This latest comic makes me like a certain character a lot more and makes me fear for another one.

Pfff. Reduced death penalty. Everyone's gonna be okay.

No eye-Xes, not dead.

Also, I'm probably missing something, but am I missing something with Bozzok's little father-mindgame? Namely, what story is Haley 'not buying'?

Am I a bad person for liking Bozzok?

It has nothing to do with Haley, he just... speaks to me.

Her father was run out of the city at a young age and now he's been captured and thrown in jail, and that's what she's raising the money for, so she can buy him out.

Bozzok suggested that when he assumed power, he was doing things a little more Evil style, so that was when he forced Haley's father to skip town and frame him for all sorts of horrible things he wasn't guilty of, which might have been what got him in jail anyway.

That's what I understand, anyway. I'm not sure, there's not much information to go off of.

I believe some rogues are about to get their asses kicked.

One crowning moment of awesome coming up for Belkar.

Next comic will be fun.

I'm pumped! Now to wait a few days to become pumped again!

...This is going to make me go back to my old avatar.

Fuck it, off I go.

Also, wow, Haley's going to be really different with her hair all butchered.

She's just going to be all the more pissed and kick some ass.

Damn it, I just had a horrible thought.

Next three plus comics are all going to be about Durkon receiving the Sending, aren't they?

Fixed.

I mean, Elan said something about how he felt like he would never see any of them again. And Belkar was supposed to die at some point in the near future. The way I see it, it's entirely possible that NONE of them could make it out.

...Though another theory I have is that Belkar will do some crazy self-sacrifice to buy time for Celia, Haley and New Cleric to escape. It's possible that New Cleric will be able to heal Haley or maybe even bring Roy back to life if they find his bone golem.

I'd find it really hysterical if we found out that Shojo really was communicating from the afterlife to Belkar all along, and that Shojo intended to somehow build Belkar up to the point where Belkar would unwittingly sacrifice his own life to ensure that Celia and Haley escaped. I wouldn't put it past Shojo, he's a manipulative bastard who couldn't care less if Belkar has to sacrifice himself so long as OOTS can still defeat Xykon and maintain the fabric of the universe.

...it'd be kind of a sad end for Belkar, though. I anticipate Burlew will be just enough of a jerk to switch perspective to Durkon and/or V for the rest of the 2008 (maybe he'll do one or two more Belkar-centric strips but switch out during the next inevitable cliffhanger.) Then, Belkar dies in early 2009, just in time to make both elements of Burlew's prior statements correct, insofar as Belkar will die within the year "OOTS time" but it won't actually happen in 2008 "our time." (EDIT: He made a post on his website or the forums once to that effect. Or, rather, I think the Oracle said something to that effect.)

I don't think Belkar, what with his character growth being artificial, would be in a position to self-sacrifice for anyone. That's also probably what he meant by 'Belkar won't live to see his next birthday,' cause he changed for the first time in the comic.

Plus with him back in the game now, he's going to probably go out and gut Bozzok and Dumb Bitch. Favored Enemy: Human and all.

Also even if he does self-sacrifice himself for Haley and Celia and Cleric, death in this world is pretty reversible. The exception is obviously Celia, which is why I hope she isn't going to get killed.

Personally, I'm still waiting to find out what's going on with O'Chul.
That was his name, right? It's been a while.
But seriously there's a whole epic plotline there with a potential resistance among the prisoners inspired by O'Chul that's basically been dropped for some time.
Heck, Burlew could really mess with us and basically spend the rest of 2008 updating every other ongoing storyline. We have Xykon, Redcloak, O'Chul, the Monster, V, Durkon, Elan, Hinjo, Kasumi and Daigo...plenty enough characters to check up on. I wouldn't be surprised.

