Marines throw puppy over cliff
 

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=4384322

I saw this on the news yesterday, and I'm both shocked and disgusted at what these guys did. I know there isn't much to do in Iraq, and wild dogs are allowed to be shot...but this? This is just horrid. It's stuff like this that make me queston if humanity has no sense of values anymore. Add in the fact that they're Marines make it even worse. And I've heard some people call it fake. If you can find the video....you'll hear it yelping as it's thrown. And you can see it move.

I knew that gif from you-know-where wasn't photoshopped at all. It really makes me sad how juvenile some people in what is supposed to be the best military force in the world act. A life is something that should not be taken for the sake of a laugh.

I'm curious why you felt the need to post this.

This is clearly just a very sad event that has now depressed me and will continue to do so whenever I see a puppy. The is no real discussion involved, since it will just be agreements that these Marines are essentially not real people. I suppose it could be relevant if this were part of some discussion about loss of humanity or animal cruelty, but it was not.

I can only image that you just wanted to depress people. You even made the title short and summary of this horrible event, so it can be easily browsed upon. I felt a bit bad for posting this knowing it will cause the thread to be visible on the main page till new posts occur.

You even dash away the hope that it could be fake.

I've written several articles about this on other websites and blogs. Without cutting and pasting, I will just summarize my previous writings by saying that
1. The thrower of the puppy has been desensitized to the point where life means little or nothing to him,
2. The stark reality is that USMC training instills this in humans beings by training them to mercilessly kill other human beings to serve their function to the Republic,
3. I find it sad that the puppy died,
4. The only correct course of action will be to discipline that Marine,
5. I find all of American society to be full of hypocrisy that a puppy's death draws howls and outcries for mercy, yet the senseless slaughter of tens of thousands of Iraqi men, women, and children, as well as the deaths and maiming of thousands of American servicemembers, as well as the torture of unwanted 'Others' goes completely unnoticed for the 5th year now.
6. While that individual is represents the most desensitized person, he also represents our society which is so desensitized to the war(s) that we continue on with our hum-drum lives, unable or unwilling to stop them politically. We hate that Marine because he reminds us of ourselves. Shame on the USA.

the few, the proud, the what the fuck
 

Every time I hear anything about the USMC, they've killed, maimed, and/or raped something that they shouldn't have, for fun.

Sounds like a job for BETTER TRAINING.

@ Adamark: I was going to say, Marines get pretty whacked out from training. I've had the opportunity to wait on a serviceman who I later confirmed was a Marine. He did not come back human.

Also, the fact that his companion wasn't exactly offended indicates that it's not all that uncommon to have that level of dehumanization. People don't usually laugh at that kind of act. It really brings up the question of what the heck people are letting the government do to their children or selves and why it seems like a good idea.


@ Blues: They're trained exactly how the big guys want them to be. The fact that it's not something that fits into normal society is only a "problem" when it's an embarrassment to the people who made them that way. Otherwise, it's perfect for killing "appropriate" targets.

The article stated that the Marines in the video were in Hawaii, so in this case, any immoral act done to animals is a punishable offense.

I thought kicking puppies was bad. This takes the cake.

I mean, seriously. Messed up.

This is what happens when you take children fresh out of highschool and throw them into deadly situations that they don't have experience or mental training for.

Sure they are physically trained, no doubt. But I don't think there's any goddamn 18-22 year old in the world who can go from a comfortable life in highschool / summer vacation / bits of college to being shot at by people who hate them and some how come out with their mental faculties intact. At least not combat soldiers.

I agree with that point totally, but how to train people mentally? It seems hard to do, desensitizing a person, no problem, but getting a good middle ground is hard. I once saw a movie which addressed that very problem, I believe it was "Hunted" or something like that. It's about an ex special ops soldier who comes back from his behind lines duty quite fucked up. I don't want to ruin it should anyone choose to see it but I will put in this one quote "We spent so much time training them to kill people, we never thought about how to turn it off." I really recommend this movie to anyone who likes eit her action, or learning about the effects of PTS.

