The Warring States of NPF

The Warring States of NPF (http://www.nuklearforums.com/index.php)
-   Dead threads (http://www.nuklearforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=91)
-   -   IRAQ: Terrorism Backfires (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?t=2313)

DarthZeth 03-03-2004 11:51 AM

IRAQ: Terrorism Backfires
 
March 2, 2004: Several bombs went off in Karbala, during a Shia religious festival in this, the most holy city for Shias. Over three dozen died and more were wounded. Terrorist attacks during the festival were feared, because of stories about Saddam supporters and al Qaeda seeking to trigger a civil war in Iraq (between Sunnis and Shia). But the bodies and wounded were cleared away and the religious activities continued. Bombs went off in Baghdad mosques as well. Iraqis tend to blame all these attacks on "foreigners" (al Qaeda and other Islamic radicals). But in the past, there has been violent acts by radical Sunni and Shia groups against each others religious shrines.

Sunni clergy have issued fatwas (religious declarations) asking Iraqis to stop terrorist attacks on other Iraqis. The religious leaders did not ask for attacks to be halted against foreigners.



March 3, 2004: The Iraqi governing council delayed the signing of the new constitution and called for three days of mourning for the nearly 200 dead from yesterday's bombings of Shia religious celebrations. While some Iraqis blamed the US or Israel for the attacks, most, including the governing council, recognized that the attacks were likely carried out by Sunni Islamic radicals. In other words, "Wahabis" (the form of Islam that is predominant in Saudi Arabia). Sunni Islamic radicals have a long history of persecuting Shia Moslems. Many Wahabis consider Shia to be heretics. The Saudi government officially outlaws such attitudes, and cracks down on Sunni preachers who speak out against the Shia. But the attitudes remain, and many of those in al Qaeda have it in for the Shia. For example, yesterday, there were also suicide bombing attacks against Shia in Pakistan, where violence between Shia and Sunni has been going on for a long time. Iraqis know that al Qaeda is trying to start a civil war between Sunni and Shia, but the population is not taking the bait.

Iraqis complain the Americans should be able to protect them from these terrorist attacks. But the Iraqis are told that they will have to make an effort themselves. US troops are a lot safer in Iraq these days. The resistance doesn't like to tangle with coalition troops, because the Americans spend a lot of time coming up with ways to defeat Iraqi tactics, and are always developing new ploys to ambush the attackers. Hundreds of robots and UAVs have been sent over to make roadside bombs less effective, and to constantly patrol the roadsides for armed Iraqis setting up ambushes.

There are plenty of Iraqi cops and security troops in action now, but many of the Iraqi commanders lack initiative and resolve. This is driving the American advisors and trainers nuts. This is why you keep hearing about Iraqis being sent to long training courses in Jordan (where the cops are pretty effective) and the US. A lot of effort has gone into recruiting Iraqis who have the right stuff to be effective police commanders. But for now, the coalition is stuck with a lot of old timers who came up at a time when Saddam's secret police were around to do the dirty work. The Sunni resistance and al Qaeda know they can intimidate the Iraqi cops, and that's what they are trying to do.

The Karbala suicide bombings yesterday were unavoidable because most security in those towns is left to the religious militias (organized by mullahs to protect the holy sites.) These guys don't like to take advice from Americans, but this may be changing after the recent bombings.



Source: strategypage.com (in a few days, that link will probably not show that story. just hit "more" at the bottom to get to march 2 and 3)

Chirijiraden 03-03-2004 12:22 PM

That's too bad. But from what it sounds like, the insurgance is running out of strength, thanks in part to the effort of U.S. forces. The U.S. Armed Forces rock, no doubt about that. But didn't they say something on NBC Nightly News about that some terrorist who was known to be making WMD's was involved in the bombing? They also said we could've gotten him before Operation Iraqi Freedom began?

DarthZeth 03-03-2004 12:46 PM

dunno.

i DID hear, tho, that with alquidia bashed to bits, smaller, independent terrorist groups are higher on the list of threats now. And with out the networking, you have to go after each one individually. then again, with out the network, they are less effective. So its a bit of a double edged situation.

