We're to blame for all of it
 

Each and every citizen of this country, age 18 and over, is responsible for our government. We let the government do what it wants and we don't do anything about it. What do we do when we hate something? Why, 99% of us just talk to eachother about how we hate it and why. Do we protest and march on D.C.? Nope.

See, the government knows what we are all too lazy to do anything. Heck, less than half of us even VOTE, one of the quickest, easiest things to do. So how are we going to change the government and stop them from being criminals and getting paid for it? We wont. We just wont. We want to vote someone in to do it for us because most of us are lazy. We wont take time away from anything to march. Nope.

See, if over 50% of the country did not want something, according to democracy it is not supposed to happen should something be done about it. If over 50% of the country wanted, say, the boarders more protected or the troops to be brought back, and all of those people drove to D.C. and protested as a group to have our troops brought back, they would be. The government knows that it cannot function w/o taxes, and we don't pay taxes if we don't work or buy things. If we actually got off our asses and protested, things would have to change. The government wont have any choice in the matter.

IIRC, you cannot be fired if you are protesting a valid cause, all the company can do is hire a temp. Butat the same time, if half of your staff didn't show up, and you fired all of them, then you would have hell to pay when the protests ended.

I know there are people who cannot do this, reasons of health or occupation (such as doctors, nurses, or surgeons) but even if 20% of the population protested, maybe even less, then things would change.

But we wont. We're too lazy or preoccupied. We wont miss out 24, Heroes, CSI, or anything. We wont want to spend the gas money we could spend on iPods, HD Tvs, or computers. We wont take the time that we could devote to reading a book, mowing the grass, or sitting around "relaxing." This is why the country wont change.

The government no longer works for us. WE work for them. We used to be able to tell the government what it can and cannot do. Now they are telling us. They get to commit crimes, be bribed with taxpayermoney (look up "lobbyist" and read the definition. you wont be suprised that they exist but you should be that it is accepted in our legal system), basically do what they want when the want.

They get paid for talking and writing. Did you know that they use to meet 5 days a week, but now 2, 3 tops? And they increased how much money they demand to do the work that they were elected to do. Do we do anything about it? No. Do we complain? Yes.

We are to blame for everything. We have a duty to our country to keep reigns in on our government. We are not fulfililng that duty. Our founding fathers fled a government (monarchy) that was corrupt and didn't care about the population of the country, and they put the democracy system in place so our government doesn't turn out corrupt. It is our inherited duty to make our government do what WE want, not the other way around.

You can write to your governor or senator all you want, that wont do shit. Why should the government comply? What are we going to do? We will continue to work, purchase products, pay our taxes. What incentive do they have to do what we say? None. How many of the voting population keeps tabs on what their voted officials do? How they vote? Very few. So they can do what they want, and pretend they give a shit when it comes time to vote.

Now I know not all officials are like this. There are a precious few who care about the people (oh Bill, we are hating the fact that you cannot run) and try to change, but clearly, clearly not enough of them exist in office.

Move to Canada or figure out what income means. Altruistic beliefs and all that other crap pale in the face of bad credit and being unable to eat. The government performs many functions that allow you to live and prosper.

Honestly put this in General or Off Topic or know both sides to what you're saying. The people have never run the government, people have never had a say... The rich and powerful are the ones who have set down the rules all along. This thread is, among other things, nothing more than a flame/troll. Live in the real world before you go spouting crap.

The same is here, too - in Canada. A lot of the people in BC are upset, saying that the big corporations, who make the donations to the government have the most say about everything, and thus, are treated better than the citizens.

Where in all the world are you getting this from? Trolling? Are you serious?

Hey, bring up counterarguments, but don't go around dismissing someone's post based on how you like it.

I put this here to be discussed seriously and intelligently, which I can see I wont get from you.


Now, to punch holes in what little you actually said:

I know of income. I know we are the richest country in the world, or close to it. There are reasons for that. Right now, our country pales in comparison to what it once was. If you are too blind to see that, that isn't my problem.

The rich and powerful are only rich and powerful because of us. If we stopped buying things for a brief period of time that would seriously hurt every company. Should we as a group spend as little as possible until something is improved, our economy would suffer I know, but that effect is only temporary. Showing the government who's boss is a much longer lasting effect.

Everyone complains about things and they don't make any effort to change it.

