My memory might be faulty, but I always thought Belkar was rather attatched to his current daggers

It's good money plus it's only reasonable to not leave powerful weapons with opponents that are (even only technically) still alive.

Signature weapon isn't separated from the designated nemesis until they're dead. I mean, come on, Belkar knows that.

I like how OOTS characters are all perfectly in touch with the fact that they're fiction, and yet whenever you justify their actions with that knowledge it doesn't feel very forced.

It'd be another art upgrade and one that didn't allow Burlew to do a very simple design.

Unless Belkar picked it up and it ploinked into his current dagger design.

I kind of find myself hoping that Bad Haircut gets swapped to being Belkar's anti-nemesis. Like she could get all vengeancey against him over this thing, then show up every couple hundred comics or whatev and try to pick a fight with him and he completely chumps her and laughs as he leaves her for near-dead. Burlew could switch the leveling thing agaisnt her so she's perpetually just high leveled enough that he can totally kick the crap out of her without breaking a sweat. It'd be a great little reward, like "hey so now that you're pretending to be a good guy, here's someone you can repeatedly beat the tar out of without ever having to even fake feeling bad about."

Well just taking score, so far he's stabbed someone to almost-death and left her laying in agony, and set an old man up to be bludgeoned to death by his former best friend.

So, yes.

yea but old Belkar was gonna let HIMSELF die, just so a paladin would betray her churches laws and strip her of the very thing she based her life and personality around

New comic. Hoorah. Good times. I have to say, a vampire thief would be quite cool.

He needs a new Goddamn server.

I completely fucking agree.

It's even worse for us who go to the GiantITP forums. Every single time, literally, a new comic is released, either the forums are shut down for a while to ease traffic flow, or you just can't get to them, because it takes about an hour to load.

Great comic though. Hopefully, Rich has caught onto the fact that Celia's becoming increasingly Flanderized.

New comic. Go read it. Made me giggle.

I can't help but notice that the New Haircut Haley looks strikingly similar to the Part of Haley That Wants To Get Back To Comedy.

Not sure if it's a coincidence or foreshadowing but still.

I can't see it as not being somewhat relevant.

Its probably half reference/joke (she wants to get back to the comedy) half coincidence.


Either way, its interesting.

New comic.

I am both intensely glad for Celia saving us all from the Arnie pun as well as upset that the joke instantly went directly to MMO-speak.

Great comic though.

This comic felt pretty weak when compared to some of other recent ones.

Everything felt weak compared to the last few weeks.

I mean come on, Belkar's return was awesome, he's going to try and get us back on course now.

Gotta agree with Mirai (who I refuse to refer to as "Dante Must Die" despite his changed username.)

If Mr. Burlew tried to write every comic to match the "epic awesomeness" of #611, he'd have to forgo a plot, ruin a great deal of his character's personalities, and destroy the integrity of the story. And what we'd be left with is some campy "300" parody where every character kicked inordinate amounts of ass every strip, but it all felt utterly contrived. It's necessary to have moments where the action pauses, the characters take deep breaths, and the situation is reassessed, and it's pretty inevitable that the jokes are going to run a tad stale whenever a strip is used for "plot reorienting" purposes.

Just think of this strip and others like it as the necessary setup for the next epic badass moment, whenever it comes. My guess is it's going to involve a very different, darker V finally meeting up with Belkar and Haley, and Haley pissing V off with incessant questions about Elan's safety, which inevitably leads to a brawl. I think I already predicted that one earlier, though.

I'm getting used to that.
Yeah I get the distinct feeling that V's totally great idea of leaving the party is going to really blow up in his face when he meets his friends.

It might just be because it's 1 in the morning and I'm tired, but the last two panels of this update made me burst into uncontrollable laughter.

Sweet lord I love the "new" Belkar. He's so quick to adapt.

That was hilarious. He seems to have more fun screwing with them than killing people.

New comic.

Oh god Celia is dumb.

EDIT: OOH, oh man, isn't Haley trying to spring her dad out? Oh god that must suck.

