Miyamoto wants shiny new and fresh Mario and Zelda games, totally digs Portal
 

On the one hand, we could see something like a Steampunk Zelda.

On the other.... Zelda and Mario Fit. :gonk:

I don't know how Mario IIIIIN SPAAAACE! could possible be conservative, though.

You know... maybe they'll add something MORE than a coat of fresh-ish paint to the series and actually make a NEW Mario or Zelda

Hell, maybe they'll just go bananas and release a Mario X Zelda crossover Actio-RPG were you trvael with Link, mario, Luigi, Geno, Epona and Midna to save Hyrule and the Mushroom kingdon recuing Peach and Zelda

The last batlle would be Ganondorf riding a "Shadow of the Colossus" version of Bowser! while he torches down the land, and you have to climb it while fighting a butt load of enemies coming down to you untill you get tothe final showdown.

It would be awesome! HIRE ME NINTENDO!!

Damnit! I want to see that NOW! :stressed:

But it's good to hear that they are hopefully trying something little more fresh with those two franchises. They need a little more spark. I find it kinda funny that Miymato like Portal. Don't ask me why, I don't know either.

My girlfriend will be especially interested in the Zelda news though...

The spaceship was pretty conservative. Too conservative, in my opinion.

Still the best game of this generation. Also, I'm glad he's supervising Punch Out!! Wii. He mentioned a story mode? Someone stole the bike!!!

Miyamoto always adds a great touch to works, I love his ability to try new things, and I agree that some of it was limited in Galaxy and Twilight Princess. They seemed to be only marginally new, while retaining the same kind of basic structure.

When I think back on it though, both franchises have undergone severe changes over their lifetimes, and while people may ridicule Nintendo for constantly releasing new games with the same IP, they know how to keep a series interesting with revisions.

I'd like to see a simpler Zelda game that puts more emphasis on dungeons and exploring than side-quests and story, really. Imagine if they took something as simple as the original Legend of Zelda in mechanics but featured it in a rich world like Twilight Princess, and included their ever-steller new ideas for items and navigation techniques? I'm reveling in the idea.

Dude, shut up. Steampunk Zelda would rule.

And it's conservative in it's play style.

In any case, one of the things I found hilarious about the article was how it mentioned that we "know" (with linked "proof") that a new Mario and Zelda game are in development.

Newsflash, I know there's gonna be a Mario and a Zelda game in the works 10 years from now. It's not hard to predict a constant.

As long as they keep guns out of Mario's hands, he'll be just fine.

I thought there was going to be a new zelda game, where Epona was a motorcycle, and the master sword was a buster sword, and where link was cloud.

Luigi's Mansion 2: Bowser's Castle

Gadd has duped Luigi into helping Gadd with his "housecleaning" business. But when the next client is Bowser, and Luigi discovers the real objectives of Gadd's company, he'll be terrified! But he'll have to team up with Bowser to exorcise the Boo Gang living in the castle!

The motion controls of the Nintendo Wii would make a fun Luigi's Mansion game.

EDIT: I'm not worried about Moto-Epona/Cloud-Link/etc. happening. Hyrule's much more likely to be more environmentally sound, with perhaps people communing with nature.

Or a sword and transformations (aside from the suits of course) for that matter.


I have to agree that SMG was pretty "new and fresh" while still keeping the Mario feeling but Zelda does need a bit of fresh air if people are going to continue wanting more. Here's hoping they can make a good go at it without borrowing to much from other games.

...I'm seeing the cover of FF7 with "THE LEGEND OF ZELDA" stamped on the top.

I hate you so fucking much now.

I wouldn't mind a Zelda game with more of an open world and actual challenging enemies that took advantage of the Wii's inputs (possibly using a custom controller).

Goddamnit, he showed up in one game made by another company and regarded as the greatest character ever made. Because he's a life-sized doll with guns for hands that sometimes shoots lasers. Where's his characterization? I can't understand why the heck people like him so much besides the fact that, YES, HE DOES MORE DAMAGE THAN EVERYONE ELSE WITH ONE OF HIS SKILLS.

He shoots fireballs from his hands, why would he even consider getting a gun? :P

I'd like to have something like a RPG Zelda. Not Action RPG, just RPG. It'd be cool. But uh, where could the Mario franchise go to, now? I mean, SMG was Mario IN SPAAAAAACE, where could it possibly go to now?

....Subspace Emissary?

Umm, calm down a bit why don't you.

Anyway, was there not an april fools video a couple of years ago that showcased a futuristic Zelda game?

