The Warring States of NPF

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Seil 08-02-2008 08:21 PM

It's Eros, not cupid, Eros you fool!

Solid Snake 08-02-2008 09:14 PM

Hades kinds of get an unnecessarily bad rep in the Hercules movie. It's still a great movie so I can't really complain much, but seriously, they oversimplified things big time by transforming Hades into a Judeo-Christian notion of "evil." (In other words, Hades pretty much became...Satan?)
In real Greco-Roman mythology, with maybe one or two exceptions (like Athena, and then only if you were an Athenian,) all the Gods and Goddesses were far too damned complex and "human" to really be subverted into "good" or "evil" stereotypes. Zeus had a temper and flirted with everything with a skirt, Ares wreaked havoc with his wars, Poseidon had a temper, too, and a bit of an inferiority complex in regards to his brother, Hera was jealous of other women, Aphrodite was a whore, Artemis was quite possibly a lesbian who just frankly despised men, Hephestasus was deformed and had issues yet nonetheless ended up "technically" with Aphrodite through some ludicrousity...it was crazy. Crazy as in totally awesome.

I'm frankly shocked a real Greco-Roman mythology movie hasn't been done. You could have all sorts of classic storytelling devices, usually found in soap operas that appeal to women and war epics that appeal to men, in such a movie. And Gods that actually acted like human beings but that wielded unlimited powers? It'd appeal to everybody. Crazy shit up the wazoo.

Ryong 08-02-2008 09:48 PM

The Greek pantheon is insanely complicated. Watching two years of a cartoon about the greek mythology ( I don't remember what was it called :( ) didn't quite help me understand much about it, though.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solid Snake (Post 818052)
Zeus had a temper and flirted with everything with a skirt,

In a time where men also had skirts. And you forgot Zeus' apparent love of turning into a random animal to have sex with mortal women.

Lumenskir 08-02-2008 09:56 PM

Quote:

.........I couldn't get past the massive deviations from the source material. Having Hades as a villain and Hera as anything other than the most evil thing in the godly pantheon just pissed me right off.

But other than that it was fine.
Quote:

She wasn't evil, per se, but the Greek gods were constantly squabbling like toddlers in the myths. To sum it up in a deep breath:

Hera was constantly pissed off because Zeus was always running around with other women so she went and made a bunch of other gods as her children by striking the ground in anger and eating weird foods whenever Hermes ratted him out but what can you expect from a brother and sister anyway like how Hades ticked off Demeter by stealing Persephone who was basically his niece with Apollo's (whose twin sister was Artemis) help pointing her out because Aphrodite had Cupid shoot him with an arrow for being so cold and because she was bitchy about being forced to marry Haephestus who was gimped up from being thrown from the top of Mount Olympus and because he'd caught her sleeping with Ares but nothing really came of it because Poseidon waved it off and left Ares free to quibble with Athena since they were both gods of war and didn't care that Hestia probably didn't like when all her fireplaces got destroyed and they all spun a tangled web because they'd fall in love with or just feel like helping humans.
Quote:

It's Eros, not cupid, Eros you fool!
Quote:

Hades kinds of get an unnecessarily bad rep in the Hercules movie. It's still a great movie so I can't really complain much, but seriously, they oversimplified things big time by transforming Hades into a Judeo-Christian notion of "evil." (In other words, Hades pretty much became...Satan?)
In real Greco-Roman mythology, with maybe one or two exceptions (like Athena, and then only if you were an Athenian,) all the Gods and Goddesses were far too damned complex and "human" to really be subverted into "good" or "evil" stereotypes. Zeus had a temper and flirted with everything with a skirt, Ares wreaked havoc with his wars, Poseidon had a temper, too, and a bit of an inferiority complex in regards to his brother, Hera was jealous of other women, Aphrodite was a whore, Artemis was quite possibly a lesbian who just frankly despised men, Hephestasus was deformed and had issues yet nonetheless ended up "technically" with Aphrodite through some ludicrousity...it was crazy. Crazy as in totally awesome.

