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01d55 03-03-2004 10:56 PM

Was Sauron a Lich?
 
I was just thinking, and I realized that Sauron's link to the Ring of Power was eerily similar to a Lich's link to its phylactery (the gem or box or gem-in-a-box in which the lich's soul is trapped)

In each case, they gain immense power from the existence of the object and are invulnerable as long as the object persists, but if the object is destroyed, each is destroyed with it.

Does anyone know of a derivation (DnD ripped it off from LoTR like they did with orcs, mutual source, ect.) for this? A contradiction to the analogy?

Viper Daimao 03-03-2004 11:09 PM

Sauron was a lesser god. he was nothing compared to Morgoth. Sauron got beat by a friggin dog. A badass talking dog, but a dog nonetheless.

01d55 03-04-2004 01:22 AM

1. Who is Morgoth? What happened to him?

2. Where did you get this?

3. A talking dog? WTF?

HRslammR 03-04-2004 01:35 AM

sounds like the lich king might've been inspired by sauron...

Chrono_Traveller 03-04-2004 10:57 AM

My advice, read the sylmarillion (bad spelling), it gives you all the info (maybe more) that you wanted to know about the history of Middle Earth and the one ring.

But to summarize, like Viper said Sauron was a lesser god who I believe is immortal (its been a long time since I read the book). In a plot to take over the world, Melkior (the head evil guy) and Sauron make these 9 rings (might be twelve I don't remember) and give them to the leaders of the humans, elves, and dwarves. Then of course they have the one ring which Sauron made to bend the will of those who wore the rings. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Sauron is killed by the destruction of the one ring, just incredibly weakened by it since it had a whole heck of a lot of his power tied to the ring.

I'm not sure who Viper is referring to, although Sauron was defeated before, the only person other than of course Frodo, that I can remember is Isildur defeating Sauron in the last alliance between humans and elves.

stuper of thought 03-04-2004 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 01d55
1. Who is Morgoth? What happened to him?

2. Where did you get this?

3. A talking dog? WTF?


morgoth is the dark lord that was at one time one of the valar that sauron was a servant to. you'll find it in the simarillion. chrono, on a side note, sauron made 20 rings all together. 9 for men, 7 for dwarves, 3 for elves and one for himself.

Trev-MUN Hates AOL 03-04-2004 11:15 AM

For finding information on the LotR world, I'd suggest checking out the Encyclopedia of Arda. You'll learn more about Tolkein's world than you ever wanted to know.

Here, lookie about Mogroth and Sauron:

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/m/morgoth.html

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/s/sauron.html

Originally a Maia of Aulė's people, Sauron was early corrupted by Melkor and became his most trusted lieutenant.

And from another entry...

Of the many spirits that descended into Arda at its beginning, those of lesser stature than the Valar, though they were still powerful, were known as Maiar. Each of the Maiar was attached to the 'people' of a particular Vala. So, for example, the Maia Ossė, as a spirit of the sea, belonged to the people of Ulmo, while Curumo, the Maia who came to Middle-earth as Saruman, belonged to the people of Aulė the Smith.

In the Third Age, there were still Maiar in physical form to be found in Middle-earth. The most important of these were Saruman, Sauron (originally also of Aulė's people), and Olórin, known as Gandalf, who belonged to the people of Manwė and Varda.


Quote:

Originally Posted by HRslammR
sounds like the lich king might've been inspired by sauron...

If you're talking about FF1, I wouldn't doubt it. After all, most fantasy games are thickly cemented in the LotR (or AD&D's take on) world.

Lycanthrope 03-04-2004 08:24 PM

1) Maiar are closer to angels then gods. Gandalf was a Maia.
2) Sauron's ring made him vastly more powerful than he was when he got overthrown the first time
3) Morgoth was still more powerful (second most powerful Vala ever).
4) The legend-sorces about sauron's connection to the ring were probably similar if not the same as those of a lich's connection with its phylactory (I don't know from which culture the lich myth hails, but it sounds a little German, so it wouldn't be too far off).
5) on a tangental point of irrelevency, Tom Bombidil was the Vala (god), Aule, explaining why he was unaffected by the ring (being both Sauron's old master and the Vala of all forged things)

Edit: Sauron did not make the three elven rings. The Noldor (elf-gnomes) created those.

Edit2: Sauron was defeated 3 times. First, during the fall of his master Morgoth. Second, when Isildur cut the ring off his finger. Third, when Frodo destroyed the ring once and for all.

Edit3: Consider yourself corrected on the issue of the ring not killing sauron. In the book, he gets about twenty seconds in which he manifests as a vast specter with one eye, and then gets blown away by the wind. But it was just a ghost, nothing more. A lesser version of the same thing happens when Worm-Tongue stabbs Saruman

Edit 4: Thanks Trev-Mun for posting that link. I'll look it over soon.

Viktor Von Russia 03-04-2004 09:09 PM

I'm not sure if this is true (I have no source to prove it), but some people I've talked to about LotR believe that Sauron is the Necromancer that Gandalf mentioned in The Hobbit. Anyone know if this is true i.e. is there any written proof?

Lycanthrope 03-04-2004 09:15 PM

He probably was the necromancer, but this doesn't make him human. Check the Simarillion. Its all there.


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