V just got his shit rocked. I'm glad of it, and curious to see how he comes out of this one. I'm wondering if this is what will make him join the demon, or what's gonna happen. That said, little douche kinda deserved it.

well this would show him that he does need others and that magic cant solve everything. Although it would be less dramatic I would hope this would lead hm back to the others and he learns to be part of a group. However I find it more likely this will go the more dramatic but cliche route of him teaming up with the imp and ultimately doing evil things probably with some redemption later down the road

Spoiler warning's already in the title, guys.

Is it really? Are we sure about that?

[EDIT] It is!

I just saw other people using the spoilers so I figured I'd go along with it.

Sorry bout that, I posted right after the comic surprisingly came up and the topic was still active. So I figured it was reasonable for people to enter thinking the discussion was on the last comic, seeing as it has never updated this fast as long as I've been reading.

There is something to be said about his update schedule. It's either a week of nothing or two comics in a day.

I'm thinking #3 is going to go up tonight/tomorrow.

Regardless I'm curious how V is going to get out of this, if at all.

I could actually totally see V dying and going to "Not D&D Heaven" or some such, and at that point teaming up with the demon.

I'm calling a last minute Navy Fleet rescue, although it might not end with the dragon's death.

Also, what's the survival chance like for a similar situation in-game? I would have to imagine that a sleep deprived squishy wizard couldn't survive (m)any such attacks by a big ol' dragon.

V is, simply put, fucked.

Unless we're talking some serious divine intervention (Durkon) he's really screwed.

As if VV needed it thrown in his face again how utterly powerless he is. His magic is failing him all over the place...

Maybe if he didn't invest so much of his life into it and only it, thereby abandoning his friends and innocent people, this sort of thing wouldn't happen.

I think realizing magic is not the end all be all solution to everything would cause his mind to crash. His mind set isn't "my magic failed but maybe there was another way to win" its "my magic failed so obviously I didn't use it right"

Yeah so V is right proper fucked.

As the dragon said, with out magic, he is a point eared ape, but he is still a dragon.

Well, perhaps V and Roy can rub elbows up in the celestial plane.

I'm not so sure V would go to celestial. He's been a dick and abandoned his friends, refused to help when it was inconvenient, and probably other things worth sending him to "not celestial plane".

That 'But I am still a dragon' line was pretty great.

Well, yeah, he kinda did.

I'm pretty sure Burlew is quite simply setting it up so that, at some point, eventually, V is going to run out of ways to 'use it right.' And then, V is going to have a complete and utter breakdown.

Or Quaar is going to seduce him to the Dark Side and give him complete and utter arcane power at the cost of his humanity and friends and team.

Either way!

I wonder if this is about the time where V says the wrong words to the wrong person at the right time, or whatever the hell the Oracle's prophecy was?

Pretty sure. "Right four words at the right time at the right being for all the wrong reasons."

Desintigrate. Gust of Wind. I forget who pointed it out to me but all signs point to yes.

He did it for simplicity's sake (which is completely wrong and evil), and unless I miss my guess Quarr is going to lure him all Sith style. Which would be pretty Dr. Horrible of Burlew, and I'd love it.

He works his entire life to get complete and utter arcane power, and then when he finally gets it he loses everything that really mattered to him in the first place.

As I said I'd hate it, so cliche'. Member X has a falling out with group Y so he joins group Z.

Though I have a feeling when the prophecies are fulfilled we will know it. Desintigrate. Gust of Wind, were spell activations. Something tells me when the prophecy is fulfilled those words will be mere words. I mean he didn't actually say Desintigrate. Gust of Wind to anyone. He said them merely as an attack and wasn't addressing anyone. For the prophecy he'd have to direct those words at someone. Yes you could argue he was saying to the guy he attacked. But then he only said one word to him Disintigrate, and Gust of Wind, to a pile of dust

I think, based on Belkar's prophecy coming to fruition, that there are going to be alot of "wrong four words" that lead V down the path, and then finally we'll see "I accept your offer" or something similar that is the definitive four words.

what was V's question anyways? I know the prophecy, but I forgot what it answered

When will I achieve total and complete arcane power, I think.

And regardless, keep in mind the Oracle was a jerk. He said that Belkar caused the death of Roy and Miko and Windstriker despite the fact that it wasn't even close. He probably made that prophecy with the sort of 'loose terminology' in the same vein.

That wasn't a prophecy, that was him trying to talk Belkar (and himself) into believing that the prophecy had been fulfilled, so that Belkar wouldn't fulfill the prophecy by killing him, which Belkar did.