As for Belkar, I really think it'd be a cheap copout for the Oracle to heavily imply Belkar's demise and for aforementioned demise to never happen. It may not happen yet (a year OOTS time might still be a while, so maybe Belkar does survive this encounter,) but I'm expecting Belkar's death to come, and soon. Personally, it'd be pretty kickass if we all expect Belkar to die here, but he survives, only to be incinerated by our new crazy-antihero V the moment V finds them. I'm just saying, that'd be unexpected, poignant and hiliarious. I'm rooting for a Belkar-V showdown before either character dies just because it'd be so screwy to actually have the audience root for the chaotic evil character as the potential protagonist in a fight between PCs.

That would be pretty hilarious and unexpected, however I really think that Burlew is going for a sort of TMNT thing here; With one member gone, the whole team begins to fall apart. When Roy returns and Haley/Belkar are reunited with Durkon/Elan, everyone comes together. V just needs the everloving shit betrayed or beaten out of him for him to go, oh, right, my arrogance has gotten me to the point where I'm being emotionally detached from life and death simply because it slows me down, thus I'm now Evil and don't know it!

Cause seriously, this entire story arc of character development has some alignment changes going on. V is borderline Evil right now and Belkar's slowly gravitating towards Neutral Evil.

The thing with O'Chuul (I think two 'u's?) is that he's going to build it to where the CITD is going to gravitate towards the Good side of the street simply based on his nativity. Sort of how Fighter unwittingly is a proponent of Evil due to simply being blissfully unaware. Where it goes from there, I have no idea.

I think that Belkar will accidentally die. Goes around trying to kill all the people trying to kill Haley and them. It'll trick them into thinking he's going through character growth, by saving them as some form of niceness, while he's just doing it to kill stuff. Goes against the rogue in charge, who's name I can't recall, and get's killed Quigon style. Roy's ghost and Belkar's will have some nifty conversation. And then Belkar goes to OotS Hell, where he doesn't want to leave cuz he gets to go fight good guys forever.

OotS Hell = DND Hell, where Chaotic Evil characters go.

Which is not a nice place.

If characters are going to die they need a better reason to stay dead other than 'it's nice here,' really. Shojo and Therkla are good examples.

But didn't Evil dead people poof into OotS Heaven or some-such? Belkar likes to kill people. His entire character can pretty much be summed up that way. If he went somewhere where he could fight people for eternity, why would he leave?

Evil dead people didn't. They were an Evil adventuring party who could Plane Shift, so they went to the Good place to go fight. The afterlifes are just planes of existence in the DND world, and the people that Horace Greenhilt killed just thought it'd be fun to go there.

He wouldn't go somewhere to fight for eternity, he'd be sent to a place where his soul would be devoured by the god of all horrors, or sent to be flayed and killed and tortured for fun forever, or other such horrible things.

I haven't actually really cared about the official cosmologies in a very long time, but as I recall, the truly irredeemably evil sorts end up in hell as petitioners being tortured by demons. I could be off on that though. Like I said; I don't usually use the official cosmologies.

Anyway, I very much doubt Belkar's death is coming up in this scene. It's not impossible, but I don't think it's likely. All in all, it's probably a figurative thing, like Mirai suggested. That's what I always figured his "death" would be anyway. If he DOES actually die, I don't think it's going to be here. I don't think anyone here can take him, honestly. Belkar is savage and tenacious as hell, and there's only two characters present who could be of any threat to him. The rest are fodder.

Two points, Belkar is still the same guy, he is just pretending to have character growth. The other point is, if I recall correctly, the prediction was "Shall breath his last breath" and although that was the official prediction he more or less said he wasn't just gonna die, but die and stay dead

However, that quote can still be viewed the same way.

Regardless, I never said there's no way he'll die. I just think it's more likely that this is what was being referred to (there's always undeath too, which could easily fit that quote), and I think it's very unlikely that he'll die in this scene, though not impossible. Hell, knowing the Oracle, it could be that Belkar gets a ring of sustenance before the year is out.