Also I would play the hell out of Steampunk Zelda

INTERDEMENSIONAL DESTRUCTION!!!----
No wait, we already got this one....

Subatomic particles are nifty and make no sense beyond a point. It'd be the greatest level theme ever if they did it justice.

Though they'd have to take a mulligan on explaining why we could see what was happening without changing what was happening.

Oh, right, and Zelda's already steampunk. Bombs, the hookshot, giant fans, oil lamps and seedy bars, a magic robot resembling those coin-eating gypsie fortune telling machines, guys with goggles and soot on their face. I mean, it could use a train or something, but it's been pretty steam punk since OoT.

I just want a Zelda game that's hard. Recent ones have been terrible. At least makes enemies do more than one heart of damage.
LttP had that and it wasn't too hard. Except for that moth thing which took me a hwile to beat first time around.

No, we want cyberpunk LoZ.

EDIT: Also, yes, make it harder.

They might pull a Zelda II and go for a zelda themed game which is much more about combat and spell mechanics and leveling up systems. That would actually be pretty cool I think. But Zelda will always be solid because of its dungeons, so I think the trick here would be employing new mechanics for dungeons. Perhaps non-linear dungeons with multiple methods of solving puzzles and progressing?

I'd definitely play that game.


As for Mario, I really don't know.

Honestly the combat mechanics that you're describing is just Fable 2 except with Link instead of "Hero."

Which I would totally play.

Geno is serious business.

Was this a hoax or?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lcvdT2...eature=related

It was a hoax.

A hoax that I still bear scars from.

Kay, from all this I almost have to take your last post seriously. In which case, if you all need to draw a direct comparison to FF7 is an over industrialized world with a shitty view and a guy with a large sword who rides a motorcycle, you have issues.

That said, I'm putting trust in Zelda team and just going to go with the flow. It's not like they've been handing out horrendous titles like other companies, just comparatively stale ideas.

FF7'ing Zelda will kill the series as it'll prove that they COMPLETELY ran out of ideas. Besides... running around with a sword in the future is silly.

And running around with a lightsaber in the future isn't?

Nah, that was a LONG LONG TIME AGO, but somehow in the future. It's different. :)

I have yet to see what evidence there was for a 'steampunk' Zelda in that story that was given? Zelda has thus far represented high fantasy more than anything else, though there are cases of like, oh, 'lost technology' and all that in the games. I wouldn't mind it being steampunkish as long as magic seems to be the powering force of the technology. You know what I mean? No electricity or anything like that. If things run on steam it has to be from burning, uhh, magic rocks that release scads of it, mined from under, uhh, Death Mountain. It's NOT coal. It's NOT! Magic rocks! :)

It wasn't somehow in the future. It was in a galaxy far, far away, where I guess they must have more advanced technology.

There has been no support for Steampunk Zelda; there was just a picture in Not Yootoobs of fanart Steampunk Zelda, and a bunch of people realized, "Man, I would play the shit out of that."

And hell, if it's steampunk, it may as well be magic-based. Steampunk stuff generally wouldn't work in real life.

Being fair, I think you could change the Zelda universe to absolutely anything and provided you have tenuous connections everyone would start chanting 'I would play the shit out of that.'

To be the fair, the central story around tLoZ is that a boy named Link is reincarnated and kicks Ganandorfs ass. It's not like there isn't room for a steampunk or even future world in that. Not like Hyrule would stay in the fantasy realm for eternity.

Actually as I think about it I'm not sure if I agree with that statement or not.

Lionheads only real problem is that they cant make a long story, so if they worked with Nintendo on a new Zelda game while putting their whole effort into it, the resulting game would be



well, actually thinking of just how awesome that game would be is too much than I can take.

Wind Waker was less high-fantasy, and moved the game from out of the dark/middle-ages to sometime around the 15th century in setting and technology.

Yes, Zelda needs to have tougher combat. Things aren't "Nintendo hard" anymore, and that's a quality I'm sad to have lost.

OR you can just do crazy self-imposed challenges. Try tackling any Zelda game without ever getting a heart piece and container.

But you see even that's not hard on Twilight Princess because nobody does even a single heart of damage. I don't even think Ganon does.

Then how about going around with a fourth of a heart? That enough?

Self-imposed restrictions aren't as fun. They can be fun, yes, but they're not as fun at all because there's always the easy way out.

Also part of an engaging game is being able to triumph over adversity.

Zelda practically plays itself. I don't see how Link is a hero in Twilight Princess when any shmuck with a sword can beat it.

