I must agree with PhoenixFlame on this one. With consoles becoming frighteningly close to PCs, it has the potential to harm the gaming market because consoles are losing sight of what they should be: pure gaming. By adding in all the "ooh shiney!" bells and whistles you create unneccecary complication (like incompatibilities, hacking, viruses, "we'll patch it later" developers, etc). By creating unneccecary complication, you scare away potential gamers. By scaring away potential gamers, the gaming market suffers.

And SWK, what PC games have you been playing and looking at?

There are advancements being made all the time on the PC, though they're more subtle than the time in which "PC games had trouble selling themselves" seeing how all forms of gaming have established themselves with a solid fanbase and overcame the big obstacles it took to get there. You can't expect there to be huge leaps and bounds at a time in the PC area than you do with consoles, because the technology gradually increases, not like consoles leap, stagnate, leap, stagnate. You can't expect something like ragdoll physics to develop overnight with the release of a new console, it has to be developed and done right over time on the PC, then by the time a new console is ready to come out, there are new game mechanics passed on that will justify the new hardware.

It's hard to justify your "no effort" claim when you look at titles like Half-Life 2 and The Elder Scrolls III - IV. After 5 years of development, HL2 has pushed itself into position as the best FPS in many areas. With it came many new things, a revamped game engine, new physics, animations, and even rethinking how a FPS story is told. The Elder Scrolls III set the standard for open ended gameplay and massive RPG scale. The Elder Scrolls IV (set to come out Holiday '05 for PC and Xbox 360) is due to take it even further. Looking at both the games, that brings up the mod community, an invaluable tool for extending a game's life, something consoles have yet to develop. Sure there's crap games out there, but as with console games, there's something for everyone

I agree with this to a point. True, complex and versatile consoles are going to be more likely to have problems, but in this case I think the "risks" outweigh any complications. How many people on this forum bought a PS2/XBOX and have never used its DVD capability? I know for some parents it was a major selling point. Look at the Gamecube and its sales. Love it or hate, the system is a "pure gaming console." The cube never took off, and now has become a very expensive paper weight for me. Personally, I say spice 'em up.........

Woah woah woah, back up a minute. I wasn't being sarcastic. I was serious, I liked what you said (rough translation)

"Well, I don't like PCs, the games are pretty much shit, and they need to become non-gaming units, that way it benefits them in the long run."

You claimed you hated a certain console, said how the games suck, and then said how it could improve in a rational way. That was impressive, and I wasn't sarcastic, I didn't even know it was possible to insult a console as per your preference then say "Well if it died it would be better, here's why."

I'm sorry, but this is the major thing... I could care less about game mechanics. A good game for me, is one that has a decent storyline/plot & decent play controls. I could care less if a game is pushing the very fabric of space-time & breaking the barriers of technology. In other words, I want something that draws me in, and I enjoy playing. The PC market, even moreso than the console market, seems to be going for the whiz-bang feature more often than not.

I used to buy more titles than I do now, but at this point, I can generally tell from reading the box & checking out a few reviews, whether I'll like a game or not. Plus, I'm in a dial-up only area, so no Multi-Player for me (not that I could fit it in if I wanted too), and even if they were an option I doubt I'd get one. There's something about an overly used & re-used concept that I just don't find all that compelling.

Oh & sorry to go off on you MG. I just assumed you were sarcastic. My bad.

SWK
- Of course, I just bought Metal Slug 4/5 & love it to bits (well mostly), so my opinion doesn't count for much. Well, I suppose I wouldn't mind it if the levels were a bit longer, had a tendency to have more vehicles (so if you lose one, you get a second bite at the apple) & collected weapons had more ammo (like Contra). But other than that, I love it.

John Carmack once said:
"Story in a game is like story in a porn: It's expected to be there, but it's not that important"

I was assuming technology was relevant seeing how advancements in that area allow players to become more immersed in the storyline/plot than ever before. I acknowlege that a great storyline/plot can even make Interactive Fiction like Zork attractive to some in this day and age (hell, I'm working through Wishbringer myself), but if you can deliver the same story in real time giving you a level of control more than "pick up key and put key in box" and letting you see more than "you stand atop a hill, there is a post office to the west, the door is closed." ... most will chose it over an all-text version. Sometimes you just want to explore every inch of the island instead of being confined to the beach. Sometimes you just want to try to assassinate the "invincible" king. Sometimes you just want to see how much you have to harass a guard until he chases you down the hall. You just can't do that with older games.

With more advanced gaming platforms we gain access to more storyline and plot devices than before. It's still possible to tell a fantastic story in a game on older devices, but the possibilites can be so much more, with dynamic content, branching storylines (replay value anyone?), and an increasingly epic scope of the story told on the newest technologies.

But what developers are doing that? Pushing the envelope and not staying in one spot. Pushing the SNES, PSX, or the PS2 for all it's worth? I still think that people can make a game on older systems that are different and work within the limitations to tell something new.

But a belief that the PS3 is going to push the branch further? I doubt it. Stockholders along with publishers have to get their money somehow. And with the licensing being so high on the consoles when they first come out, someone like Atlus won't be coming out with a game that advances to new genres.

You can only take things so far. There's only so many genres, there's only so much potential in a generation of hardware to tell different playable stories. To cover new material, you have to be able to move deeper, include more characters, tie in more motives, events, etc. Only so many tales can be told from an isolated one-horse town. Throw in a bandit camp, supply lines from different towns, visitors, natural disasters and you have more possibilites that something interesting might develop. To obtain more materials with which a story could be developed requires an advance in technology. You just can't tell an author to write 20 best-selling novels, each with a completely different plot, each in 100 pages or less.

With newer games comes an increasing amount of freedom. That very freedom can create bits and pieces of story that add to the experience as a whole. For example, The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion will have all NPCs run a 24-hour variable goal schedule that can affect your gameplay and the storyline as a whole. If your assassination target has a fascination with fishing and carpentry, you might have to go check out the nearby streams (dealing with wildlife as needed) and not find him. After getting back and resting from a nasty encounter with a bear you go by a building you caused a fire in two days ago only to find him working there. Then you would have to deal with how to kill him. Can't do it in broad daylight while he's working (too many potential witnesses), so you might have to hang around and follow him home when it starts to get dark. It could have gone down at the stream, It could have gone down in a dark alleyway, all of the events before the plot event is fufilled becomes a little extra bit you take away as your story. Sure it could happen in any other game on most platforms, but including a similar feature across multiple towns with dozens of residents... that sort of thing takes new technology.

I don't think that this console cycle will be the big one. I'm thinking the next one.

http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?t=10322

But, in this console cycle, I'm betting on PS3/Revolution. The PS3 will attract the people who want the big games, with the big graphics, while the Revolution will attract the nostalgic people, while introducing the next versions of the games we all know and love. (SSBM, anyone?)

I'm getting a Revolutin. Eventualy.
I love Nintendo because it has so many exclusive games. Honestly, the only reason Nintendo really sells is because you can't get your Mario/Zelda/Kirby/Pokemon/Earthbound/Pikmin/Donkey Kong/Metroid/Fire Emblem fix anywhere else.
Of course, thats also why I continue to shell out cash for Nintendo.
Plus, every time I see a picture of the Revolution I drool. And I know you all do too. Right? Right?
VIVA LA REVOLUTION!