Of all the long litany of terrible shit that has happened in Iraq, I think I'm actually least offended by this.

This is only true to the extent that "American society" translates to "the tiny handful of people that get to pick what is broadcast on television news programs." Plenty of American society has been noticing and getting angry and protesting for a long time, in spite of the people who are purportedly supposed to tell us these things actively suppressing and trivializing them, which to my thinking speaks well of those parts of American society that do not comprise its corporate overlords and pay-masters.

It's just the General forum, "let's all be outraged together" is fine here. It's not like we get charged by the thread or anything.

Or if we do it's Brian who gets stuck with the bill. So that's all right.

Thats because the slaughter of people overseas is justified and rationalised by the government.

"But they had WMD's. Whoops, no they didn't. But you don't need to know that right away"

"But they have a dictator. Our leader is seen holding hands with about 10, but thats not whats important"

So, I really do agree with those of you who are saying that its ridiculous how many people freak out when an animal is getting kicked, but going into a war that serves no purpose and killing innocent people is just peachy.

This pisses me off almost as much as that video by those extremists about virginia tech.

As the proud granddaughter and niece of Marines, I'm appalled at all of the things that modern Marines have been caught doing. When I was younger, Marines were the epitome of everything that made the US military great. They were the men and women that we sent in when we wanted something done quickly, efficiently, and with as little harm to the civilian population as possible. Discipline was extremely tight, and if a marine stepped out of line or engaged in some harmful behavior against an innocent, be it human or animal, punishment was harsh and usually administrated by the marine's own unit, because no one wanted the offender to tarnish the unit's reputation. Sure, it was flawed and there were plenty of bigots (my grandpa was called "damned Indian" and my uncle was called "fucking Arab"), but bullshit like this seemed to have been much more rare.

To say that Marines come back from serving without their humanity, however, is wrong, at least for the Marines in my family. My grandpa was one of the first people on the beach at Okinawa during WWII, and until he (mercifully) developed Alzheimer's severe enough that his memories of the war faded, he was constantly haunted by the screams of the soldiers that he killed (he was one of the flamethrower men, but he also used rifles, handguns, bayonets, and even a straight razor when a Japanese soldier attacked him in his foxhole while he was shaving).

I am most definitely grateful for the advances that the US military has made, especially in the recognition, diagnosis, and treatment of mental illness (there's still a long way to go, but at least some people are starting to get treated for PSTD and the like), but it really seems like there's something going really wrong with modern soldiers. Perhaps that something has always been there, and I've just been lucky with my family's military experience (I've had aunts, uncles, cousins, and grandparents in the Marines, Army, Navy, and Coast Guard, snd so far, only my young Marine cousin has turned out to be a totally undisciplined dipshit). Maybe vehicles such as the Internet and cell phones are starting to call attention to the really bad apples in the military barrel who have been there all along.

As for the reason why Flare posted this, my guess is that she's ashamed that her fellow Marines would do something like that to anything innocent, much less a puppy.

Oh, and adamark, there are plenty of people who are outraged at the deaths of innocent civilians, be they Iraqi, Venezuelan, Sudanese, or even Polish. The US government just doesn't listen because continuing Bush's Iraqi adventure helps keep the price of oil nice and high so that they and their cronies can make huge profits off of the rest of us poor saps who don't have taxpayers paying our bills. Money talks, and those of us without any cannot and will not be heard.

I also think it's probably worthwhile to note here the huge lowering of recruiting standards that's gone on over the last six years. Shockingly the willingness of actually capable young people to sign up to serve has experienced a significant decline in the last few years so the military has started letting in a lot of people who previously would never have been permitted to serve including people who can't pass basic aptitude tests as well as those with criminal records or gang tattoos.

I don't know if this particularly relates to whatever person did this thing but it seems worth mentioning.