Trev-MUN Hates AOL 03-03-2004 01:21 PM

The terrorism might be backfiring... but I dunno. There's some incidents which make me grit my teeth. People are still dying and they're dying in droves - and it's causing anti-American hatred to build even higher, as is anti-Semitism. Demonstrations are going on...

After Polish marines shot up a civilian minivan whose brakes weren't working and some of the soldiers and civvies involved died, Iraqi citizens protested and shouted the usual "death to America!" hate slogans and many said they would fight against the Americans if this doesn't stop.

We keep hearing about how things are improving, but the common Iraqi seems more and more eager to slit the throat of an American as each day passes, and we keep hearing people dying due to the partisans... I just dunno.

DarthZeth 03-03-2004 01:31 PM

sure they shout for progress.... but the again, they GET progress.

one of the cruel ironies of yesterday's bombings is that last year they couldn't even celebrate Karbala.

Chirijiraden 03-03-2004 05:14 PM

And that's one of the good outcomes of Operation: Iraqi Freedom. Saddam is no more. Yet some people just can't see the use of our sending troops over there. Others think we can just leave. But we can't. We need to stay there until they have a fully established government, military and police force. And for the mean time will just have to deal with all these suicide bombings until EVERYTHING is fixed.

Just Jon 03-03-2004 05:29 PM

Won't it be nice when the US does finally pull out, leaving either the Iraq government or the UN in charge, and they'll still be chanting "Down with USA"? That's what gives me the warm fuzzies, really.

Jagos 03-04-2004 02:58 AM

IF we get out of there any time soon...

Remember that America is the fighting force of Korea and Japan respectively. Since around the 50s. Just need to update the SOFA status every few years...

DarthZeth 03-04-2004 04:23 PM

Quote:

March 4, 2004: Shia and Sunni clergy joined to denounce the terrorist attacks. Al Qaeda issued a press release denying responsibility for the bombings of Shia holy places, but also condemning Shias as heretics.

Shia leaders use the bombing attacks as justification for expanding the police powers of the Shia clergy and the formation of an independent Shia militia. But the Shia already have a militia in the holy cities, and these militias were unable to keep the terrorists out. The basic problem is the Iraqi tendency to want power, but not responsibility, and to blame someone else when they screw up. This pattern is seen with the officials and police commanders hired since Saddam's government fell. Moreover, the massive amounts of documents belonging to Saddam's government that have been captured show that the problem was an old one. Saddam dealt with it via the use of terror and rewards. And even that didn't succeed, as during the last few years, Saddam was being successfully lied to and deceived by his key aides.

There are Iraqi leaders who have better grasp of reality, and they advise the coalition to be patient and persistent. Iraqis have noted the growing al Qaeda violence in Saudi Arabia, where they can't blame it all on the United States. Many Iraqis know that Ansar al Islam, a Sunni radical organization, composed largely of Kurds, affiliated with al Qaeda and supported by Iran, has been staging terrorist attacks in the north. But it's hard for most Iraqis to accept the fact that Moslems would kill Moslems like this. Accepting this means admitting that militant Islam can be evil and that Arabs are behind some of the most mindless violence on the planet.

The coalition says it will increase the border police. But a big problem with the current border force is corruption and bribery. Smugglers have, for centuries, worked out deals with the border guards. This is considered a traditional and acceptable way to earn a living. Even Saddam was unable to completely seal the borders. Moreover, terrorists inside Iraq have access to plenty of weapons and explosives. Saddam bought lots of both during his three decades in power and lots of stuff was looted as his government collapsed. If you're a terrorists and you have cash, you can buy all the explosives you need from criminal gangs.

KhanFusion 03-05-2004 07:35 PM

Why would Iran support a radical Sunni group, terrorist or otherwise? Iran is predominately Shitte Muslim, not Sunni...


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:20 PM.

Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.