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-   -   Court Won't Hear Torture Case Because Then CIA Would Have To Admit To Torture (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?t=24727)

Fifthfiend 10-09-2007 11:04 AM

Court Won't Hear Torture Case Because Then CIA Would Have To Admit To Torture
 
No, seriously:

Top court won't hear appeal in CIA torture case

By James Vicini


Quote:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A German citizen who says he was kidnapped, imprisoned and tortured by the CIA lost his appeal on Tuesday when the Supreme Court refused to review a decision dismissing the case because it would expose state secrets.

Attorneys for Khaled el-Masri, a German of Lebanese descent, argued in the high court appeal that his lawsuit did not depend on the disclosure of state secrets and that it should be allowed to go forward in U.S. court.

His case has drawn worldwide attention to the CIA's extraordinary rendition program in which terrorism suspects are sent from one foreign country to another for interrogation. Human rights groups have strongly criticized the program.

Masri's case sparked outrage in Germany and prompted a parliamentary inquiry to find out what authorities might have known about U.S. renditions.

Masri's attorneys from the American Civil Liberties Union challenged what they called the Bush administration's increased invoking of national security secrets to prevent any judicial inquiry into serious allegations of misconduct.

The administration also has asserted the so-called state secrets privilege in an effort to dismiss the lawsuits over the warrantless domestic spying program that Bush created after the September 11 attacks.

'CENTRAL FACTS NOT STATE SECRETS'

Masri's allegations have been widely reported by the news media. "The central facts of this case are not state secrets and do not become so simply because the government insists otherwise," Ben Wizner of the ACLU wrote in the appeal.

Masri's lawsuit, which sought damages of at least $75,000, was brought against former CIA Director George Tenet, three private aviation companies and 20 unnamed employees of the CIA and the companies.

The Supreme Court sided with the administration and rejected the appeal without any explanation or recorded dissent.

Masri said he was abducted by Macedonian authorities on December 31, 2003, while on vacation. After 23 days, he was handed over to a CIA team and flown to a CIA-run secret prison near Kabul, Afghanistan, he said.

Masri said he was beaten, interrogated and held as a terrorism suspect, even though CIA officials quickly determined his innocence. He said he was flown to Albania and released on May 28, 2004.

A federal judge and then a U.S. appeals court dismissed the lawsuit because it threatened to expose government secrets, including how the CIA supervises its most sensitive intelligence operations.

The Supreme Court formally recognized the state secrets privilege in a 1953 ruling. The ACLU's attorneys said the court has not revisited the decision in more than 50 years and urged the justices to re-examine it.

The CIA has never acknowledged any role in Masri's detention. The Bush administration opposed Masri's appeal.

Administration attorneys said lower courts applied "settled legal principles to the highly classified facts of this case" and that further review by the Supreme Court was unwarranted.
I mean, the big "state secret" they can't expose is that, well, the CIA kidnaps and tortures innocent people. And of course the facts are already public knowledge, so the only effect is to keep the CIA from having to admit this in a court of law.

...I guess this is as good a time as any to reiterate that torture doesn't even work:

Fort Hunt's Quiet Men Break Silence on WWII
Interrogators Fought 'Battle of Wits'

By Petula Dvorak
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, October 6, 2007; Page A01


Quote:

For six decades, they held their silence.

The group of World War II veterans kept a military code and the decorum of their generation, telling virtually no one of their top-secret work interrogating Nazi prisoners of war at Fort Hunt.

When about two dozen veterans got together yesterday for the first time since the 1940s, many of the proud men lamented the chasm between the way they conducted interrogations during the war and the harsh measures used today in questioning terrorism suspects.

Back then, they and their commanders wrestled with the morality of bugging prisoners' cells with listening devices. They felt bad about censoring letters. They took prisoners out for steak dinners to soften them up. They played games with them.

"We got more information out of a German general with a game of chess or Ping-Pong than they do today, with their torture," said Henry Kolm, 90, an MIT physicist who had been assigned to play chess in Germany with Hitler's deputy, Rudolf Hess.

Blunt criticism of modern enemy interrogations was a common refrain at the ceremonies held beside the Potomac River near Alexandria. Across the river, President Bush defended his administration's methods of detaining and questioning terrorism suspects during an Oval Office appearance.

Several of the veterans, all men in their 80s and 90s, denounced the controversial techniques. And when the time came for them to accept honors from the Army's Freedom Team Salute, one veteran refused, citing his opposition to the war in Iraq and procedures that have been used at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.

"I feel like the military is using us to say, 'We did spooky stuff then, so it's okay to do it now,' " said Arno Mayer, 81, a professor of European history at Princeton University.

When Peter Weiss, 82, went up to receive his award, he commandeered the microphone and gave his piece.

"I am deeply honored to be here, but I want to make it clear that my presence here is not in support of the current war," said Weiss, chairman of the Lawyers' Committee on Nuclear Policy and a human rights and trademark lawyer in New York City.

The veterans of P.O. Box 1142, a top-secret installation in Fairfax County that went only by its postal code name, were brought back to Fort Hunt by park rangers who are piecing together a portrait of what happened there during the war.

Nearly 4,000 prisoners of war, most of them German scientists and submariners, were brought in for questioning for days, even weeks, before their presence was reported to the Red Cross, a process that did not comply with the Geneva Conventions. Many of the interrogators were refugees from the Third Reich.

"We did it with a certain amount of respect and justice," said John Gunther Dean, 81, who became a career Foreign Service officer and ambassador to Denmark.

The interrogators had standards that remain a source of pride and honor.

"During the many interrogations, I never laid hands on anyone," said George Frenkel, 87, of Kensington. "We extracted information in a battle of the wits. I'm proud to say I never compromised my humanity."

