May I ask why? Apart from Fran (who was obviously designed to resemble a playboy bunny), all his designs seemed logical, considering the hot environment they lived in, as well as imaginative and evocative of a Mediterranean region rich in culture and history.

Do I really have to? :(

Fine, but I don't know how you can look at those characters and not have this stuff jump out at you.

Penelo: Skintight leather onepiece that leaves part of her inner thighs bare and ends with a buckle for some reason. She's got leather... wings or something coming off her shoulders. And fat leather cuffs. And she's got these massive leather combination shin-and-knee guards that are buckled over what are either calf-high boots or socks with buckles.

Ashe: I'm not sure what Ashe is trying to be. Her clothing is part lingierie, part futuristic schoolgirl, part tramp, part battle armor. She's got a translucent lingerie top that leaves the belly bare and ends in coat tails behind, with a black leather half-corset to cover that bare belly. Rather than sleeves she's a set of armbands and elbow-guards with a bit of that translucent stuff stretched between. There's a stiff schoolgirl/sailor square neckerchief that attaches to a fancy collar. Pink latex short-shorts that go on like a diaper and are held in place only by friction with her belt, as there are no belt loops. It might be a micro skirt too for all I know. Below she's wearing elaborate ornamental cuisses, and flaring emblazoned boots encased in high heel sabatons.

Vaan: He lives in the desert and spends his days outdoors. He needs a shirt. But he's poor so maybe he can't afford one. But he somehow afforded a pair of tight, leather, armored pants, complete with cleated sabotons.

Basch: He gets to wear like 4 different things, but he settles for the Bhujerban guard's uniform. It consists of a frilly shirt with an ab-hole, a vest with an ab-hole, a rainbow colored potholder, tweed shorts overlaid with both scale armor and jointed cuisses, greaves, and sandals. Not bad actually, apart from the funny potholder and ab-holes.

Fran: No need for explanations I guess. It's easier to overlook as she's not human and the rest of her race dresses similarly. And I seem to remember reading that Viera actually walk on their toes, explaining the high heels. Don't remember where I read that though.

As I understand it the Dalmasca region is geographically analogous to the Bosporus in Turkey (or Byzantium in ancient times.) Normal desert clothing this ain't. But they are certainly imaginative. These are costumes, just like many of the strange things Nomura comes up with. I'm not complaining. But I don't think it's fair to say that Nomura's designs are shit and that Yoshida's designs for FFXII's main characters are "like normal clothing". His other designs are another story.

You mean Vaan's belly-vest, Ashe's's bikini-bottom/thong thing, or Basch's mismatched outfit, complete with tassel thing off the side there (actually I like Basch's outfit, now that I think about it)?

I liked FFXII, though. I agree the clothing designs were a vast improvement over say, FFX's Tidus outfit. Ignoring the examples I mentioned, yeah, everyone's outfits were a lot more freakin' NORMAL. All the NPCs wore normal clothing. Balthier and Penelo looked normal. Even Reddas with his pink pirate pants was fairly normal looking! I think they captured just around the right amount of strangeness the fantasy setting needed without delving into the world of stupid-looking things like with FFX.

Personally I don't mind games set in the Ivalice world as much as I do games set in the FFVII universe, simply because I liked the games set in Ivalice thus far. I mean, they can milk that stuff to the max IF they milk it properly. That's what I'm saying. They aren't milking FFVII properly because instead of exploring something we give half a crap about in that universe's history or what-have-you, they go off and explore the life of ZACK, and some imaginary made-up stuff that happens after FFVII that usually ends up paling in comparison to danger of the planet exploding or what have you. Oh, people have skin-cancer?! YEAH THAT'S A BIG PROBLEM IN COMPARISON TO A METEOR HITTING YOUR FREAKIN' PLANET AND DESTROYING ALL LIFE.

What was Dirge of Cerberus' villain, anyway, some mutated SOLDIER guy or something? Was he even supposed to be as dangerous as Sephiroth within the plot or what?

EDIT: I was going to edit out my critique of FFXII's clothing, Coinspinner, but you forgot to mention Basch's tassel thing! Also, Ents in LOTR walk on their toes, not Viera. I think. At least it's not something that you'd expect to hear out of Squarenix (OR IS IT?!!)