That is unfortunate, but it does explain a lot. My uncle Maury is probably spinning in his grave right now. He was a career Marine and proud of it. :(

I think this is a case of The Good Ol' Days. Not trying to speak for an entire generation, but war always brings the best and the worst of many people, no matter their origin or timeframe. Brutalities against Vietnamese during the seventies are pretty well-documented, for example. Especially during that time. I don't exactly remember the name of the event, but it was a televised report that showed how the Westerners killed their defeated enemies in Saigon without trial or chance for explaining themselves. If someone could help me in pointing this one out it could help a lot.

The Things They Carried by Tim O'Brien is very good at examining the psyche of soldiers who have become dehumanised by war. Totally recommend it.

marines have always been like this. I have several family members that served in vietnam, and they were more afraid of the marines deciding to shoot them for sport than they were of being killed by vietcong.

Now, as a webcrawler, I have seen far, far, far worse things done to cute animals, but it doesn't in the least bit desensitize me as each and every sight fills me with the equivalent amount of rage, pity, and disgust.

You'd think that being in a job where death is so frequent and so sudden, they'd have more appreciation for the fragility of life, not devalue it and toss it away like gold coins into the sea.

I suppose no matter how "civilized" the world becomes, once a man is handed a weapon and told that people have to die, the old instinct of becoming nothing more than a brute is inescapable.

Even in video games, the only animal I can bring myself to harm is a chicken and that's just to see them get divine retribution on my character en masse.

Tell that to Flare.


To several people, I submit the following:
I do get much more outraged at cruelty or murder toward animals than I do for the same to humans. I don't feel that animals can DESERVE death. Humans can...

But, that is a rant for another thread.


That dog is really cute...My dog just had puppies, so this kind of hits close to home for me. Its sickening.

I know what you mean, I breed them. About the same size too.

(Note: The Slimy tentacles of Cthulu are NOTHING like watching a dog give birth)

You know, I don't think it's real. Feel free to counter me on this, but I've watched this video several times, and watched for the exact things I'm about to mention and am decently sure the dog is false. If I'm wrong, well I'm wrong, I'm open to criticism, disproving, etc. etc.

a) For starters, the dog is incredibly clean for an iraqi dog. Now, I haven't been there, but I asked my cousin who got back several months ago, and he said dogs are usually extremely dirty around those parts. Note the dog is white...with like no dirt on it at all. That's strange to me.

b) The dog isn't moving. This is the real killer for me. I know a decent amount of you have pets. No matter how much your pet trusts you, if you pick it up by the scruff of its neck, it will squirm or move. The legs will flail, looking for ground. The body will try to turn a little bit, trying to find the ground. Anything - the dog will NOT remain perfectly still. If you watch the video, the dog does not move even once. Not the head, nor feet, nor body, nor tail, nor nothing! Furthermore, when he winds up to launch it, the dog is in such a strange position, it's in EXACTLY the same position before, and it's upside down. Dogs do NOT behave that way!

c) The yelping stays the same pitch as the dog goes flying. By the doppeler effect, the dog's pitch should decrease, and the volume should drop. The volume and pitch both stay exactly the same - a physical impossibility.

Regardless of whether the dog was real or not, this is a pretty sick thing to do. As an animal lover, I'm simply astounded by this. I would, however, like to caution people before suggesting this man be fired, killed, tried etc. etc. (i've seen some strange comments on youtube at least). He is a marine, we do not know the backstory...perhaps he was bitten by a dog and was severely wounded and has a supreme dislike of dogs. Perhaps the overwhelming dog population in Iraq (the number of strays in Iraq is absurdly high.) and decided to vent. In any case, while it may not excuse his irresponsible action, I'd suggest waiting for the full story before condemning this man. When it comes down to it, when someone attacks you, the dog is not going to protect you. The marine, regardless of how inhuman he is, will.

Note that I am disgusted by this, especially if it's real. This video makes me want to hug my kitty, but I'm far away from it. :( STupid college.

(I do believe it's fake though. Even if it's fake, this video is in very poor taste.)

