The Dreadful -- Chapter 3
 

Page 62!

I suppose the art-shift is as good a time as any to start a new "chapter".

This thread will cover pages 62 to approximately page 85.

To be honest, writing the comic as if it were divided into chapters isn't something that's working too well with my writing style. I don't really like planning them this way either :P

Breaking them up is useful for organizational purposes, however, and I think it will keep the threads more manageable for the purposes of the site :)

So here we go! "Chapter Three" begins!

I like Lamborghinis :D

Comfortably numb? Like... morphine? I figure it was more like a novacaine like numbness, or like when your feet are asleep or something. I've never been shocked but I know in some games that it causes temporary paralysis (I need no science! I have video games!)

ohh.. i didn't know it was a song title :P

Did Kit just oh-so-subtly call Liz fat? Or was that just a moment of awkward depth?

I'd try to shed some light on it, but I have absolutely NO idea where you're pulling Kit calling Liz "fat" from...

Um... well... the new art style is... um...

Well, it'll take some time for me to get used to.

Boozloaf seems to be rather unchanged.

Hah. I just got that. "It isn't over till the fat lady sings". You know that phrase?

Well... ever gunfight is a song all itself. And Liz sang last, so to speak.

Two things.

First...What? Lips? In your The Dreadful? What is this I don't even

Second...Y U NO PINK FLOYD?

Ohhh.. hmm.. that's a bit of a stretch, but i guess it works :)


EDIT: I hope eventually people will get over the "lips" thing... :P I know it's kinda different but I mean... sheesh.. It's just gonna be this way from now on.

Maybe it's just the second panel that gets me.

I remember when I dubbed them porno lips and Matt didn't take kindly to it. Good times.

They don't stand out as much on an actual page with dialogue as they did on the concept art Matt posted. My only real issue is that the shift is sudden, just bam, there. To be fair, how else would anyone expect it to happen? That's right, not at all, so no difference. And we'll get used to it, I'm sure.

Originally I was going to set up the art-shift with a joke. Kit was going to recover slightly from the lightning-potion and Boozloaf was going to say "You look better. Almost like a whole new person." and Kit was going to say "Yeah, I feel different somehow..."

But I felt that was just a waste of a page, and since the shift happened RIGHT after Erin's death, it could be the start of a new chapter. That seemed like enough of a break to me.

Hmm. First negative thing I've ever had to say about the comic. The new art style... not diggin' it.

Granted, it's not my comic, and I'll probably keep watching for a while, but some of the style seems to have lost its charm.

And here I had this wild idea that the story/characters were decent enough to overcome LIPS.

It's only been a page...

I still am stunned that this would be so problematic for some people. Regardless, I'm not going to go back to the old way because this new way is better. *puts foot down*

To be honest, it's less about the lips, more about the horns. To me, Kit looks like she has a massive set of bald spots now. Kinda weird.

Well, the story is about to pick up so hopefully you'll be able to tolerate the art for just a bit longer. It might pay off.

Hmm. We'll see.

Oh, that reminds me. When's HIKYM comin back? >.> [/troll]

Well, not to sound like a perv... but what really got me was the second panel, it kind of looked like something from a prono.

Also I agree, the horns look a bit... off...

*edit* it'll likely grow on me, just threw me off a bit at first. I had gotten too used to the manga style of kit.

Eh, I'll adjust. As you say, I'm here for the world and the story. It's none of my business if Kit likes Botox. :)

Really the horns bug me more than the lips. I'll deal though.

I'm fine with the lips. They do make her look a lot older and more mature (which is at odds with her overall "kiddish" personality so far) but my main point of contention is the horns, or rather, how they affect her hair.

Old art style, they didn't. It was like she was wearing them overtop of the hair. Admittedly, the new style is more realistic. But if you look at the comparison between old and new, the fact that the hair below the horns is suddenly missing makes it look like she shaved that part directly off. It creates a weird pseudo-punk look that I'm not sure I'm a fan of.

The change in art styles between, say, Page 49 and Page 62 is particularly striking because less than 5 minutes have passed in-comic (I estimate), but Kit looks like she's aged at least a decade between her lips and bald spots.