His actual prophecy to Belkar, in response to "Will I get to kill anyone from the above list" was "yes" which was 100% correct.

I had thought the Oracle was kind of doing a Dr Manhattan thing, where he knows what's going to happen but he can't stop it so he just kind of does his thing, IE, when he told Belkar all that he had no problem specifically doing it because he knew he was going to get killed, which is why he got the clerics to Ressurect him. And it wasn't the first time or the last, as he makes clear in the same comic.

There's also the fact that the first off-screen thing the Oracle tells them is that Xykon is "in the throne room."

Maybe it's just my interpretation but the Oracle has always been a weasley little bastard.

EDIT: Twiddy; I see that as being the exact opposite of a cliche.

Except from the way I see it, that's not what's going on. He's not having a falling out, everything's he's doing right now is (in his point of view) meant to help the party. He was a jerk about it, but his ultimate goal is to find Roy (aka his corpse) and bring it back to normal so they can complete the quest. Him asking for help from the imp wouldn't be because he had a conflict of ideas with the Order and now thinks the Evil team are in the right, but because he'd be trying to use the evil team as a tool to help his party. Minor difference, and still a cliche.

Basically, my reading of him breaking off with the Team and the dream is more or less because he is really trying to finish the quest and help everyone out. However, his own sense of uselessness and the team not sharing his tenacity for the goal is frustrating him.

So he's an entirely different cliche. He has all the right intentions, but is going about it all the wrong way. The only difference he's having with the similar kind of villain is that his immediate end goal is the same as the Order's.

part of what makes the oracle the oracle is his prophecies are always 100% accurate and litteral. We have not seen any indication this wasn't true

Well we haven't not seen it either. You can't prove a negative, especially with an ongoing and unfinished comic.

Well, it's a more noticeable cliche when you look at it from a different perspective. Namely, "embracing the power of darkness because you know you can control it and it can help you make your rabbit farm full of cute cuddly rabbits." And those don't ever end well.

This is all of course if he actually takes the imp's bargain. It's entirely possible (almost likely) that the Giant has another outcome in mind that'll make perfect sense after the fact.
It's impossible to prove until the comic's done, but evidence is weighing toward Aerozord's point (if my knowledge of the comic strip isn't failing me).

though I am the one trying to prove the negative, as I am trying to prove something never happens. It is possible to prove yours if at some point it isn't completely 100% accurate and litteral. But until then I'm going with good old pattern reconition. So far each of his prophecies have been, so I'm placing my money on the fact they will continue to be.

So. New comic. Read first.






So, V's got kids.

How about that, huh?

That "Nothing!" line is one of the best uses of that vibration effect I've ever seen.

We're actually gonna hear something about VV's back story? Bull. This is all just a scam!

Also, wow, not only was the spit flying a nice affect to show how angry the Dragon was, but that it was seemingly burning through the ground was a nice touch. Having no idea what the actual powers of this specific dragon are (I have never played DnD) and forgetting anything about the last encounter, it was a nice hint at how deadly this dragon was.

Black dragons breathe acid in D&D. I didn't even notice the droplets burning in the ground, that's a very nice touch (and, as you said, a good hint for non-players).

Black dragons have a line of acid for a breath weapon. Green dragons have a cone of corrosive gas breath weapon. They would have made a cute couple.

but wasn't it mentioned before that V had a family? I think I recall a spouse being mentioned which bugged everyone since V used spouse as opposed to husband or wife.

All that's mentioned is that V is married.

What's funny is that in the printed book Burlew specifically promised that, before the comic had gone through its finish, V's mate would appear.

I never expected his kids to show up too.

On the comic itself; This, to me, is completely hilarious. V now has to ask someone for help at stopping the dragon from slaughtering his family. He can't go back to his friends that he abandoned, is he going to trust the imp if only to help his family? This is exactly the kind of thing that made the Star Wars Ep 3 book more interesting than the movie, and I'm really anxious to keep up with it.

I am really hoping the Imp's only purpose was to get V to waste his spells. As i said before the dark side temptation thing is so overdone, and this would be an unexpected change

I am going to say I hope Burlew doesn't cop out and have V kick dragon's ass upon hearing the fate of his/her children. Burlew is a good writer and good story teller, so I know or at least hope he won't do that.

I wonder what the imp will do. Is he strong enough to help V against the dragon, or will the imp run off with his pointed tail between it's wings.

I'm going to guess that either the Imp barters with the Dragon or with V to warn his children/keep them safe, making V indebted to the Imp for a later time.

But yes, I enjoyed this latest strip very much. It was quite touching in terms of mothering apart from the rampant death threats.