More specifically, he's pretending to be civilised, which is something the old Belkar would never do. He has to change as a person in order to actually accomplish this. Shojo has effectively tricked him into having character growth by getting him to pretend to have character growth. Well, we have to see how it all plays out, but assuming his little breakthrough is actually a breakthrough (and it seems to be so), that's how I would view it. That's also why I think it's really Shojo who was talking to him, because it seems like just his sort of wiliness. Although, given Belkar's experiences over the past year, it could have just been him coming to a realisation, and imagining Shojo because he actually seemed to respect the guy somewhat.

Hell, civilisation itself could be viewed as one giant charade, and it was referred to as such in that little vision too. Belkar is going to be more conscious of the fact that he's playing the game, but pretending to be civilised is pretty much exactly the same as being civilised. The specific reasons for acting within the rules and systems of society are actually pretty much the same: There are social and legal consequences if you don't. Belkar experienced this firsthand, and getting someone like him to realise that his actions have consequences is a huge step. Pretty much the biggest step, I'd say.

Now, none of that means he has MORALS, but it does seem like he's being steered toward acting within the rules.

Edit: You also must have missed the bit where the question of Belkar's identity came up.

Edit: To put it maybe a bit more clearly; Belkar's vision outright states that civilisation (no capital C) is a game. It's all pretend. And pretending to pretend is still pretending. Huh, that wasn't clear at all. Oh well.

What makes you think he wouldn't act civilized? He'd say and do anything if it meant ultimately it let him do as he liked. For example, not killing the rest of the order of the stick from day one. He has often passed up killing because ultimately it would let him do more killing.

His motivation, personality, and morals are all exactly the same. He is acting civilized because he recognizes that it is advantagious for him to do so. That is nothing new. You do not change just because you pretend to. Nor is making that choice change as that choice is still driven by the same thought process.

Everything he's ever done ever. Up to now, he was incapable of putting on that front. His vision made that point itself.

he wasn't incapable, he hated the idea and saw no reason to bother. The vision showed him why he should bother, so he did.

Proof that he is fully capable of doing what he is told and not killing, the entire time he had the mark. Only reason he killed the oracle was because he wasn't aware he'd violate it. He is capable of following the rules he just normally chooses not to because he sees no reason to. Now he sees a reason, and it will ultimately allow him more of his sociopathic tendencies

That's the whole point. The character he was couldn't do it, largely due to his inability to accept that there are consequences for his actions. This is actually considered a big step in rehabilitating a criminal - not that I think Belkar himself will ever be THAT changed.

Again, as was stated in the comic itself; there's a huge difference between cheating at the game, and not playing the game at all.

That's not proof of anything. That was Belkar pretty much literally having a dagger held to his throat. He was under duress the entire time.

And if all of that isn't enough; the spell's passcode makes it pretty damn clear that this is exactly the sort of change it's supposed to bring about.

What makes you think he couldn't? I dont recall him ever lacking the ability to accept that fact. There were no consequences for his actions early on, unless you count killing his party members. Which he didn't because he knew there would be consequences for doing so.

Oh come on now. Prior to this revelation, Belkar had absolutely no respect for any "authority" outside of Roy, and the only reason why Belkar followed Roy was a fairly weak one, even by D+D standards. Belkar wanted a chance to kill as much stuff as he could and wreak as much destruction as possible, and the Order gave him an excuse to basically adventure around sticking his shiny daggers into bloody organs. In fact, whether Belkar was working for a good force or an evil one didn't matter to him; hence, why he so nearly betrayed his own party when granted the opportunity. There's no "bond of friendship" or "desire to protect society" that led Belkar to work with Roy in attempting to stop the Snarl and stop Xykon from exploiting it. Roy's motivation was "I have to keep Belkar here because he'll do more damage elsewhere," which is essentially true; if ever released from the Order, Belkar would probably sign up with the Linear Guild or any antagonistic force desiring his "services."

