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Lumenskir 06-19-2008 11:02 AM

The 4th Spatial Dimension, 3-D Retinas, and 2 Much Fun1!!
 
Things I'd Totally Do If I Could Enter The Fourth Dimension
- Go at a right angle to known space, flip my body around the plane of existence, then totally play all my favorite racing games, except now I don't have to cheat to activate mirror mode.
- Tell people what's in their cupboards, then steal whatever happens to be in there without actually opening them. Finish it off by telling the bedazzled spectator that they just got Flatland'd.
- Make an omelette without breaking any eggs.

I'm Probably Getting To The Party Late With These, But I Haven't Read Anything That Addressed Them
- Ok, so as three-dimensional beings we only possess the ability to see in two-dimensions, but we make up for our 2-D retina by having a lot of clever shading and perspective tricks. However, is it possible to make a three dimensional retina capable of seeing in true 3-D? I know we can't make an organic one, but shouldn't we be able to program a mechanical or computerized version? Or am I missing something?
- Has anyone called dibs on what the new fourth direction will even be called? Or is it one of those things where it wouldn't be considered scientifically cool to name something before it's discovered?

EVILNess 06-19-2008 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumenskir (Post 798229)
- Has anyone called dibs on what the new fourth direction will even be called? Or is it one of those things where it wouldn't be considered scientifically cool to name something before it's discovered?

Not to sound stupid but aren't there already 4 directions?

I mean, up, down, left, right? Thats four.

shiney 06-19-2008 11:43 AM

Up/down, left/right, front/back are the 3 spatial dimensions. The 4th dimension is often considered to be "time", also it can be described something like a line along which the other 3 dimensions travel. An alternate consideration regarding the 4th dimension either puts beings outside of the influence of time and resultingly making them 'Gods' or simply that it is a further physical dimension that cannot be perceived by the human eye, only felt.

As a 3 dimensional being is incapable of viewing a 4th dimensional being, our perspectives not physically or dimensionally equipped to render such an object, it would allow such beings to slip in and out of our 'reality', just as a 3 dimensional being could do to a 2 dimensional being. 2 dimensional existences are only present on an x-y axis, so for a 3 dimensional existence to be perceived they must be in conjunction with said axis. To move in any direction along the z axis removes them from that existence. Ergo, a further axis can be considered to exist for the 4th dimension, and they would thus be able to move in our out of our sphere of existence by moving along this axis.

And after that is when things get complicated.

See this and the subsequent pages it links to for more information on current theories regarding further imperceivable dimensions.

(This is what I want to study in college. Now to get past that meddlesome $60,000 thing.)

bluestarultor 06-19-2008 11:54 AM

No. See, we live in four dimensions. Three axes (up-down, left-right, front-back) and time. Looking at it this way, since we don't "see" time, our visual world takes place in this:

Code:

      x
      A  z
      | /
      |/
<-----O-----> y
    /|
    / |
      V

Time is the fourth dimension, which is harder to model visually. There are visual models, but I'm not going to dig for any at the moment. Suffice it to say that time is easier to experience than it is to draw.



Edit: Okay, Shiney did it better. Darn ninjas. XP

Funka Genocide 06-19-2008 11:54 AM

it's pretty hard to think 4-dimensionally in any readily adaptable human sense. It can be described mathematically with a great degree of illustrative accuracy though.

in other news I think Lumenskir is on the good shit.

So how would you measure distance in fourth dimensional travel, and how would one denote a destination? Like, use galactic coordinates based on readily identifiable and recurring heavenly bodies dispersed throughout the multiverse in relatively unchanged forms, while specifying a particular distance in a fourth dimensional direction from a point of origin?

how does relativity affect travel in this plane? what would be the theorized rate of distortion for pertinent physical factors, would it be the solution to function with an identifiable curve trend towards change? Could there be spatial anomalies which affect foruth dimensional travel, causing certain galactic locations to be out of synch, thusly complication distance formulas even more so?

What about astronavigation and the impact such anomalies would have on interstellar travel?

ASNWER ME LUMENSKIR! I MUST KNOW!

Regulus Tera 06-19-2008 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluestarultor (Post 798253)
Time is the fourth dimension, which is harder to model visually. There are visual models, but I'm not going to dig for any at the moment. Suffice it to say that time is easier to experience than it is to draw.

I WILL!