[edit: This may be out of poor taste itself, but I found this comment very funny. One of my friends turned to me after the video and said: "Would anyone have cared if he threw a squid?". I laughed for a solid five minutes. I'm curious, in all honesty, how many of you would have cared if it was a squid? At best, I'd assume 2-3 of you would care, out of a population of like a hundred. Just think about that...that's sad.]

The best cure for this is to give moral support to the marines that we know, and cherish the ones we absolutely know will never do any puppy hurling.

Go Flare! You are the sole basis of my respect for the military, as the only other person I know who went off to be in the navy ended up taking my hat, decided to join the airforce, and then pulled a part time job in Florida as a security guard for concerts.

Never gave back my hat, but I'm sure that if you borrowed my hat, you'd have probably returned it.

...Are people not paying attention? It says he was believed to be based in Hawaii.

Edit: Damn Pyros and his ninja-y ways, but I agree. *hugs Flare*

Of course this is disturbing. Many of us here are rational, well-adjusted if slightly socially awkward semi-introverts with typically a full range of human emotion and everyday problems.

The training Marines actually go through is a whole 'nother ballpark, however. Aside from the intense physical standard required, some of the other methods have to have a psychological impact. Just heard from a friend still training for, as he described it, being "a grunt with bombs". One of the exercises, from what I gathered from the conversation, was that they were plopped down in the middle of Forest, Nowhere with some supplies and told "We'll see you in seven days." That's the tip of the iceberg. These guys are trained to shoot, maim, kill, dismember, explode, impale, stab, torch, and generally shuffle off the mortal coil whoever their superiors point them at, and do it with remarkable efficiency. These are no everyday skillsets, nor ones typically assosciated with empathy. It makes sense that while there are some (Flare, relatives referenced in thread, relatives of my own) that can withstand being turned into Terminator while retaining relative emotional standards, others with significantly less empathetic fortitude might not.

Not saying it's right by any means, however much I happen to hate dogs. Just saying when you train people to become killthings, some are going to be intelligent about it and some aren't. It's appalling, but I'm not really sure how anyone could be surprised.


Edit: Also, most probably wouldn't care if it was a squid. Probably because dogs are companions around these parts. I'm sure the Squid-Riders of the midatlantic probably wouldn't care if it was a dog, you sick squidkilling bastards.

EditEdit: I'd have thrown a squid.

It's in Hawaii.


No, the puppy bunches its legs closer towards the beginning. Also, having owned many cats and kittens over the years, I can tell you that cats, at least, freeze up when held by the scruff. It's a natural reaction to PREVENT harm, as that's how the mothers carry them, and it doesn't do for them to flail and get hurt.


You're hearing echoes, from what I can tell. I'm in class right now, but when I watched it, it sounded very much like echoes, which are trickier to calculate the Doppler effect on than open-air noise. Also, the Doppler effect is most easily applied to a long, constant sound, which short yaps aren't.

Throwing the squid is at least less painful than putting it upside down under the light of the sun and waiting until it dies, I have to say.

Squids aren't cute. Lots of people eat squid. Squids are invertebrates (unless I'm very mistaken). We can't find a whole lot to like about them, and they're slimy and gross.

Puppies, on the other hand, are cute and fluffy. They are also young animals, which we, from an early age, are trained to adore and protect - not even counting all of those instances of people being referred to as "evil enough to kill puppies/kittens". Humans also have a LONG history with canines, and dogs are known to be some of the most loyal animals around. For some of us, it's like watching someone throwing our best friend, or a family member off of a cliff.

I, personally, hope to any and all religious figures that the video was fake. If it was real, the marines should be discharged, fined and... I dunno, punished in some other way. If it was fake, they should be given a stern talking-to and 200 pushups.

At the very least, they should say whether it was real or not, and if it was fake they should make every effort to prove it.

Lots of people in Korea eat puppies though.

My problem with this is not about a puppy being killed, but about a puppy being killed not for food or self-defence, but rather to laugh at the situation. The fact that these people take advantage of an innocent without any purpose makes you wonder how do they treat those individuals they consider "their inferiors", be it human or other species.

