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Truce 05-18-2008 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryong
Having something that will make your character unsuck, but you have a limited use of it and each time you use it the game itself gets harder, forcing you into using it more and screwing the story. Who does this? Breath of Fire V: Dragon Quarter. Each time you turn into a dragon, you get screwed. You get crappier items, enemies become a bit harder and stuff. Also, save tokens. I hate them. Oh sure, it's good in RE, but not for a RPG.

...oh, man. The first time I played that game I didn't realize what that gauge meant and used that super special awesome beam against on the first boss after I got it.

I was panicking as it seemed to refuse to die, despite so much damage racking up. And then I died.

Odjn 05-18-2008 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryong
Having something that will make your character unsuck, but you have a limited use of it and each time you use it the game itself gets harder, forcing you into using it more and screwing the story. Who does this? Breath of Fire V: Dragon Quarter. Each time you turn into a dragon, you get screwed. You get crappier items, enemies become a bit harder and stuff. Also, save tokens. I hate them. Oh sure, it's good in RE, but not for a RPG.

Save tokens, well I never actually used anywhere near enough to worry.

Okay, I'm not sure where you got that but I never noticed any of that. In fact, that's how I farmed items and my characters to a point where I didn't need to use the form at all (and the game's ridiculously hard then) but I never noticed harder items. And you can use the form fairly liberally, wasting it is fairly silly. I mean, it's 1% to change, 1% for a basic attack, 1.25 per enemy for a sweeping attack and 1.5 for a double damage attack. There's the boost, which is 2% per charge (and with 5-6 boosts you start oneshotting bosses), the dash which gives you like .05% per use and the gradual .01% from walking around. And Dragon Breath, which was awful and never should be used.

The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk 05-18-2008 03:58 PM

What I hate about videogames? Movie tie-ins, all of which suck. Are people still stupid enough to go out and by these things? Haven't they realised by now that they're all shit?!


Games where you regenerate health by simply hiding and resting somewhere quiet for a few seconds. In action games this takes all of the danger out of the situation, because all you have to do is run away, which is the exact opposite of what you should be doing in an action game. Unfortunately, the otherwise excellent Uncharted is guilty of this. The only games that are exempt from this are SotC and Portal, because health isn't important enough in either of them in the first place.

There are probably other things I hate, but I can't really think of any right now.

Mike McC 05-18-2008 04:27 PM

I like save points, only because they actually remind me to save. Like I was playing Lunar, and I lost 3, 4 hours of playing because I forgot I could save anywhere.

Perhaps a secondary difficulty setting could be implemented to toggle savepoints and quick saving, to fit the particular player's tastes.

DFM 05-18-2008 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawk
What I hate about videogames? Movie tie-ins, all of which suck. Are people still stupid enough to go out and by these things? Haven't they realised by now that they're all shit?!

Hulk: Ultimate Destruction

Theory destroyed.

bluestarultor 05-18-2008 05:11 PM

I think that with the save and battle questions, it's a matter of what the game type and layout demands.

I believe a save point system is perfect for a normal RPG, so long as there's enough opportunity to use them. You can have multiple files for different players, and backups for if you lose data. As long as there's a reasonable amount per area and one before and after every boss, there's no issue. I also think that turn-based battle in the form of ATB is still suitable for normal RPGs. True turn-based, not so much. FFX did it well enough, but true turn-based is really out right now. Having an ATB turn-based system still encourages tactics, especially systems like the one used for the Grandia games, notably Grandia 3, without being clunky.

Now, for other games, real-time battle is fine. Like for real-time strategy, or shooters. Maybe even party RPGs, like Star Ocean, as much as I disliked it there.

Save items are, in my opinion, an unnecessary time/money sink. I've seen games with save items and never liked it much, as you can run out at inopportune moments, or use them up too fast if you're a double-saver like Phantom. I also dislike quicksaves as a permanent solution. You can screw yourself over pretty badly with them on occasion, and it encourages using them as a crutch. Being able to save anywhere takes all the tension out of the game, which makes it boring, since part of the experience is a sense of accomplishment for beating a level or boss. I have nothing against temporary "memo" saves from certain FF games, but those are gone when you switch off, meaning you at least can rely on a save point save if you screw yourself over. Because a memo system forces you to, if you want to come back to it later. It's really a happy medium, because you still can save some data in-dungeon in case you die, but there's always a guaranteed hard copy at the last big accomplishment and the option of multiple files.

Autosaving is really starting to show itself recently, and it's not without merit. But really, most of it depends on having the autosaves where you'd otherwise have save points, and it can be catastrophic if it fails. With save points, you can have multiple files, so if one gets hit by a power outage, you at least have an older one to fall back on instead of starting over. With an autosave, not so much. FPS types really benefit from the system, but not so much RPGs.

Ryong 05-18-2008 05:21 PM

Odjn, the percentages for the good items drops the higher the gauge is. If you ever use it past a certain point, you can't access some bonus places.

And Hulk: Ultimate Destruction was truly awesome. Any game that allows missiles to be exchanged for COWS and lets you play baseball with a rocket-propelled cow and a pole is awesome.

Also? RPGs with a stupid new game+. As in, they let you take something from your last playthrough, but it's something so worthless that there's no need for it. Radiata Stories is insanely guilty of this by only letting you keep your normal items ( not useful at all ), but not your gold. All your accessories come too, not that they're that useful. All your characters that you struggled to get? Gone. You still have their entry on your "friend book" which is just proof that you got them...Also, you don't keep weapons and armors which are also way useful. Oh, you DO keep your skills with weapons, though.

The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk 05-18-2008 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFM
Hulk: Ultimate Destruction

Theory destroyed.

I suppose there's always an exception to every rule, but weren't there 2 games based on the last Hulk movie? And the first WAS shit. Ultimate destruction drew in ideas from the comics as well, so that might explain it.

Oh and I suppose spiderman 2 was pretty good. But other than that, movies to games = utter shite.

Mike McC 05-18-2008 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawk
I suppose there's always an exception to every rule, but weren't there 2 games based on the last Hulk movie? And the first WAS shit. Ultimate destruction drew in ideas from the comics as well, so that might explain it.

Oh and I suppose spiderman 2 was pretty good. But other than that, movies to games = utter shite.

The Lord of the Rings games were pretty good. Ecks vs. Sever was actually much better than the movie that shared it's name. Mighty Morphin Power Rangers: The Movie was a pretty good game, from what I remember. Motherfucking Goldeneye.

Theory obliterated.
Quote:

Originally Posted by bluestarultor
I also think that turn-based battle in the form of ATB is still suitable for normal RPGs. True turn-based, not so much. FFX did it well enough, but true turn-based is really out right now. Having an ATB turn-based system still encourages tactics, especially systems like the one used for the Grandia games, notably Grandia 3, without being clunky.

Go out and play Shadow Hearts: Covenant, and then tell me that pure turn-based combat is out of style.

Ryong 05-18-2008 06:06 PM

I hated the LotR strategy game, Battle for Middle-Earth. For no absolute reason at all I lost everything. No, no one died or anything, I just lost the game randomly. ALSO SOMETHING THAT I HATE: Game gives you no idea of what the heck you're supposed to do and then kills you out of nowhere. Metroid getting you locked is something entirely different.


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