The Warring States of NPF

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Squall Leonhart 04-21-2008 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megaman FTW
[...]
EDIT: The nerf was NOT a nice start! I never picked up Shiek until Brawl, but looking at her stuff in melee its sad that she was nerfed so hard! She only has 1 finisher! Now I'm going to be expected to be 'strategic' or, do this 'change to Zelda' nonsense.

That was the original intention of the character all along.

Mirai Gen 04-21-2008 01:15 PM

Zelda's got phenomenal finishers, and a few nice damage rackers. Sheik has a few nice finishers and phenomenal damage rackers.

Her Brawl incarnation is less of a big ol steaming pile of bullshit and it's nice to see the actual intent of the character being played out.

POS Industries 04-21-2008 01:36 PM

Still, I can't help but feel sometimes that I wish Zelda just had a regular Down+B. Melee Sheik players probably felt the same way, though.

Mirai Gen 04-21-2008 03:21 PM

I've wished they would split Shiek and Zelda for a long time. Once the "Hey this is cool" factor of the Transform goes away you're left with two different characters that function pretty well by themselves without the Transform time. Very few people actually use them both interchangeably anyway.

Plus Zelda is wonderful by herself, though the shortened length on the Toe really hurts.

Regulus Tera 04-21-2008 03:53 PM

I've come to the conclusion that Pikmin & Olimar will end up being High Tier.

Olimar is amazing, easily one of the best characters in the game, though he is definitely beatable and has his flaws. (Worst recovery in the game. :( Watch out for situations where you can be edge-guarded or you will be vaporised.)

First of all, you should have close to (if not) the maximum amount of Pikmin at all times. Learn to spam that B button fast the millisecond you hit the ground if you need pikmin. Get creative about it if your opponent is offensive (for example, you can shield roll, hit B real fast for a single pluck or two, shield roll again).

Many people new to Olimar might find his down-B worthless, but in actuality it is very key to becoming a good Olimar player. Down-B has multiple uses:
  • It calls all of your pikmin to you despite their distance. Often times when you throw Pikmin and miss, they will take much longer to waltz back to you if you do not use down-B. Or maybe they will get stuck, or whatever the situation is: if joo need yur pikmin back, ya gotta down-B, son! If you get knocked from the ledge, MAKE SURE YOU DOWN-B while in the air. Sometimes pikmin will be fairly close to you and you'll assume they are in line, but when you go to use your Up-B to recover you'll often find not all of them will add to the chain (unless of course you hit down-b!).
  • It allows you to order your Pikmin. Pikmin are ordered by color (like-colors will group up next to eachother) and every time you hit down-b you'll switch to the next color in the line. So if you have a line of: Blue, Blue, Yellow, Red, Red, White, your first down b would switch from blue to yellow. Second would switch from yellow to red. Third down-b would switch to white.
  • It gives you super armor (you'll take no knockback) for a split second when you use it. This is an advanced technique.

In addition to your Pikmin changing order when you use down-b, they also switch places upon ANY MOVE THAT USES PIKMIN (with the sole exception of up-B). That means if you use an aerial or a smash, for example, the pikmin you used goes back to the line.

Different colored Pikmin have different properties, hence the importance of switching. Red and yellow are best for your aerials and just good all around. White are best when thrown (side-B) as they do a ton of damage when latched on. Blues and purples are best for smashes (try forward smash with purple or up smash with blue) and blues are also amazing for back-throws (like OH MY GOD SO FUCKING GOOD).

Take advantage of Olimar's range. He has an AMAZING grab game. Grab and throw often. Get used to the range of his smashes and the timing of aerials. Just practice, practice, practice. Olimar has nice tilts as well. Variety is key, because while Olimar seems really unpredictable at first to new opponents (solely because of how unorthodox his moveset and gameplay are) he can become predictable to more experienced players.

With Olimar's forward-B, keep in mind that it's not just for applying damage! It's also a great distraction and pressuring technique. Plus, remember that purple Pikmin do knockback when thrown. Get used to the trajectories and throwing speeds for the different colored pikmin as well.

Oh, one last tip: Constantly move around so that you can quickly glance at the order of your chain. If you're staying stationary your pikmin will bunch up and you'll have no idea which one comes next. Knowing how many down-Bs it takes to get to the pikmin you want at all times will make you stand out among other Olimar players. Remember to account for the first down-B that needs to be used to order your pikmin, if you have an un-ordered group.

Final summary: Make good use of your forward-B to build up damage on the other player (and to interrupt and pressure them), but do not rely on it solely (ALL of Olimar's attacks are amazing, don't just spam one type!) and use it much less as they get higher on damage. Once you've built them up high in percent, that is when using specific pikmin colors is most important, because you'll need the right Pikmin to finish the job. Again, practice will make you familiar with what to do and when, but these are the basics.

Loyal 04-21-2008 04:40 PM

Quote:

(Worst recovery in the game. Watch out for situations where you can be edge-guarded or you will be vaporised.)
Ivysaur would like to have a word with you.

Regulus Tera 04-21-2008 04:47 PM

Ivysaur can always change to Charizard if you see his damage is getting dangerous. Olimar's only way to circumvent this problem is to throw a Purple Pikmin really quick to push the opponent from the ledge, which is a problem seeing Purple Pikmin are rare.

Pip Boy 04-21-2008 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackHBMage
That was the original intention of the character all along.

I was exaggerating my expectation as a form of light sarcasm. Similar to
Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Mage
Like hell I'm not going to use my AC.

The only difference is that unlike Red Mage, I don't totally and completely mean it. Nonetheless, I am getting somewhat better at Shiek-only K.O.'s. I have to get her down alone simply as a matter of necessity, the transformation leaves you so vulnerable to attack that much of the time transforming is just impossible without risking death. I've even tried crazy stuff like jumping off the level, transforming, and jumping back on. It seems like I may actually be able to get it to work.

POS Industries 04-21-2008 08:23 PM

While I think the Zelda/Sheik transformation idea is neat and was certainly great for the Melee version as it was in fact the same character from the same game, but at this point it's Twilight Princess Zelda transforming into Ocarina of Time Sheik and it's a bit contextually off.

But I don't mind that much. I've managed to train my "accidentally transform into Sheik" rate down drastically. Now it's just a matter of making sure I don't Farore's Wind when I want to Din's Fire or Din's Fire when I want to Naryu's Love, not to mention getting a good handle at milking Farore's Wind for all it's worth.

On a related note, I'm under the impression that Mirai and I are going to have to eventually throw down for Zelda supremacy sometime. Should be fun.

Pip Boy 04-21-2008 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by POS Industries
While I think the Zelda/Sheik transformation idea is neat and was certainly great for the Melee version as it was in fact the same character from the same game, but at this point it's Twilight Princess Zelda transforming into Ocarina of Time Sheik and it's a bit contextually off.

But I don't mind that much. I've managed to train my "accidentally transform into Sheik" rate down drastically. Now it's just a matter of making sure I don't Farore's Wind when I want to Din's Fire or Din's Fire when I want to Naryu's Love, not to mention getting a good handle at milking Farore's Wind for all it's worth.

On a related note, I'm under the impression that Mirai and I are going to have to eventually throw down for Zelda supremacy sometime. Should be fun.

No offense, but the way you make it sound, supremacy might be a ways off...

Clearly the only way to solve this is with a dance off- err, battle.

Oh well, with the rediculously odd way I play, they might as well be the same.


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