Belkar's entire personality is chaotic evil barely restrained by the sheer luck of the draw that he's working for the protagonists. (In fact, the reality that he is evil and yet still working for the protagonists only serves to prove he's chaotic...so chaotic and unpredictable, in fact, that he'd consider essentially "working for Roy.") Here Burlew is acknowledging that this personification for Belkar doesn't really work in the longterm; so long as Belkar continues on the rather shallow, one-dimensional path he's been on, there's really no acceptable explanation for him continuing to serve Roy as opposed to doing, well, whatever he wanted to. Earlier on, an acceptable explanation was simply that Belkar was (comparably) weak and he needed the XP. (He makes a big deal of XP gain in the beginning.) If Belkar ever wanted to kill everything he ever saw, he simply was "smart" enough to realize he wasn't strong enough to successfully do so. As Belkar grows in strength and experience, however, it's going to be increasingly difficult to justify him staying with the Order under any pretense.

Shojo redirecting Belkar here is a necessary and new development that essentially justifies Belkar growing as a character without actually knowing it. Shojo (or a halluncination of him, but I'd agree with anyone who believed it was actually, somehow, Shojo from the afterlife, as it sounds too much like the real deal and nothing like a persona of Belkar's) has now duped Belkar into believing that his goals would be best served functioning, at least by appearances, as a member of society.

There's just one problem with civilization. You can believe to your heart's content that you're manipulating the system or cheating discreetly, but everyone who is "playing the game" is, essentially, part of the game. What Shojo's done is forced Belkar to unwittingly become dependent on civilization. Think about it -- even tax evaders, mafia members, corrupt politicans, and shady arms dealers require civilization to thrive to make their living. Belkar the one-dimensional serial killer could simply watch the world burn and refuse to care (or actively participate in said chaos.) Belkar the manipulative, conniving usurper is going to believe he's making a mockery of "the system," all the while depending on said system to provide him the framework for his "dirty deeds."

Here's one final note: if Shojo (and now I'm referring to the real Shojo, as the MOJ system was the same for every criminal and the system worked long before his death) had actually never intended Belkar to change -- if Shojo believed it actually were possible for Belkar to remain himself -- the "evolve or die" mantra attached to the MOJ wouldn't make sense. After all, Belkar and the other criminals wouldn't be evolving. To suggest or imply that Shojo intended Belkar and the other criminals with MOJs to remain murderous psychopaths and just "pretend" to function in society is to do Shojo's characterization an immense disservice, as Shojo is not remotely evil, and even his chaotic side would never stoop so low. Shojo's goal isn't to give criminals excuses to get away with the kind of bullshit Shojo himself would never tolerate. His goal is as shady and manipulative as Shojo himself always was -- the MOJ victims are deceived through an MOJ induced "hallucination" (perhaps engineered by Shojo himself while living) to believe they can retain their independence, as this is the most effective way to actually reform them. The bottom line is Belkar's just been hosed into real character development and he's entirely oblivious to the ramifications of it. And as Belkar begins to exploit civilization, his prosperity will increasingly be tied to civilization's existence, to such an extent that he will ultimately be forced to defend it.

EDIT: One last fun metaphor!
Think of civilization as a never-ending series of poker games. Everyone's at the table, playing their decks, trying to win. Some are playing honestly and some aren't. Before, Belkar never approached the table; if the poker game and, in fact, the entire casino had been destroyed, Belkar wouldn't give a damn. In fact, he'd probably enjoy participating in said wanton destruction. The outcome of the poker games meant nothing to him; whether a particular player won or lost was irrelevant to his interests.
Now, Belkar is convinced by Shojo to join the poker game, but Shojo has told Belkar that Belkar can do so and profit immensely from it; he can cheat at the poker game, thus ensuring that he wins the vast majority of the time. Shojo tells Belkar that in doing so, Belkar can achieve his dreams discreetly, and still participate in his favored hobbies on the side.