Wait wait wait. Back it up; DRAGONS have lives outside being giant XP/treasure hordes? Shit, I have a lot of apologies to make.

Alternate response: Oh like you've never killed anyone who didn't deserve it.

Bitch bitch bitch. That's all I'm hearing.

For a huge dragon, you sure hold grudges. Either eat the dude/tte, or just go off to kill his/her kids already. (Since I'm not entirely convinced that V is a guy)

I think the Imp has a chance to be a genuinely interesting character.

Rather than corrupting V, what if he earnestly means what he said, that he is attaching himself to what he perceives to be the most powerful creature he can?
Just tagging along behind, chiming in with the odd spell of unholy power.

Considering how long dragons live it doesn't really surprise me that this one is going to the kind of effort it is to get revenge. This dragon obviously knows a great deal about V and knows V wouldn't know if his/her kids were eaten thus the big show about it.

As for its spit dissolving the ground, that's the kind of attention to detail that makes me love OotS so much.

I dunno. If it were me, I'd have just offed the kids and made sure no one went running off to V about it. Then the wizard would get all of the adventuring done, would start to head home and daydream about being reunited with his/her children, and would have such grand hopes, and then arrive to find them all dead.

And realize that not only were they dead because he/she wasn't there to protect them, but they were such horrible parents that they didn't even KNOW their brood had been killed until after their fun was over.

THAT would hit hard.

yea but wouldn't work well as a story point.

Honestly I'm expecting something like
V: How did you know about my children!?
Dragon: I didn't, you just told me

Though that kind of thing the oracle could have said, but I assume there are limits to how much information they can get from him. Otherwise V's moment of weakness could have also been named thus removing the need for the dragon to find out herself.

Raiden's idea would be a good move if you wanted a player to never come back to the table after the campaign.

"Ok guys, the game's over, how do your guys ride into the sunset?"

"I go back to my loving spouse and children."

"Ooh, sorry, they were killed by a dragon while you were questing. Tough break."

It is a very dragon-y thing to go for they delayed satisfaction. Maybe she just doesn't trust V to survive the campaign, so she's getting her revenge while V's still alive.

On V's kids: Keep in mind the dragon is a spellcaster and a dragon. Magic scrying lets you do almost anything, along with his intel and the ability to fly he can find out anything he wants.

I think if you were to go up to Mrs. Dragon and ask her "Excuse me Ma'am but are you really sure your anger here is fully justified from the standpoint of an enlightened, broad-view take on morality?", her answer would be something like "Perhaps it has escaped your attention good sir, but I am a motherfucking dragon." Followed by burning your face off.

FYIAAD never felt so appropriate as this thread.

Well, part of the revenge is that the dragon has the exact same strengths as V except is innately more powerful and V can do nothing to really stop it, thus V knows it's coming and is powerless to stop it.

My face burned off by a *black* dragon? Maybe if I were a giant sissy.... well then I guess at that point I'd be screwed no matter what I said, so I might as well go for it.

I am gonna laugh so hard if it turns out V's kids are, themselves, high level adventurers. Even in DnD dont elves live centuries? Its possible they might have even surpassed V

I doubt that. Elves live centuries except that a seventy year old elf is the equivalent of a twelve year old, or thereabouts. On top of that V has been out fighting regularly as an adventurer for quite a while and it has already been established that he can cast high-level spells; his kids being more powerful than him seems very, very, very unlikely.

And I trust Burlew to make it more interesting than Roy/Eugene all over again.

Acid burns. 'S what the doctor calls it when you get acid on you and it damages your skin.

I deliberately put that in there in hopes that someone would nitpick it so I could lol about it.

And you did, and I am.:D

I'm just saying that if someone wants to kill me, they could at least have the respect to throw a credible threat at me. I mean a *black* dragon? Come on. I'm not asking for epics or anything; I know not everyone has access to those, but at least spring for a red or something. Otherwise I just feel like a bully afterward.

Edit: And honestly, I can't even get a decent steak off a black dragon. Do you know what consistent marination in swamp water DOES to dragon meat? It isn't pretty, let me tell you.

Go read new comic.









"Parent, do you think Other Parent will be returning home soon?"

Really? Is that really what you're going to do to us? We don't even know the gender of the children. :(

V is kinda screwed.

Mind breaks in 3...2...1...and there.

Well.

Shit.


I forsee either an extremely huge fall to the Dark Side - we're talking leaving a smoldering Hadoken-sized crater - or a (in V's mind) temporary team up with the imp to save his family.

I'll say this much; V's love interest and children are, according to the plot, perfectly capable of being very killed in the near future. I am very worried about what is about to happen because I am completely unsure which route he could take*, and that is good damn writing.


