FISA
 

As much as anything to get that ElectricRetard thing off the top of the forum (I should really just delete that thread) but I thought we should talk about Congress' recent passage of FISA legislation.

Basically this legislation does a few significant things. First, it immunizes telecom companies for their role in President Bush's previous illegal spying program, both protecting them and preventing legal discovery of the extent of the President's lawbreaking. Second, it allows for blanket government eavesdropping on all communications between US citizens and foreigners, which given the interconnectedness of today's communications networks means they can basically listen to anything they like. Third, it exempts the aforementioned blanket eavesdropping from any meaningful judicial oversight, so if the executive branch decides to go ahead and just wiretap everything, everywhere all the time, there's basically nothing to stop them from doing it. And even if there were, the Congress has established that it is more than willing to excuse such lawbreaking.

Obviously this has pretty straightforward implications for the rule of law in this country.

MOD NOTE: Please anyone inclined to start with the profane slurring of political leaders or insulting dismissals of anybody whose views differ from yours, just, you know, don't. This is obviously a subject where people are going to be inclined to have strong views but that's no excuse for anybody to be an asshole.

And, from what I understand, there's absolutely no higher power (executive branch or otherwise) to stop or reverse this legislation or the use of this legislation, basically saying the President can make an decision that Joe Schmoe talking to Jill Schmoe over in Europe needs to be listened in on if he sees fit?

What I find really bad is the fact that this may not be shot down in court. Most courts have become very one sided towards Republican politics and in no way shape or form does this look... Good.

I find it ironic that this is the same type of thing that Regan got in trouble for. It seems more and more, that we (humans) love to repeat history.

Isn't this a Democrat Congress? And didn't they promise not to pass stuff like this? What gives?

Lies, of course. Is this new?

Out of curiousity, since a lot of this power seems to be held by the Executive, does this mean having a newer, dare I say, more just President allow some of this to be undone?

But it sounds like at this point you can't break the law as President, and you can't be tried for something you did as President when you're not President, and they're doing their best to make everybody currently breaking the law (in spirit, if not literally) immune to the iron fist of justice.

Is any of this the case?

Frankly, the only way this could be overturned is by the Supreme Court. However, that means someone actually has to make a case and work through the entire appeals system to get it there. I think. Because while I'm not 100% on this, I don't think they can just go gallivanting around declaring whatever they want unconstitutional.

*raises hands*

I've been thinking. So, how is Bush any different from a dictator, at this point?

He has the "authority" to throw anyone in jail for nothing, with no rights whatsover.

He theoretically has to answer to the Legislative and Judicial branches of the government, but that ain't happenin' much, and everything he's done pretty much allows him to just ignore silly things like checks and balances.

He can listen in on anything we basically say or do, as this illustrates.

So, he can throw people in secret prisons on whims, he can invade privacy anytime he chooses, he basically has given agencies under his control the ability to do whatever they want, and he supposedly has to answer to other people, who most of the time act like a gang of yes-men.

Pretty much the only thing missing is the fact that we still have freedom of the press, and even that is being eroded.

I know this isn't new, but I think it is a valid point.

I'd like to know what the voting looked like: who voted, how close was the majority, etc. I heard, but am not sure about, that Obama voted in favor of the bill. Disturbing if true as he's most likely going to be the next president. At this rate there's not going to be an America to come home to.

Like this?

Clinton, Nay.
McCain, Not Voting.
Obama, Yea.