ANOTHER EDIT: Actually I may be inclined to agree on the toes thing, insofar as that Viera's feet and hands are not shaped like Hume feet/hands. I remember in that scene near the beginning where Fran goes crazy from the mist that her feet definitely are elongated and she's sort've suspended up with only her toes touching the ground. I think she's supposed to have the backwards joint like four-legged animals at the heel, but then not at the knee. Or something like that. But I agree, anyway.

I know I don't get out enough, but I just can't believe Penelo's clothes look normal to anyone. :whee:

And actually, Crisis Core explores the only part of the FFVII world that I had even a bit of interest in, which is the events surrounding Sephiroth, Zack, and SOLDIER preceding the Nibleheim incident. As soon as I saw the scans of guys named "Angeal" and "Genesis", each with a single wing, I lost interest though. I thought FFVII's ending was great and didn't want to know what happened after, so none of the sequels interested me.

The problem is that, where you see excesses, I see ornamental designs that add to the history and culture of a region, in this case a hot place called Ivalice. I think the best way to sum it up is this:

But it's all a matter of taste. Your criticisms are valid, though I think we both can agree that what Nomura does is far more extravagant and less ellegant than Yoshida's designs.

Hojo was the main villain, as I recall. As far as power goes, Omega seemed larger scale than Sephiroth to me.

Of course, DoC was god-awful anyway.

I agree. I haven't played it though, since I finally went from rent-only to boycotting Square entirely after DoC.

I actually had no problem with the designs from FFX. They were a bit wild, but they seemed to fit well. Case in point:

Tidus: arguable, as it doubles as a sports uniform from a society of excess. Much of it is armor.
Yuna: PERFECT example of what a priestess might wear.
Lulu: her outfit is very similar to Squall's, who is also cynical and cold, and Edea's, who is even MORE cold as the villain and is also a fellow sorceress.
Kimahri: well, all his people dress like that. :sweatdrop It probably helps with all that fur in a tropical paradise.
Wakka: again with the sport thing. Uniforms just haven't changed much in 1000 years.
Rikku: Actually resembles what Quistis would look like if she were loud and wore shorts. Except the lace. o.o;
Auron: suit is actually expressly designed to hide his eyes and face, making him mysterious and untrustworthy. It's also based (apparently) on what the ronin wore.

XII's clothes are arguably better suited to desert in general, but I personally happen to like the designs less. Mostly because of overuse of metal, jewels, and leather in places they really don't belong. Basch and Balthier's outfits make a lot of sense, given Basch is a soldier and Balthier is the elegant type who isn't as active as the others and therefore doesn't have to worry as much about sweating. Even so, his shirt is cloth. My pet peeves are Penelo's almost entirely leather jumpsuit which she wears to run errands and Vaan's metal (bronze?) vest and gloves and POOFY leather pants.

You'll suspend your disbelief for a world where people can make giant monsters appear out of thin air, but the clothes just throw you off?

What is this? The game-fashion police? Way to harp on a minor detail guys... :)

The clothes aren't much worse than some popular animes, its just that the character models are more realistic.

Of course not. They make giant monsters appear from under the ground, out to sea, from the sky, through a portal, etc. A monster coming out of absolutely nowhere is just silly.



Besides, having spent many a summer in a desert, I can tell you leather is NOT a good idea. And neither is metal. Especially when left in the sun for too long.

Those "poor" people have it good, though, what with living underground and having loose, cloth clothing. The subterranean temperature is always roughly 60 degrees F, meaning you won't freeze and you won't burn, and cotton, as a natural material, will keep you warm when it's cool and breathes to help keep you cool in the heat, should you venture into the blazing desert sun from your underground paradise.

Normally, yeah. But when I first saw FFXII's characters I thought Yoshida had designed the NPCs and world but Nomura had designed the characters. In this particular instance I think their styles overlap, that's what I'm getting at. Possibly intentionally, as there might be this idea within Square Enix that Final Fantasy requires outlandish designs.

As for FFX, I feel that game's designs also add to the history and culture of Spira, albeit with more bad designs. In fact they look more appropriate to their environment than XII's, for reasons bluestarultor mentioned. Vaan and Penelo's redesigns for Revenant Wings and FFTA2 are improvements IMO.

Oh, and this is just for laughs. :whee:

I'm not complaining about the clothes, just the thought that XII's characters somehow look more normal or appropriate to their environment than X's. I don't agree and, well, that's what forums are for. :p