplifiers), and we pretty much sweep the entire enemy side every second turn. Not to mention that, once a Slayer has used a super-effective attack (which is the only way he inflicts a guaranteed status effect), the opponent will usually be below one third health. They usually get finished off by a pokemon's move. So really, I'd almost say that Slayer Weapon effects are negligible, since, like I said, enemies don't survive for long enough to get seriously inconvenienced. Not utterly irrelevant, but since you get moves with their own interesting effects (and, y'know, you get all the moves of one element, rather than just one move with one effect), I think it balances out. Hell, I'd even go as far as to say that, in regards to "additional" effects, Renny might be better off, depending on what moves he'd actually get. But that's really not very important. Slayers aren't disruptors. Their role isn't to cause status effects. Their role it to deal tons and tons of damage. They are capable of doing so because they have good attack stats, they have ways of buffing themselves, they have double stab, they have strong attacks. And already a pretty good variety of attacks. They are DPS, pretty much. Anything that lets them fulfill their primary role more effectively (especially to the magnitude you're proposing) is far more valuable than the ability to cause status effects. So yeah. 4/8 is the most I'll go (and even that's not likely). Because you're really not sacrificing all that much, and asking for one hell of a lot. You said it yourself: Quote:
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