I discovered something about myself today.

I rule with Bowser, or at least when there's no shitty Wifi lag to screw me up.

It was probably someone from Nintendo of America saying that no inapropriate pictures would be used. Obviously, it's a different story in Japan.

Obviously. I mean, c'mon. Look at the tentacles.

Also, Cruel Brawl. Eeeeeeeeeeeevil.

Cruel Brawl is less evil if you cheat.

I mean, I don't like cheating, but something about playing Ike, dropping off the edge, up B so the spinning sword hits them, and then catching the ledge and repeating seems cheap.

The way I see it, if it's legal vs human players, it's good enough for AI.

Also, is there any way to more easily distribute things like snapshots and replays? The "submit one a day" seems less reliable and less focused on what I need to do.

And something about those asshole alloys having insane knockback and those stupid green ones that just refuse to die seems pretty cheap. Cruel Brawl isn't a test of skill, or I haven't just met/seen any of the players with the unnatural amount required. Exploiting the AI's faults seems to be just about the one and only way it can be competently accomplished, and even that requires some modicum of luck evidently.


I noticed if you push up while shielding the character/shield moves. What's that about? I don't have tap jump on, so I'm not certain if that makes a difference.

I'm not sure either, but it did it to a lesser extent in Melee too. If you weren't rolling you could bring the shield up in front of/behind/above the character. I'm not sure why, but it could be used to block an attack slightly earlier, thereby allowing you to counterattack or shieldgrab.

But that's kind of splitting hairs. Sakurai put it in; I don't know why, but he did.

It was meant to help protect characters who either had inconvenient body proportions that allowed them to be attacked THROUGH the shield (such as G&W), or whose shields were diminished and needed to cover a specific part.

Well I was about to upload all that porn that he included in the game, but since he didn't like the idea of showing how detailed Peach's panties are, I'd just like to ask:

Why the hell do you add so much fucking details?

Well if you'd remember, I'm pretty sure that in Melee Peach had no knees or thighs.

Like, none, it was a dress and shins and feet and that was it. And people complained. So, he fixed it.

I do remember her having some shorts under the dress in Melee, I'm quite certain of that.

Walked into that one.

Must have been Double Dash then.

No, she did have the shorts (granny panties), though I suppose there was no real leg detailing.

Also, how're you guys posting your screenshots? And for that matter, how are you moving them from the game to your computer? I tried storing them on my memory card and uploading them from there but it was a no go.

Brawl rules!

Actually she was wearing what looks like her Mario tennis suit under her dress in Melee, you could see it if you used an AR cheat to turn on debug mode.

Or, y'know, you could've just knocked her flying and paused at the opportune moment.

In the effort to keep this from being Goddamn Super Peach's Panties followed by lots of words we really don't need to put into a thread title, I'd like to add to the discussion;

Does anyone think at all that the game caters more towards slower characters as opposed to fast? I've noticed it a bit. It was nice to have the game center further away from Peach and Shiek and Marth, but I'm wondering if it's overshot and ended up further towards the Heavy Guys. I only mention because it seems like Ike is a hugely strong competitor.

Also, I know it's Melee, but it's on the subject;

I don't think it's too bent towards slower characters. They've gotten a boost in this game for sure, since the general pace is slower, but they still seem to be fighting an uphill battle against the faster guys, especially in FFAs.

One thing I tried recently after Challenge unlocking all day; Heavy Gravity special brawl.

Wow, I can see why the tournament players want to make it standard. I originally mocked the idea, but having played several matches - mostly Fox and Shiek and Marth test runs followed by Marth vs Bowser - I can see that it's not nearly as scrubby as I thought it was.

It's strange - the gravity increase does make the gameplay faster. Strangely, though, the game isn't completely aligned towards the Top Three, actually giving the other contestants like Bowser and Ganondorf and hell even Kirby a better chance.

If you think that Brawl goes a bit slow, or you just want to see what Brawl would be like if it was more like Melee, do a High Gravity Brawl. It's surprisingly fun.

NOTE: This post was brought to you by a tournament-style player.

