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-   -   Paris officials douse the flame five times in a day: The Olympic ideals Vs. China? (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?t=28301)

Regulus Tera 04-07-2008 02:46 PM

Paris officials douse the flame five times in a day: The Olympic ideals Vs. China?
 
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/eu...lay/index.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by CNN
Olympic torch hit by protests during Paris leg

The last part of the Olympic torch relay in Paris was canceled Monday after a day of chaos in which anti-China protesters forced authorities to extinguish the flame at least five times, take to a bus and skip some scheduled stops, including city hall.

Police and pro-Tibet protesters clash in Paris as the Olympic torch relay arrives in the French capital.

There were confrontations between the authorities and demonstrators throughout the day as the relay attempted to crisscross Paris, birthplace of the modern Olympic movement, passing landmarks including l'Arc d'Triomphe, the Place de la Concord, The Louvre and Notre Dame.

The torch was eventually driven by bus to its ending destination, where it was displayed again during a public ceremony at a stadium.

Numerous protesters, some armed with fire extinguishers, were taken away by police, The Associated Press reported. At other times police used tear gas to remove demonstrators who lay in the road and tried to block the route.

The chaos came one day after human rights activist demonstrators made the torch's journey through London more like running the gauntlet than a journey of celebration, as UK police made more than two dozen arrests. What do you think of protests at the Olympic torch relay?

The chaos began almost immediately as French 400-meter athlete Stephane Diagana, the first torch bearer, left the Eiffel Tower at around 1030 GMT (0630 ET) -- only for Sylvain Garel, a Green Party activist, to try to grab the torch, agencies reported.

The torch was being carried by a wheelchair athlete when it was halted and extinguished for a second time due to demonstrators shouting, according to AP.

The procession was interrupted for a third time when police spotted a crowd of demonstrators waiting for the torch on a bridge as they approached, the agency added.

Protesters close to the River Seine twice forced authorities to put the torch out and take to a bus so they could continue the relay.

But the Olympic flame itself, lit from the birthplace of the ancient games in Olympia, Greece and used to light the torch, continued to burn in a small lantern in the bus.

Jim Bittermann, CNN's senior European correspondent based in Paris, said that while it was hard to gauge numbers, it looked like thousands of demonstrators had taken to the streets -- although some were Chinese backing the Olympics.

"There was a small punch-up between some supporters of Tibet and some supporters of the Olympics," he added.

Paris police had conceived a security strategy to keep the torch in a safe zone during its 17-mile (28 km) journey -- significantly shorter than the 48-kilometer (31-mile) relay undertaken in London Sunday.

The plan was for the torchbearers to be encircled by several hundred officers, some in riot police vehicles and on motorcycles, others on rollerblades and on foot. Closest to the torchbearer would be the Chinese torch escorts, with Paris police on rollerblades moving around them. French firefighters in jogging shoes would encircle the rollerbladers, while motorcycle police would form the outer layer of security.

French Olympic champion Marie-Josée Perec, Portugal forward Pedro Miguel Pauleta and badminton player Pi Hongyan are among the featured torch bearers, although some were expected to wear protest buttons.

The head of Reporters Without Borders, a French-based group that disrupted last month's torch lighting ceremony in Olympia, Greece, had told CNN before the relay began that his group has planned "something spectacular" to protest the relay.

At least six groups had permits to protest along the route, but only for demonstrations well away from the flame's path. The Paris mayor had ordered a banner to be hung from city hall that reads "Paris City of Human Rights."

The protests have been timed to coincide with the run-up to the Summer Olympic Games in Beijing in August.

On Monday, French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said all options remained open for Paris concerning a possible boycott of the opening of the Beijing Olympics, AP reported.

In London Sunday, the Olympic torch was met with widespread protests and scuffles between demonstrators and police as thousands turned out to protest Olympic host China's human rights record and its recent clampdown on Tibet.

Some demonstrators threw themselves at the torch, and at least one tried to snatch it away during the 48-kilometer (31-mile) relay. Another tried to put out the flame with a fire extinguisher. They were quickly pushed back and cuffed by Metropolitan Police, which said its officers made 36 arrests on a variety of charges.

Beijing Olympic spokesman condemned "attempts to sabotage" the London relay, according to China's state-run Xinhua news agency. The official was not named in the article.

China has come under international criticism because of its crackdown last month on protesters calling for democratic freedoms and self-rule in Tibet and neighboring Chinese provinces.
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Chinese authorities have denied those allegations and have accused the Dalai Lama of instigating violence among his followers -- an allegation he rejects. U.S. and other Western leaders have called on China to provide civil rights and freedoms to those in Tibet and to enter peaceful discussions aimed at resolving the crisis.

In most cases, however, the torch passed through London without incident. Tessa Jowell, Britain's Olympics minister, called it "a demanding day for the police" and for the Beijing Organizing Committee, but also noted thousands had come out "to welcome the torch."