Exactly what went on behind the barbed-wire fences of Fort Hunt has been a mystery that has lured amateur historians and curious neighbors for decades.

During the war, nearby residents watched buses with darkened windows roar toward the fort day and night. They couldn't have imagined that groundbreaking secrets in rocketry, microwave technology and submarine tactics were being peeled apart right on the grounds that are now a popular picnic area where moonbounces mushroom every weekend.

When Vincent Santucci arrived at the National Park Service's George Washington Memorial Parkway office as chief ranger four years ago, he asked his cultural resource specialist, Brandon Bies, to do some research so they could post signs throughout the park, explaining its history and giving it a bit more dignity.

That assignment changed dramatically when ranger Dana Dierkes was leading a tour of the park one day and someone told her about a rumored Fort Hunt veteran.

It was Fred Michel, who worked in engineering in Alexandria for 65 years, never telling his neighbors that he once faced off with prisoners and pried wartime secrets from them.

Michel directed them to other vets, and they remembered others.

Bies went from being a ranger researching mountains of topics in stacks of papers to flying across the country, camera and klieg lights in tow, to document the fading memories of veterans.

He, Santucci and others have spent hours trying to sharpen the focus of gauzy memories, coaxing complex details from men who swore on their generation's honor to never speak of the work they did at P.O. Box 1142.

"The National Park Service is committed to telling your story, and now it belongs to the nation," said David Vela, superintendent of the George Washington Memorial Parkway.

There is a deadline. Each day, about 1,100 World War II veterans die, said Jean Davis, spokeswoman for the U.S. Army's Freedom Team Salute program, which recognizes veterans and the parents, spouses and employers who provide support for active-duty soldiers.

By gathering at Fort Hunt yesterday, the quiet men could be saluted for the work they did so long ago.

bluestarultor 10-09-2007 01:05 PM

Good God! I knew Bush was doing this to American citizens, but now PEOPLE FROM FOREIGN COUNTRIES!!!? Words cannot express how wrong I feel this is.

I'm SO glad I worked for the Kerry campaign. :stressed:

Lord of Joshelplex 10-09-2007 01:20 PM

It wrong. Plain and simple. It is cruel and inhuman treatment, a tregedy of human rights. It is evil, and there are no excuses. This is on the same level of evil as the actual terrorist bombings.

Xaeta 10-09-2007 07:20 PM

that's funny....hahaha
I chuckle at their stupidity.

the "CIA's extraordinary redition program..." hahaha!
"A federal judge and then a U.S. appeals court dismissed the lawsuit because it threatened to expose government secrets, including how the CIA supervises its most sensitive intelligence operations." [National security and government secrets...wow...eventually they're gonna come out anyway, like now.]

Kim 10-09-2007 07:46 PM

Meh, I just don't even care anymore. It used to be kind of surprising to hear things like this, or to hear any of this shit... I don't think Kerry would've made a good president, but in the end, when was the last time we've ever seen someone who would. Anymore it's just, let's see who is least likely to fsck me over...

Anyway, back on topic. Pretty much everyone already knew, or at least assumed, that the CIA was doing this. And I am almost positive other countries have done the exact same thing. And, at least as far as I can tell, this is going to get a lot more publicity, and here's why. It involves scandal with a president that a lot of people don't seem to like. It involves the US, which means other countries are going to make it a much bigger deal than if some other country had done it. Why? Because I get the distinct impression that Europe never likes us, regardless of who the president is...

Anyways, my point with that is that this is going to become a much bigger scandal in the US than if it had involved a different president, and it is going to become a much bigger scandal outside of the US than if it had involved a different country. That doesn't make it right... I am in no way trying to justify anything.

Roy_D_Mylote 10-09-2007 09:13 PM

In the interest of answering Noncontradictory's first question, I think Gore would have been good.

Lady Cygnet 10-09-2007 10:47 PM

It's too bad that the US didn't stick with methods of interrogation that were actually effective, rather than just using prisoners as human heavy bags. It seems like it would be obvious that lulling someone into a false sense of security and manipulating his secrets out of him would get more information out of him than any other means of torture...unless they were to torture people that the prisoner cares about, such as his parents or children.

Then again, we are living in the twenty-first century, and there seems to be some reluctance in using non-violent means to extract information from a nation's alleged enemies. Meanwhile, the people in charge seem hell-bent on alienating every single ally the US has ever had at any point in time in history.

Funka Genocide 10-10-2007 02:03 AM

We need, change. I mean I think it's possible that things like this have occurred throughout our history, in fact it's highly likely, but something sets it on edge at this juncture in time. Everything is sensationalized and broadcast and we're all fucking paranoid about something.

the conservatives are worrying anout some sort of muslim jihad armageddon while the liberals are terrified of the realization of some big brother-esque organization. I mean fuck, it's like America is playing a game of "creep myself out by watching zombie movies alone in the dark" except shit, that knock on the door is likely to be an actual animated corpse hell bent on devouring your sweet, sweet innards.

I'm just sayin'

POS Industries 10-10-2007 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy_D_Mylote
In the interest of answering Noncontradictory's first question, I think Gore would have been good.

As would have either Kerry or McCain (2000 McCain, not the beaten former shell of the man currently running) would have done perfectly fine jobs, especially as far as the torture thing goes. Kerry's testimonies of the atrocities committed during the Vietnam War go a long way to show where he'd stand on the issue, I think, and McCain has been tortured and knows exactly how horrible and wrong it is.

Frankly, if the Supreme Court won't take the case, I'm pretty sure it's within Congress' power to hold hearings and at least use Masri's testimony to bring some official light to this case.

Kim 10-10-2007 04:52 AM

Yes, they wouldn't have agreed with the torture thing. That does not make them good presidents though. It just means they wouldn't support this atrocity.


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