Well, the slower characters have typically always had a lot more power behind them, and with the game rebalanced to make them more competitive, the fact that they hit like a truck is much more apparent.

But you may be right. I'm finding Sheik to be nigh-useless when compared to Zelda (whose babies I now want to have), for instance.

Last DOJO! update and the last bit of Smash trivia. Enjoy.


I will miss all those times F5ing the page. Brawl's been the trip of a lifetime.

Mind = BLOWN

So Lucario is the epitome of Nintendo's rubberbanding strategy in competitive games?

IIRC, they considered banning Mushroomy Kingdom specifically because it MIGHT end up as 1-2. This may just change that.
DAMNIT!

Wiiware content. Calling it now.

What's wrong with 1-2? The ceiling?

Probably. Might also have to do with all the walls to bounce off of, which were an issue in stage picking for Melee as well.

[EDIT]: It looks like you can do some pretty cool stuff with the stage creator after all, if you're so creatively inclined.

probably the fact that Kirby's Uthrow can teleport to the ceiling for a nigh-guaranteed kill. Possibly also MK, but definitely Kirby can do this.

MK is stopped by ceilings. He does not rise to the heavens like Kirby if there's something in the way.

I've been messing with the items screen lately. I've discovered a new and exciting way to play. Limit your items to only bumpers. Then change the drop rate to "high." Hilarity and awesomeness ensues.

Smoke bombs and sandbags on high on Final Destination is awesome too.

Saw this on Smashboards and I had to share:

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...de279/knee.gif

Cheaper than Bowsercide

Oddly, not a glitch, though it will probably only be useful in 2v2

I don't think you can C4 someone when they're on your team, so it's not even useful then.

What'd be more interesting is if you C4 the opponent and Metaknight throws.

You can if you play by tournament rules. Then Friendly Fire is on.

Ok, I remember one of these threads having a comic where Kirby made Soylent Mario. Anyone know where it is, and if it's not just a one-shot?

Also Zero Samus actually looks suspiciously like Winry Rockbell. :sweatdrop

If you didn't notice, the C4 transfered from Meta knight to the opponet

Does it work like the sticky bomb during a grab? Because I saw in that video that all three of them - Snake, Metaknight, and the guy he grabbed - were all on different teams. (Yellow Blue and Red)

Hence where I was like "I don't see how that would help."

EDIT: Also, seriously, I just finished beating the entire All Star mode and getting all of the Final Smash Trophies for everyone...and I didn't get the "Get All Final Smash Trophies" challenge. What gives?

Did you get all of the separate Zelda, Shiek, Samus, and ZSS trophies?

And does P. Trainer have only one or do they have individual Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard trophies?

Damn it, right, Shiek. I forgot Shiek.

After all the nightmare she was in Melee I was kind of hoping that I could just forget about her.

The nerf was a nice start though.

EDIT: Also, I think that for Final Smash it's just Pokemon Trainer.

Pokemon trainer needs only one Final Smash trophy because they have only one final smash that is the same regardless of which you are using at the time. However, Samus and Zero suit samus have completely different final smashes and Shiek and Zelda have different (although similar) versions of the same move.

EDIT: The nerf was NOT a nice start! I never picked up Shiek until Brawl, but looking at her stuff in melee its sad that she was nerfed so hard! She only has 1 finisher! Now I'm going to be expected to be 'strategic' or, do this 'change to Zelda' nonsense.

That was the original intention of the character all along.

Zelda's got phenomenal finishers, and a few nice damage rackers. Sheik has a few nice finishers and phenomenal damage rackers.

Her Brawl incarnation is less of a big ol steaming pile of bullshit and it's nice to see the actual intent of the character being played out.

Still, I can't help but feel sometimes that I wish Zelda just had a regular Down+B. Melee Sheik players probably felt the same way, though.

I've wished they would split Shiek and Zelda for a long time. Once the "Hey this is cool" factor of the Transform goes away you're left with two different characters that function pretty well by themselves without the Transform time. Very few people actually use them both interchangeably anyway.

Plus Zelda is wonderful by herself, though the shortened length on the Toe really hurts.

I've come to the conclusion that Pikmin & Olimar will end up being High Tier.