The government does what it has to do to survive. The only thing the government actually does is for us is the basics, schools, recently medicare, transportation. Not for us. For itself. See, democracy nets the government the most money while keeping rebellion non existant. That is what it turned into.

Obviously it worked, as we are the richest and most powerful in the world, despite our relatively low population, low level of education, and poor health care.

Being unable to eat? There are plenty of people in the US that can't eat, namely the elderly. They have to take a job after retirement at a fastfood joint, because if they don't they have to decide to either buy their meds or food. Social Security was a flawed system from the start. The idea was good, the implimentation wasn't. The money taken out did NOT go into an account of any kind. It went into the general funding of the country, which means the government could spend that money however it wanted, which is how things got as bad as they are now for the elderly. They aren't getting near enough to compensate for inflation.

What about illegals entering our country? What of the two guards in prison right now for shooting an illegal immigrant drug dealer who was given immunity? Do we have any say on that? No. By Democracy, should we? Of course.

What about no universal health care? Many other countries have that, but we don't. And the only location in the US that does provide it is Guantanimo Bay, a place for suspected terrorists.

How about this pointless and stupid war? Every other day a soldier is killed pointlessly defending a place we shouldn't be in for one man's personal ambition.

All of these things the majority of the US want changed, but it wont because that costs money and the government wants less money to leave that wont be returned.

You compared us to Canada. That wont work. Comparing the entire state of the US to the state of any other country if futile. There are more than one way of doing government, and most prominent countries have been around for a long time, so they must be doing something right. Comparing how the US is working VS how another country is is like comparing two cars based on how they work, disregarding any problems.

Say something constructive, or say nothing at all.

We can change things, but we are too lazy to do so. Everyone is blaming the government for everything, but they are failing to take any responsibility for letting it happen. It isn't enough to just vote, voting has little meaning, especially in the last 8 years. We have to make our voices heard and make sure that we don't become so disconnected from our own government that we all become ignorant of what is even going on.

Outright flaming. Don't even go there, don't try to argue about it, and if you feel the need to call any response which is in opposition to your opinion unintelligent and trivial, then let a moderator handle it, because if you feel so strongly that any reply that doesn't agree with you is (to you) automatically unintelligent and, more importantly, that the person saying it is unintelligent and incapable of intelligent discussion, then don't reply.

We do not tolerate flaming in this forum, and it is even less tolerated in the discussion forum. 3 day temp ban.

Carry on discussionating.

Now to punch holes in what you said.

Sure it pales, but thats also why Bush has the lowest approval rating of any president ever. And its not like we've exactly gotten worse, the congress, whenever they make a bill that gives them a pay raise or cut in the number of days they work, it doesn't come into effect until AFTER thier re-elected, meaning, if their re-elected, the people approve of thier actions. Not to mention that the people running for these offices, they have jobs too, maybe not time consuming jobs, but they do get their money from SOMEWHERE before they get elected. They sure aren't gonna give up that job, and the ones that do, they need to make up for it somehow, don't you think?

Now this scares me. The second we temporarily stop buying things is the second that these "big corporations" start layoffs to compensate for the losses that not buying would incur. Then, the corporations might just see that "hey, we can run this with less employees and still make the same amount of product and incidently more PROFIT! Lets NOT hire back a bunch of those people that we laid off." In the end, the people worker is hurt most buy this, not the corporation. And thats assuming we don't fall into a depression much like the Great Depression of the 1930's, which is another possibility if we all stop spending.

Because we like our job and don't want to lose it? Plus, the means to change something are not through protests. If you don't like an official, go to your nearest public office and see if you can't start an initiative to recall said official.

Government trends show that it is lessening funding towards public schools and increasing towards Private School Vouchers. Interstate transportation was only started in the 50's. Metropolitan transportation was mostly done by local governments. Also, the government you're talking about is a national government. It can't fix all the problems of every little city in the country. Thats up to the city to fix themselves, which cities and states ARE in fact starting to stand up for themselves and take control of local issues that you seem to want taken care of. Look at Swarzenegger (sp?) and Bloomberg. Bloomberg's salary is $1 a year.

Low education level? We have one of the highest in the world. It may seem low, but our worst schools are still better than the best schools other nations have. And don't even throw europe into this with their higher standards. We test EVERYONE on the internationally standardized tests (through the use of SAT, PACT, ACT, so on and so forth) while they only test a select few (and wouldn't you know it, its the top 10-20% of thier kids). I will admit that I may be wrong on this, but my memory tells me otherwise.