So, to summarize/clarify, I am totally fine with the new art style, but I feel that it seems out-of-place at this particular point in the story. She looks like a different character now. To use Firefly characters as an example, I read Page 49 Kit as Kaylee, and I read Page 62 Kit as Zoe. It just feels a little uncomfortable.

EDIT: And yes, that was my reasoning for the "fat" comment. It's not over till the fat lady sings, and if every gunfight is like a song in itself, then Liz just "sang", and now it's over. So the fat lady sang to end it. Subtle.

...That line still feels a little odd for Kit to be saying, though...?

I thought it was a guest artist at first until I saw that Boozloaf looks the same. It's not bad, she looks more feminine now, but the horns are now a tad odd to me.

I was trying to imply that Kit is such a pro w/ gunfights that she can tell what happens and she doesn't even have to see it. Rate of fire + different guns + a combatant she knows (Liz) = Kit's deduction.

There will be more on that, and her "every gunfight is like a song all itself" quote later (that's the plan anyway).

What caused the art shift?

A wizard did it.

It's as good a canonical answer as any.

Maybe it's just me, but when the majority are saying they don't like it and the best thing the minority can say is "I'll adjust I guess," it's probably worth it to re-examine whether or not "it's better".

I'm not trying to dog on you or anything, I'm just telling you which way the wind's blowing. In all things, people are getting tired of 'same'. The new Catwoman and Red Hood comics and the outcry they generated should give you a clue. Google it.

Anyway, like you give a crap about my opinion, but for my money Kit looked a lot better before she got her lip-puff-and-horn-lift treatments. She looked unique before. Now she looks more 'typical'.

Whoa, whoa, whoa... little harsh there, LoF. To be honest, from what I can tell, he DOES care about our opinions to an extent. Matt is very active in the forum in regard to his comic works, and regularly asks for input regarding various things. The fact that he does these things and has various forum lurkers helping him on this or that aspect of his comic gives me the impression that he does value the opinions of his readers.

That said, it seems he does want to move away from the manga-ish art style of his previous posts. A pity, IMHO, but then I'm a huge fan of that particular art style. However, an artist will typically do what pleases them, the opinions of others is an afterthought. Were this not the case, we'd have no Picassos.

I care about opinions to an extent, but this is one of those things where I'm going with my gut on. I suppose if this wasn't a free comic I'd be more likely to listen to everyone, but it's still hard to say. After all, is this really the "majority"? I have had a number of other people say they really like it, including some people who I highly respect on an artistic level, they just haven't voiced an opinion on this forum. I wish they would, but what're you gonna do?

I want to do it this way for more than just "what's popular". The manga style was no longer me. I don't like anime anymore, and I don't read manga like I used to. I don't think I should be drawing in a style I'm not that into.

Anyway, this is the last time I'm going to address any criticisms about the art shift. Feel free to argue about it amongst yourselves tho. I'm just tired of trying to sell it to people who aren't buying it, and I don't feel I need to justify it over and over again. It's this way from now on. If you don't like the art and don't wanna read the comic because of it, I'm afraid you'll just have to move on. A pity, but that's how it is.

Re: Manga style:

... that was inspired by manga? *shrugs*
I mean, I can kinda see it, but it was YOUR style, as far as I'm concerned.

But I like this too! =D

Thanks :)

I don't like being so dismissive about what fans think. After all, this comic was originally conceived with the much appreciated help of many current NPFers. It's just this is different. This new art style is MY thing and I'm very passionate about it.

When I originally came up with the idea to shift the style I wasn't sure. I thought I'd see what people thought, but the more I did it the more I really took to it, almost like this was how I was meant to draw it all along.

I was surprised how fast I was able to shift. Someone said earlier that they thought it was a new artist working on it? That's a pretty good compliment really.

I guess I'm going out of my way to try to "sell it" again.. I said I wouldn't do that :P

It's ok. Everybody's a critic.

In that vein, maybe take the horn size down a little? When it was magna style the horns being big worked, here not so much. Even allowing for foreshadowing they look as big as Boozeloaf's in panel 1. And in an attempt to kill a few dozen catgirls I'll point out that in every mammalian species with horns the females have much smaller horns than the males (if they have any at all). So unless the guys of her species are packing the Dodge Ram curls, they are a bit much. I would think her horns being about the same size as her eyes would be more balanced.