Olimar is amazing, easily one of the best characters in the game, though he is definitely beatable and has his flaws. (Worst recovery in the game. :( Watch out for situations where you can be edge-guarded or you will be vaporised.)

First of all, you should have close to (if not) the maximum amount of Pikmin at all times. Learn to spam that B button fast the millisecond you hit the ground if you need pikmin. Get creative about it if your opponent is offensive (for example, you can shield roll, hit B real fast for a single pluck or two, shield roll again).

Many people new to Olimar might find his down-B worthless, but in actuality it is very key to becoming a good Olimar player. Down-B has multiple uses:

• It calls all of your pikmin to you despite their distance. Often times when you throw Pikmin and miss, they will take much longer to waltz back to you if you do not use down-B. Or maybe they will get stuck, or whatever the situation is: if joo need yur pikmin back, ya gotta down-B, son! If you get knocked from the ledge, MAKE SURE YOU DOWN-B while in the air. Sometimes pikmin will be fairly close to you and you'll assume they are in line, but when you go to use your Up-B to recover you'll often find not all of them will add to the chain (unless of course you hit down-b!).
  
• It allows you to order your Pikmin. Pikmin are ordered by color (like-colors will group up next to eachother) and every time you hit down-b you'll switch to the next color in the line. So if you have a line of: Blue, Blue, Yellow, Red, Red, White, your first down b would switch from blue to yellow. Second would switch from yellow to red. Third down-b would switch to white.
  
• It gives you super armor (you'll take no knockback) for a split second when you use it. This is an advanced technique.

In addition to your Pikmin changing order when you use down-b, they also switch places upon ANY MOVE THAT USES PIKMIN (with the sole exception of up-B). That means if you use an aerial or a smash, for example, the pikmin you used goes back to the line.

Different colored Pikmin have different properties, hence the importance of switching. Red and yellow are best for your aerials and just good all around. White are best when thrown (side-B) as they do a ton of damage when latched on. Blues and purples are best for smashes (try forward smash with purple or up smash with blue) and blues are also amazing for back-throws (like OH MY GOD SO FUCKING GOOD).

Take advantage of Olimar's range. He has an AMAZING grab game. Grab and throw often. Get used to the range of his smashes and the timing of aerials. Just practice, practice, practice. Olimar has nice tilts as well. Variety is key, because while Olimar seems really unpredictable at first to new opponents (solely because of how unorthodox his moveset and gameplay are) he can become predictable to more experienced players.

With Olimar's forward-B, keep in mind that it's not just for applying damage! It's also a great distraction and pressuring technique. Plus, remember that purple Pikmin do knockback when thrown. Get used to the trajectories and throwing speeds for the different colored pikmin as well.

Oh, one last tip: Constantly move around so that you can quickly glance at the order of your chain. If you're staying stationary your pikmin will bunch up and you'll have no idea which one comes next. Knowing how many down-Bs it takes to get to the pikmin you want at all times will make you stand out among other Olimar players. Remember to account for the first down-B that needs to be used to order your pikmin, if you have an un-ordered group.

Final summary: Make good use of your forward-B to build up damage on the other player (and to interrupt and pressure them), but do not rely on it solely (ALL of Olimar's attacks are amazing, don't just spam one type!) and use it much less as they get higher on damage. Once you've built them up high in percent, that is when using specific pikmin colors is most important, because you'll need the right Pikmin to finish the job. Again, practice will make you familiar with what to do and when, but these are the basics.

Ivysaur would like to have a word with you.

Ivysaur can always change to Charizard if you see his damage is getting dangerous. Olimar's only way to circumvent this problem is to throw a Purple Pikmin really quick to push the opponent from the ledge, which is a problem seeing Purple Pikmin are rare.

I was exaggerating my expectation as a form of light sarcasm. Similar to The only difference is that unlike Red Mage, I don't totally and completely mean it. Nonetheless, I am getting somewhat better at Shiek-only K.O.'s. I have to get her down alone simply as a matter of necessity, the transformation leaves you so vulnerable to attack that much of the time transforming is just impossible without risking death. I've even tried crazy stuff like jumping off the level, transforming, and jumping back on. It seems like I may actually be able to get it to work.