I guess she could leave the guild. Again.

It's a net gain on her part technically. Especially if she can convince them to resurrect Roy before she leaves.

And here I was thinking something would, for a change, actually get resolved.

Still a good episode but come on

He's running this money train till it runs out of rail, I guess.

I think in his attempts to foil people who guess what's going to happen next he's forgotten how to write a story arc that resolves.

As I understand it, he specifically discourages exactly those kinds of posts, specifically to prevent being tempted one way or another.

I mean who is he, Brian?

I think the big deal is that she doesn't actually have 50% of everything she's stolen since she left the guild - a lot of it got destroyed in a fire, as I recall.

I think OOTS is falling into 8BT's age-old trap of a webcomic that's almost become too successful for its own good. As much as Brian always likes to mention the sheer incompetence of his characters as a justification for why it takes so long to get from point A to point B, there are perfectly incompetent ways 8BT could have ended a couple hundred comics ago. Whether consciously or subconsciously, however, if the webcomic's what you're well known for and if the praise you receive for it is endless, why would you dare end such a source of income when you can stretch it out with another several hundred comics of mishaps? That's why I'll be pleasantly surprised if Brian actually does resolve things and pull the plug in 2009.

Likewise with OOTS, but I have to say Burlew's biggest issue in juggling his strip is that he can't rely on the incompetence of his characters to stretch the length of his story. So instead he relies on some out-of-left field plot twists and he also relies heavily on "over-narration" -- using three or four strips to tell the same story that could have been equally effectively conveyed in one.

Mind you, I don't particularly care in either case. Brian and Rich have both crafted extraordinary stories and this is the webcomic's variation of the age-old movie apparatus of relying on endless sequels to maximize the value of a successful franchise. And they're both good enough writers to make the updates worth reading and enjoying. So long as OOTS is the cash cow that it is today, I have no expectations that the plot won't crawl at anything but a snail's pace. So long as Rich actually continues finding decent justifications for the holdups, I'll enjoy it.

No, its seemed to me like 8-bit has been on the brink of it's end for a while now. Ever since they entered the temple of fiends, its seemed like theres nothing left but a little bit of random shenaniganry before its over anyway, so I won't complain. Although I am eager for him to finally get Warbot moving.

Moving away from 8-Bit comparisons, I agree with SS on this one. He's crafting a story and he's going to keep crafting a story as long as the story needs him to craft it, engineered profit regardless; it's still an entertaining read and I'm still completely hooked.

Honestly this latest plot twist actually made sense to me and I didn't get bugged at all - Celia is exactly airheaded enough to not realize exactly what she's done, and I could see absolutely no other way to get the guild to cooperate.

I've recently noticed I've been reading out of obligation ever since Azure City. I wasn't really enjoying it, and I've come to notice a lot of what once made the comic great is currently missing. It's lost it's fun DND humor and weighed itself down with THIS IS TOTALLY SERIOUS STORY GUYS. It's also quickly becoming wall of text city, and I'm starting to wonder if it wouldn't be better if he just wrote it out in serial novella format.

I disagree so utterly. The comic couldn't run itself on DND3 jokes forever and when he got out of the mountain he decided to craft a serious story. And it's really well written.

'Weighing itself down' indeed.

8-Bit's stuck with the same type of jokes pretty consistantly for 8 years now, and has 460 more strips than OOTS.

Anyway, he still utilizes those DND jokes, in much the same manner, and at this point it totally destroys the tension he's otherwise building up by indirectly puncturing the fourth wall. The two things he's trying to do don't mesh well at all, and he either needs to drop one or the other.

It's like it's trying to be the old comic while also trying to be something new and exciting, and the dischord between the two make it rather uncomfortable to be around.

I'm almost positive you're alone on that one. Just try browsing the OOTS forum - a huge majority of the members have to go to a specific thread where they ask what the joke meant, because it referenced DND and they haven't played it but they read OOTS anyway.

And about the destroying-tension thing, that's just plain not true.

It's exactly how I feel, and how many other people I talk to feel. You might not feel that way, but it's certainly not an uncommon sentiment. This is not an objective point with a True/False answer.