:gonk: I was not aware of this!!

Could be just a cultural thing, but I don't see why anyone would WANT to eat a puppy. And yes, I realize the irony; I eat hamburgers like many other North Americans, when the cow is sacred in India...

....I'd still trade Starcraft skills for a live puppy any day.

Actually, I believe Koreans wait until the dogs are full grown to eat them. It makes more meat that way. But thats just speculation.

At any rate, it really does make me wonder if the mental abuse marines endure during training really does train soldiers instead of just brainwashing them.

Okay, this is a page back or so, but I wanted to respond:

[generalizing] I think it's because humans have a choice in the matter, for the most part. In Iraq, for example, the marines volunteered to fight (Because we don't have the draft, right?), and the groups making the IED's and such want to fight for whatever it is they want to fight for (religion, pushing out the 'invaders', etc.) The animals, however, can't really say anything or do anything against being abused or fought. I don't want it to be worded this way at all, but in a few words it could be said the dogs are "inferior", in that it would be very easy for a human to abuse/kill/harass a dog, while the opposite isn't true.[/generalizing]

Also, When I browsed over this story on FARK yesterday I think I heard that the marines were based in Hawaii (as has already been clarified a few times), and that yes, the proper authorities are taking action. Wheher or not the proper punishment is given is another story.

Also also, I know of someone that's in the national guard and he voices pretty much the same thing that Fifthfeind said; standards have been dropped signifigantly, to where anybody could join. This probably came from Bush's saying "we will not have a draft," thing I'm guessing.

Whoah, now I'm not saying that killing animals is ignorable because humans are dying, I just think that holding it in that light is ridiculous because the sick mind of these two marines has killed one dog, as opposed to the political folly of various leaders involved in the current war (and wars before it) which has led to the devastation of scores of innocent people. I'm not saying the marines have much choice in the people they kill once they go to war, but the politicians that fought so hard to make the war happened sure did.

Okay, okay. BETTER AND DIFFERENT TRAINING. There's no way to eliminate every problem, but they could certainly cut them back by taking care of their their people properly. Some folks have mentioned that marines are trained to kill and that that is their job, so of coruse they're killing things. But doing it wrong or for fun means they're uncontrolled and their training is inadequate in some way.

Like others have said, there seems to be a lack of quality people in the organization today. In fact, it's my established opinion, backed up damn near every time I walk outside, that there is a lack of quality people in general. People may always have been dicks but at least they weren't as in your face about it. Sometimes.

American soldiers are so bored that they,re willing to turn to the dark side for some entertainment =(

SAVE OUR TROOP'S SANITY!! NUKE THE MIDDLE EAST!!

(btw that was a joke)

Whatever.

Puppies are cute, yahoo. It's bad taste and a bit messed in the head to toss one off a cliff, and as far as animal cruelty laws go I'm sure that if it were true they'd be in violation of more than a few, but that's not enough to get someone kicked out of the military.

In short, I'm not outraged, in fact I don't care. One dog's life doesn't mean anything to me, far less when compared to the loss of thousands of human lives on both sides.

Hypocritical, reactionary, and pointless, that's what I'd call the backlash for this display. Would I have tossed a puppy off a cliff? Hell no, that's mean. But am I going to sit here and pretend to have a crisis of conscience when some jar head does? No.

Wow, thank you for putting into words what I've been trying to say since I saw this thread. I appreciate you keeping me from sounding like an ass.

From LJ Metaquote:

It's sad that some people care more about animals than they do about humans, but it's easier to care about something cute and fuzzy and marginally obedient than it is to care about someone who may be ugly, hairy, and has his or her own opinions, thoughts, and dreams. There ought to be room in the world for people to care and be upset every time any innocent creature, be it human or animal, is killed, maimed, or tortured for another creature's amusement.

"One death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic."