While I think the Zelda/Sheik transformation idea is neat and was certainly great for the Melee version as it was in fact the same character from the same game, but at this point it's Twilight Princess Zelda transforming into Ocarina of Time Sheik and it's a bit contextually off.

But I don't mind that much. I've managed to train my "accidentally transform into Sheik" rate down drastically. Now it's just a matter of making sure I don't Farore's Wind when I want to Din's Fire or Din's Fire when I want to Naryu's Love, not to mention getting a good handle at milking Farore's Wind for all it's worth.

On a related note, I'm under the impression that Mirai and I are going to have to eventually throw down for Zelda supremacy sometime. Should be fun.

No offense, but the way you make it sound, supremacy might be a ways off...

Clearly the only way to solve this is with a dance off- err, battle.

Oh well, with the rediculously odd way I play, they might as well be the same.

Who are you, again?

What kind of question is that? This is forum! I could be anyone! The only thing that matters in particular in relation to that is that I do not stalk you within the extent of you knowledge. Wanna brawl?

I've been Zelda-ing since Melee. She was always my one true love. The Toe being turned into the Heel makes things a bit different for me, but they made Din's Fire less circumstantial and more of a useful projectile. She's become all-around good as opposed to tricky yet fun. I never liked Sheik - she always seemed like the Generic Quick But Weak Ninja character, and Melee's exploits made her total bullshit. She's become low to mid-tiered recently and that makes me happier, but all the same she never fit my style.

We will indeed, though I warn you Wi-Fi is not optimal Brawl circumstances under any means. No fight I engage in on wi-fi should ever be considered "my true skill."

Except that time I totally obliterated BlackHBMage with Ike. That was fun, though the Halberd's cannon certainly helped.

Ganondorf may be one of the worst characters in the game, but he's amazingly fun. I just managed to storm through Hard and I'm this close to beating Very Hard with him (Fucking Tabuu.). I also just cranked out a 1700+ Home Run Contest with him. Yay Warlock Punch + Thunderstomp. I even saved the replay.

What are your guys' top scores for HRC?

I've never tried the WiFi play yet, so I'm not sure if it will be a measure of "true skill" on my part, either. In fact, I'm not at all sure how relatively skilled I am at all. I can handle a single level 9 opponent with relative ease, but I'm only confident in my abilities against three computer opponents at an average level of 6. None of this, of course, is an indicator of anything in a match against humans, as the computer doesn't deal in strategery and relies on nothing more than immediately countering your button inputs. Multiple opponents almost constantly attack the player(s) rather than fighting amongst themselves like humans would.

I'm also fairly decent with ROB, Toon Link, Peach, and ZSamus.

As for HRC, I just (as in five minutes ago) beat the 1500 ft challenge with Ike.

I usually roll with Zelda, Ganondorf, ROB, Ike, (and less often) Bowser, Mario, Kirby, Red (PKMN Trainer), and Ness.

I've also been trying to learn Dedede, Lucario, and trying to find ways that Samus and Link don't suck.

This is the greatest game ever.

I learned Lucario before I started learning Shiek. Problem is that I didn't play Lucario enough to keep my skill up, and while I was an unstoppable monster, I'm now somewhat average with him.

You guys talking about homerun contest reminded me of the cheat in training mode. If you're trying to clear all challenges, there is one that requires you get a total combined combo of 400 hits from all characters in training mode.

If you put your enemy in front of a Smart Bomb, then hit them with it, getting yourself caught in the blast as well, you can constantly spawn more smart bombs into the explosion. They will be held in this blast with you for a long time, and it should be easy to get a 400 hit combo in almost no time at all.

Nintendo Wifi isn't too bad anymore, there used to be massive levels of lag that seemed to have reduced to a degree. There is a major problem with command lag though. It makes using things like Counter or dodging attacks very difficult because you have less reaction time. The controls take about a second longer than normal to take effect. One important thing I've seen in WiFi (learned this on the nintendo forum) is that if you have a Linksys router make sure it is on wireless channel 1 or 11. Others will make you lag more.