I'm frankly shocked a real Greco-Roman mythology movie hasn't been done. You could have all sorts of classic storytelling devices, usually found in soap operas that appeal to women and war epics that appeal to men, in such a movie. And Gods that actually acted like human beings but that wielded unlimited powers? It'd appeal to everybody. Crazy shit up the wazoo.
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/3...iategh3.th.png

Professor Smarmiarty 08-02-2008 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solid Snake (Post 818052)
Hades kinds of get an unnecessarily bad rep in the Hercules movie. It's still a great movie so I can't really complain much, but seriously, they oversimplified things big time by transforming Hades into a Judeo-Christian notion of "evil." (In other words, Hades pretty much became...Satan?)
In real Greco-Roman mythology, with maybe one or two exceptions (like Athena, and then only if you were an Athenian,) all the Gods and Goddesses were far too damned complex and "human" to really be subverted into "good" or "evil" stereotypes. Zeus had a temper and flirted with everything with a skirt, Ares wreaked havoc with his wars, Poseidon had a temper, too, and a bit of an inferiority complex in regards to his brother, Hera was jealous of other women, Aphrodite was a whore, Artemis was quite possibly a lesbian who just frankly despised men, Hephestasus was deformed and had issues yet nonetheless ended up "technically" with Aphrodite through some ludicrousity...it was crazy. Crazy as in totally awesome.

I'm frankly shocked a real Greco-Roman mythology movie hasn't been done. You could have all sorts of classic storytelling devices, usually found in soap operas that appeal to women and war epics that appeal to men, in such a movie. And Gods that actually acted like human beings but that wielded unlimited powers? It'd appeal to everybody. Crazy shit up the wazoo.



Well the real problem with Greek mythology is that it started out quite simple but the gods were kind of abstract concepts- like Apollo is the god of refinement and civilisation and Zeus was the concept of Hellenism (as the Greeks saw it, not as the Roman historians saw it) but these all got terribly expanded and and played with by authors and playwrights and philosophers and by the end it became a mess and we're not sure how much of the stories we know are author embellishments and how many are canonical to Greek religion. I mean, we still don't even know lots about Greek religion, I mean what does the Athenian basileus actually do?, and all that we do know is loaded in the stories of authors. It's like studying christianity from the movies Passion of the Christ and the Ten Commandments.

We know a lot lot more about Roman religion but it is rather complicated because its an amalgamation of pretty much every religion in the regions the Romans took over and the amalgamation was confusing at times.

And if they were to make a mythology movie it had better be in the style of clash of the titans. Cause that was crazy awesome

Fifthfiend 08-02-2008 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by POS Industries (Post 818009)
.........I couldn't get past the massive deviations from the source material.

We are talking about Disney movies here. Deviation from source is pretty much a given.

Once you've accepted that the Little Mermaid doesn't die and Aladdin doesn't happen in China you might as well just say the hell with it altogether.

Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope 08-02-2008 11:04 PM

I am gonna say that Hercules is my favorite Disney movie. I have always been a sucker for the Greek Mythology and although it was no where near the same as the legends, I found it a great movie.

Ryong 08-02-2008 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fifthfiend (Post 818116)
We are talking about Disney movies here. Deviation from source is pretty much a given.

Once you've accepted that the Little Mermaid doesn't die and Aladdin doesn't happen in China you might as well just say the hell with it altogether.

Aladdin should've happened in China? I'm confused. Why?

Professor Smarmiarty 08-03-2008 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryong (Post 818131)
Aladdin should've happened in China? I'm confused. Why?

It was a middle-eastern tale but set in China as a suitable far off mystical land as far as I'm aware. Though I may be totally wrong about that.

Fifth has a point that we shouldn't expect Disney to be that accurate which in most cases is acceptable as there is need to modify the story to make a better movie that's more targeted at the audience.
I mean, look at what they did with Notre Dame. They took the tremendously hilarious womaniser and turned him into a gallant prince-like character, the odd though understable priest became a nefarious villain, the brutish Quasimodo became a kind gentle lead character (and they killed off what Hugo intended to be the actual main character, the Church).
Same thing with Hercules really. A story about an extra-marital birth with a man character who is a bit comically uncouth at times and eats all day and ends up killing all his family doesn't make a great children's movie.

Masked Jedi 08-03-2008 12:37 AM

I totally agree with what you've said about Hunchback. A really good way to look at the difference between the book and the movie: the titles. Notre Dame de Paris and Hunchback of Notre Dame. Totally different meanings.

But yeah. You've all mentioned great movies (especially Hunchback and Aladdin) but come on, no one sees fit to mention Alice in Wonderland or the Jungle Book? What is wrong with you?

I would also like to say that the run of movies from 101 Dalmatians to Greta Mouse Detective are all pretty awesome, and I feel they don't get enough love compared to the early or more recent stuff. Stuff like Aristocats, Robin Hood, Sword in the Stone, Rescuers, Fox and the Hound... The Black Cauldron's still pretty awful though.

Also, here's a list of all the animated movies Disney has made, since I've seen some people making mistakes.

Edit: Dammit, now I feel the need to get all the movies on that list except the sucky ones and watch them back-to-back.

Also, the Hamster Dance tune? It's from Robin Hood.


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