I think that pretty much sums it up. People would probably feel the same way, or at least similarly/maybe on a different level, if they saw a marine do the same thing to an Iraqi, provided they had a story for said person. A puppy is easy to make a story for in your mind. If, say, the following happened:



"No! Please! Don't throw me! I have a wife and three kids, a mortgage I'm on the verge of paying off, I was on my way to deliver medicine to my sick mother-!"

"Awwww! Ain't he cute?"

"No! HowaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!"

*thud*




people would probably still take offense.

hmmm
 

I somewhat agree with Lady Cygnet, but in general, I actually think the fact that people are so troubled by this is that a puppy is getting thrown off a cliff. The media overplays the fact that they are Marines, people would care just as much if it was Joe from down the lane. They just wouldn't know about it cause the media picks and chooses to create controversy, and thus, create ratings.
The only thing this proves about Marines is that they aren't psychicly tuned into the jerk-ass wave lengths of someones mind. I wouldn't have seen that coming.
As for why its so bad? A puppy is like a baby, totally innocent. I gaurentee that whether or not it was a Marine or not, a cell phone video of someone throwing a baby off a cliff would get even more media coverage.

Supposing the video is real in the first place.

It was real, he says he did it because it was sick and going to die.

I don't care if it was sick or not, it's just a stupid puppy.

There are plenty of more humane ways to kill a dog, other than throwing it off a cliff. Am I going to get worked up over one death of a dog and get on a soap box and preach? No. I only think this is a wake up call for a few people. Sad that they ignore the thousands of Iraqis dying and American soldiers dying yet see a puppies death as tragic. All I see it as is letting those who ignore the death of a human, perhaps, notice their irony.
One last thing, I must really agree with this quote though: "One death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic." It rings so true.

It is true. The human mind is only equipped to handle so much. That's why things like the Wall are so mind-blowing. To actually have more than your brain can handle set visually out in front of you gives you a strange, vague notion of "a lot." As it keeps going, you get multiples of "a lot" until you reach "wow," and finally a literal mind-numbing/weird zen-ish-zone-ish feeling. If people have that shoved in front of them, the number gets meaning. Not full comprehension, but meaning.

Yeah, he said they usually shoot them but he was tired of it and wanted to try something different.

I'll admit, I don't care how the dog died. It was mean, yeah, but nothing that would warrant more than what his buddy said to him. Like you touched on however, I am genuinely upset about all the people talking about it as a horrible tragedy.

Do you have any idea how many puppies I would toss off a cliff to bring back one Iraqi or US soldier?

Because the answer is all of them.


I would kill all the puppies.

Yes, but at least those Iraqis and Marines at least have a concept of why they're going to die/dying. They possess the mental faculties to understand why someone is going to kill them. Animals only understand sickness and predation. They are incapable of understanding why these humans are throwing them off a cliff. All they know is that something is killing them for some unfathomable reason.

To me, that seems slightly more wrong than, "Oh, well this person who thinks I'm some kind of manifestation of the devil planted a crude explosive to kill me because he thinks it will somehow return control of this country to him and those who think like him."



Also, DFM? Sigged so hard, and entirely out of context.

YES DARTH SS.

I hate to say this but you may be the only other person in this forum that tends to get the concept that humans aren't the only thing to die. Like I said before, this is war, people are expected to kill and be killed, hell if that puppy was trying to maul the soldiers face off go ahead and kick him off the cliff.

But war does not and will never justify being an a**hole, take Hitler for example.
He was an a**hole, so evreyone hates him (except other a**holes).

However, obviously, that soldier was an AMERICAN a**hole, so it makes it alright.

People are freaking because a soldier mercilessly killed somthing that didn't need to be killed, then proceeded to laugh and post it on his myspace. I would be equally pissed if someone decided that sticking a firecracker in a toad was funny, and alright, then posted it on youtube.

Okay, so if I read this right you're saying that it's a-okay hunky dory that people are busy spending their day murdering and being murdered because it's "war", but a puppy is innocent and doesn't understand why you're killing it and that makes it worse than the deaths of actual people?

Jesus Christ dude, I don't care if people have a vague idea why they're dying, mourning the death of a puppy over them is pretty fucked up.