Speaking of her eyes - you're either doing a western animation style or you aren't and her eyes are still anime-ishly big and styled. Not as big as they were, but big enough to throw the face balance off. Take them down a hair, open they should be about as big as when she was squinting in the last panel. Add the nictating membrane details on the closeups. You started doing that panel 4 but left it down to a dot.

The lips are fine, but the main reason they are floating is there is no cheekbone definition and nose definition remains as minimal as ever. This isn't a concern on distance poses (panel 3) but close ups are bothersome. Shading would help this problem enormously, but I don't know how to solve it in the 2 tone format.

Panel 4 is the best panel of 62 mainly because it addresses most of these issues. Eyes are smaller because of the squint, nose definition is the strongest in that drawing and the lips as a result feel connected to the face and unforced.

What are those black stripes on her face? I'm still wondering that and after the shift it bothers me more.

Overall I like what you are doing though, and I hope you take this post as intended, encouragement to continue in the direction you want to go and some ideas on how to do that.

Well I'm on page 75 right now so it might be a little too late to go about dissecting page 62 to this degree :P I'll take it all into consideration though? Maybe?....*runs*

I'm pretty settled in with the style now, and have been working out whatever kinks there are in it on my own.

The black stripes on her face are ..uhh.. I dunno. Tattoos? Birthmarks? Naruto-esque Whisker Thingies?

Just a thought, but perhaps most of the reason I find the art shift odd (besides lips) is that it seems to take Kit from perhaps late teens in appearance (and mannerisms) all the way through to at least mid-twenties, and it's kind of hard to deal with at first.

Yeah, I agree with the above. Kit seems much too mature now. I pictured her as being quite little, not with womanly bust and such.

I do like the faces you're doing now, however.

I understand the need for artistic growth, but honestly, I personally liked the old style better. It seemed quite fitting.

Perhaps I'll grow accustomed, though. Dunno.

The specific issues present in those is two-fold.

1. They aren't particularly well-written. At least, the Red Hood isn't based on my sources.

2. The turned female characters into porn star props meant as nothing more than wankfodder for an intended fanbase of horny teenagers. This is problematic both because it is sexist, but also because it's fucking stupid and ruins the comic's enjoyability for those of us who don't want that.

The problem with those is not, "This art looks all the same!" After all, Speroni was doing the anime/manga art style. While he certainly made it his own, it was just as much "More of the same" as this is visually. He does a good job of making his own style stand out here, and while I was fond of the original art style, they're both great in their own ways.

I just registered today, to say that I liked the old art style better.

Also, the horns don't seem that much bigger to me. They're just in front of the hair now, and the face is a bit thinner.

the liiiiips

Every second of every panel is like being punched in the balls for all of eternity.

...but no, anyway, I'll get used to it. I think it's just a little jarring, like almost every art shift in every comic ever. I had a mental picture of Kit looking like she could reasonably pass as a high schooler (which is kind of a easten/western style thing), and now she looks quite a bit older.

I do think the horns look better in the last panel than in the others, though, where they look a little smaller and broader.

More animes Matt is completely ripping off! =P

Though even before the art shift, they immediately brought Ah My Goddess to my mind.

http://www.usaanime.us/HeroTourney/Pics/Belldandy.jpg

...Maybe the 'new look' is just Kat's reaction to alcohol?

It's not an unprecedented thing to happen in comics!

I'll just, like, cross my fingers on that one I guess.

Yeah, it takes getting used to, but not bad. The way Kit stands up there so abruptly in the second to last panel, kind of defiantly, yeah, that seems like a mannerism of the Kit we know and love alright, so to me this is still the same comic despite the style change.

I applaud you, Mr. Speroni. Art is about gut feelings and doing what works for you. It's your work after all, you should enjoy it. :D

Thanks :)

I hope that the more I enjoy it the better I can make it and the more enjoyable it will be for everyone to read. I have to be careful I'm not 100% self-indulgent though. However, you can't listen to everyone all the time, you have to be you once in awhile. It's tricky to decide what to do sometimes.

true enough. Take it as a compliment that some people ARE complaining about the style change. That in itself is total praise to your work (The Dreadful overall, not just the art) and a testmanent to how much they enjoy this comic if they feel that strongly about it. :P

Page 63!