Or just go to a walled stage and pin the computer against the wall with someone like Kirby or Shiek.

My record on home run is a little bit over 1500. Those replays that get sent everyday of HRC and target breaker are pretty impressive.

I'm pretty fond of Meta Knight, Wario, Mario, Captain Falcon, Ike, Lucas, Marth, and ROB.

Link is actually pretty decent in this game, nerfed SKRAAAH or not. He's got good knockback in the right places and his Bair is (from my experience) fantastic.

As for Samus... Good. Luck.

I haven't done TOO much with that yet. I just went straight to the EZMode Yoshi for the 1500 ft challenge and haven't touched it since.
That one with Snake on Lv 4 BtT a few days ago was amazing.

My main complaint with Wi-Fi is that the lag damage is communal - If one guy's connection REALLY sucks, EVERYONE suffers for it in the form of command lag and framerate slowdown.

Yeah, that replay was just insane. I don't even want to know how much practice that required.

On the subject of Target Tests, I've been able to attain about a 24 second completion for the Level 5 Tests with Ness, Meta Knight, Marth, Ike, and Kirby. I've learned that you can throw the beam sword to hit not only the two targets in the bottom area, but also the target in the top-right corner of the enclosed area. You should be able to hit the one outside the area with an air move (I haven't figured out a way to get the Beam Sword to hit that target reliably).

In addition, you can hit one of the mid-air targets in the left portion of the level by throwing the mortar weapon (not a smash throw, but a tilt-throw) while standing on the platform you got the mortar from. I can't really think of how to shave off any more time, any ideas? That one target underneath your starting location always causes problems for me, as I have to go out of my way to break it, regardless of the route I take.

Well, I dunno about the others but I could send you my 19.4 second replay on lv 5 with Meta Knight. He has no projectiles, but his multiple jumps + glides REALLY comes in handy for that stage's geometry.

Yahtzee does what he does best: lambast popular games, product-placement place, and whine about no MOTHER 3 outside of Japan.

He's my hero.

Damnation! Zero Punctuation review of Brawl! Why is Escapist Magazine blocked on my college's computers?! Thank God my last exam is tomorrow...

I don't have my Wii Message Board posted on the wiki, but I'll find it out as soon as I get home. I would really like to see that replay, as I'm unsure if I'm even taking the correct route.

Mother. 3. will. NEVER. COME. OUT. TO. NORTH. AMERICA.

If you learn to accept it, then you will be much happier.

I don't even get why you have such a hard on for that game.

Samus stops sucking once you get her Final Smash. She's more prone to damage, but she's much more easier to control and her attacks actually do something instead of making your opponent fly 2 inches off the ground (even after 100% damage).

I've yet to try the WiFi myself...for no other reason than because my TV doesn't have that kind of connection.

As far as characters go, I've mastered Kirby, Ganondorf (who is much, <i>much</i> more slower than he was in Melee), Fox, Falco, King Dedede, Meta Knight, Bowser, R.O.B., Donkey Kong, and am in the process of trying to learn Wolf and Sonic. If anyone knows a way to have Sonic cause more damage that doesn't involve his special moves (which I cannot figure out), I'd really appreciate it if you shared that information with me.

It's the principle behind it all, Big Mac. It basically is, as R_T's avatar shows, a big "fuck you" from Japan. There is a fairly huge coalition of EarthBound fans that have sent petition after petition, organized many different events, all to demonstrate to Nintendo "western" interest in the Mother series and convince them to release Mother 3 here in America.

I don't know about you, Mac, but I frigging loved EarthBound - it was the game sparked my interest in RPGs, and Nintendo's justification for not releasing Mother 3 is rather weak, complete and total lack of Nintendo RPGs nonwithstanding.

Oh, and, fan translation of Mother 3. They've made some major progress and are apparently almost finished.

EDIT: Mirror Emperor, you do realize that it IS Wireless, your television doesn't need a special connection? If you have a wireless router, there should be no issue in connecting to Nintendo Wi-Fi.