I don't believe difficulty is Twilight Princess' great fall. Ocarina of Time, the most revered game in the franchise, is not really hard by any measure. TP's fault, to me, lies in its atmosphere.

A major problem I had with characters like Midna and Zant was how inconsistent they were. First of all, Midna was a pretty good character at first -very sassy and almost evil. Then her character is completely dropped after one cutscene with Zelda, who gives her life for Midna (only to reappear at the end of the game?), and Midna respects that. I understand that, but then Midna loses everything that made her unique and fun, and she became another Princess Peach (let's help everybody!). That's not character development, that's bad writing. People don't develop like that. Someone like Midna may have respected Zelda after that, but would they really lose their entire personality? How would that effect someone where they'd lose all their sassiness or odd sense of humor?

Zant's probably the worst written villain ever. You first see him where he gives a cliché villain speech to Zelda "live or die?" Then you see him again, and he's all creepy when you meet him after Lakebed. At this point, he has a distinct creepiness to him; he's actually unique and compelling now. Oops, wait, then the little cutscene at Arbiter's Grounds comes along, and Zant is back to his cliché, boring self seen in the first cutscene. Finally, you meet him in his castle near the end of the game, he has a flash back... and now he's.... insane? What?! It's like the writers had absolutely no idea what to do with him.

What Ocarina did much better than Princess was giving you a sense of urgency to save the world. TP doesn't give you a sense of danger after you collect the Master Sword. OoT constantly reminds you that Ganondorf is out there. He meets you and beats you up as a child, and his evil continues to motivate you to stop him, especially after you get the Master Sword. You childhood home, Kokiri, is now overrun by monsters, and Saria is missing. Lon Lon Ranch is taken over by Ganondorf's rule. Ganondorf locks all the Gorons in the Fire Temple to be eaten by a dragon. Zora's Domain is frozen over. Hyrule Market Town is destroyed completely. Ganondorf unleashes a monster that sets fire to Kakariko. You are constantly given new reasons to beat that next dungeon, and when you finally do get to Ganondorf for the final battle, it means something.

Not in Twilight Princess, though. Midna just says "let's get the Mirror Shards!". Then you meet Ganondorf for the first time. He doesn't know who you are, but now you are expected to fight him to the death? The two of you are complete strangers! That's not nearly as compelling as Ocarina of Time. Majora's Mask, Link's Awakening, and The Wind Waker give you more of a reason to save the world than this excuse for a Zelda game.

I severely doubt that it would ever happen, but I'd like a one-shot "realistic" Mario game. It would be a pseudo-medieval fantasy game with Mario as the knight in shining armor with Luigi as his squire. After King Bowser, Lord of the Koopa Clan, launched a surprise attack which wiped out all of the Mushroom Kingdom's monarchy save Princess Peach who was kidnapped, Mario and Luigi go on a quest to rescue her.

It won't be easy though. King Bowser has let loose his army to conquer the Mushroom Kingdom while it is weakened and he is a great and terribly powerful king who has united many of the world's beastly races. Disciplined ranks of Koopa Troopers make up the core of his army and the battalions are led by Koopa Jr. and all of King Bowser's other illegitimate children, but other creatures are in his employ. The debased and barbaric remnants of the Goomba tribe, traitors to the Mushroom Kingdom. Bloopers, a slippery and intelligent race of undersea masters. Pokeys, a hardy and dependable race of desert folk. Shy Guys, the mysterious and unknowable guardians of an ancient civilization. Bob-ombs, the stoic construct-race willing to give anything for their cause, even and especially their own lives. In addition to may other races, King Bowser's army is supplemented by the dark magics of his court magician Kamek, who creates powerful magical constructs, animates the dead and binds the capricious Boos to the service of the Koopas.

It's it's... So lovely...

I wouldn't only play that game. I would make love to it.

Um... How do I put this.

My understanding is that's practically been the logic behind how every single Mario game functions. Cept they never said so, so it was kinda implied. The ONLY difference is the Mario as a Knight thing and all that crap.

It's interesting to me that nearly all of the speculation and criticism re: Innovation in Mario and Zelda here revolves around plot and setting, and not gameplay, when I am 100% certain that Nintendo understands innovation exclusively in terms of gameplay.

As fond as I am of Wind Waker's characterization of Ganondorf, I'm pretty sure that Nintendo hasn't ever thought of plot as anything other than an excuse to make a game.

You don't think having to deal with the incomprehensibility of the subatomic world would affect gameplay? 'Cause it would, and it'd be the best game ever, or at least the best platformer ever.