Did you hear that, everyone? It's hypercube time!!


bluestarultor 06-19-2008 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funka Genocide (Post 798254)
it's pretty hard to think 4-dimensionally in any readily adaptable human sense. It can be described mathematically with a great degree of illustrative accuracy though.

in other news I think Lumenskir is on the good shit.

So how would you measure distance in fourth dimensional travel, and how would one denote a destination? Like, use galactic coordinates based on readily identifiable and recurring heavenly bodies dispersed throughout the multiverse in relatively unchanged forms, while specifying a particular distance in a fourth dimensional direction from a point of origin?

how does relativity affect travel in this plane? what would be the theorized rate of distortion for pertinent physical factors, would it be the solution to function with an identifiable curve trend towards change? Could there be spatial anomalies which affect foruth dimensional travel, causing certain galactic locations to be out of synch, thusly complication distance formulas even more so?

What about astronavigation and the impact such anomalies would have on interstellar travel?

ASNWER ME LUMENSKIR! I MUST KNOW!

I think most of this can be summed up with "the faster you go, the slower time goes."

Edit: To put it this way, relativity has a huge amount of effect on time. Wikipedia has more info.

Funka Genocide 06-19-2008 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluestarultor (Post 798259)
I think most of this can be summed up with "the faster you go, the slower time goes."


Your summation is not nearly as enlightening as what I was expecting.

:(

TDK 06-19-2008 12:06 PM

Caution: Science Content!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Funka Genocide (Post 798254)
So how would you measure distance in fourth dimensional travel, and how would one denote a destination?

Minutes, days, seconds, etc.

We are not truly fourth dimensional beings as we are constantly moving forward (Albeit at varying speeds) in time, as opposed to the spacial dimensions in which we are free to move in whatever direction we like. (Except for, you know, gravity and such, but its still possible.) Though theoretically, with an infinite energy source, it would be possible for us to move any direction we like in time, but that would involve going faster than the speed of light. And you can't really go forward too much faster than we already are. (Since being in a vacuum, as opposed to moving along with Earth as we are now, isn't that much slower. Perhaps 30,000 mph or some such? Doesn't speed up the flow of time too much.)

Of course this is mostly only if you believe relativity.

Also, seeing in "true" 3D would require something like clairvoyance. You know how video games are only truly 3D if they actually render all the characters with models and stuff, as opposed to just making them from every angle and stuff like sprites? It would have to be like that. You would have to be able to see everything from every angle, etc, to see in "true" 3D. I think what we have is close enough. And you could say that video games rendered in true 3D (Wherein everything is rendered, etc, whether you can see it or not.) so you could say your tv screen is a true 3D retina, as you call it.

Edit: Hold on Funka, I'll explain blue's answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funka Genocide
Your summation is not nearly as enlightening as what I was expecting.

At least according to some theories (Which, to me, seem pretty likely. I'm moderately certain I'm just explaining relativity here.), the faster you go, the slower time goes because: We have a constant speed through time, as well as in the spacial dimensions. But your total speed is always the speed of light. (I'm not sure on the conversion with speed through time versus speed through distance, but its a lot.) To explain, lets assume the speed of light is, say, one thousand miles per hour. (Its 3.8 x 10^8 m/s, but this is simpler.) So, you are going ten miles per hour on earth as it rotates, the normal speed of earth's rotation, and you are sitting still. Time is passing at the normal rate, for the sake of this argument, 990 mph. (Again, not sure how miles per hour and such converts into time to add up for it to equal the speed of light, but I think speed through times definitely equals a lot of speed for distance.) You get in your car and accelerate to sixty miles per hour. This slows time (a ridiculously minute amount, IRL.) to 940 mph. You go to eighty, time goes to 920, etc. Your total speed in space and in time adds up to equal the speed of light, but your speed in time is always very large, so when you increase your speed in space, your speed in time slows down to compensate. And when you slow back down in space, you speed up again in time.

Did that make any sense?

So I like ranting about science big whoop wanna fight about it?

Funka Genocide 06-19-2008 12:11 PM

I demand a self-contained solar furnace with a hyper-velocity acceleration engine derived from artificial wormhole creation devices utilizing rotational elements oscillating at approximately the speed of light to create localized gravitational fluctuations at or near black hole densities.

and the ride better be smooth as a lexus or we're going to have words.


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