Oh, and Sonic's aerials are great at racking up damage. His tilt attacks are fairly underwhelming, but you really don't have any alternatives. Sonic cannot knock people back until really high percentages, so you need to use all of his moves, or the Stale Move Penalty will make inflicting damage even more difficult.

Funny thing, I tried Earthbound and I couldn't get into it.

Maybe again oneday but seriously, I couldn't get into the game.

I don't. As a result, I'm left in the dark as far as WiFi goes.

I understand...I've tried his aerial moves in Boss Battles and they cause an impressive amount of damage, but beyond that, his regular Smash and the tried-and-true Up+A move, I don't know how to control his special moves or anything of that nature. So I should probably give up on Sonic and move on.

Oh, but it will.

In the form of a fan-translation, but it will.


See, that's why nobody likes you.

ooh ow, I have been insulted on the internet. HOW WILL I SURVIVE.

You will endure, but you'll be a shell of your former self.
I'm assuming by "special moves", you mean his B moves, correct? Remember that you can charge up all of them by holding down B. His neutral B is a homing attack, his forward B causes him to hop and thus combo into aerials easier, and his down B is a ground-based spin. The spring that Sonic's recovery move creates can be used as a projectile: you can create a sort of "combo" with up and B when above your opponent, followed by his down aerial.

You're saying I will be a heartless person afterwards.

That is the nicest thing anyone has ever said.

And not to make this post spammy, is there a good way to use Yoshi?

His Egg Roll can stop a full spin-dash from Sonic, Ganondorf's Warlock Punch, C. Falcon's Falcon Punch, Meta Knight's Tornado, and Samus' full Charge Beam.

That's about it.

They all looked the same to me, hence why I was confused. But thanks for the intel.

Two words: Ground Pound.

I find the ground pound is in the same category as link's Dair. I mean it is good if you are just above the guys head as it makes more difficult to avoid. But correct me if I am wrong, but doesn;t the ground pound lift you up a bit.

Also, RT, send me a link for Earthbound (I deleted it a while back) and I'll try it again.

Yoshi's Dair does absurdly good % damage. It's not just for home run bat - even if only half the move connects, you've done more than most smash attacks.

Also, very fast ftilt and utilt.

For Samus: Utilt and Dtilt are your friends.

"Samus that doesn't suck" doesn't really get fixed when you become Zero Suit Samus. She's a wholly separate character and Samus isn't half as good.

I mean, you can be ZSamus from the start - there's a button that you hold when the match starts and Samus' armor falls off. Short of that, put your finger on the D-pad (Gamecube) or 1 and 2 (Wiimote) and taunt up and down like crazy and it'll switch to ZSamus really quick.

Anyway
He's not as good as he used to be, but Dair and Bair right on top of them racks damage really fast, and Fair, Fsmash, and Dsmash are all good finishers.

Learn the eggs. They are your weapon.

POS: Read this thread. It'll save you months of practice and confusion about missing a Faeore's Wind.

The jist basically says that Faeore's Wind doesn't have an 8-way teleport, it's a 16-way. Which is why sometimes you teleport and you end up under the platform, and you think, "Oh, I missed the timing." You didn't.

Oh, I've already read that bit, so I know how the whole thing works. I've got a decent enough handle on using it as a recovery tool and have moved on to using it offensively, which is hella fun. She makes a pretty good Nightcrawler.

From my contacts: Japanese Dairantou Suma Bura Ekkusu Tier Listing based on weekly ranking battles and top player collaboration.

I believe they are putting Fox and Falco far too high, especially when Fox right now seems to be the best of all the Space Animals, followed closely by Wolf.

Note: The Japanese adjust their lists weekly. Zelda not even in the ranking shows there's room for adjustments. The only consistent thing week to week is that Snake is #1 (which makes me happy).

Eh, I say leave her under the radar. The last thing I want is the character I've grown so fond of becoming the next Marth.

Marth is still the Marth. Shorter range, yes, but still very Marthy.

I'd say Zelda is the new Falcon: Really dangerous, rewarding aerials in front and behind, that don't really do much if not hit properly.

On that note, Wario is the new Jiggs.

[EDIT] DANCE PARTY!