The way social security is SUPPOSED to work is that the elderly were supposed to be funded by todays youngest workforce, teenagers and 20 somethings. The elderly are also supposed to be dead (not many people reached 65 back when SS was implemented) but we aren't gonna kill them. And even though the number of elderly has increased, The number of teens and 20 somethings in the work force is declining due to a declineing birth rate. The birthrate needs to remain steady around 1.25 or higher (I really want to say 1.5 but I'm not quite sure how this number is obtained).

No, we don't get a say in that. We're not a true democracy. We're a REPUBLIC. Theres a slight difference there.

Well, if by universal health care you mean the doctors oath in which he isn't supposed to EVER turn down a patient in need, then yes, I think we already have that. Its just that some doctors look at some people, and see money instead of a sick person. Woman who died in L.A. Hospital is a pretty good example of it.

Actually, its every day now. And it isn't exactly one man's personal ambition. Now, I HATE the O'Reilly factor, but my dad was listening to one day (we were in a 12 hour car drive, he hates it too, but we found it entertaining on that long of a drive) and they had a soldier on it saying how much he wanted to stay in Iraq to finish his job of putting the country up on its own feet. I say we let the soldiers decide themselves if they want to stay or not and support them in thier decision and not force them to leave a country they want to desperatly help the only way they can.

That all started when Bush refuses to have the people give something up. It isn't that the people aren't willing to give something up, but the officials in charge don't want to force the people to give something up. Remember WWII? We had to ration SUGAR and MEAT to fight that. They don't see an increase in taxes as a possibility, especially now with Bush's low approval rating, but who knows, maybe a raise in taxes COULD raise his approval rating. Maybe you should be a political adviser if you know so much about how things are done in the government.

So, GB is a great country cause they haven't changed thier government in over 500 years. Just the royal family that leads it. We broke off from it...why? Because we compared ourselves to them and then we created a government based on thier government where the President is king, except for 4 years. The Congress is thier Parliament (I beleive thier parliament also has 2 houses). The Judicial Branch? We have a supreme court, they have a...Magistrate or something or another. We created a government just like thiers, except we imposed term limits on the "king".

Isn't that the opposite of the first ammendment. You know, the freedom of speech?

We're not lazy. We've become accustomed to this lifestyle made possible by the government and refuse to do anything to give up our way of life. Again, by blaming the government but not doing anything, thier acknowledging that the NATIONAL government can't do anything for them, but the LOCAL government is where they need to start to get local problems fixed. They SOMEWHAT control how funding is dispersed. Like Schools, did you know the funding public schools get is based on the people who live around said school? If said school is in a rich neighborhood, then the school gets more money than one placed in a poor neighborhood. But their still held to the same standards. Voting has alot of meaning behind it. Especially with less people voting, that means each and every single vote means THAT MUCH MORE. Being 1 vote out of 100 is much more meaningful than 1 vote out of 100,000.

Ignorant of whats going on? Sorry, but I don't live in DC so you'll have to forgive me that my media outlet is limited to Fox News and CNN and NBC and MSNBC and CBS and ABC and TIME and NewsWeek and Wall Street Journal and The Post and the internet and etc. You'll have to forgive me but I can't possibly watch, read, look through all that my entire life let alone every week and everyday. I have a job that I want to keep.

I apologise for not adding more to my arguements.

Actually, I don't think there is much more to say.

Also, in conjunction with that, companies now are attempting to run as lean as possible, no inventory and cutting jobs. This creates a market for employers, not employees. If you want to make a difference run for office or rise up in the ranks. Protests accomplish nothing more than stroking the ego of the common man to keep him locked in innaction.

Heck, watch the Die Hippie, Die episode of Southpark if you need more clarrification.

Whoa whoa the fuck whoa. How the fuck did you not get banned for this? You've been warned about playing mod before and on top of that you take it upon yourself to tell someone he's full of crap? Banned for flaming and mod impersonation, see you in a week.

As far as Mattblack's ban I dunno, it was instigated by Demetrius' flame but it was stil a flame and you're sort of supposed to not do that whatever reason you think you have for doing that... I can kinda see commuting (who would think President Bush would have taught me a new word?) that down to a warn, but I'm gonna leave that as Fenris' call. In whichever case, this isn't anything you couldn't have worked out by checking the subforum rules.

(EDIT: non-mod post content deleted cause I'm not gonna sit here and respond to a guy I just barred from defending himself)