I don't even know how to take this, murder is justified in war but being asshole isn't?

You're right, that's totally what's going on!

Dog was going to die a slow, painful death so actually this isn't exactly correct if what he's saying is true.

Why does it make you so angry? It's cruel and I wouldn't exactly want to hang around people who blow up toads for a laugh but I can't see getting outraged about it.

Sorry, I apologize, didnt get nearly enough sleep last night and woke up angry. I can't remember what set me off, but I think it was actually last weeks philosophy club at my school.
Sorry, if I offended you.

However, I don't think you fully read my post.

Edit: to make perfect sense for you Ill respond to ecrey point you've made.

1) No, I'm not saying death is right, the war is right, or anything like that. I'm saying that A: It's still war, people are expected to die. A war without anyone dying is a Cold War. Big diff. I'm also not saying I'm even mourning the death of the puppy. I think It's sick that someone would do that. Even if the puppy was supposedly sick. Shoot it! Break it neck!
2) Did you completely ignore my referance? You did, didn't you? So your saying that killing millions of completely innocent civilians is more justified than killing someone that is trying to kill you?
3) Was a response to your guys defence of the man and another try to put my whole point in.
4) Look up sniper shot! No seriously look it up! My friends dad decided to show us a clip of a Iraqi soldier being shot in the head by a sniper! He LAUGHED! I almost walked into the bathroom and threw up! Why doesn't that get on TV, why isn't it a big thing? Because we don't ever, EVER, want to see it. We are ignoring that this stuff happens. The point is that a puppy is something people can handle?

And my final points? Wasn't the soldier based in hawaii? Thats what they said, and medicine isn't exactly non-exsistant there. Even if he was based in Iraq, the mear fact that he got bored of putting down puppies so decided to try something new, why do you defend this man! You don't get BORED of putting down puppies! Then his friend films it and puts it on myspace! Am I the only person to see this man as souless?

Don't worry, I did.

Well then read my edit, and please actually keep an open mind.

Edit: Oh and the other point that I forgot. He could, you know, lie. It's a childs defence mecanism, and right now this man seems more than childish enough to use it.

I just can't comprehend that in the middle of a war with so many people dying you even care about a dog. Even if it was just sitting there, and he killed it for no reason, it shouldn't even be a footnote in the media or the world psyche.


I'll admit I have no idea what you're trying to say. You sound like you're equating the death of a puppy with the murder of eight million innocent people but I know that can't be right.

But now you're talking about genocide being more justified than self defense and I honestly have no idea where that came from or what you're talking about.

When did I say anything about him being American?

Rationalizing the moral indignation about a puppy being murdered in the middle of a warzone doesn't make it any less disgusting. The moral indignation, I mean.

The news article says he was stationed in Iraq, and that's where he's said he's stationed. I don't really know how Hawaii came up, actually. The dog was going to die anyway and he wanted to do something so over the top it'd be funny. It doesn't come across as funny, granted, but that was the intent.

And he's soulless now, because he killed a dog? Jesus Christ.

And the lying thing, yes, it is entirely possible that he's lying to save face, but that was the reason he gave for his actions.

This is where the Hawaii thing came from.

I'll be damned, I read one line then miss another.

Alright, I will solumnly agree that me and DFM have absolutaly no idea what each other are talking about. Thus that entire argument was very much in vain, I'm sorry DFM for not having any idea what that arguement was about.

I hope we can still be uber-super-special-awesome-friendship-circle-time-happy-bunny friends

Or, you know, just fellow human beings with a general respect for each other.

I'm personally good with either.

I agree with DFM. Considering there is a war going on, with casualties on both sides, I dont really care about the puppy. I'd care more about the people getting shot.

Furthermore, I sincerely doubt that the training made this marin do this. He was probably like this before. I think people are over blowing things with this whole "MILLITARY MAKES YOU EMOTIONLESS HARBRINGER OF DEATH!!!!!!!!!" shtick.

Furthermore: Says you.