Now, imagine someone attempts to end the poker game. Imagine someone tries to destroy the casino. Or, maybe someone just wants to take over the casino, and transform the casino into a garbage disposal site.
Suddenly, an action that otherwise wouldn't have mattered at all to Belkar is going to piss him off, as he's come to enjoy exploiting the poker game, and he doesn't want to stop winning.

Bingo! Shojo's hidden objective is achieved. Belkar is a poker (or civilization) addict! He depends on the system. He enjoys cheating at it too much. He can't function without it. He will honestly defend it with every ounce of his energy. And, though he'll always remain eccentric at best and outright evil at worst, his dependence will manifest itself in such a way as to ensure he protects society from others who would seek to destroy it. A tiny bit of cheating or undermining barely makes much a difference in the greater scheme of things, so Shojo will gladly tolerate Belkar's occasional misdeeds so long as civilization itself survives.

Everything Solid Snake said, and also just think about it.

Shojo basically was the third devil on his shoulder that explained that he needs to serve 'the greater Belkar'. Except that Belkar was too stupid in his own way to understand that adhering to the rules (even if only in a facade) was the best way to stay alive and continue to be able to kill things with reckless abandon.

Shojo, the master of bypassing laws, someone (or for that matter, probably the only one) that Belkar respects, was the only person who could tell him that. Roy and everyone else in the Order was trying to beat him over the head with it. And, like a stubborn teenager, all he did was snub his nose at the information at every turn.

It just took a peer to have Belkar listen.

A theme which has been touched on by OotS before - sort of - with Haley's description of the shell game.

I believe that Belkar may have just redefined badass.

EDIT: Also, this pretty much confirms that Mr. Scruffy is Belkar's animal companion.

SEXY.

SHOELESS.

GOD OF WAR.

Didn't realize how much I missed Belkar's antics til this comic. He better not die anyway but metaphorically.

That highway line was pretty classic too.

XD That was amazing.

My playlist flipped over to the main theme from Back to the Future right when I started reading that comic. It was oddly appropriate.

My words after reading this comic were, "Nice, Belkar, nice." I feel like I'll be able to stand by those sentiments in the morning; he really helps the story move along. And Mr. Scruffy helping: I can only sum it up with "OMG High-larious."

...It's updates like these that remind me why OOTS is my favorite webcomic on the interwebs, simplistic art style and all.

Belkar, generally, wasn't a character I liked before.

But damn, he was awesome.

I gotta say this wouldn't be nearly as badass if it wasn't for the entire 100+ pages of setup.

But it was.

Therefore, awesome.

Maybe now we can finally get this plot movin'.

I'm very glad I changed my avatar before this comic.

I don't see much of a difference to the old Belkar http://www.nuklearforums.com/pictur...1&pictureid=24

HOLY CRAP THAT WAS ALL IN INITIATIVE ORDER

Burlew is good.

Not yet. But after the battle, I think we'll see a change.

I've been waiting for this moment in this comic for quite a while. It feels good. So good.

Someday, I may have of make a list of the greatest individual strips in webcomics history. This will be on it.

Seriously, any falling out me and OotS may have had in the past few months, all is forgiven. This strip is the most fucking awesome thing I've seen all year.

New comic.

Good to see Blind Pete getting comeuppance.

"Brainy Pete."

Thunk
Thunk
CRACK
squelch

That was nearly as cool as the last one. Also Belkar's spreading the word, that can't be good.

That was pretty dark. But, hey, evidence of a new, more evil Belkar. Instead of just killing making a hat out of Pete, he went all Saw on him and had his friend off him.

Don't leave, nameless cleric! You're more interesting than the couple with the pregnant chick who do have names but I can't even be bothered to remember them!

visually interesting, at least

Hm... The site seems to be down. Or, at the very least, something is preventing me from accessing it.

A couple minor grammatical errors in this comic prevented me from enjoying it quite as much as I wanted to.

What grammatical errors? I didnt see any.

Kasumi and Daigo are the name of the elevated-mooks. He said he was skipping town that night, so I suspect we'll see him not to long in the future.