Okay yes it is your opinion but it seems strange to say that OOTS' comedy segments destroy the tension of the serious story when, I dunno, Scary Go Round or Lackadaisy has the same structure yet I don't hear similar complaints.

It does make perfect sense; I just would rather it had made sense somewhere else, like in a story arc that's not loaded with mini-plot twists already.

I've actually enjoyed the dramatic twist because there's still a lot of DnD humor and the story is quite enjoyable. The two mixing doesn't really bother me, nor does the fourth wall breaking, because it's universal all around for every character. I suppose what he's trying to do is have a serious story with no fourth wall.

New comic. Belkar got laid.

Yes.

Yes he did.

I like the fact that Celia and Haley started off hating each other, then liked each other because it was the first time Haley had a chance to get girl-talk done with anyone, now they hate each other again. It really strikes me as perfect considering Celia is dumb as hell sometimes yet she consistently manages to be clever in her own nonviolent, pacifist sort of way. It contrasts perfectly with Haley's adventurer kill-or-be-killed intelligence.

Really Belkar, both fuckin' sandwiches?

I would have been thoroughly upset if he actually brought her any food at all.

He's a sexy shoeless God of war...of course he needs two sandwiches.

I wouldn't know the appropriate TV trope to link to, but afraid Belkar's starting to fall into that stereotypical "badass who can't do anything wrong" trope.

I mean the thing about old Belkar was that his homicidal rage was a character flaw that arguably got him into more trouble than it was worth. This new, smarter, more devious Belkar might be a bit too awesome for my tastes. I prefer well-rounded characters who have serious issues. Right now, Belkar's in dire need of some issues.

I have zero doubt that Roy will see right through Belkar's act.

If he ever gets resurrected, that is.

There's also the fact that Belkar basically just had his moment in the sun, and he really hasn't had one of those through the entire OOTS history.

I think it's a bit too early to call The Ace on him.

The Ace wasn't exactly the trope I was looking for -- it's too heroic an image for Belkar. I was thinking more the stereotypical Badass character who always wins just because he's the antihero Badass who doesn't mind doing dirty things to get The Job Done and perform with extraterrestrial levels of gusto and machismo.

I think it's pretty obvious that Belkar is going to have the figurative carpet pulled out from under him. It's a story. Not just a story, a comic. Not just a comic, a webcomic. Nobody gets to be that happy for very long. Science fact.

Being honest? I think you're looking a bit too much in the returning joke of the chick that Belkar smooched to death.

Because take away that and he's just the same Belkar, minus his unrestrained sociopathy. I'm sure that eventually Belkar's going to show his own stupidity coming back.

EDIT: To bite him in the ass, of course.

V looks worse than Belkar did.

I am so happy I am not the only one is sick to death of dead Roy. He needs to be resurrected already!

I still say it should look like they're about to resurrect Roy, and then it turns out they can't. Ever. And he is never in the story again, just as the biggest "fuck you" to the fans.

Why do that when they could get ready to ressurect him, just to cut away to another story arc

Why not do both?

because you can only spit in the eye of your fans so many times before you self destruct, and as I said with the whole hobbit psycho thing I give him more credit then pulling a stunt like that

Roy is too central to the plot to stay dead and they're setting up entirely too much for the "Aw YEAH!" moment when he comes back to life. The training for the 'disrupting spellcaster' ability he learned from his grandfather alone.

All this and no mention of the character drama and plot foreshadowing. :(

Gah, new comic? Man I really need to keep up.

I find it interesting that in a matter of one comic I feel more sorry for V than I did before, where I thought he was being a jackass. He still is, but now I get more of the compulsion.

Though I do have to wonder exactly what about his dream terrifies him - the Sapphire Guard dying before him, the fact that his magic is useless, or the fact that he has to relive being in a war scenario without any magic left. I'm leaning more towards #3.

I'm going to say all of the above. Being in the middle of a war with people dying all around him because his magic has proven utterly impotent in the face of the enemy sounds like that character's trifecta of personal horror. Especially when he's been perpetually failing at his one self-imposed mission since the previous disaster.