They were definitely on the right track with Wind Waker, it innovated the setting by pulling it out of the cliche high fantasy, had a unique visual style (which aged beautifully), and even innovated the gaming with the admittedly unpolished sailing. Twilight Princess was such a disappointment to me, it was like anti-innovation. (UNNOVATION LOLOL)

I would play the shit out of a steampunk Zelda.

Nah... the new feature in "The legend os Zelda: the Moon Miror" will be "Now link can JUMP with a swift motion of your Nunchuk, opening exciting new levels of gameplay and exploration never seen before in the Sotry of the Legend of Zelda series!"

Seriously... they will kill your dreams, aim low folks... aim real low

^ Link could jump in all handheld versions of the game, as well as The Adventure of Link and Four Sword Adventure. Nintendo has failed to deliver low quality Zelda/Mario games EVER. Some may not have been miracles, but they beat a lot of other games.

On Midna's turn-around, I thought it was because Zelda imparted part of herself into Midna, hence why she changed.

Just wait till the k-space room wear you only move in reciprocal distances.

See? It's so awesome, I'd have to go to wikipedia to understand what you just said!
We're talking about Mario and Zelda, not Sonic.

Eh, I thought Twilight Princess was the first Zelda game to seriously bring that third dimension feel to it. That was pretty awesome.

I think a fresh new Zelda game would expand on the Sage system in Wind Waker. You would have a helper character in every dungeon, like a Zora engineer in a Hydro Dam (what? Steampunk?), or a Thief in a Prison level, or something. You'd use the Dominion Rod to fuse the helper's mind with Link to solve puzzles. Also, they'd fight, too, so you wouldn't have to protect them every five minutes.

I'd also like to see maybe a larger social system put into the game.

I agree with that last bit. Some games like Quest 64, some Zelda games, and a few others are made to feel very empty because there are only 2 or 3 cities, none of which do you spend any great length of time in. At least most final fantasy games have plenty of action going on in the cities and have some in-game social encounters involved.

Zelda just seems to improve in ways that Sonic couldn't, the same goes with Mario. The fact is, Nintendo is far more innovative then Sonic Team. Miyomoto seems to know how to appeal to the crowd that he targets. Which is why these two game franchises are so good. Let's hope he does well with the next Zelda and Mario games.

You never played Ocarina?

I agree with fleshing out cities. If you take TP, maybe expand the world a bit and threw in some large cities with heaps of sidequests and stuff to play around with, that would make me pretty happy.
And made it harder. Now that I think about it, the Cave of Ordeals in TP was pretty cool especially the lower levels where you had to fight liek 3 knights and things. So they can make fights that test skills and things. More of those, and make hits do far more damage.

I've played the shit out of Ocarina. Twilight Princess had: walking on ceilings and walls, looking at reflections in ice-floors for enemies above you, a vastly improved swimming mechanic that allowed the creation of Zora's Domain the way it should have been, and claw-swinging through ruins in the sky.

Ocarina occasionally made you aim manually.

I would argue that Twilight Princess is when the series finally achieved the true potential of all three dimensions.

No, here is what you do.

The setting? Prohibition Era. The bustling metropolis of Hyrule. Throughout the game, you read and hear all sorts of legends and stories about the Hero of Time and the King of Darkness, though they aren't considered anything more than legends by people.

As a young kid working at his uncle's bar, you are walking home, when you are confronted by a blind beggar who runs up to you panicky and not making much sense. He says you are the Hero of Time reborn and tries to give you a rusted sword, which you refuse. As you are walking away, you see some mafioso walk up to the beggar and pull him into a car.

The next morning, you wake up to your uncle arguing with some people outside, and when you look out the window, he is gunned down by the mafioso from the previous day, as well as a tan, Italian mob boss, who everyone just calls Ganon. Molotov cocktails are thrown into the window and you have to escape the burning wreckage as Ganon and his men leave. You have nothing left.

You collapse in an alleyway from exhaustion, and when you wake, a little light is floating next to you. The ghost of your uncle. He tells you he is not really your uncle, that he found you, and that the tattoo on your hand, the one of three golden triangles, has been there ever since he found you.

The rest writes itself, though I have yet to come up with an adequate roll for Zelda. You largely get the items from the other Zelda games, with maybe a few exceptions, but you find the items that belonged to previous Heroes of Time in ruins beneath the city.

It's either horrible or awesome. Or both!

Look, here's how you shake up the plot of a Zelda game.

There is no Zelda.

Let me say that again.

There is no Zelda.

