Flawed genius
 

I've recently been playing Sonic 3, for the obvious reason that it's still a very fun game.
But something struck me just moments ago as I was zipping through Dr.Robotnik's multiple bases, defenses and legions of robots.

The Doc has made a most fatal error in all his defences.

Why the hell did he think it wise to include hundreds of holes, tubes and lifts that are all suspiciously hedgehog sized. They also move you effeciently closer to his central base.
For a man who can build thousands of robots, giant spaceships and an infinite mount of useless contraptions he seems to have forgotten the use of a front door key.

Or at least he should place some trip mines in those damn tubes. Sonic and Tails would explode into a bloody pulp of fur and spikes quicker than you could say 'Shadow sucks'.

How many other so called arch-nemesis's of the gaming world have such flawed genius as Robotnik?

In all honesty, I think the space pirates from Metroid have a lot of kinks in their system. Although this shows more in Prime I still think that, with all of their technology and the fact that they've gotten metroids MULTIPLE times in Metroid history, it seems pretty strange that they haven't even CAPTURED Samus yet.

Although I guess that just says something about Samus and how versatile the Power Suit can be.

Well, this pretty much goes for any game that has a single path you need to take through it. I think there will be a decrease in this kind of game, and how obvious and unrealistic it is as time goes on, but it will never completly dissapear.

MegaMan Classic Series.

I dunno if Wily's putting putting some sort of fortress-locking mechanism on his Robot Masters, but however beating all eight of them allows you access to his fortress, he really needs to rethink that.

Why doesn't he just have all his Robot Masters GANG THE FUCK UP on MegaMan? It doesn't even have to be just eight either; he could send an army of Robot Masters right at him to get the job done.

Seeing as MegaMan has proven himself a dire threat to Wily's schemes, why doesn't he just go over to whereever he is and nuke him off the face of the planet? Of course, the same can be said of Robotnik as well, and pretty much any evil video game scientist.

Not really. How could they capture her? Obviously, they can't try to use any sort of computer locking mechanism, or anything computerized, for that matter, so high technology is pretty much out. Mechanical locks can be blown apart, frozen, melted, etc, so no dice there. They could try to just drop a bunch of big metallic blocks on all sides of her, but the woman has more destructive power than God. The only real option is trying to KO her and then get the suit off. We've seen how well direct confrontation goes for them.

Samus getting through their security was explained very well in Metroid Prime: They just can't build anything she can't get into. The level of technology she possesses is so far above their's, it's basically magic.

I like the way Metroid: The Third Derivative (a comic) handled the matter of Samus' superior technology: http://www.bobandgeorge.com/Subcomic...Metroid413.png

The same thing pretty much goes for Sonic: It's not like Eggman intentionally builds hedgehog-sized holes in his bases; it's that Sonic busts through just about everything. He'll get into the piping, run on places that aren't designed for running, clear a thirty foot chasm, and whatever else is necessary. You just can't keep him out: He'll slip through any hole, clear any gap, grab any hand hold and smash any wall. Besides that, Sonic usually isn't infiltrating Eggman's bases. The zones generally range from tropical wilderness to factories. You only really see Eggman's base when you're getting to the end of the games.

I thought about this in the Prince Of Persia series for PS2. I mean, the world is essentialy lost to time:

Sands of Time spewing around and demolishing and decaying everything in your path - but there always manages to be some sort of han-hold leading to a pole which leads to a platform which lets you continue on to the rest of your journey. Water was somehow always there for you after a Dahaka chase, while the older version of the Time Palace was somehow without a lack of handholds.

And then theres also the fact that it wouldn't be fun to play if there wasn't a way to beat the game. It happens much more in old games, which didn't focus as much about plot and realisticness, as much as having a good time.

THe funniest thing I remember was this comic from dueling analogs or something where they point out, rightly so, that the Space Pirates, in their ZEAL for reverse engineering Aran/Chozo weaponry have made a great many of the doors to their own SHIP and areas openable by the ice beam and the other beam weapons.

The only problem is, they don't actually have Ice Pirates (wasn't there a movie under that name?) until near the end of the game, so how the heck were they supposed to get around their ship? You could walk in, blast some Pirates, then go through a door and they couldn't follow you at all.

Technically, for Megaman and Sonic levels, it was BECAUSE Wily and Eggman wanted Sonic in that they put in things that Megaman could use. They are brilliant, geniuses in most uses of the word, and when they design a diabolical deathtrap run, they want to see it used.

