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Seil 07-05-2007 05:56 AM

Is a Clam Sentient?
 
In a little blip of a comment in our private forum, a guildie said that he had the patience of a clam. I'm wondering - Is a clam patient... or.... just.... clam-like? Is everything based on instinct or intelligence?

I_Like_Swordchucks 07-05-2007 06:47 AM

Instinct. It lacks a clear cut brain, just a bundle of neurons. It cannot rationalize, reason, feel, or anything else. It simply does simple reactions to external stimuli. It is not sentient.

However, squids and octopi (developed cousins of the clam) are quite sentient. They are probably not that far from chimp level of intelligence.

I'm not sure if this is really a thread for discussion though, as it is really a yes or no answer, and not really debatable.

greed 07-05-2007 11:45 AM

Spose we could morph it into a general animal intelligence thread.

But squids? I knew octopi were around that smart (able to identify specific people by sight, solve complex in animal terms problems etc) but I thought squid were a lot lower. Like reptile or fish level, simple hunter seekers. But yeah clams don't actually have brains, just nerves. Not even instinct so much as reflexes.

ArlanKels 07-05-2007 12:12 PM

Before you can say what is and isn't sentient you need to define sentience.

Thus we turn to www.m-w.com

Main Entry: sen·tient
Pronunciation: 'sen(t)-sh(E-)&nt, 'sen-tE-&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin sentient-, sentiens, present participle of sentire to perceive, feel
1 : responsive to or conscious of sense impressions <sentient beings>
2 : AWARE
3 : finely sensitive in perception or feeling
- sen·tient·ly adverb



And clams are sentient by this defintion, they alter their behavior based on their surroundings.

Zilla 07-05-2007 01:47 PM

but is that from a conscious reaction or just reflexes? Are they REALLY aware? Or is it just "this neuron has fired, respond by pulling in tongue" like a program?

Osterbaum 07-05-2007 03:34 PM

Clams react to different stimulations of the enviroment differently.

Who cares if they are sentients or not. They are what they are, which has allready been established.

"Sentient" is just another category, one which in the end doesen't matter THAT much.

ArlanKels 07-05-2007 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zilla
but is that from a conscious reaction or just reflexes? Are they REALLY aware? Or is it just "this neuron has fired, respond by pulling in tongue" like a program?

Reflexes or not they're responding to sensation.

1 : responsive to or conscious of sense impressions

Azisien 07-05-2007 04:23 PM

Under most or all of the definitions of sentience I've seen, including the one posted above, the clam can be classified as sentient, like most or all animals. It's a sessile feeder, so it's got a highly reduced nervous system (a nerve ring would be the more technical term) because it has no functional need for an advanced one.

Intelligence is difficult or impossible to clearly define, but as far as we can call the clam nerve ring a brain, that brain wouldn't appear to have any higher thought capacity.

I_Like_Swordchucks 07-05-2007 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azisien
Under most or all of the definitions of sentience I've seen, including the one posted above, the clam can be classified as sentient, like most or all animals. It's a sessile feeder, so it's got a highly reduced nervous system (a nerve ring would be the more technical term) because it has no functional need for an advanced one.

By your translation of that definition, a bacterium or a plant is sentient. They can respond to a stimuli such as light to move either towards or away from it. Really, but taking that loose a definition, ALL life is sentient.

Now if you take a stricter, MORE SCIENTIFICALLY ACCURATE, definition of sentience, it requires the organism to be at least somewhat aware of its environment. Not rational/sapient, but capable of at least feeling or suffering.

A clam can only do simple stimuli-response actions similar to a little old cell. I can't think of a single biology textbook out there, or a legitimate philosophy text for that matter, that would consider a clam sentient. (And no a squid isn't as intelligent as an octopus, but it still fits into the sentient category). A mouse is sentient. A dog is sentient. A fish even has a small bit of sentience. A clam is not. If we take ArlanKels definition, even, a clam is not aware, it has no perception, and it is not conscious of its actions. Therefore, not sentient. Its not really a question thats up for debate.

ArlanKels 07-05-2007 07:12 PM

You're attempting to describe intellectual self-awareness.


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