You introduce the United Hylian Republic to the canon. At some point, there was a revolution, and the Royal Family died out. There are Anastasian rumors concerning a branch of the royal family tree descended from Zelda, but nobody knows for sure.

It's a legend of Zelda. Got it?

The crime boss in NonCon's pitch just calls himself Ganon. The real Ganon may be coming back through him, but he's not Ganon. Just some punk like Aghanim or Zant who thought they could summon the great evil and keep it contained.

The game will imply that the gun moll who betrays Ganon is part of the royal bloodline, but nothing is explicitly said.

Or maybe they could pick up were Twilight dropped off, and now we could have QUEEN Zelda and her personal Knight Link...

You know... less mario on the Zelda plots

Y'know, I'm thinking that something as radical as the ideas presented here isn't going to cut it. No offense, guys.

What I'm thinking is that they should just stop with this "Ganon the King of Eeeeviiiiil" stuff. As much as I love G-Man, he needs a break. Hyrule's a big kingdom even if it doesn't feel like it, and there's plenty of room for more villains. In fact, if Zelda's going to be in the game and be important they should give her a break from her otherwise daily routine of being kidnapped or imprisoned, too. Of course what this means is that the writers can no longer rely on G-Man breaking his seal and wreaking havoc/Zelda doing something dumb, so ideally we'll get a plot/story that's fresh, creative, and interesting.

Then there's the overworld: I'm sick of the "big space with a solid rock wall or a big long cliff/pit around it" stuff that we've been getting in the 3D games since OoT. I don't see why we can't have an overworld that's at least somewhat seamless. If it's supposed to be an actual geographical feature (fun fact: That canyon in the Eldin region? It empties into Lake Hylia) then sure, but I should still be able to get over to the other side.

Tying into that: Hyrule is a big place, Nintendo! Remember Zelda II? It took place in Hyrule but the landscape was completely different than LoZ's? It's because there's a North Hyrule. So Hyrule is BIG and it should BE BIG. I can't be any more blunt about that, I swear. A place doesn't have to have important to the plot so long as it makes the world feel less empty and more alive.

And finally, one thing I liked about Majora's Mask that they don't seem to have touched since then: characters actually "doing" things. They don't need things like Oblivion's Radiant Ai bullcrap or some random scripts that tell them to eat/sleep/drink/stroke the player's ego. All they need for me is a schedule that they'll follow.

Prohibition? How about a cyberpunk LoZ game instead? I know some might be against it, but it could be viable if done properly.

I want puzzles that force you to move in a 4th spatial dimension. Maybe even a few involving a Klein bottle. A few hypercubes that are really spheres maybe a sort of pong like mini game where you're bouncing around in a 4 dimensional space and have to find your way out. That would be some really kickass gameplay. Hell I'd even go so far as to render the entire world as a 3D projection of a 4 dimensional space and then have a Paper Mario type way of performing a rotation in the 4th dimension. That's a game I would play.

They could just make an RPG like overworld shaped like a klein bottle instead of a donut. Would that work for you?

Pfft as I said earlier, it's k-space or nothing.

K-space can totally be 4 dimensional though personally phase space would be so much more interesting. Lets see you navigate through a world where the structures are simply the possible states that the game could exist in and the various barriers between them. You could have one axis be number of npcs talked to, another for enemies defeated, 3 for space, one for time played, another for what time it is in the game, and one final one for puzzles solved. That's and 8 dimensional space and less than half of them are actually conventional distances. Heck you could even represent the 3 space axis as the reciprocals of your distance from the starting area. Now that's a game.

now show us how you would sell it to the Wiifit crowd...

because, y'know... 1 million sales is a big fucking number

I would play the shit out of a cyberpunk LoZ game. I think I said so earlier, but yeah. The reason I think the game should have Ganon, is because the Zelda games are about the eternal struggle between Ganon and Link. Ganon may be sealed away or die, but he'll be reborn and let loose. And whenever he is a threat to the world, the world "creates" a Hero of Time. You may say, that they need to do something new with that and change it, but the focus of these games is the struggle between these two forces and the power of the Triforce. I think you can be plenty creative with this as a base idea, but I'd say Nintendo is either not interested in being that creative, or too worried about fan outrage.

They could pull a Two Thrones and have the Hero spirit and Ganon fighting it out over one poor bastard's body.

Only if in Ganon mode you have access to Warlock PAAAAUNCH, a la Brawl.

The ideas sound fitting for the new Link game. I wouldn't mind another mario rpg for the wii though.

Eight Million (numbers on the right are worldwide Life-to-Date numbers. 1 unit = 10k): http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=117