Of course, ONLY Sonic and ONLY Megaman can navigate them, because they were made especially with them in mind. It's like a super powered version of the obstacle course the camp instructors build every year. They expect you to get through it, but to have as difficult time as possible so as to stroke their ego.

The only other input I have on this, is that Sonic is probably taking a backdoor route, as the 2D dimension we see while playing is only one path through Eggman's castle/dungeon, and for all we know the reason why there are pipes is because thats how Eggman's plumbing gets anywhere.

You know, for the same reason, you would think that Bowser would start handing out those old WW1 German helmets to his Koopas. How many times does he have to see it before he realizes Mario's main weapon is his jumping?

Talking about Bowser, he was bad in Super Mario World. Let's face it, despite the levels he placed between his castle and his enemy he still left Mario two entrances (front door and back door) and both were left unlocked. On top of this, the final battle happens while he is in his Koopa Clown flying above Mario at a height that Mario cannot jump on top of his head. Despite this clear tactical advantage as he can also rain down little lava flames from the sky AND being able to pound the ground with his vehicle, round after round he throws the wind-up enemies down at Mario, only to have them thrown right back at him to knock Bowser out enough to defeat him.

He did try that out in Paper Mario. Too bad Mario had the Hammer in that game. ;o

And another thing, how come Megaman can be shot several times by enemies and bosses and live, yet be killed by a small spike in the foot? And why doesn't Wily exploit this weakness more often?

I have been playing Megaman 1-3 these last few days, and I have pondered the exact same thing.

I was even expecting Needle man to be able to one hit kill me or something. I suppose there's the danger that if he made a Spike Man, it could go rogue and destroy every other bot and Wily couldn't control it, and if he put spikes in the boss room, the Boss himself might die from the spikes.

They really aren't that smart, them bosses, and this is not fixed for Thousands of years, right up to Megaman Battle Network.

As for why these cripple Megaman so, is probably that impalation is too graphic for the kiddies, or is a damage that would impair Megaman's abilities to an extent that would make the rest of the level impossible.

You get a spear through your legs? Can't jump, so you can't make that next gap or over that one obstacle.

Spear through your head? Can't see!

They obviously must bust through whatever shielding Megaman has, as Needles, Ninja stars, Energy Bolts, pure electricity, giant rocks, magnets, and even snakes are burnt up by it.

The real question, of course, is why Megaman can walk on them unharmed if he's been hit by something prior to falling upon them ("flashing")

I do like, however, how the more recent megaman games have given these young whippersnappers an easier time by making it so Megaman (in this case, Zero) can survive spikes much easier with Cyber Fairies and the "Strongest" armor which either removes spikes from the level, or makes them just do damage, up to a moderate 4 things of damage.

Space Pirates aren't very smart.

But seriously, I always wondered how Mother Brain got into Tourian to begin with. Seriously. She can't even fit through the fucking door in her Super Metroid Final Boss Mode thing, and as a giant brain, it's not like the Space Pirates can really carry her around or something.

Just imagine that kind of trip, getting Mother Brain into the elevator down to Tourian, especially with the giant drop in early Brinstar.

"Alright, go forward. Watch it, you idiot!"
"I'm sorry, Mom, but you're really freakin' heavy!"
"I am cutting your allowance for that one, mister!"

And Captain N makes even less sense than that.

Ever since I was a little kid, I always wondered why Wily didn't build a robot out of spikes. Spike Man could kill God by hugging him.

Why did Bowser decide to put exploding mines on the periphery of his battle arena when he had no tactical use for them at all?

When a bridge goes out, there will always be some sort of incline nearby and an unguarded vehicle for you to ramp over.

God of War II was pretty bad in this regard also. You used the architecture around you to impale, maim, and decapitate your foes, but other than that, those hanging blades or whatever served no purpose.

Spike Man reminds me of another little flaw.

How is it that Wily can render his own final boss weapons immune to the Mega Buster in the earlier games, but he can't do the same to the Robot Masters? And why does he just quit shielding his final boss weapons against it eventually? I suppose it would be too expensive/take too much time to shield every robot he has against the Mega Buster, but seriously, how much effort and resources can it take to shield your shit from a pea shooter?

I remember Bubble Man having spikes in his room, and yet having the brainpower to avoid them easily while still fighting Mega Man.