Liz has a theory that Kit is not too keen on hearing, but why is she drawing this conclusion?

This is just a joke, btw...
 

Speaking of style changes, I think I should change The Judge from her normal realistic look to a really anime look. Kind of the reverse of what I did with Kit and Liz. I mean, it makes sense, right?

Something like this:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/phot...BtGNpVqGDmU%3D


Link if image won't display

^^^ The best.

You should use that for a red ninja suit joke.

Have her all SD Anime, but then the next day make her normal and have someone reference the art shift and have her say "No I didn't" then when they go back you have replaced the previous comic with her actual look.

You're fired.

I still miss the good old days where Liz had no mouth, merely a lit cigarette proboscis, but she has a nice redesign.

It kinda still feels weird to see Kit doing her wide-eyed, over-the-top surprise expressions with realism mode on, but the fact that the character's personality remained constant does help the art style transition somewhat.

I disagree, and suggest a raise for Mr. Speroni, increasing his current pay for this project by 1.5x its previous.

Liz is now exactly how she should look for the character. Her new look is superior to the old one in every possible way. I suppose I can see the debate continuing for Kit, but it shouldn't for Liz. She looks pretty much how I pictured her in my head, and I should have drawn her this way (or at least in an anime-equivalent of this way) from the start. Liz isn't a "cute" character and so the old look never quite fit her for me.

Though, a lot of this reasoning is based on stuff that I know that no one else does, so it might not make total sense yet.

1.5 x 0 = 0!

http://i52.tinypic.com/2czq6mf.jpg

Except the Joker didn't have to take into account the "Duurr??" that makes up a good portion of the interweb.

There seems to be no joke or story element that is perfectly clear to everyone. No matter how dumbed down it is. You could have a panel with a sign that says "Cow" on it next to a cow and someone would be "HUH?!"

Fuck that guy.

Can't recognize a cow, what an asshole.

You have to hone your "Derdar" as an artist/writer. It's tricky sometimes to tell what is legitimately confusing and what is just confusing because the person commenting is being an idiot, or just bullheaded for no intelligent reason. You want to get it right, but you can't listen to everyone's advice.

That's why you need to have a handful of "go to" people. Preferably people who aren't morons. Friends aren't always the best choice. If you have a friend who sits through Dark Knight and doesn't realize Batman is Bruce Wayne till the very end (if at all), you probably shouldn't go to them for creative help.

Liz looks good/better, kit does look alot better standing up.

Pet peeve of mine though, the one sided lip raise that kit does really makes me rage.

No idea why that would make you rage.
 

This is now her permanent expression.

Neither do I, but it does.

Hey, there's this movie director who likes to keep changing his movies.

I doubt you're being serious about that...but if there actually is anyone out there who genuinely compares me with Lucas and The Dreadful to Star Wars they really need to reconsider their perspective on this art shift and move on with their lives.

If The Dreadful ever got to the level Star Wars is I wouldn't mess with it. However, it's a very very small comic on a website I don't own. I do the comic for free and I've only changed it once. My change also didn't force you to pay 40-50$ for a new set of movies (oh wait, Lucas didn't either)...

The Dreadful is still more or less mine to do with what I want. Maybe one of these days it'll get to the level of Star Wars and be everyone's, but it's far from that point.

Though personally I think Lucas has the right to mess with Star Wars as much as he wants. It's his movie. He's not forcing anyone buy it. I own two versions of Star Wars. The original movies on VHS, and the special editions on DVD, and that's good enough for me. If I were him I wouldn't mess with it, because I feel that it's fine as it is, but I'm not him. If he feels these changes make Star Wars more like his vision, then I guess he should change it. However if he's just making these changes to make money....eh...

I do think I'm gonna like Liz's new look.

She looks very, very tired, which suits her character just fine.

I like the new look. <3

I wonder, though: Is HIKYM also going to be changed to the new art style?

...If it ever gets updated again? <_<

I'm not sure what HIKYM has to do with that, since it has a different art style anyway. I hope there's no art shift in HIKYM, personally. It already ran long enough and I think is supposed to end some time. I'd prefer consistency in that case. I highly doubt Dreadful's art shift will affect HIKYM (at least not in a major way), same artist or not.