Video (in French though)

I think we can all agree that the momentary stop to the burning of the torch is a sad event. While it's true that this is not the first time something like this has happened, the whole situation has made me doubt about how far should one take an opinion in order to voice it. I'm of the opinion that this event should stick to its athletic principles first and foremost, as it is a celebration for athletes, after all.


Do you believe it is worth it to mess with the Olympic ideals for something that the Chinese government will be very unlikely to change?

Didn't really consider this to be Discussion worthy.

Bells 04-07-2008 03:00 PM

at first i though that the Olympics in China would be great and a fun event, maybe it could even help to open the eyes fo the world to see china beyond the cliche; And help China to see the world beyond the blindfold...

But everyday now i fear that this is going to be a bad idea... really, i dont think that the Olympic Games well be a show for "people" this time... it will be a simple Sports exibithion amongst the people who participate in it.

There is a great chance of Protests on each and every single event and ceremony... banners, Shirts, Flags with messages... things could get violent easily. Tv is controled and people will only see what they want us to see.

Those who protest are using the Olympics as a weapon to raise their voicesagainst china. Claiming that "now is the time" and that they "Dont deserve to host the Olympic spirit". At some level they are right... and at deeper levels they can be majorly wrong with the way they are choosing to do it.

I dont know man... but i'm already watching this Olympic Games for the news and riots rather than the Sports. And that's a bad thing

Meister 04-07-2008 03:16 PM

If it's strictly a celebration for athletes what are all the sponsorship deals and broadcasting licenses doing in it?

Quote:

Do you believe it is worth it to mess with the Olympic ideals for something that the Chinese government will be very unlikely to change?
Yes. It's absolutely worth messing with the Olympic ideals and I myself would mess with the Olympic ideals given half the chance. They are less important than the people in China and Tibet. It's unlikely to bring about change, but it's better to voice your opinion than to stand there and pretend everything's a-okay over in China, just lay back and think of the Olympic Rings.

EDIT: In fact, part of why there are protests probably are the Olympic ideals, or what protesters perceive them to be. "Don't deserve to host the Olympic spirit" sounds pretty spot-on to me though, even though it's not quite logically conclusive.

I do wish there were similar protests when there aren't any Olympic games around the corner though, whether the subject is China or any other not-quite-trustworthy state. It's not a good thing when people only come out and protest when there's TV cameras.

Bells 04-07-2008 03:40 PM

where is the Torch going after Paris?

Just to get some foreshadowing on this mess...

Tophat 04-07-2008 03:47 PM

The torch passed through London with a lot of protest. Perhaps not as bad as Paris since it didn't have to be extinguished, but still a lot of people trying to grab it off the celebrities and other such things. When I watched the news report about the goings on, it seems none of this is reported in China. Not a single person the BBC asked on the Chinese streets had heard about the protests in London, their news report only showed them the bits with no protestors.

Osterbaum 04-07-2008 04:03 PM

Quote:

It's not a good thing when people only come out and protest when there's TV cameras.
Protests also don't get half of the visibility that they do with TV cameras around. This both leads to a logical conclusion of organizing a protest when it's most likely to be noted in the popular media as well as people maybe not hearing so much about the protests when there aren't any TV cameras around.

But I think Meister hit the nail pretty hard right here:
Quote:

Yes. It's absolutely worth messing with the Olympic ideals and I myself would mess with the Olympic ideals given half the chance. They are less important than the people in China and Tibet.
Besides, last I checked, some of the Olympic ideals are things that call us to do something for one another; for our fellow human beings. The "spirit of the Olympics" is not just about "a fair game" or to hold a celebration of athletes to see which country's is the best one. Atleast not the way I see it.

Bells 04-07-2008 07:12 PM

i just saw that the next stop of the Torch is in San Francisco, and there are already Protests waiting for its arrival.

I just hope that things dont to get too messy. Sure, it's 100% right to say that the Olympics get second place when compared to the situation in Tibet... But you know how people get... if things start to esclate from what happened on Paris, it's just going to be too much of a mess

Professor Smarmiarty 04-07-2008 07:31 PM

I have odd views on China and Tibet but I'll leave those aside for the purposes of this and assume someone who wants to make a stand against China and its human right abuses.
Well I think back to boycott of the Moscow games. The boycott didn't actually hurt Moscow that much, what was really damaging was the countries who did go. They brought with them a vast amount of media who couldn't all be controlled and the extent of economic problems of the USSR became very transparent. A similar thing happened with the apartheid sporting bans on South Africa.
In addition going to the games is a good way to establish a bit of communication with the country and a bit of good will which can then be parlanced into negotiations and things.

Bells 04-07-2008 07:59 PM

My problem with china is the International Midia going there to cover the events in a country were the they are publicly open about censorship on transmissions.

THAT is a sore spot that could cause major trouble if people try to do stuff like "boo" Chinese athletes or Antemn and of course, protests During, before and after games being filmed by international midia...

Professor Smarmiarty 04-07-2008 09:04 PM

But that's kind of the point. You can't censor a huge media contigent.


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