*This is, of course, in a world where you can bring back the dead. And I am still worried.

Given how much trouble they're having bringing back Roy, I wouldn't have high hopes for V's family.

Especially with that necromantic soul binding thing the dragon mentioned.

The thing about this turn of events is that it's so very "There's no way that it would actually happen and we know the dragon is going to be stopped somehow" that I'm terrified it might happen.

There's still ways to bring back people even with the soul-gem trapping.

Yet I am still worried.

You need a soul to resurrect someone.

So wait, even though the dragon concocted an overkill machination to ensure that V couldn't get his kids back, V can still probably get his kids back?

I don't want to come off as pro-kid killing, but that doesn't sound right.

I would guess that getting the souls back would involve confronting whomever is carrying them. And since the dragon went out of her way to mention that she would disappear from that plane of existence forever after doing the deed... yeah.

Poor V.

:(

That's all this comic made me feel. Which is something since I usually don't actually care much for the characters in comics...

I just can't help but think this is awfully convenient for the imp.

You just need their soul released. In the DND universe, technically, you can do it. It would be incredibly difficult but honestly just turn it into an epic quest titled Search for the Dragon after the entire OOTS stuff is done, and bam, you've got your quest.

I'm just saying that Burlew tried to lay on as thick as possible how difficult and impossible it would be to find the dragon mother, and even though there's ways in DNDiverse to go around those sort of barriers, I'm still really concerned about the kids.

The "parent / parent" thing was fucking stupid. Stupid like the Bride's name thing in Kill Bill, just fucking stupid.

Dragon does seem to have things pretty well planned out although I do have to ask: if the dragon herself has to go to such lengths to make sure V's kids can't be brought back, then what reason is there that the dragon couldn't just like, go terrorize a priest of Loki or someone into bringing her own kid back?

That would make an awesome sub-plot but I think the reason is that there's no remains to bring, and if you have no remains you need an extremely powerful cleric which it has been stated nobody knows if there are in the OOTSiverse.
I thought that at first too, but I'm pretty sure it was made that way because it is in Elven, and he was trying to communicate that there's no "mommy" or "daddy" in elven. I'm not sure if I hate it or not.

Also: I like how 'lunch' for the kids is a salad. Elves and all.

EDIT: Okay, now why are their kids dark-skinned, exactly? I was going to ask this a while ago but I forgot all about it.

Then I don't really get the point of the soul-binding business. Couldn't Ma Dragon just acidburn Elf Junior and Elf Junior #2 into nonexistence and skip all the soul-binding necro-scrolling bother? Or is she planning to have their bodies stuffed and mounted as trophies?

I think it's a matter of soul binding so that they can't even have peace in death, making their deaths that much more horrible for V. Plus, their remains will be in the dragon's belly, so I don't think they'll last long.

because although it is insanely harder to resurrect without a body its possible. This was mentioned with Roy
The only thing I could think of is that its more spite. She is a grieving mother, do you think she cares that what she is doing is ultimately far worse then what happened to her?

While with bringing them back, my guess is dragons dont have such a method. Probably because of their afterlife or that resurrection is limited to humanoids

Oh and, as for what happens with V. Honestly from a realistic standpoint this is more mind break then anything. For a parent this kind of thing would most likely just remove all desire to live then invoke futile rage. On the Imp, he cant help, he was pretty soundly defeated too and he is still anchored so he cant teleport. Besides even if they did what could they do besides suck and die

It's twofold - having your soul put into a jar forever is not fun, at all. I'm not sure if it's painful or just boring because you're essentially trapped behind a glass prison you can't escape from in the clutches of a giant Black Dragon, forever. As Haley mentioned, trapping a soul in a gem forever is very much on the Evil side of the street (though I'm not sure why specifically), and Evil acts are stated to be acts that cause undue pain and suffering on others.

So probably the trophy business, yes.

Plus it's more insurance that even if V does find a high level cleric - or Durkon levels up, natch - you still couldn't resurrect them anyway.

It's this.

TV tropes always saves the day.
Really? I just took it as more of a "fuck you we're still not giving you V's gender" thing.

Maybe it's both?

Have you ever been in true boredom. I dont mean the typical, there is nothing on, I mean to the degree you litterally have nothing to do. Completely devoid of all stimuli. Not being able to move, talk, listen, read, nothing. It is argueably the highest form of torture where you beg for pain just to have something to focus your mind on. If that goes on long enough you either blank out your mind and in essence become dead, or you are driven insane by it.

Um okay? That's more or less what I was saying, yes.