Sure, but all he had to do was just float near the bottom, and it was only lethal if Mega did something stupid as well, by leaping.

If he was smarter than the other bosses, he was dragged down by the utter uselessness of his weapon, which I only remember using against the final boss of Megaman 2.

It really makes you wonder how some of these characters achieved their doctorates. I mean, instead of having a front gate, have a chasm filled with spikes. If you want anyone in there, you go out and fly them in. As long as you're the only one who does that, it's not like your sworn enemy is going to sneak in any time soon.

maybe mega's processor is in his foot......

I'm surprised no one has thought to mention Link yet, he might be by far the worst. Why is that these dungeons he has to venture through are always set up just perfectly enough that, if done in the right sequence, you can get through it and to the end with barely any trouble at all. Like isn't the point of a dungeon to keep people out?... Yet theres convieniently placed maps and compasses to help you navigate through them? And not to mention that there's a key for EVERY chest. Like if Ganon doesn't want Link to get an item or weapon. Why not put it in a chest and destroy the key or something? But no, instead he has to have all those evil banishing items guarded by really big monsters that can easily be defeated by the item that you had found in that very dungeon? If you wanna keep Link out, put a lock on the front door, and lock the key inside, or yet again, destroy it, we all know you can do it Ganon.

seriously

Well, in OOT defense those temple "dungeons" are supposed to be places of worship/rest for the sages; Gannondorf just twists them to his purpose.

Though leaving the ONE weapon that can harm the boss tucked away in some obscure chest after seizing the temple is pretty illogical.

I assumed Ganon let that happen because he needed Link to prove his courage and thus obtain the Triforce piece. What other possible justification could there be?

Although, in the earlier games, it doesn't really make sense. Maybe he was drunk.

This discussion reminds me of all sorts of bad guys who just don't do things right. In Star Wars Episode IV for instance. The simple answer can be found here.

I hope that, for our sake, truly evil villains never learn their lesson. Games would just be so hard.

Another thing about the Megaman series- if the only way for Megaman to get into Wily's fortress is to destroy all eight robot masters, why doesn't Wily just keep the robot masters inside the fortress? You know...both versions of them.

Of course, this principle can be applied to just about any game in which you have to find a key to the boss's lair.

The final dungeon in Ocarina of Time always struck me as pretty stupid. If Gannondorf wants you to find him so he can steal your triforce, why does he put a huge force field with six redundant generators around himself?

If Ganon wanted it so bad, why not take it from him when he is a small, weak little child with a mere 3 heart containers? Enless of course Ganon is afraid of being shot at with deku seeds from a slingshot..

It was also great against HeatMan, only two or three hits to kill him.

"Not the face! NOT THE FACE!"

Another one to add to add to the list: Metal Gear Solid

Everything always works out so that Snake gets the card keys in numerical order, the weapons are always behind the doors that Snake just got the card key for, and the villians are all only harmed by the weapon you just got. Seriously - wouldn't the terrorists on Shadow Moses figure out that in order to take Snake down, just move a few weapons around?

Luckily, there are provisos in the evil villain code that from game to game, everyone must forget everything they learned about how the hero acts and fights. Could you imagine how challenging things would be if Ganon decided "Okay, before I start on my plan to take over the world, I'm going to personally kill any schmuck wearing a green tunic"?

I agree. Just look at the story of King Herod, he tried to kill all children under 2 years old for fear of what a certain religious figure would one day become, and he didnt suceed. Ganon just wouldn't have anymore luck doing the same.

I'm glad someone mentioned GoW2, but I don't think we've done it justice yet.

Why, whenever there is a timed door puzzle, revolving waterwheel, or slowly descending platform, there is ALWAYS a time-slowing statue placed handily in the vacinity? I mean, just who the fuck goes around putting all of these damn statues everywhere?!

Why is it, whenever there is indecipherable text that needs to be read, there is a literary student of all known ancient texts right down the corridor?

Need a sheild to block an energy beam? Perseus has it. He's upstairs.

Need to fly accross a massive gap? Oh look, Icarus is here.

Flame spewing wall giving you hassle? The Golden Fleece is right this way, the ONLY device in the world that can deflect projectile attacks back towards their source.

Need to shoot a fallen titan from a chain? There's a handy magical bow right over there. And would you look at that, killing poor Prometheus has givin you increased strength, JUST the thing needed to release your trusty steed from a titans immovable grasp.

