The Warring States of NPF

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-   -   Coldplay (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?t=32576)

guyy 12-28-2008 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Kitty (Post 878249)
I like Viva la Vida but then I hear they are getting sued over it because they plagiarized the melody from Joe Satriani.

...Allegedly. I mean, the songs are similar for a whole 3 notes/chords in a row and otherwise completely different. And the lawsuit popped up right after the song got nominated for lots of Grammies...what a coincidence. I can't understand how this claim made it all the way to a lawsuit.

I don't really get why so many people think they're boring, but that sort of thing is pretty subjective.

Marelo 12-28-2008 03:36 PM

Honestly, just about any song can be shown to be "plagiarized" from an earlier song in the same manner that Viva la Vida is from Satriani's song.

TheSparrow 12-28-2008 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guyy (Post 878310)
...Allegedly. I mean, the songs are similar for a whole 3 notes/chords in a row and otherwise completely different. And the lawsuit popped up right after the song got nominated for lots of Grammies...what a coincidence. I can't understand how this claim made it all the way to a lawsuit.

I don't really get why so many people think they're boring, but that sort of thing is pretty subjective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEGGFJLpbu4&NR=1

That breaks it down pretty well...

and from the creator of that video

Quote:

Don't forget - the court will be viewing Coldplay as innocent when the trial starts. Maybe Coldplay didn't do it on purpose?

Satriani will more than likely face tough challenges to win his case. The 2008 Coldplay song released to the public is certainly quite a match to Satriani's piece. However, a court trial for music plagiarism is extremely complex...

Think about this... in 1997, The Rolling Stones were informed, (at a pre-launch party by Keith Richard's son nonetheless), that they had unintentionally copied KD Lang's 1992 song, "Constant Craving," with their tune, "Anybody Seen My Baby." Before the CD hit stores, The Rolling Stones immediately contacted Lang and worked out a retroactive song credit. K.D. Lang agreed on song publishing royalties with the Stones - since the songs were quite obviously sharing obvious primary elements of musical composition They were lucky - it was caught early on!


ON THE STREETS:
Ouside of court, this argument/lawsuit will probably all boil down to who you are a fan of. I would expect Coldplay fans might not think that the songs are too similar. And Satriani fans, (being made up of primarily guitarists & musicians), are going to be fairly pissed off that the tempo, meter, chorus melody and the bulk of the chord changes of the Coldplay song are pretty much exactly the same as the chorus of a Satriani tune composed three years ago. Guitar players stand behind their fellow axe slingers till death, "You can have my guitar when you pry my cold dead fingers off of it."

Don't get mad at me if this video upsets you. (Coldplay fans) I've not made any 100% decisions that Coldplay copied anybody, (looks like a judge will decide that). I am only putting a few of the pieces of the music theory associated to these songs out there for people to talk about, think about, and hopefully understand the overall situation a little better.

guyy 12-29-2008 03:39 AM

Well, considering that:
- The songs are only similar in certain parts, and otherwise completely different
- The chorus from Satriani's song (guitar) is similar to some of the verses from Coldplay's song (vocal); no part of it was obviously directly copied

and:
- There are an absurd number of songs out there, and almost as many people with a mysterious grudge against Coldplay
- There are surprisingly few ways to arrange notes in a sequence that doesn't sound horrible (and if you don't believe me, a quick Google found this...about 35 seconds in there's a guitar solo amazingly similar to Satriani's. But he didn't copy them; he just had the same relatively simple idea.)

...it really seems more likely that Coldplay and Satriani just had similar ideas independently. I mean, heck, the last time Coldplay used someone else's chord progression (for "Talk"), they got permission and gave writing credits and everything. Most bands would just wing it and hope no one noticed.

Besides, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Ryong 12-29-2008 11:29 AM

I like most of their songs, but, yeah, some of them are boring. Not extremely boring ( like Snow Patrol* ) but still a bit. Glass of Water is pretty good, btw.

*= I try to like Snow Patrol, but I just can't. Their songs seem to never actually change from the initial part. I expect songs to have different parts, usually having the chorus being a bit faster than the start, Snow Patrol fails to do it everywhere but in Open Your Eyes, and even then, the fast part repeats for too long.

Mondt 12-29-2008 10:45 PM

Quote:

- The chorus from Satriani's song (guitar) is similar to some of the verses from Coldplay's song (vocal); no part of it was obviously directly copied
Don't you mean exactly the same except for the fills that Satriani has inbetween the accented notes?'

Edit:
Quote:

Besides, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Flattery > Copyright law. Obviously.

Mike McC 12-29-2008 11:08 PM

And Mondt displays what TheSparrow was talking about. Good show!

Krylo 12-29-2008 11:16 PM

I'd just like to point out that sampling music from others used to be common practice in music, and actually created multiple entire genres and subcultures of music.

So in so much as, you know, fuck Coldplay, I hope they win this one. I'd really like to see sampling parts (and especially merely replaying the same notes with the same, or even different, instruments) of songs like that to be unregulated by copyright law.

Archbio 12-29-2008 11:47 PM

Quote:

I'd just like to point out that sampling music from others used to be common practice in music, and actually created multiple entire genres and subcultures of music.
It also created Ice Ice Baby, so the blade cuts both ways.

guyy 12-30-2008 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mondt (Post 878830)
Don't you mean exactly the same except for the fills that Satriani has inbetween the accented notes?'

No, I mean that plus all the sections of both songs that no one is talking about (choruses of Coldplay song plus most of the song after the first chorus, second 75% of Satriani's song), which are not similar in the slightest. The parts of both songs that are similar are not only very simple, but as I already pointed out, have been done before Satriani or Coldplay used them.

Edit: And no, of course they aren't "exactly the same"; the songs use a lot of the same notes in some areas, but also a lot of different notes in the same areas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike McC (Post 878839)
And Mondt displays what TheSparrow was talking about.

Redundant, pointless antagonism? None of us are judging this case. I'm just trying to hold off the probably inevitable hate-fest.

By the way, Beethoven copied an 8-note sequence directly from a piece by Mozart for part of his 5th symphony; but interestingly enough, no one hates him for it.


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