Yeah, I just figured out the visual thing. It's darker, to represent the evilness of the city they're in.

I don't think I've ever seen Belkar so happy before. Usually he has that perpetual evil grin when he's killing. Now he just seems like a small child set loose with $100 in a discount candy store.

Belkar is putting his fake character growth into place....

And it is awesome.

I always knew the "drop your buckler to grab your weapon with two hands" tactic had to have a fundamental flaw somewhere, but I never could put my finger on it.

Belkar's a seasoned warrior?!

Looks like part of his character growth is actually using his class abilities.

Honestly, with the way Belkar has behaved throughout the comic, its been very easy to forget that he's a warrior at his core.

I wonder if he'll go berserk(or whatever the barbarian ability is). That could be fun.

These sorts of comics make me wonder what build the class is.

Since they're using 3.5 it seems odd that he'd be able to take a warrior/rogue and a rogue/assassin on by himself and defend someone's body at the same time, since Rangers got kicked down a notch on HP/AC and up in damage (Sorta, read the first comic).

You know I keep getting tempted to change my avatar but OOTS just keeps bringing me back to "Oh Man I'm Glad I Didn't."

You remember that he's a Barbarian too, right? And I think every level he's gotten since his first Barbarian level has been put into Barbarian (and I can not recall why I think this). So, he's a pretty good fighter now, BAB-wise anyway.

That's assumed he gained levels; 3e works much slower, OOTS being plot-based slows down character level growth, and I remember him getting a level and starting to dance before the wight level drained him.

I dont think he leveled much if at all. He has just always been much better at combat then the others.

There's also the fact that several of the characters that were killed early on had no names and therefore were just level 1-7 lackeys.

As OOTS has already shown, those without names are pretty much doomed to be killed, the exception is Nameless Cleric but that's because he has a name, Burlew just won't tell you.

Man Celia is a DITZ.

Also, poor Pete..... with the den having an armoury like that, it makes it even more likely he was actually coming back to help.

And now Haley gets an appropriate-level bow. Good!

EDIT: I want her to get the cool recurve green bow on the left but I just know he's going to turn it into a joke and make her pick the one on the far right that's exactly like her old one but comes with a new Thundering effect or something.

Part of me agrees with you, but another part of me thinks we're going through an art upgrade as things start coming together for Roy's resurrection.

Not really. Remember, Pete had got his eyes healed before; he just got them stabbed out again. If he wanted to get his eyes healed and then turn around and start sniping Thieves Guild mofos for revenge, he'd have had his cleric buddy do it and picked his fight when he had the element of surprise and a pair of high-level PCs on his side.

I hadn't considered that, good point.

Blind Pete's a dick. And he now has his skull crushed in.

No one worries about the Cleric getting pissed off until they see a mace kissing the spot between their eyes.

I keep flip-flopping because that's exactly what is the strong argument for the other side.

Turns out the answer lay somewhere in between. More of an art SHIFT, it seems.

You people are letting me down in the "knowing when an update is" department. Not that this is a super awesome mega fudgy update, but at least it moves the story long.

All the same, I totally called it when I said bow on the far right.

Heheheh, she ain't too bright.

Is it possible that the new Belkar is even more horrible than the old Belkar?

To quote an OOTS forum-goer: "Just killing indiscriminately is easy. But a thinking sociopath is a real problem."

I guess Shojo's plan to re-institutionalize Belkar could backfire. Belkar might just be too smart to fall for the same kind of manipulation that would work on any petty criminal.

I dunno I think that Belkar kind of likes a version of him that gets to be a witty three-foot whirlwind of death, regardless of the con artistry that gets him there.

I disagree merely because Belkar was always witty

Well yeah but now his own party can like him to a certain degree. That was what I was referring to.

- Belkar.

I guess there are a few definitions. It still works just as well though.

... guy doesn't even swipe the +4 dagger? What's with these people?