What about the writers (other than Lucas), actors who ad-libbed some of the most famous and loved lines ("I love you!" "I know."), the director (not Lucas!), etc?

It's only his movie by copyright law, not by right of creation.

Not that this has anything to do with the Dreadful, which IS yours through and through.

Even less so because you're not rewriting or altering old comics. Just producing new ones in a new way. This would be closer to someone complaining about Episode 1 using CGI instead of the models and physical props of Episodes 3-4.

Wow, Liz looks great in the new style.

I have to admit Kit feels a bit off but it's mainly because she suddenly seems a bit older. I'm finding that's only in some panels though, so probably just from settling into a new style?

HIKYM already pretty much IS in this style. It's just in color. The reason why I was able to switch styles so smoothly w/ The Dreadful is because of HIKYM.

Essentially I'm just drawing The Dreadful how I draw HIKYM. I mean, look at the last page of HIKYM. Look at Fang Lin. SHE HAS LIPS HOLY SHIT.

So...yes, HIKYM will be drawn in this style (but since it already was, that's kinda silly for me to say). The only reason the two styles may look slightly different is because HIKYM is in color and because I have developed artistically since my last page of it. The Dreadful is drawn in the HIKYM style, I'm just better at it now. The Dreadful being in black and white also changes the aesthetic a lot, so it looks more different than it actually is. Also the fact I'm writing The Dreadful and in total control of the page layouts could make it "feel" different (like all those silhouettes for instance). HIKYM has some more anime-effects, like speed-lines and whatnot, but the way I draw the characters is pretty much the same.


Yeah that's true... I was mostly thinking of it being his in terms of his story and copyright stuff.

If he owns it, I think he can change it if he wants. I think if people quit buying it then he'd stop. But that's not the case!


I've been thinking of doing a wallpaper of Liz, so I might do something sorta like that :)

For reference folks, here's a more recent color image by Matt that he did on commission for me.

Attachment 7817

Color makes a real difference, but I imagine it is a real time eater as well.

It depends. Coloring can sometimes make things easier in the drawing because it covers up a lot of stuff and can allow for some short-cuts. Usually when I have to color a page I tend to rush the drawing more because I don't want to spend forever on a single page. I try to go fast enough on both so I can get the page done in a day or a day and a half.

That picture up there was done relatively speedy, but it was in this "new" stye. In fact, many of my colored pictures are. Like the Julia Chang picture or the "Lara Croft" picture, etc. (See my DA page for reference).

I actually prefer The Dreadful in the black and white art. I think the line-work looks better. If I ever decide to color it I'd probably do something more flat, kinda grainy and washed out. That would be a lot of work though, especially since unlike HIKYM I'm writing The Dreadful (writing takes up a lot of time sometimes).

Pages 64 and 65

Another double-sized update! What's all this about "money" anyway?

Like the new style a little better already. The only thing I'll never be able to put behind me is mouthless Liz.

Mouthless Liz, I love you, I will hold the pages you appear in close to my heart, always.

Maybe I will just photoshop the mouth away on a few pages and see how weird it looks with the new art...

Man, it's always about a secret money hoard, isn't it?

The Dreadful wasn't inspired by Red Dead Redemption, but as I kept thinking more and more about the story I felt I wanted to make it feel kinda like Grand Theft Auto. Where everyone's bad/corrupt and it's generally always about the money. Kind of ironic I guess :D

I guess Boozloaf is the exception. The one pillar of purity...

Well hells yeah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXldafIl5DQ

It's a western ;P

Except he works for Jeanne.
Until Kit manages to convince him to give up his bad ways, and become an actual Moomon.

#spoilingstories #since1990 #yesiknowimnotontwitter #dontcare

The new style is starting to look a bit better now. I guess I'm getting used to it, but I guess there are other factors to. Kit's hat makes the horns a bit less pronounced as well.

I did prefer the old style better, but you can't please everyone.

I guess it was how the look blended with the occasional light-hearted mood, and really made the eyes stand out or something.

Page 66!

Cliffhanger page! What is it that they see?.....