Anyway I was really just stopping in here to say I enjoyed Burlew's dig at his audience. Although I think what Varsuvius is really looking for is a D&Dverse version of TVTropes.org.

New comic.

If V really is falling to the Dark Side, he's putting up a hell of a fight. I'm actually really interested to see where this is going since I completely don't know now if the imp is going to be successful or not.

Did I mention that I like V?

'cause I like V.

nice, a few times I thought he would but, nope blah blah come to the dark side blah blah, disintigrate

oh and a D&D question, wasn't level 10 the point where wizards reach city nuking level?

What, you think V couldn't nuke a city?

...and no, I don't think that's it anymore, though I haven't played DnD in ages, and never that far. I think in 4E it's level 21 that's city-nuking, but I'm not sure.

I doubt its 4e though as it didn't exist when this started

I don't have my PHB on me but I'd say that V is not yet on the city-nuking stage yet, but I'm not sure. I might edit this post with facts later.

Is that city-nuking stage as in "powerful spells are available to every wizard" or as in "with the precisely right combination of levels and feats from 7 sourcebooks and at least two interpretations of the rules you desperately hope your DM won't think about too hard"?

I'm not sure about nuking, but from what I've heard of DnD anecdotes a lv 10+ wizard is certainly capable of at least depopulating a city.

New episode, anyway. V isn't as unhinged as some readers think he is, apparently.

I guess I'm coming back to this.

Belkar was just convinced that he had to completely change his mindset in order to advance and profit. Assuming that he did so and everything wasn't going right for him, what would he say? "Fuck this, I'm just going back to being a homicidal maniac." Things have to go right for him in the beginning in order for his character to advance at all. He has to see the profit in order to continue on his path.

There's more than enough time to hit him with the drawbacks. A rise can be a setup for a fall.
He is an arrogant elf who had it just thrown in his face that he's not actually all-powerful. He is powerless to help those who rely on him. It seems to be showing that his search for power is not just because he has own visions of grandeur for himself, but because he has expectations he seems he needs to fulfill.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...InvincibleHero ?

...Actually kind of more

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JerkassStu

...and for that matter, the one where they've got his picture as the example:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...eroicSociopath

Ok, every time someone links to TV Tropes, I lose an hour of my day. I hate you all so much for it, but you're providing me with useless trivia. I really can't complain.

The really hilarious ironic part of it is that the only thing TV Tropes mentions about the more recent changes on Belkar's part is 'recent Mark of Justice arc notwithstanding,' despite the fact that the entire point is to change him from the trope to something else (Which will be on TV Tropes, but eh, that's the 'net for you).

...but as I said, still, I really think that Belkar is just having a moment in the sun, no different than when Elan got his own personal 'breakout' moment of awesome. Belkar's got a hoe for a reference to an earlier joke whereas Elan got the girl. They really aren't that different, and I doubt that this trend is going to continue - remember that Elan is still dumb as a bag of hammers and powerless to change the situation around him. I see a similar situation in Belkar's immediate future.

HOLY CRAP EDIT: Um, new comic.

Wow.

Everyone join hands now, all together, "Wait, what?!"

Hey isn't that the dragon they fought way back in the first arc after V was turned into a lizard

Apparently.

Go ahead and insert your own 'he got better' joke here.

It's the dragon's mother. The dragon V killed was the teenage (by dragon years) son of the real guardian of the cave.

Woah. Green boots/Belt of Gender Swap vibe going on there.

I simply don't expect most writers to layer on that kind of foresight to a webcomic these days. Burlew is good.

Just an hour? You're the lucky one. I usually lose no less than two-and-a-half.

well he might not have planned it ahead of time

Are we talking hours or days :(

/edit. I agree with Aerozord. Burlew might have been going through his old files and went hey, that would be funny/cool to bring back the dragon.

Holy shit rapid update. The Black Dragon is badass. What words do wizards not want to hear?

Anti Magic Field.