At least in the first game you had pretty much everything you needed from the start, and you never really noticed if things were just "placed" in your way to aid you. Also seeing as most of the first game was all one big puzzle temple designed to test warriors worth of wielding the ultimate weapon, it made sense in its design. But 2 just doesn't feel right in that regard.

Actually, the reason why you had to defeat the robot masters was because they were attacking the world and the place you were sent to. It doesn't seem like that because you just think of the level being an area set up specifically so you can fight the boss, but supposedly the robot master is "attacking" the area, and had plenty of time to set up all the traps before you got there.

It's just like Mega man Zero, except in the normal Mega man, you don't have someone telling you what exactly Pharaoh man was doing in a Techno-ancient temple.

So you were saving the world before you dealt with the bad guy. If Wily kept all the Robot Masters in his base, who would attack the world and make him an evil villain?

On the subject of Ganondorf not learning, he actually does. In every game he has some new attacks, new spins on the previous. We all expect him to at one point float in the air and shoot beams of darkness/light at us to play tennis to the death, but in TP, he mixed that up by having Zelda do it to us, and having extra attacks and fakes to throw us off.

For the items in dungeons, well they did at least TRY to keep link away from the good stuff, locking the door and guarding it with minions and other things. But you can't blame them for some stuff. Like, they fill in a doorway with stuff and make it not noticeable, how were they to know Link had bought bombs and an item that made bombable doors noticeable? Or could transform into a wolf and sniff them out? Or become really tiny and ask a local mouse?

The traps could keep out a normal person, but a normal person doesn't happen upon a spring loaded grapple-chain on their travels down the road.

You win this round.

The first one deals more with the temple of Pandora, which prompted great warriors to test their strength in order to achieve the goal - which was ultimately, to get Pandora's Box. The second game focuses mainly on the Temple of the Fates, where it's another way to get from point A to point B to get an audience with the fates.

That reminds me. In Legend of Zelda games, why does Ganon keep a monsters only weakness in the dungeon that it dwells in? I quote from HySpace:

"SHIT, WHO LEFT A MIRROR SHIELD LAYING AROUND IN THE EARTH TEMPLE. I THINK IT'S PRETTY OBVIOUS THAT THE LAST PLACE I WOULD WANT REFLECTIVE MATERIAL IS IN A CONFINED SPACE WHERE LIGHT CAUSES ME TO-

FUCK, DOWN I GO. "

For Mega Man~
immunity to the Mega Buster ~~ It most likely would be impossible to make everything immune to it due to resource limitations. There's a reason Wily is trying to take over the world.

Spikes ~~ These mythical sharp and pointy things are capable of one-hit killing Mega Man due to the fact that they're as big as Mega Man, sharp and pointy. They pierce right through his armor with ease. Wily doesn't have a Spike Man because his Robot Masters are notoriously idiotic(See cartoons for example). Spike Man would probably break the entire world with his spike-based spiking, therein ruining Wily's plan to rule it.

For Link~~
Ganon's a retard. nuff said.



What I personally like is how in Sonic they put those magical little rods all over the darn place so you can instantly whisk back there upon death. It also helps that you can get Super Sonic in Sonic 2 before the end of the first area...
Way to go robotnik.

I think we all can just pretty much assume that every villain in every game is a retard.. I havent been able to think of a game where nothing ever goes perfectly for the hero.

Every Metroid game ever.

"Oh no, I slipped! MY POWERUPS! DON'T LEAVE ME!"

The villians from Zork.
They made a labyrinth without putting a map of it someplace! Now that's plain evil.

All villians need to do is to take on heroes when they first arrive at thier castles and not wait until the end when they have powered up and picked up all these super items lying around your fortress for no apparent reasno.

See, the thing about doing that is it makes the villains stop whatever they're doing every time some putz shows up at their door and go kill them. That's what their guards are for. Why they don't keep their second in command near the gates to kill the people, though, I don't know.

I'm surprised nobody has yet to mention this list and this list in response to this thread. Pretty much everything that's been said in this thread is on one of these lists, guaranteed.

Oh god that makes me mad XD.... And touché.

He needed Link to pull out the master sword so that he could get to the promised land.

Further, Link didn't have the Triforce until after doing that. Ganon reached the triforce, and it split. The triforce of power went to him, the triforce of courage to Link, and the triforce of wisdom to Sheik/Zelda.

I would spoiler that, but it's OoT, for chrissake.